Author Topic: Feeling worse  (Read 3396 times)

Izzy_*now*

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Re: Feeling worse
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2008, 04:04:19 PM »
oh LilyCat,

I don't know what to say.

There are parts of your life that appear to be identical to mine, but others are not. I expect this can happen to any two people.

Your life seems to have been hit from all sides, so that is why I am speechless about what you must have endured. I can also be speechless because I often don't know the right thing to say, especially if it hits too close to home for me.

The voicelessness, I now know, was an issue all my life. The lack of'caring' I must have felt freom my parents to grow up not really knowing them, not able to go to them with my problems, not about to converse with them at all about anything important, and now I can remember one or two conversations ever with my mother, maybe one or two with my father, so I too had very much difficulty in ever feeling love 'coming in' to me.

I've had my experiences with men and had a child. Her father and I were, what appeared to be, so compatible from the first. We dated well over 2 years, lots of kissing ang hugging and sex, but he was my only real relationship until his drinkiing escalated to an unbearable point and I left with our daughter. He killed himself 7 years after the last time she and I saw him.

I try to remember where my voice must have failed me with him. I cannot, if it did fail me.

My voicelessness hurt me more from not being an assertive person, standing up for myself, because I never knew my entitlements. I had no boundaries so I was spread pretty thin, was quite adapatable in life and managed to survive in spite of some horrible experiences.

Survive due to the fact that I am now 69, and on the downhill road, am not expecting, not hoping, to meet a special man, I work alone at home for non-for=profit organizations, website building and accounting, I read, watch movies, come here to chat with nice people, and try not to get caught up with the not so nice people, and am content

Content is pretty mild in comparison to deleriously happy, but I see that for the younger folk.

I wish I knew what to say other than I commiserate with you and your pain. What can I do? say? Just ask

All the Best
Izzy
« Last Edit: June 27, 2008, 04:07:55 PM by Izzy_*now* »
"The joy of love lasts such a short time, but the pain of love lasts one's whole life"

Certain Hope

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Re: Feeling worse
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2008, 04:38:48 PM »
(((((((Lily))))))))

Like Izzy, I don't know what to say, either.

Just so you know, I'm aware that I am - for lack of a better term - an underachiever.
Don't mean to degrade or belittle myself in saying that - I've raised and still am raising a family and faced alot of dragons - but often feel that I could be - and should be  :? -  doing alot more. Just never have been very ambitious in that way, but at this point I'd sure like to stir up a little more ambition and positive goal-setting  than what's been active in the past.

Other than that, just wanted you to know that I'm hearing you, too... listening... and you are not alone.

With much love,
Carolyn

(((((((((Lily)))))))))

and

((((((((Izzy)))))))))

P.S.  on edit... will be reading again, later... and thinking in the meanwhile... just don't want to spiel out a load of stuff that might only get in your way. oxo
And I ditto what Amber wrote:   
Quote
   ... I think you're important enough and strong enough for this kind of journey! 

It's only been so very recently that I've begun to think that way about myself, dear Lily. Can't walk ahead of you, but I  would be pleased to walk alongside.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2008, 05:14:03 PM by Certain Hope »

sKePTiKal

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Re: Feeling worse
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2008, 04:56:11 PM »
Quote
I'm so frustrated with being that person who is asked a question and can only come up with blankness. Someone asks me a question, particularly my therapist, especially what I want, and I just come up blank. I can't come up with any answers. I do think that if I could, I could make it happen. But I just can't find what I want, no matter what the area of life.

LilyCat... sweet kitty...

I can so relate to this place you described - not knowing what I want. For me, it was because I didn't feel like I was important enough to HAVE wants, ya know? Like I didn't matter... and I'd heard NO so many times, in so many ways, at some point I told myself it wasn't even worth thinking I could want something.

My path through & out of that - was through my inner child. The one you've described feeling as "developmentally arrested". You sort of need to get to know her. Before the wants faded away into hopelessness, you know? Parenting her, starts with simply caring for her - understanding her feelings... and they will not be the feelings of a 54 yr old...and they might surprise you with how vivid and strong they are. Not all of the feelings will be pleasant (this is a huge understatement). Some of the feelings WILL be, though - it's not all doom & gloom. But the way out, the path to the "real you" is through becoming this inner little girl's best friend. Big sister. Mom.

Love to you... I think you're important enough and strong enough for this kind of journey! 
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Juno

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Re: Feeling worse
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2008, 05:19:49 PM »
LilyCat,

I have read your whole post and many, many parts of it resonate with me.  I wonder about something, though.  If I'm understanding correctly, did you say you have been with the same therapist for twenty years?  If so.... it seems to me it is not working any more.  He has brought you so far and that's it.  It seems like you could be ready for some breakthroughs.  Maybe someone different or something different would do the trick.  It does take a long time to heal from what we've been through.  But it seems like there should be more breakthroughs after twenty years.  That's just my take on it.  I know these things can't be rushed.  But if it were me, I'd be very frustrated by now.

Juno

teartracks

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Re: Feeling worse
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2008, 05:27:46 PM »




Hi PR,

the way out, the path to the "real you" is through becoming this inner little girl's best friend. Big sister. Mom.

Yes, yes, and yes!

tt




LilyCat

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Re: Feeling worse
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2008, 05:28:57 PM »
Thank you all. You are true friends. TRUE friends!

Izzy, you said the right thing. The exactly right thing. Your warm and gentle heart came through, and it reached me. Like you, I never could go to my parents for support or with a problem. I never had a "real" conversation with them. They were never emotionally there for me.

I am so sorry about your ex-husband. I didn't know that. It must have been just devastating. I have a friend at church who is a wonderful, highly intelligent, really capable and competent and nice person. When she first came to the church she was married to someone. They got divorced; a few years later he killed himself. It was quite awhile ago but I often think of this part of her life. I'm sure she couldn't have been part of the reason; it had to be his own internal demons. I'm sure the same is true for you. It's never because of another person. It's because of anger turned inward. Soley because of that. I am so sorry. Like you haven't had enough to carry around.

Also, it just felt good to hear from someone a little older. Thank you. We do sound like we have a lot in common. I get the whole voicelessness/not standing up for yourself thing. I really do.


Carolyn, you are always such a good and loyal and caring friend, and you always have this special lightness to what you have to say. It just shines through. Just you saying hi is all I ever need.

Phoenix, thank you too. You detailed exactly what I want/seek to do, but I just can't seem to find the entranceway into that. I am sure there would be lots of powerful emotions if I could just get in there. That's my frustration. I'm not afraid to go there, I just can't seem to find the roadmap.

I do know about not being important enough to have wants. It's the big message from my parents: you don't count. They threw me under the bus for themselves, my sister, and at times but in radically different ways, for my brother (not so much for him, except after he got hurt.)

So, thank you all. You are dear to my heart, very dear.

One of the frustrations that I didn't talk about is that I read here and on the other board, and/or I see people in real life -- but mostly on these boards -- and it seems like everyone else is able to just get down and dirty and be human and say things to the people who post, and I feel such an inability to do that. I feel better able to do it here, because this board has a different culture/atmosphere (despite the conflicts) ... but I especially feel it on the other board. People have been very supportive, but when I try to reply back, I just don't feel like am able to do it as well as they. Maybe it's because they were all much more involved with their Ns -- spent a lot of time with them, were married to them, really got to see their real selves -- but I suspect that if they'd never been involved with an N, I'd still feel this difference.

And can I say, I just really miss the N. Part of this, I know, is mourning him. It's not just mourning this wonderful person I fell in love with. It's much deeper than that. He was my friend for 10 years, during which he was only really good to me. He was a very vital source of strength and support and friendship to me. I didn't have to talk to him so much, never went to him for counseling; it was just that he represented strength to me, and just his friendly self always did so much to get me from week to week. I don't have that this time, just when I most need it. I really miss him. (Yes, I know it's the fake him. But he sure seemed real. It's uncanny. I can't believe how these people who are total fakes are much more believable than the typical person we/I cast as phoney. They're easy to see through!)

Anyway, thank you so much to you all. I don't know if I'll get to a computer, so if I don't, everyone have a good weekend! I believe I will be able to catch up on laundry in air-conditioned coolness, now that the plumbing and A/c issues are fixed. Sounds exciting, doesn't it?

Hugs and kisses to you all.

Love,

Lily

LilyCat

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Re: Feeling worse
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2008, 05:33:16 PM »
Juno -- just real fast, before I go home.

I know, I think of this from time to time and I do wonder. It's good for me to stay. Can't explain now, will just say that I've done an enormous amount of work and he's always there. He really is an excellent therapist. Some of this is because I haven't been doing individual for 5 years. It's much harder in group; that's a very different experience.

I am going to see a pastoral counselor, initially for the spiritual aspects of what the N did to me; but she's also a well qualified psyche counselor. She has very good credentials and her work lies in where the tradiitional psych stuff meets the spiritual, within the individual. I'm really looking forward to meeting with her. I think she will provide some much-needed new perspective.

Thank you, so much. I really appreciate your post.

Certain Hope

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Re: Feeling worse
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2008, 05:41:57 PM »
aww ((((Lily)))) have a restful weekend, please. And I hope that some genuine FUN will come your way.

Does Fester juggle?

Much love... see you Monday,
Carolyn

Juno

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Re: Feeling worse
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2008, 06:05:39 PM »
For when you are back on Monday--I understand better now about the length of time you have spent with your therapist.  It makes sense to me now.  I had forgotten that you can't see him individually very often.

I also didn't realize you had been close to your pastor for ten years.  That is a long time and a big part of your life.  It hasn't been so very long that you have had to grieve about this loss.  I have had relationships where I have missed them for longer than I have had them!

I hope the new counselor you will be seeing does make the difference that you need.  It will be interesting to see your growth as it occurs.

Juno

LilyCat

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Re: Feeling worse
« Reply #24 on: June 30, 2008, 10:39:44 AM »
Carolyn,

Does he juggle. How funny is that??? I was actually thinking of you (many times over the w/e, actually) last night. Fester had been out peacefully snoozing or laying around or just watching on the stoop aaaaaaaalllll afternoon like a good boy.

But he likes to talk a little walk right around dusk.

I went down twice to see if he was back, and he wasn't. I wanted to go to bed!

Last time I went down, I called ... and there came Fester, trotting across the road, then really trotting through the grass to get to the door. he was just so sweet and yet highly dignified. Made me think of you and Sammy.

No kittens yet. Karen said she took the cat to a vet tech over w/e, and she's only about halfway through her term, so it will be a few weeks yet. Not as exciting, but it's good because it means she will get good care and nutrition for at least half her pregnancy.

Juno, thank you so much. I haven't read or posted with you much, but you are sounding more and more like a highly thoughtful and sensitive person each time I hear from you.

I want you to know that whether I should continue with my current T was the main topic of thought over the w/e. I still don't have an answer. He's always been so reliable, and I've seen him work with other people in group over the years, so I see how well they do/have done. He's stood by me so well for so long, and I know he really knows his stuff. ...but there is that voice inside me that at this point wonders if I've really wasted a lot of time. Not that we've wasted any time in therapy, but ... I don't know. Hard to explain.

That was one of the parts of Dr. G's essay that spoke to me -- where he talks about the work being analagous to "the big dig." It took away my concern that perhaps I was nuts for being in therapy for so long.

Anyway, I don't have a conclusion but I am thinking about it. I haven't heard back from the new counselor in several days, so I'm not sure what that means. I'm attributing it to being summer. Will give her a nudge if I don't hear from her today.

Also, thank you for understanding about the longstanding friendship. He really was very, very dear to me. I just loved him. I always felt so happy when around him, and he was a great intellectual stimulus/companion. My therapist always said that when the relationship is right, it's easy ... and it was always, always so easy with him. It just always worked (until things changed). That was one of the main attractions to him. It was easy.

That, and we just always had so much fun. The fun thing was really the kicker. that was probably the main quality. He had the best sense of humor and we always laughed.

-- as an aside -- one of the funny moments was in choir one night when he said that we "weren't worthy" of the women's assocation. If you knew them you'd laugh, too!

Obviously I'm missing him a lot right now. I guess I'm going through the mourning process. But I miss my friend! He was always so special to me. I was deeply, deeply fond of him for years ... it's really hard to dismiss that person I knew, since I had such limited contact with the real N him. In fact, I only ever really saw the whole shebang once. (The grandiose part and the 4-year-old personality, nothing mean.) I'm glad I did, because I'd never be able to put this together if I hadn't. Pretty much, the friend I knew for 10 years is what I remember. It's hard to keep the N reality in front of me.

Anyway, thanks so much, everyone. Missed you over the w/e!

Certain Hope

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Re: Feeling worse
« Reply #25 on: June 30, 2008, 11:06:43 AM »
((((((((Lily)))))))) I was thinking of you, too :)

Glad to know that the kitties aren't in danger and the mama is getting good care!

And I can see as clear as a bell... Uncle Fester fast-trotting through the grass to your door - probably trying not to get too much dew on his li'l  furry tootsies!

I'll not be on much for awhile, Lily... stuff needs tending here at home... but please know that you are always in my thoughts and prayers.

Love,
Carolyn


LilyCat

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Re: Feeling worse
« Reply #26 on: June 30, 2008, 12:19:39 PM »
Thanks, Carolyn. Not sure how long you mean, but whether it's an hour or a week, be well! Thinking of you "certainly"!