Independence Day

[Overcomer]

Today is July 4th and what we, here in the United States, call Independence Day. 

Recently I was on the East Coast and saw a sign for Valley Forge.  When I got home I did some research on our History.

It seems when we settled here in the US, the people of Great Britain didn't like it and sent troops over to get us.  Thus the war and then our Declaration.

Now I realize that especially in Arab nations, they simply hate us here.

My forefathers came from England and Scotland and Germany and Ireland.  My brother is half Native American.  The Native Americans are the only "real" Americans.

The US is full of Asians and Italians and Danish and English and Scottish and Hispanics.  The blacks were originally brought here as slaves but are now free and citizens.  We are a melting pot plain and simple.

We are in a war we hate and have been in wars we hated before.

The Iranians think we are the Big Satan.  Israel is the little Satan......

Oh well, I wonder why so many hate us????

[ann3]

It seems when we settled here in the US, the people of Great Britain didn't like it and sent troops over to get us.  Thus the war and then our Declaration.

Now I realize that especially in Arab nations, they simply hate us here.

My forefathers came from England and Scotland and Germany and Ireland.  My brother is half Native American.  The Native Americans are the only "real" Americans.

We are in a war we hate and have been in wars we hated before.

The Iranians think we are the Big Satan.  Israel is the little Satan......

Oh well, I wonder why so many hate us????

Kelly,

I think you are a nice person and I enjoy reading your posts.  You may be angry with me for what I'm about to write, but I think your jumps in logic and in fact are misplaced.  Some of what you say is true, but some is very inaccurate. I don't mean to give a history lesson or criticize you.  I'm sorry if I have hurt your feelings.

ann

[teartracks]

The Star Spangled Banner
By Francis Scott Key



Oh, say can you see by the dawn's early light
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars thru the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched were so gallantly streaming?
And the rocket's red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there.
Oh, say does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?


On the shore, dimly seen through the mists of the deep,
Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
In full glory reflected now shines in the stream:
'Tis the star-spangled banner!  Oh long may it wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!


And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country should leave us no more!
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!


Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved home and the war's desolation!
Blest with victory and peace, may the heav'n rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto:  "In God is our trust."
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!
 Thanks OC for the reminder.

tt

[Izzy_*now*]

Awwwwwwww OC

Happy Independence Day!

Has there been a time in Modern History whereby there has never been a war?

My parents were born in 1908-9 and WWI followed in 1914

The stockmarket crashed.

I was born in 1939, made Hitler mad and WWII broke out.

I remember someone saying that_______________________(whatever the reasion, we always need a war and that reason is a sign.

After that was the Korean War, then the Vietnamese War

The Leaders of the countries are power hungry and wars take place for no reason. Can you picture them all as Narcissits? I can.
I think America is thought of as the richest, most powerful nation, but what about the jobless, the homeless, the racism I expect still exists, and multiple other reasons.....but I am only guessing.

One President says the budget is balanced and another doesn't agree??  Scandals have taken place over the years. If a president can lie about that, he could lie about anything.

Canada had a scandal and I cannot remember the names involved, except for Trudeau, when PM, either had an affair or his wife did, then another about a PM or High Cabinet member involved with Christine Keeler. Now why would I remember that name? Oh that was an English scandal--- well there are more!--but we were once a member of the British Empire.

Too many immigrants are allowed for the country to tell the terrorists from the good people.
Same with Canada.

I really don't know about history and why people want to head up a whole country but we have 12 Provinces and 2 have a balanced budget: Alberta and British Columbia. We have a lot of land to the North that is uninhabited.  I wish it could be opened up. i worked in that area, MUSKEG. Guys and equipment would suddenly drop off solid land and be up to their ___ in muskeg. How could one build a house?

All of America is opened up, right?

I don't hate USA. I love Canada. I think we have a good reputation!

My ancestors came from British Isles, Germany, Holland, and came to USA as well as Canada. I have an ancestor who was in West Point with Custer. He actually fought on both sides in the Civil War. then moved West to work on the railway which led him into Canada.

Who, tell me, has all the OIL?  and who wants it most?????

This post is me only and except for my ancestors I think I am saying what I heard but it might not at all be true.

Izzy

[Overcomer]

I know I do not have all facts right-I was really on a ramble.  I just feel bad that so many in the world have us when in reality we are made up from people all over the world.  I am not doing fireworks or anything like that.  Just swam earlier and watched my h get drunk.

[Izzy_*now*]

Well OC

Why is history important when we have our own damaged selves to deal with?

 Let the politicians go crazy. We will be sane!
xx
Iz

[Overcomer]

Yeah we do have our issues!  But I cannot help but worry that some terrorist is going to fly a plane into a building or nuke us or something like that.  I agree our country is out of control in a lot of ways and it is sad.

[Overcomer]

Hey Ann:  I would like to know what facts I had wrong.  I mean, I was rambling but I am open for correction....

[ann3]

Hi Kelly,

I should not have highlighted the parts where you spoke about your heritage, sorry.  I felt the other quotes were inaccurate or could have used further explanation.

I felt the first quote was inaccurate because to me, it sounded like we (the Americans) came here and threw out the British.  To me, this is inaccurate because the US began as British colonies, so we were possessions of Britain and in fact were British.

What really set off the Revolution was taxation without representation, as demonstrated by the Boston Tea Party:  Britain taxed the colonists, but the colonists had no representatives in the British Parliament in London.  That’s like treating an adult like a child:  Being told what to do, but having no say.  Now that I think about it, it’s kind of like being under the control of an N:  being told what to do, but having no voice to protest or being punished if you do protest the unfairness.  Eventually, the colonists no longer accepted being told what to do by Britain and the revolution ensued.

Regarding the other quotes about “why do they hate us” and ‘big satan/little satan”, it bothered me to connect the hate & satan quotes with the quote about the origins of the USA.  To me, they are not connected.

IMO, and the opinions of some scholars & pundits, to understand the Mid-East today, we need to look at and understand the map of the Mid-East pre & post World War I (WWI).  Prior to WWI, the Ottoman Empire ruled the Mid-East and countries such as Iraq, Jordan and others did not exist (see maps of 1920 & 1880: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/globalconnections/mideast/maps/pol.html).  After WWI, the British & French created new borders and to a large extent, much of the tension in the Mid East today is due to the borders created after WWI. 

Sorry to meander, but history is important for understanding today.  IMO, essentially, why they ‘hate’ us is due to a culture clash between East & West (ideas of a nation-state, democracy, free speech, division of church & state), the imposition of post-WWI borders, oil (discovered in Saudi Arabia the 1930s) & the now defunct Cold War, since Cold War politics were played out via proxy Mid-East nations.  I’d add to this list the US notion/predicament of whether we should try to spread democracy throughout the world or whether we should not interfere with dictators.  Sorry to get so technical, but IMO, it's not simple black & white.

Love,
ann

[Leah]

Thank you, Ann, very much appreciated.

If I may, I would like to add: 

November 2, 1917 -  The Balfour Declaration  http://www.cfi-usa.org/resources.html

May 14, 1948,  http://www.israel.org/MFA/Peace%20Process/Guide%20to%20the%20Peace%20Process/Declaration%20of%20Establishment%20of%20State%20of%20Israel



Personally, I recommend the DVD  "The Forsaken Promise"   

https://www.cfi.org.uk/shop/productinfo.php?product=431


Love, Leah

[Overcomer]

Wow!  You are both very smart. unfortunately I did not listen much in World History and American history.  They fired my HISTORY teacher for incompetence.  Very interesting stuff.  When I watched the Patriot it was a gut wretching movie to watch.

[ann3]

Leah,
Thank you and you've made very good additions to the list.  Hope I did not insult you re: my colonialist views!!  The US is blessed to have British roots:  the Magna Carter, the common law, and British Comedy!!!!

Kelly,
May I suggest renting the movie "Lawrence of Arabia"?  It is a long film, but it's beautiful and Peter O'Toole is really cute; also, it won 7 Oscars (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056172/).  It will give you an idea of the Mid East around the time of WWI.

love to you both,
ann

[gjazz]

One of the most interesting questions posed here, by Ann, is what action if any nations such as ours should take against a tyrant in another sovereign country.  That we have tended to act when it served a self-interest (territory, a safe base in an unsafe part of the world, oil) and not act when there was little for us to gain in the short run, doesn't answer the question of what is right. 

[Leah]

(((((( Ann ))))))

Thank you   

Love,

Leah

[gratitude28]

gjazz,
So, it is OK to send in our men and women to correct a wrong in a country where we have no interest, but it is bad to do it in a country where we do have an interest? I have never understood this argument.
Love, Beth