N parent (estranged) terminally ill. How to cope?

[JustKathy]

I wanted to say thank you to everyone who replied to my post. I can’t tell you how much it means to me to talk to other people who “get it.” My emotions were bouncing off the walls, and your words and advice really helped me to put a lot of things in perspective and get me stabilized. (Human comfort works much better than Xanax).

I finally got to see my therapist today. It helped a lot, though I’m not totally agreeing with everything she said. She feels that I should visit M for my father’s benefit, and to do whatever it takes to help him through it. My feeling (at least right now) is that I can help him somewhat, but there are definite limits to what I can and can’t do.

There was one thing she did say that I found interesting, and worth passing on. My father commented that M has been unusually upbeat for someone who has just received a terminal prognosis. My therapist said that Ns often ignore a terminal prognosis, and don’t feel that they’ll actually die. They believe they can manipulate death, the same way they manipulated everything else in life. She said she has had several patients who lost N parents, and that even in the final stages of illness, the parent did not believe they would really die. After all, they ALWAYS got their way in life through manipulation . . . they can manipulate their way out of this one too.

I’m not sure if others on this board have experienced that, but I found it interesting (and knowing Ns, quite believable).

[lizzie20]

Hi JustKathy,

I can see serious merit in what your therapist has suggested for quite a few reasons. I refer to the suggestion for you to see or communicate with your mother.

'Strategy' is often overlooked as a life tool by those of us who have been subjected to control & manipulation - too much & for too long.

We often confuse or fear taking control of our circumstances or developing effective strategies. It can seem to us that we too are using control and manipulation, when in fact it depends very much on our agenda. If we are acting in our own best interests & doing it to maintain our own firm, healthy boundaries then it benefits everybody involved.

Strategically, I see supporting your father by communicating with your mother at this very difficult time as a good idea for the future. Especially for your future relationship with him & the rest of your family after she has passed over, & taking into consideration the power-vacuum which undoubtedly will emerge once she's gone. Who will fill this gap?

I doubt it will be your father. He's made a life of accomodating to other people's power. I agree that he could have slipped you a twenty & she need never have known. Your sister coped by hiding her own personality from your mother, & in turn the world, it seems. It looks that your brother was able to use & even develop his charm to not only survive, but do well with your mother.

If having closer or better relations with the rest of your family after you mother goes is important to you, then head & heart have to align to develop a strategy so that you achieve the outcome you want.  Otherwise you might just play right into her hands one last time & permanently toxify your future relations with your father & your other family members.

Is it possible to work 'with' your father on this, thereby establishing your own position of supporting him (regardless of the actual outcome with her at the time of communicating)?

Is it possible that you could enlist his support, considering he seems to want & need your support, & he also seems to want & need you to communicate with her?

Is it possible for you to talk openly with him and discuss with him that you want to support him, & would like to do what he wants & needs, but you need his help & support in return.

Is it possible that you could agree with him to talk her, but for only an agreed time limit?

Is it possible that you could also suggest topic restrictions?

Regardless of what boundaries you eventually decided to put in place it would surely show your good faith to all concerned. Also it could establish your genuine position of being a supporter of him at such a critical time in his life (and even hers).

It's easy to catastrophize outcomes.  But would it necessarily be a bad one...eventually? It may eventually assist in some real & healthy closure for you. It may also disable that possible future demon called 'self-recrimination', and the dreaded 'if only' monster that likes to punish us for our choices or inaction. It may also act as the beginnings of a healing balm for you with the rest of your family.

Thinking about your father, at what may very well be the saddest time in life, I can understand him seeking support from all of his children. He is facing a dreaded reality. He is soon to lose his life partner. To him she is wife, supporter, the mother of his children & the person he seems to have leaned very heavily on for guidance, albeit misguided in relation to you. He must be feeling vulnerable & devastated. How important it is to him to see you communicate with her is one consideration that feeds into another consideration. How important is it to you to try to have a decent future relationship with him? The answer to that question seems quite vital in determining which way you go, and what strategy you develop.

If that consideration is of a high priority to you then is it possisble that you could strategize with your therapist, and then perhaps your father, to achieve an outcome which you don't believe violates your boundaries, self-respect or vital 'self'? Inaction, too, is a strategy with real outcomes.


My thoughts are with you JustKathy at this very difficult time,


Lizzie20   

[Hopalong]

Wow, Lizzie.

That was a very savvy and smart way to look at it, imo.

I sure could use a life coach, you free? 

Hops

[lighter]

lizzie:

I really enjoyed your post.

How refreshing to think about strategy and what we want to accomplish...

not focus on the negative aspects of a situation we can't control.

That makes complete sense to me. 

It seems Kathy has to choose between self protection....

and the chance her father will stop being such a putz.

Mo2

[Ami]

Dear(( Kathy )))                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   I am just reading your thread. Boy, I needed a few soul sisters,tonight. I was feeling alone and like the whole world had good mothers but me.
 I wrote to Alice Miller. She published the letter about my M's abuse with a wonderful note to me. She said I could heal IF I could face the truth . I needed to see JUST how horrible my M . The degree to which I could would be the degree to which I could heal.
 Alice Miller brings wisdom and insight on how to heal from our type of M's.
 They made us feel as if we were the bad ones and we hated ourselves. The tables have to turn completely. This is very hard b/c then you see you are motherless. I am in the process,but not done with it.
 It is awful, so painful.
 Love to you, Kathy and everyone whose NM hurt them .        Ami

[JustKathy]

Wow, Lizzie, that was quite a post indeed. There is a LOT there for me to think about. I will definitely read it several times over to be sure that I've absorbed it all.

I AM trying to consider my future with the family. I will have a few years now to reconnect with some family members (some elderly Aunts and Uncles) who I have been kept away from for years due to M’s manipulations. I wasn't expecting to have that opportunity.

It’s pretty much impossible for me to have an adult conversation with my father. His coping mechanism has been to behave like Dustin Hoffman in Rain Man. You try to start a serious conversation, and he’ll interrupt with “I get my coffee at Kmart.” If I didn’t know better I’d say he was “simple,” but he’s not. He held down a high-paying job as a videotape editor for one of the big three networks, and even won an Emmy. He knows what’s up. He just doesn’t know how to cope with anything. When something serious comes up . . . “bla bla bla bla Kmart is good.” It’s like dealing with a child.

So I can work with him, but in a limited capacity. There won’t be any serious discussions because he isn’t capable. What I can do is help with simple requests, like his asking me to send M a card, which hubby and I did do.

Dad called today and thanked us profusely for sending the card. Went on and on about how much it meant to M, how it lifted her spirits to hear from her daughter, how happy it made her, how much she loved it, yada yada. Yet M wouldn’t come to the phone to thank me herself. He had to thank me on her behalf.

What I got out of that call was not that M was happy to have received the card (she probably set fire to it as soon as he left the room), but that HE was happy we sent it. So for now, if I can keep him happy with small gestures that don’t hurt me, I’m okay there. We’ll just have to see what happens in the future.

There’s another issue that he has to contend with, and that's the N that my brother married, who my father referred to today as “the witch.” That really threw me, as he's not one to badmouth ANYBODY. So my guess is N SIL is probably already starting to make her move, finding ways to get her hands on M’s personal effects, etc. So my father is going to have to decide how to deal with her as well. M created this situation by giving SIL a free pass to mistreat everyone in the family, something she did to make my brother (the golden child) happy. That’s one he is going to have to deal with on his own. SIL is dangerous, has threatened and stalked me online, so I’m not stepping into that one, for my own safety. My father has a real mess on his hands, but there’s only so much I can do.

I honestly have NO idea what direction things will take, what will happen to the family dynamic, and so on. I think I’m going to have to take this day by day.

Ami, thank you for your kind words as well. I’m not familiar with Alice Miller, but will google her. And hugs back at ya. You are most certainly NOT the only one who drew a short straw when it came to mothers.

[lizzie20]

Hello JustKathy,

Just one more post to your topic.

It’s pretty much impossible for me to have an adult conversation with my father. His coping mechanism has been to behave like Dustin Hoffman in Rain Man. You try to start a serious conversation, and he’ll interrupt with “I get my coffee at Kmart.” If I didn’t know better I’d say he was “simple,” but he’s not. He held down a high-paying job as a videotape editor for one of the big three networks, and even won an Emmy. He knows what’s up. He just doesn’t know how to cope with anything. When something serious comes up . . . “bla bla bla bla Kmart is good.” It’s like dealing with a child.

So I can work with him, but in a limited capacity. There won’t be any serious discussions because he isn’t capable. What I can do is help with simple requests, like his asking me to send M a card, which hubby and I did do.

I wonder if your father has used 'voicelessness' as an avoidance technique for so long, and especially in relating to your mother, that now it has taken on a life of its own & become an ingrained habit?

I can see much merit in your strategy of "I'm going to have take this day by day". Ultimately, it's probably all any of us can do.

Wishing you success,

Lizzie20





   

[Ami]

Dear Kathy
 Just re-read your post about your therapist. One danger of therapy,IME,is when we take the therapists opinion above our own gut .I could hear you struggling with this.
 For me, being voiceless meant pushing away my gut reality. Alice Miller says that if we honor our guts ,we will heal. I have been trying to do this.It is  opposite  to honoring authority(parents, therapists, society etc) over ourselves.
 My F is like yours. He was a successful businessman but  mute with my NM. Sometimes, he would stand up for himself but never for us.
 Keep your chin up. You are doing great with a very hard situation.    Love and Hugs,   Ami
 

[JustKathy]

Ami, you are SO right about therapy. My therapist can offer great advice, but sometimes it DOES conflict with my gut instincts. One side of me wants to believe that the therapist is a trained professional (authority figure) who knows what is best, but in my heart I know that's not entirely true. She hasn't been walking in my shoes for the past 40 years. Her advice may be good, but not necessarily the best advice for ME.

So yes, I am feeling conflicted here and trying to tell myself that I have to do what I know is best for me. I'm the one who will have live with my decisions for the rest of my life. I really appreciate your post. It makes the struggle much easier for me when I hear another person say, "follow your gut."

Kathy

[Ami]

Dear Kathy,
 I am in a similar position about trusting my gut. It is heartwrenching b/c I have so much fear and lack of trust in myself. Alice Miller says to take small steps in trusting your gut and it will snowball until one day you are emotionally healthy. I sure hope so!     Love to you, Ami