Author Topic: N is back  (Read 2554 times)

seasons

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N is back
« on: September 11, 2008, 10:31:39 AM »
Quote
I lost half of my post, sorry I need to fix it.  thanks seasons
She wants me closer, she misses what we had, my fault I have let time go by and let our relationship fall to the way side.
I don't realize how my actions have damaged our closeness.

For example.
She has a picture of us in a frame, I have never seen. Sister says I ruined her joy because I said I don't like the picture. I don't remember the picture she choose to put in a frame. So now when she looks at it she feels hurt and it's all my fault.
Gosh she picked it out from a bunch of picutes that I commented on I guess. She is nuts!!!!!!

Says I never eat with her. She wants us to go out for dinner.
We all kids included this summer went for a picnic at the beach with a small amusement park.
Quote
I ATE WITH HER
.
My youngest daughter was was getting very over heated at the beach and wanted to go under a tree. My sister was bull sh**.
She actually had the nerve to say "I don't get the chance to be on the ocean as much as you."
I said, "You can stay I am taking her to cool off." She sat there whined poor her is missing her enjoyment of the ocean.





Complains our talks are several weeks apart, to long for her. She feels hurt again.

Wants to come to my home. Says I don't want her there. She is hurt.

Wants me to visit her. Hurt I don't come by.

Wants us to go shopping more. Sadly misses those times.

I don't realize how short life is, she does.

She misses my kids they are growing up and she is missing that. She ignores them, they play nurses aid to her that is it.

We all kids included this summer went for a picnic at the beach with a small amusement park. I ATE WITH HER.

Several weeks ago I called her she was cooking, I said, "I'll call you back in a hour and a half." I never did.
She asked why I did that, she prepared coffee and was waiting.........waiting for me................ she said her son felt bad for her becuase she waited so long.
Um I didn't call back because I felt the vibes of a vampire on the phone that night.
She could of called me and asked hey I've been waiting what's up or something, she didn't. POWER and HER CONTROL.

I can't finish this post because I just got this email invite to my sisters birthday.........

 Theresa's 60th Birthday

Sunday SEPTEMBER 21st @ 12:45 Pm


 I am having a panick attack. Everyone is invited including a sister I haven't spoken or seen in over a year. A brother since June and my oldest brother in over two years.
 Many cousins of my sister and I. It's like a mega family reunion.  my heart is beating so fast.
seasons

« Last Edit: September 11, 2008, 11:34:21 AM by seasons »
"Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak Kindly. Leave the Rest to God."
Maya Angelou

Hopalong

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Re: N is back
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2008, 02:53:07 PM »
Take a date?

Sometimes I need a buffer.

Or don't go?

See the sister you haven't seen in a while on your own time?

OR: Go and tell yourself ahead of time that she will never be satisfied, will always act hurt, will be guaranteed to complain and find fault. This is who she is and what she does. It's like her height. She is just a manipulative person.

Maybe if you have NO HOPE of her being any different, you could detach enough to get through this event, if it's even worth it to go...

hugs
Hops

"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Ami

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Re: N is back
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2008, 04:50:03 PM »
Dear Seasons
  I can hear your distress. I have a few thoughts.
  One it that N's are genius's at blame. My H can blame anyone for anything and it looks perfectly credible.
  Your sister is ,obviously, blaming you for everything. It is clear  to an outsider.
  Our self esteem can be so low that we take the blame for everything.
  The other thing is the party. I realized much too late that I was not obligated to go to events just b/c the social expectations were there. I learned this in a round about way after getting so sick that I could not go and then seeing that I could have chosen this  along.
  I am sorry that you don't have sisters who appreciate you more. I bet you are the favorite aunt to their children, as my aunt was to me.
 I bet the children look up to you as a place of sanity in an insane world. I appreciate you, Seasons,very much.
                                                                 Love   Ami
« Last Edit: September 11, 2008, 11:06:25 PM by Ami »
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

seasons

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Re: N is back
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2008, 10:53:59 PM »



Quote
Or don't go?

I liked your options and I pick this one. Thanks so much Hops. ox seasons

"Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak Kindly. Leave the Rest to God."
Maya Angelou

ann3

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Re: N is back
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2008, 12:35:07 PM »
I ATE WITH HER.

I didn't call back because I felt the vibes of a vampire on the phone that night.

She could of called me and asked hey I've been waiting what's up or something, she didn't. POWER and HER CONTROL.


Hi Seasons,

I share with you a lesson that for me has come home to roost big time:  Listen to your Gut & Trust your Gut.  Period.  For me, this N abuse comes down to that:  Listen to your Gut & Trust your Gut.  I will no longer allow the Ns to distort my reality.  I know how I feel & I will not allow anyone to steal or distort my truth.

IMO, your sentences which I quoted above are your Gut talking to you.  Listen to your Gut & hear it.  Sounds like you feel that your sister tries to control you, vampire you, distorts the truth (I ATE WITH HER).  Sounds like you do not want to go.  Or, if you want to 'save face', put on your force field boundaries, go for 20 minutes & leave (make up an excuse).

Realize you can do whatever you want:  You are the owner/operator of you.

IMO, you know the problem isn't per se the party, but the problem is your feelings about her.  You can choose to work on your feelings about her (decide how you want to react to her, detach from her, go to therapy, whatever..) or not (and leave things status quo).  All of this is your choice.

Edit:  I see you decided not to go.  Good for you!!

xoxo,
ann

« Last Edit: September 12, 2008, 12:43:14 PM by ann3 »

Gaining Strength

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Re: N is back
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2008, 01:06:28 PM »
Your sister sounds like she has Borderline Personality traits. Are you familiar with those?  She wants to be close to you and yet she is critical and rejecting at the same time.  You can't win.  If you are with her - (at the beach) it is not enough.  When you must care for your daughter she sees it as a rejection of her.  She clearly has a fractured ego and cannot hold responsibility for her own actions.

There is a book called "Stop Walking on Eggshells."  It has some glaring weaknesses but if you skim it you may find some strategies that you can use to create the distance that you need to protect yourself, protect your heart.  If you did not have a sensitive heart and did not care about your sister you would have been able to walk away.  It is your caring heart that makes it so very difficult to create the protection and distance that you must have. 

If you have a Borders or Books-A-Million or Barns and Noble go in and pick up "Walking on Eggshells" and browse it.  Another helpful book is Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend but the boudaries book does not address people with a push-me/pull-you personality like your sister.  It keeps the focus on you - which is good - but I also find it helpful to read descriptions of people who are like the ones I am caught in an emotional struggle with.  That connection helps me unhook.

Good luck to you.  It is a terrible place to be.

Ami

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Re: N is back
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2008, 02:33:39 PM »
Dear Ann
 Thank you for that post. I know you wrote it to Seasons,but I was feeling very lost and confused and you answered me like a Divine Messenger. Thanks again , Ann, for your wisdom on the board.    Love   Ami
« Last Edit: September 12, 2008, 02:50:05 PM by Ami »
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

ann3

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Re: N is back
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2008, 10:19:25 PM »
Hi Ami,

How are you?  Please know you are often in my thoughts even if I don't write to you.  I think about how you are doing and how you are journeying down the road.

Thank you for your kind words.  I should have told you that you helped me immensely by talking  about Alice Miller.  I've read many of her books and her web site, but, a few weeks ago, I spent hours reading some of her essays on her web site and they helped me crystalize my feelings, particularly not allowing others to gaslight me.  So, thank you, Ami.

Yes, I am really sold on this listening to my gut thing, my inner voice,my intuition.  The Ns disuade us from listening to our gut:  they gas light us and then we doubt our inner voice and then we have lost our compass.

The more I read Alice Miller, the more convinced I became that I grew up in a home that was illuminated by GASLIGHT,not electric!!  From now on,I just refuse to allow anyone to steal my reality.

I agree with SS that season's sister may be BPD (ish) and I recommend the Stop Walking on Eggshell book. 

Sorry for the hijack, seasons.

xoxo,
ann



seasons

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Re: N is back
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2008, 01:23:56 AM »

(Ann I am sorry this is the worst thread to try and figure out my story. I lost most of my post above.
I do have two older N sisters, one I haven't seen in over a year. Two older brothers, one I haven't seen in three years. Very disfunctional to say the least.)


Dear Ami, Shame Slayer, Ann and Hops,
 I can't thank you enough, I feel friendly hands reaching out with great support and guidance. Your thoughts are greatly appreciated. Thank you, I am picking up that book tomorrow.

Warning this is a vent from a day I had with my n. Warning it is my last post about our conversations because there is going to be no more.

 Today was a nightmare. I spoke to Theresa my oldest n today for hours. Yes, that is correct. I asked her tons of questions about her childhood,
about her relationship with my other nsister, how our parents were with them when they were young etc...

Izzy's thread got me to look for more answers, dig a bit since we did not grow up together.

Over the summer our phone calls went from every few day to 10 days to two weeks, yes I count. lol

Her calls were diminishing, I found myself calling her just so I wouldn't the bad one. But I was proud I could go a week or so before the guilt of checking in creeped back in my head. Hard to bread old habits but I did feel I was making progress.

I also was happy she was finding other people or things to keep her busy, so I THOUGHT. WRONG!!!!!!!!!

Oh my gosh I did not know what was brewing underneath the peace I thought I had found.

I admit today I kissed her but trying to find out and bit of information of abuse, neglect, anything they had experienced to have caused such a sickness.

In between my questions she ripped my apart again, she isn't done with me as she continued her verbal attacks and lies.

Examples of our conversation.........

Her daughters sent my daughter graduation cards. Absolutely, thoughtful, generous and kind of them.
My daughter was thrilled. She sent them a thank you with in two days of receiving their gift.

 She keeps complaing I didn't call her when my D received the cards. I could of given the wrong address? I was waiting to hear from you so I could tell G and C she received their cards. They know I am terrible with addresses and can make mistakes so easily. She just kept on stabbing, deeper and deeper.. how I have been disappointing her.

Next, " You know they didn't have to do that!"  (send a card)
What kind of comment is that?
 I expressed how thoughtful they were to think of my D.

Why not say that was nice they did that, instead of talking to me like I am or my D is an underserving piece of Sh**.

She wasn't done with me yet...................

Theresa said, "I was so disappointed you never went of G's (her adult daughter) pool this summer."
The real take, in early July my sister said her daughter wanted to have me and my girls over this summer in the pool.
I said, " We would love to come, the girls would have a ball playing with her 3 year old granddaughter."
At that point there wasn't a date made, just a future vistit to plan.

Today when my sister stated the above, I was speechless.  She never called me again with an invitation, or her daughter. I just figured the summer flew by and her daughter didn't have a chance to get together, either because of being busy or the tons of rain we got.

How could I hurt her, when I was never invited? No answer required. Just venting. Was I suppose to pack up and just show up on her D doorstep? No I don't think she would of appreciated such rudeness!

I did try and reply even though I was caught off guard. I said, " It was one of many things we hoped to do, but just never happened."
 She said, I don't beg anymore and I don't call more than once. Her new favorite statement.
You can't beg me if I was never asked in the first place.


I said, " Theresa we (my family) had a busy summer you know, DH nephew was in the ICU from July till end of August."
He was in grave condition, 42 years old with two beautiful children.
Sadly he passed away at the end of August. Our hearts mourn along with his children and family and friends.

Sick bit** says to me I factored that in when I was putting it all together in my mind. ( She meant I let her down by my lack of attention)
Not one bit of empathy, or understanding or a reminder of what we went through. She in insane!!!!!

Today I listen to her tell me about someone with mono. Acting like it was a family tragedy.

Also asked if I ever thought I she manages to survive on her $500 disability check each month. Motive trying to make me fee pity and guilt.
Truth, her son who lives with her gets $1000 for disability too, plus food stamps. He gives her $600. Plus money he makes below.
Truth her son who is 28 works for 5 contactors under the table. They call him off the wall. He makes more than his check at the end of the month.
Truth her friend pays for her electricity each month, she lies about the amount by $15- $20 to pocket. she is sick, greedy and ungrateful.
Truth her husband pays for their little mortgage and insurance.
Truth her and her son who pitch in together bought a flat screen tv and a gas grill this summer. I don't know but I wouldn't say they are starving.
Truth her yard is filled with flowers from spring thru thanksgiving. I mean it is the best dressed on the street. Who can do that on a disability check???
Truth many people give her money or freebees after her conning them. more $$ shes doing better than most people I know in a months time.
Sad that I know so many people deserve assistance and get denied and they have just played the system and with a hidden smile.

more....................

She again mentioned how she almost sent me a letter but decided not to because she received one and wasn't going to do that to me.
Her daughter sent her a letter, that called her bipolar, get help mom or I am out of your life etc.

All I have done is been the perfect victim. Who sadly is starting to hate her. My patience, my love for her as my sister even with this illness is being driven out of my heart.
How sad, I believe I can only love and pray for her from a very far away place.
This has been her doing, her worst enemy..................... is herself.

She said she felt slapped in the face. I didn't respond, silence, my body shaking, my voice wanting to yell F U and slam the phone.
I didn't.

Even though I have decided not to go to this party I thought now is a bad time to tell her off, because her daughter will find out the week of the party.
Her daughters would know their mother would go into a tail spin and they would suffer because she knows nothing about the party they have planned.
The few times we have argued or I spook up in the past she turned to them and they didn't like it.
They like that she has me. They don't know about Narcissism, so they don't realize what they like is that I am her supply.

The End Results may of saved the rest of my life.

This afternoon my husband and I went out for coffee. I was telling him what happened. My anxiety was through the roof.
He asked me to stop, he took my hand and asked are you cold?
No i said.
Then he says your are shaking, your voiced is stammering like you are freezing, oh my Gosh look what she has done to you. You are scaring me, calm down, take a breath.
It was like I was on speed, my heart racing my body shaking, I couldn't stop it. It took a long time to calm half way down from uncontrollable shakes.

I have never had such a physical responce to her abuse. Yes, many times have had anger, panic attacks, anxiety but never, ever to this level.

I believe the thoughts of her daughters really wayed on my heart. They are trying to do a nice thing not knowing my anguish. Not wanting to tell them their mother is a
Narc and I am done.

My niece called and left a message today, asking if we are going.

Do I tell them the truth?
Wait and give a fake excuse? So they aren't mad at the birthday girl.

(((((((((NC))))))))))) What a beautiful choice to have. AS I believe my sister disease is progressing and is dangerous to my health and my family.

((a safe place, so thankful)) seasons

                         

« Last Edit: September 13, 2008, 01:49:12 AM by seasons »
"Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak Kindly. Leave the Rest to God."
Maya Angelou

Ami

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Re: N is back
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2008, 09:08:12 AM »
Dear Seasons
  I am  glad you are expressing your pain ,here, Seasons.
 It is so necessary to have a place to let it out.
 I think that you are facing the truth b/c you are strong enough,now.
 I think your body knew the truth all along,but your mind just accepted. That is why your body reacted so strongly.
 You remind me of my Aunt. She was a loving oasis. Her sister(my M) seems inhuman,often. My Aunt has little to do with my M.
 Seasons, I think that you are on your way to being more whole.I think that as you love and honor yourself more, you will know what to do with your sister, and you ARE.
 You are doing the right thing,IMO.
  It is very painful to face the truth,but the only way to peace within yourself.
   I am on your side, support you 100% and know that you are doing the right thing with your sister.
      Love   Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Gaining Strength

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Re: N is back
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2008, 10:32:59 AM »
Seasons - the most important thing at this time is protecting yourself.  You must find a way to create an excuse that will be acceptable to your nieces.  It doesn't have to be what you are doing but it must protect you.  Don't get into telling them about your sister being an N.  They will not likely understand.  They will want you and your family there to be with them.  Besides it sounds like your presence saves them from some of her meanness.

So for now, talk with your husband and create an excuse that will get you out of the party and save you as much abuse from your sister and her family as possible.  You may want to leave town that day.  Whatever works.  Good luck to you.

ann3

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Re: N is back
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2008, 11:56:45 AM »
Seasons,

Are you sure that Theresa isn't one of my relatives?!? :lol: :x :shock: :( :P

IMO, this is the most important line in your post:   I have never had such a physical responce to her abuse. Yes, many times have had anger, panic attacks, anxiety but never, ever to this level.  Do not subject yourself to anything or anyone who leads you to have this type of reaction.

I agree w/ SS:  make up an excuse,leave town, whatever, but do not enter the lion's den.  Not going to that party is probably one of the healthiest things you could do.

Also agree with SS, do not tell neices about Nism because you will just create bad feelings & give Theresa N supply.

IMO, best thing to do is to detach from the craziness, don't let the N suck you in.

After the party, when things calm down, maybe send an email or note to Theresa saying that you have noticed that your relationship with her has got rather rocky and that you need some time to figure out what you can do to make it calmer, and until you can figure out a solution, it may be best to not communicate so often (or not communicate at all), and, also tell her that you love her, but you just need some time to figure things out.  This gives you time to breath and allows you to do "no contact", while also telling her that you love her. 

IMO, kinda the best of both worlds:  I love you, but don't contact me & if you do contact me, I will not respond until I am ready for contact.

I myself did this with my sister (I need some time to figure things out, I do not want to communicate until I'm ready, but I love you) and it's worked well.  Took me a while to fashion that solution.  Now, my sister acts sweet as pie when she emails me and calls me.  Yes, we have a superficial relationship, but, I no longer have panic attacks when dealing with her.

What I also like about this solution is that I do love my sister, but I can't fix her, so I leave her to God.  And, during the 'no contact' time, I will look at myself and try to understand why I allow this person to induce my panic or why I allow myself to react with panic when she pushes my buttons.  My reactions are my choice, I do not have to react with a panic attack.

And, this is key:  why do we allow them to push our buttons so that we go into a panic attack or whatever negative reaction?  Our ultimate goal is to DETACH.  We may love them, but we have worked on our boundaries, we validate our reality and therefore, we DETACH from their negative emotions. 

Their negative emotions DO NOT BELONG TO US.  We are not sponges for other people's negative emotions.  We have boundaries, so other people's negative emotions cannot destroy us.  We own our own reality, so we know when we must detach, walk away and have no contact with negative people.

xoxox,
ann



Ami

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Re: N is back
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2008, 04:05:29 PM »
Thinking of you, Seasons. Wondering how you are doing.           Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

seasons

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Re: N is back
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2008, 11:57:01 PM »

SS,

Quote
Your sister sounds like she has Borderline Personality traits. Are you familiar with those?


 I'm not sure? I do believe she has more than NPD. It is sad how sick she is, her behavior is out of control.

I believe decades of abuse I have stuffed silently down is easily erupted these days. I hope it is a sign of healing, a sign of strength that I can't take it anymore.

That I have a right to be safe, relaxed and happy without her so close, she can steel this from me.

I feel so flat, my guilt doesn't dwell in my heart as it did before. It dissipates very quickly, again I hope a strength and healing has occurred.

                   ox seasons


Quote
And, this is key:  why do we allow them to push our buttons so that we go into a panic attack or whatever negative reaction?  Our ultimate goal is to DETACH.  We may love them, but we have worked on our boundaries, we validate our reality and therefore, we DETACH from their negative emotions. 

Their negative emotions DO NOT BELONG TO US.  We are not sponges for other people's negative emotions.  We have boundaries, so other people's negative emotions cannot destroy us.  We own our own reality, so we know when we must detach, walk away and have no contact with negative people.

xoxox,
ann

Thank you ann, lovely put.

I love your analogy of a sponge. I feel this sponge has dried up and is starting to repel !!  Your right their negative emotions belong to them, not us.

In the deepest part of me, I do believe NC is the only way out of this for me.

I take responsibility for my decision knowing I have done my best. Now I can love and wish her health from afar.  I am content.  ox seasons

 
"Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak Kindly. Leave the Rest to God."
Maya Angelou

Ami

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Re: N is back
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2008, 07:42:38 AM »
Dear Seasons
 I think that you are right--you are healing. You are facing the truth,head -on, and expressing it. You  sound like my Aunt. You possess the warmth, love and grace in your family.
 That is what it sounds like to me. My Aunt will not spend  time with my M, very little. My M upsets her .
 My Aunt says, "She is my sister, but I cannot spend much time with her."
 My Aunt chooses not to let the N bullets hit her.
 You, Seasons, are a darling person,like my Aunt.
 You can't fix your sister. If you could, you would have by now.
 It is easy for me to say,but hard to take away your guilt,pain and desire for attachment.
 I am here for you,Seasons, and I understand the pain of N. It is a huge, terrible hole which people have fallen in to, our loved ones. It is so very sad but hopeless to change or help.     Love  Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung