Author Topic: Do N's want us to sacrifice our peace of mind?  (Read 1952 times)

Dawning

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Do N's want us to sacrifice our peace of mind?
« on: June 05, 2009, 12:23:58 PM »
Can anyone relate to this?

In my FOO, everyone (except my grandparents who are all deceased) has wanted me - since birth - to sacrfice my happiness, peace-of-mind and serenity to gain acceptance into the family.  They continue to do this in the present.  I will write more in a little while as I am going to the hot springs now for a little relaxing dip. 

What hurts:

There is NO CARE in wanting a family member to not be happy.  And they are so overt about it.  They don't care and they want me to know this.  Yet, they still expect me to play their game of letting them belittle me, criticize me or show no interest whatsoever in anything about my life and to let them get away with it..  Yet, they want me to show an interest in their lives constantly and consistently.  It's so frustrating and depressing to know how they are. 
"No one's life is worth more than any other...no sister is less than any brother...."

Ami

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Re: Do N's want us to sacrifice our peace of mind?
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2009, 10:03:39 PM »
Dear Dawning
 I am so happy for this Board. I am coming out of denial about how my FOO is. It sounds like you are, too.
 It really is a horror show, a continual episode of the Twilight Zone.
 Today, after doing  Yoga, I saw that my M was (is) a predator. It was a deep insight and it hurt badly .
  I was in denial and as such was emotionally sick.
  I have to face truth in order to be emotionally healthy. It hurts SOOOO much. It just does.
  I understand Dawning. I wish I didn't but I do. You are not alone. Keep reaching out, dear friend.      Love to you   Ami
 
« Last Edit: June 06, 2009, 08:15:38 PM by Ami »
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Hopalong

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Re: Do N's want us to sacrifice our peace of mind?
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2009, 05:27:15 AM »
They don't care, they expect, they want, they belittle, they don't care, they demand...

What about what YOU want?

If these people are incapable of loving you, what do YOU want to be giving to them?

How about distance?
How about detaching?

How about saying NO?
How about giving them a new experience, of Dawning saying NO?

It's your precious life.

love
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

rosencrantz

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Re: Do N's want us to sacrifice our peace of mind?
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2009, 09:31:43 AM »
I think mine didn't even know they were demanding that I give up my life and my sanity to please them and keep them feeling safe (and to keep their marriage functioning!).  My mother wouldn't have accepted that it was true.  Didn't she sacrifice everything for me, after all?  As far as I can see, everything she did was to please herself and to create a life-size walking talking robot ('her daughter') who would reflect well on her and do what she determined was 'right', including my job, career, the way I looked, what I ate, etc etc etc.

I wasn't prepared to enter into the transaction once I spotted what was going on. 

My mother was still convincing the rest of the family that I was a recalcitrant teenager (even at the age of 50+)

You just have to find family and friends in other people - good role models.

It made a huge difference for me when I gave birth to my own child.  I realised just how much of what she did I would never do.   All her declarations of 'you'll know what it's like if you have a child of your own' didn't exactly have the effect she had intended.  It made the cutting of our own 'umbilical cord' much easier.  It was also easier to forgive my father for colluding with her.

I think our problem is that we find it so impossible to believe that our families actually do not care - or at least, they do not recognise our needs, are incapable of meeting them.  They have no idea what you need and are so damaged themselves that they are only capable of damaging you in turn - and probably have very little insight into their behaviour. They don't need to because they can play out the damage they experienced by damaging you and seeing YOU squirm.  What a sad so**ing world we live in.
"No matter how enmeshed a commander becomes in the elaboration of his own
thoughts, it is sometimes necessary to take the enemy into account" Sir Winston Churchill

Ami

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Re: Do N's want us to sacrifice our peace of mind?
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2009, 10:37:26 AM »
Boy, Rose. You see it straight.
I am trying to connect with the "me" that I shoved away like an abused child locked in a closet. I shoved myself away b/c I could NOT face how my M REALLY was. I would have rather destroyed myself than see her as she was.I was revolted by her, sick to my stomach. Inside the core of me I could have thrown up over and over and never gotten rid of the vileness of her.
  I destroyed myself so I could believe SHE was the good one. She threw the split off parts of herself on me.She is a practicing therapist
 God sent me s/one to love me and his love started my seeing myself UNDER  the distortions. That is where I am now. However, *I* want to love and honor myself. *I* want to be at peace in my own skin.I want to feel I am special in a healthy N way.
  If I had a good relationship and still hated myself, I would not be happy. I would not be at peace.

     Ami
 
« Last Edit: June 06, 2009, 10:54:07 AM by Ami »
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

rosencrantz

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Re: Do N's want us to sacrifice our peace of mind?
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2009, 01:19:35 PM »
Yup!

I can feel all that sickness at the core - I identify with that.

One day I realised (through writing here actually) that I split my good mother and the bad.  I'd write about how awful she had been on a particular day and then gradually forget.  It was only because I knew I'd WRITTEN IT DOWN that I started to get into the habit of remembering, of comparing one day with another and noticing.

We need to believe they are the good ones - because we depend on them (when we are children).

Now we need to create new habits and new ways of relating...

But old habit die hard!!!
"No matter how enmeshed a commander becomes in the elaboration of his own
thoughts, it is sometimes necessary to take the enemy into account" Sir Winston Churchill

Ami

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Re: Do N's want us to sacrifice our peace of mind?
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2009, 02:46:29 PM »
Dear Rose,
  As I do  Kundalini Yoga, each day I  can see my M's face more and more clearly. I  see the horror of her and as I do, *I* feel more solid.
 As her face gets more defined,  I am becoming unfrozen and can feel and see life more as it is.     Ami


No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Dawning

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Re: Do N's want us to sacrifice our peace of mind?
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2009, 02:56:49 PM »
Quote
It made a huge difference for me when I gave birth to my own child.  I realised just how much of what she did I would never do.   All her declarations of 'you'll know what it's like if you have a child of your own' didn't exactly have the effect she had intended.  It made the cutting of our own 'umbilical cord' much easier.  It was also easier to forgive my father for colluding with her.

R, I am envious of this.  I think the worst sacrifice I ever made was to not go out and seek the making of a good family of my own including having a child.  I just found out that I am still fertile (according to the hormone assay) and could possibly go to a sperm bank but is is fair to bring a child into this world without a father or extended family and local community of support and a mother of 46 years old?  That's a topic for another thread.

Quote
Now we need to create new habits and new ways of relating...

But old habit die hard!!!

I couldn't agree more.  

I feel my FOO situation more acutely these days because 1.5 years ago, I returned to the U.S. after almost 20 years of living abroad.  When there was an ocean separating us, I felt more protected from them but also that I was in escape-mode.  One month ago, I wrote my dad (he and my mom split during the pregnancy) and stood up to him.  I'm glad I did that because I see him for who he is and called him on it before he died.  If he had died before these emails of last month, I never would have known and no doubt would have continued to blame myself.  As painful as it was to read his uncaring words, I felt - at the end - that I could wash my hands and know thast the next relationships I build with men will be healthier because I certainly don't want to have a man like my father in my life!  

As for my mother, I have said NO to her many times.  The last one was when she insisted that flying to the Pacific NW to visit friends for two nights would be too expensive and I "shouldn't spend money I don't have."  Firstly, I have savings in the 5 digits and climbing and I live in California so the airfare is cheap.  Secondly, she suggested that I fly to see her (on the East Coast) instead (which would be more expensive.)  The clue phone is ringing.  DUH!!!  The other day, she let me know that her sister and niece will be visiting this weekend.  She also went into a tirade (totally out of the blue) about how she didn't have her silicon implants in the 70's "out of vanity" but "to improve her form."  And then she ended by saying, "I'm not a narcissist as YOU seem to think."  Then she went on and on about her current ailment after telling me she didn't want to talk about.  I swear I stayed on the phone for a good 30 minutes listening to her try and make herself look good, evaluating all the holes in her thinking and not saying a word.  I just kept saying inwardly, "don't let her wreck your peace-of-mind."  Well, it is what it is with her.  

I will not dance her dance because I love myself and relating to her in this way is less than the type of relationships I am worth having.  Ditto for my aunt and cousin who also have this tendency to use me to pump themselves up.

I am going to volunteer today at an animal shelter.  

The last remaining piece of this disaster of being used will end on the 16th of this month when I get all the stuff out of here (and the person) and chalk it up to yet another sign that having relationships where someone is using me or my space is not acceptable.

NO!  I will not be used!





« Last Edit: June 06, 2009, 02:59:24 PM by Dawning »
"No one's life is worth more than any other...no sister is less than any brother...."

Ami

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Re: Do N's want us to sacrifice our peace of mind?
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2009, 03:07:28 PM »
(((((Dawning)))))
 You are a soul sister.
 I am gonna tell you  about my life making different choices than you and sometimes wishing I made your choices.
 I married s/one for my M ,but did not realize it then.
 I wanted my M to finally love me and be a normal M. I married s/one she would think highly of.
 I kept shutting down more and more .
 I had two children whom I loved so much. I was really close to them.One committed suicide a year and a half ago.
 There is a picture of my beautiful son Scott in the archives of this Board.
 Dawning, I did it all different from you and I did it all wrong.   Love,   Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

rosencrantz

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Re: Do N's want us to sacrifice our peace of mind?
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2009, 03:35:12 PM »
Dawning - That could be a conversation with my own mother.  But I see more clearly now the low self-esteem that makes her say the things she does.

'Come and see me' : she can't just say 'I need you, I love you, I'd love for you to visit - can I pay your fare'.  No - she's jealous of friends getting you, that you'll spend money going to see them but not thinking of going to see her (if you see how the mind is working). She's got so much pain but cannot express it honestly.  It's hidden.  Perhaps it's hidden from herself, too.  She wasn't given to, wasn't loved.  And then her guilt suddenly coming up out of nowhere and sending her on a tirade of defensiveness.  And the 'huh, so there' of 'as YOU seem to think'.

It's so hard for everyone.  As children, even adult children, it's extremely hard for us to hear their pain and respond in a way they would find healing.  They ask too much - but I guess they see us (everyone) as their own ungiving and unforgiving parents, just as we see them as the same.  Well done to us if we manage to break the damage that is handed down, generation after generation.

Ami - the pain of a child leaving this world in that way - too much pain to bear.  Unthinkable.

"No matter how enmeshed a commander becomes in the elaboration of his own
thoughts, it is sometimes necessary to take the enemy into account" Sir Winston Churchill

Dawning

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Re: Do N's want us to sacrifice our peace of mind?
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2009, 01:04:37 PM »
Thank you for your candidness, Ami.  I can't imagine how you feel (sense of loss comes to mind) over your son but I'd like to hear.

Rose, I appreciate your statements of clarity.

I can see how I look to intact marriages and assume all is well.  I did marry a man I did not love when I was very young.  It was an early marriage and an early divorce and I struck out on my own after that.  Sort of iike that Christopher McCandless in INTO THE WILD.  But I have never experienced childbirth and people tell me that I would make (would have made  :() a very good mother.

I try to get through the days as best I can.  I would like to tell a story too:

in Fall 2007, I came back to the U.S. with all my belongings and my two cats with a o/w ticket to live here.  My partner helped me move.  We had just spent a lovely time together in Hawaii in July, 2007 with his son just several months before.  The move was hard on me emotionally; leaving a great job, my niche of 17 years and saying goodbye to all my good friends.  While my partner was helping me move, he began to get more and more intolerant of my emotions that came up involved in making this HUGE move.  Right before the trip to the airport, he disappeared and showed up one day before the departure date.  As soon as we got to the states, his friend picked us up, we moved to a location that was TOTALLY different from the big, Asian city I had called home for all those years.  The first night in that badly-built cottage, I heard coyotes for the first time in my life.  I had to buy all new furniture, live off my savings because I did not have a job, and my friends were suddenly 5,000 miles away.  A week into this, my partner left me and start coming and going as he liked.  There was no relationship anymore.  He was using my place as a place to cook, take a shower and sleep.  He told me that I had gotten fat and was inconsiderate to steal the covers in bed and he "had no interest" in sleeping with me anymore.  That was Fall of 2007 and here it is summer of 2009 and I have finally realized that how he treated me was unacceptable!   :shock:

After he left, I sent emails to my friends and family here in the U.S.  None of my FOO members called except my mother.  But I shouldn't be surprised as none of them called me when I lived overseas for almost 20 years.  And now I get subtle clues that in order to have a relationship with them, I need to make the effort!   :x  I called my family from overseas ALOT.  

Somehow, I have managed to move out of that remote, isolated location and into the town I originally wanted to live in.  My situation is not perfect but I am still gainfully employed, got a little raise and I'm looking to moving into a bigger place this summer.  I'm visiting friends in Seattle for a couple of nights too - friends that I met after I came back to the states.  Slowly, BUT SOMETIMES TOO SLOWLY things are betting better.  

The point I want to make is that from the time I uprooted myself from my long life overseas up until the last two months, I felt that all this mess with my partner and my FOO was somehow all my fault.  My partner even hit me once and I blamed myself.

Now, fast-forward to April, 2009.  A man I met at the same time as my ex-partner asks if he can stay with me for a little while.  Almost 1.5 months later he is still here.  He comes and goes when he wants, sleeps here, showers here and cooks here.  He has not given me any money and I have not asked for it because he said he was trying to set up a learning foundation and I wanted to support that.  While setting this up, he has not introduced me to his friends, spends alot of time with my ex and doesn't include me in anything.  I have grown increasingly stressed out over this.    I told him today that he has to leave because I need my personal space back.   Similar pattern:  I sacrificed my well being and personal space in order to gain acceptance into a circle of people that this person is associated with.

Forget all these old habits of letting people use me in return for the promises of care and goodwill.  This is unacceptable.  That is what I have learned in the past 18 months of my life. But, really, it is more of the same kind of sacrifices I have made my whole life for empty promises.

I will not sacrifice my precious life and peace-of-mind anymore for empty promises.

My intention is to make new habits and approach life with freshness along with a helluva lot of wisdom-coming-up.  Beliefe in myself and my gut instinct.  Not settling for empty promises and false hopes.    

Using my goodness to help people and animals who really need it and show some appreciation, understanding, care and affection.  Things I did not receive from the FOO. 

But I'm still alive.

It is never too late.

Starting today.



« Last Edit: June 07, 2009, 01:19:22 PM by Dawning »
"No one's life is worth more than any other...no sister is less than any brother...."

Ami

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Re: Do N's want us to sacrifice our peace of mind?
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2009, 10:12:46 PM »
Dear (((Dawning)))
 Those damn FOO keep repeating like onions on an empty stomach.
  I hear your pain. I hear your hope of a better future.
  I wish I were on the other side where I had s/thing wise to say, that I had gotten to the other side.
   Maybe , we can help each other walk forward.        Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Dawning

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Re: Do N's want us to sacrifice our peace of mind?
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2009, 11:00:31 PM »
Quote
like onions on an empty stomac

Ami,
Ha!  I like that metaphor.  Thanks.

How do I access the archives so I can see the pic you spoke of.

Tonight is the first night I've been in my place alone since April 24th.  And that evening was hellish, so alot of stuff is coming up that I didn't have a chance to process on account of having a guest.

I think it is important to remember some good things; focus on positivity and peace-of-mind.

When I am alone, I sometimes get scared; like there is something wrong with me because I do not have a family.

The fact is - I/we I have the gift of life.  If nothing else, I love my mother and father for that.
"No one's life is worth more than any other...no sister is less than any brother...."

Ami

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Re: Do N's want us to sacrifice our peace of mind?
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2009, 07:11:22 AM »
I looked it up .If you type "The Picture of Ami's son Scott" in the Board search engine, it will bring it up. Wiltay started the thread.
       
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung