Author Topic: Study on BPD Sufferers & Cooperation (or lack of it)  (Read 8140 times)

miss piggy

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Re: Study on BPD Sufferers & Cooperation (or lack of it)
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2008, 01:15:07 PM »

I think I've reached a point of relative rest and safety.  This is a purposed decision because trying to enjoy the rest and safety have became more important than spending my few remaining years analyzing.  That's just me. 

Brilliant!  I love this thought and will try to remember it for myself.  My SIL is BPD and I suspect my dad is as well, I know he is a capital N.

miss piggy

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Re: Study on BPD Sufferers & Cooperation (or lack of it)
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2008, 01:20:52 PM »
Hello Dandylife and all,

The idea of looking at BPD and cooperation is very timely for my family's situation.  I don't have any opinions about the actual study (I'll let you all hash that out).  But the piece of my parents' adventure in senior marriage is the lack of my dad's cooperation with whatever he is told to do in order to stay healthy.  All of his decisions are based on what will net him the most attention while keeping him out of the nursing home.  He is playing a dangerous game because he is creating medical crises that could be avoided if he cooperated with PT.  He sees no value in cooperating. 

I offer this as another case study in BPD/N and cooperation...  8)

cheers, MP

Ami

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Re: Study on BPD Sufferers & Cooperation (or lack of it)
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2008, 01:56:12 PM »
 The pain of my childhood is lodged inside my body,now. I can run away or face it. I want to face it and live free from illusions , as much as  is possible.
 That is my goal and for that I must face what I have pushed down (repressed). It hurts terribly, but running on it unconsciously hurts terribly, too, so I chose the former.               Ami                                   
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

teartracks

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Re: Study on BPD Sufferers & Cooperation (or lack of it)
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2008, 04:06:30 PM »


Hi,

I thought I should add that I believe, narcissism with all it's siblings was the arena into which I was born.  I am struck by the similarity of the fallout between narcissism and BPD. 

tt


James

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Re: Study on BPD Sufferers & Cooperation (or lack of it)
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2008, 05:08:22 PM »
Dandylife......For me, it was a positive thing in that their conclusions support my experience - which is that BPD causes irrational thinking and makes a relationship with a BPD sufferer almost impossible. I can understand that these conclusions possibly might offer you comfort and peace of mind especially if you had any questions if it was something you were doing or them. BPD is not the cause but BPD is a clinical model used to describe clusters of symptoms resulting from severe but now repressed abuse. These researchers make no mention of this. Why? The sufferer continues to act out in the present to old repressed unconscious traumas. The unconscious state is triggered by real time stimuli and he reacts to these situations, depending on the repression, as if it were real, like it was back then. It's not and this confuses observers and even the sufferer. Because the trauma and associated emotions are repressed he can't understand that he is reacting in the past, like it was, rather than his actions being "unreal" in regard to reality at the moment. If we look at this his reactions then become easy to explain but the ABUSE has to be acknowledged for this to be understood. Why do these researchers avoid the issue of abuse? I think b/c they are in repression too and are absolutely terrified of feeling once again what happened to them. They soothe their own fears by this type denial in their own research. Treatments can be developed if the truth is known. Not trusting may have been very appropriate in a dangerous childhood but unless this person is aware of being abused he continues to act and feel like there is still a real danger. Unconscious trauma just doesn't go away, at least until it's consciously felt and integrated, otherwise it's always being acted out in the present with no real solution.

"They conclude that people with borderline personality disorder either have a distorted sense of generally accepted social norms, or that they may not sense these norms at all. This may lead them to behave in a way that disrupts trust and cooperation with others. By not responding in a way that would repair the relationship, people with borderline personality disorder also impair the ability of others to cooperate with them."IMO we hardly need a "research study" to see this. This scientific study to come up with that? What is needed is to address the effects of childhood abuse and the distortions this later creates head on. What I also see here is a tendency for these researchers to blame the victim which serves to maintain their "power" which helps maintain their denial of their own abuse. I do believe most people, to varying degrees, have been abused in childhood and much of this is repressed. IMO their language/thoughts here may also be indicative of an unconscious display of their own latent hatred, scapegoating a victim,  resulting from repressed emotions in themselves. Otherwise they would respond with empathy rather than blame disguised as well intentioned and "honest" research but only if they know their own truth.

TT....I am glad you have come to a conscious decision abt how much you want to uncover in your life. If you feel good now perhaps this is enough. You are exactly right analysing this will not solve anything but it may point us in the right direction to truly understand and feel what happened without illusions, and this does heal as we put our new found awareness into practice now.

Miss Piggy....Just a guess here, I have no idea whether it's true or not. Maybe your father has an old unmet need that has driven him his whole life. Perhaps he wasn't loved or never received attention from his parents, if so and he repressed this trauma he might still be driven to fill this old need. Unconscious unmet needs just don't go away, he might try to resolve them forever unless he faces the truth, then it can be finally resolved once he understands what really drives his decisions and emotions now. Maybe these unconscious needs are louder than your words and don't make much sense? Just a thought.......James

Ami

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Re: Study on BPD Sufferers & Cooperation (or lack of it)
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2008, 05:52:31 PM »
I know that I play out old dramas all the time. Watch me at the dentist. I act like I am on the side of the cliff and the dentist is gonna push me in.       Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

teartracks

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Re: Study on BPD Sufferers & Cooperation (or lack of it)
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2008, 07:47:01 PM »



((((((((((Hi dandylife))))))))))),

Wanted to send big hugs to you for the extremely difficult situation you endure.  I support you in your decision to bite the bullet with your mate and face each day with determination and for doing it with an open mind and full knowledge that things probably won't get better.   I can't  imagine what it would be like standing in your shoes.  Scientific theories no matter how convincing, don't soothe an aching heart.  I love the information you post.  It would be easy to just think on them, linger in the 'thinking' mode and ignore the pain you have.   My greatest wish for you is a calm, affirmed, contented. peaceful, loved heart.

tt

 

dandylife

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Re: Study on BPD Sufferers & Cooperation (or lack of it)
« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2008, 10:42:54 PM »
awwww, tt. Thanks so much. BIG hugs right back. You will never know how much I needed that right about now. It's been a tough week.

You have been a source of encouragement for me over the past couple months, it has not gone unnoticed!


(((((((((((((tt)))))))))))))))

Love,
Dandylife
"All things not at peace will cry out." Han Yun

"He who angers you conquers you." - Elizabeth Kenny

dandylife

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Re: Study on BPD Sufferers & Cooperation (or lack of it)
« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2008, 10:48:17 PM »
gjazz,
It's interesting the hereditary link with personality disorders. My partner has a big blank spot beyond is biological father (genetically) and his mother had a possibly schizophrenic and highly alcoholic mother who died young (in her 40's).

My dad was N-istic (and mean and sadistic), my mom was cold and distancing.

My partner's bio father left when my partner was only 3 yrs old, then he had a tough life, from the age of 3, told he was the "man of the family". my god, no wonder he has a "safety and security" issue. He freaks out over the littlest things (...running with scissors! can you hear it in the background?)

Fascinating. I'm trying to learn more about all that. The twins studies done have been very revealing....

Dandylife
"All things not at peace will cry out." Han Yun

"He who angers you conquers you." - Elizabeth Kenny

dandylife

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Re: Study on BPD Sufferers & Cooperation (or lack of it)
« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2008, 10:51:02 PM »
James,
You sound very authoritative with what you're saying about abuse. Do you have a background in therapy? I don't ask in the dreaded sense of "what are your credentials"? Not at all. You just make a LOT of sense and you sound so certain about what you are saying. Makes me curious about your background - do you do some type of therapy in your careeer?

Thanks so much for the wisdom you have shared here, it does open the eyes and mind!

Dandylife
"All things not at peace will cry out." Han Yun

"He who angers you conquers you." - Elizabeth Kenny

James

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Re: Study on BPD Sufferers & Cooperation (or lack of it)
« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2008, 11:31:26 PM »
Dandylife........I am not an authority of any sort even though I have a background in psychology. My schooling provided virtually no help in my recovery and understanding myself better, more specifically the pain I lived with. Miller and a few others have given me, in their work, what I consider the basis for much of this suffering and now I have become acutely aware of the same scenario in many others. Of course I had a lot of therapy, but most of it was ineffective, and it wasn't until with my last therapist I could work thru deeper feelings and begin to unravel some of the trauma that my life really started to change. My very strong feelings abt this subject come from primarily being an abused child. But I also have a desire to share a little of what I found true for myself. The primary focus in my posting to this thread was mostly to call attention to the very serious impact child abuse has on both the child and the adult and how this is still very much minimized or denied throughout society. From personal experience, I believe the therapeutic community is still largely in denial about child abuse and it's effects. Good therapist and effective therapies are hard to come by and just from my observations the general public seems to be confused as to what constitutes child abuse, especially as they may not remember their own childhood.  Thank you for listening to what I have had to say.....Sincerely, James 

Ami

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Re: Study on BPD Sufferers & Cooperation (or lack of it)
« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2008, 08:34:03 AM »
Dandylife........I am not an authority of any sort even though I have a background in psychology. My schooling provided virtually no help in my recovery and understanding myself better, more specifically the pain I lived with. Miller and a few others have given me, in their work, what I consider the basis for much of this suffering and now I have become acutely aware of the same scenario in many others. Of course I had a lot of therapy, but most of it was ineffective, and it wasn't until with my last therapist I could work thru deeper feelings and begin to unravel some of the trauma that my life really started to change. My very strong feelings abt this subject come from primarily being an abused child. But I also have a desire to share a little of what I found true for myself. The primary focus in my posting to this thread was mostly to call attention to the very serious impact child abuse has on both the child and the adult and how this is still very much minimized or denied throughout society. From personal experience, I believe the therapeutic community is still largely in denial about child abuse and it's effects. Good therapist and effective therapies are hard to come by and just from my observations the general public seems to be confused as to what constitutes child abuse, especially as they may not remember their own childhood.  Thank you for listening to what I have had to say.....Sincerely, James 


Great post! You have lived child abuse.You are getting free from the effects of it and trying to enlighten others . Bravo!       Ami       Love    Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

miss piggy

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Re: Study on BPD Sufferers & Cooperation (or lack of it)
« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2008, 12:16:33 AM »

Miss Piggy....Just a guess here, I have no idea whether it's true or not. Maybe your father has an old unmet need that has driven him his whole life. Perhaps he wasn't loved or never received attention from his parents, if so and he repressed this trauma he might still be driven to fill this old need. Unconscious unmet needs just don't go away, he might try to resolve them forever unless he faces the truth, then it can be finally resolved once he understands what really drives his decisions and emotions now. Maybe these unconscious needs are louder than your words and don't make much sense? Just a thought.......James


Thank you for the note.  Everything in my dad's head is louder than life on the outside of it.  I have often wondered what trauma my dad experienced to have such an enormous amount of anxiety in his life.  He could present as OCD as well.  He masked it very well, or at least was really distracted during his work life.  But he hates being alone. I know he was sent to boarding school at a young age.  perhaps that event alone was enough, or something happened while there that makes him feel unsafe.  He certainly hates being in crowds of people, but also is frightened to be alone.  He needs a security blanket in the form of a human being who is not allowed to have needs themselves.  It's awful to watch my mother realize this this late in life.  She is also realizing that her children have known it a very long time and she didn't.  weird. 

Ami

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Re: Study on BPD Sufferers & Cooperation (or lack of it)
« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2008, 07:52:06 AM »
It sounds very sad, Miss Piggy.                  Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

teartracks

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Re: Study on BPD Sufferers & Cooperation (or lack of it)
« Reply #29 on: August 29, 2008, 09:02:47 PM »



Hi dandylife,

I've been meaning to ask if you've read anything by A. J. Mahari on the subject of BPD? 

tt