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I am so fortunate

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Alan:
Thanks for the sentiment.  I feel renewed.  Things really crashed about 7 weeks ago, and now I feel close the old "Al"  When I divorced the first time, I cried and cried.  Then I cried and cried again over 2 break ups with a different person.  So, I don't "bury" emotions.  Over this break up, I have felt bad, devestated for a while, empty, etc., but I cried a total of 10 seconds, because once "you know the secret", do your work, and be smart about it, I know I had no control and I married an sick sick person.

Nic:
Welcome Alan,
If you look back at my posts from the past several months, you'll be able to piece together my story without my having to introduce myself and all my baggage at this time!
I want to say WELCOME! Like you, i stumbled on to this board after years of wondering what the missing link was.  I had gone to therapy, I understood everything and was cleansed of everything except for voicelessness.  Although often brought on by being caught in the web of Ns, many other situations can rob us of our voices, and from early on.
I was particularly interested in your post because my mother and father are both Ns..my mother was/is an alcoholic and I grew up with this.  I'm now forty..( btw. I'll be starting a new thread soon because whenever anyone has revealed his age here it seems to be in the forties (40s) something I find fascinating and that has alot to do with that particular stage of development and is requiring and begging for discussion!  :) )
I read how you describe your ex as preoccupied with her looks, abused sexually as a child, wanting to be the center of attention etc. , you were describing my mother.  
I've broken off relations with my adopted N family ( read up on this from my posts at will) but I've begun to study them.  Almost as if they were specimens under the microscope. I study me in relation to them whereas before it was the other way 'round.  In an effort to gauge where I am at in this whole sordide affair.
You sound absolutely raptured by your discovery of Narcissism, like I was, and then voicelessness.  I was sooo happy to come to this board because it felt very REAL to me.
Everything that everybody writes here is of significance and has been indispensable to my recovery.  I'm always mindful that I have survived the Ns in my life, I don't see myself as a victim.  In fact, i swam around the victim pond too long, until I became a volunteer actually.  I'm now proud to have survived and to be surviving these poor sick people.  As my wife says, they are very unhappy N people, just stuck there looking at themselves, perpetually in orbit around their own planet.
I feel lucky, very lucky not to have become trapped forever in their web.  Good for you for getting out, it's necessary, vital even. And I look forward to communicating with you via this board.
Kind regards,
Nic

Alan:
Nic, thanks for the good words.  I look forward to the 40s+ string.  It might be that by this stage in life, we have enough experiences and attained enough wisdom to truly express the emotions with understanding.  

I talked to the ex late last night.  The struggle for me was to keep cool, I can get intense and frustrated, causing me to start spinning out.  I will attempt to add more to this later.  I was up till 3am and up by 7am so I am gassed.

In short, I was a jerk to her and I loved it.  I stayed calm, spoke directly and calmly to her.  I listened to her thru the filters of knowing; I know the disorder, I know her techniques, I saw the little girl.  I stood my ground.  My belief is to "confront", either harshly or kindly, depending on whom I'm dealing with, empathy or confrontation.  There is nothing to lose, only to speak my truth.  I loved my wife, would do whatever was needed to learn and make a healthy relationship.

She tried to duck everything.  She followed her usual pattern (this has been confirmed by her brother):  First the impassioned lover, with all the other problems, then when it fails, she cleans up her act, takes charge, gets motivated, and dumps.  I said to her, mentioning the other times she has told me of this (I am fortunate, the more you talk the more I see what's in the shadows).  She might have to sell the house so she's been working to upgrade, with no mention to me.  I said, interesting, you did the same thing last time you went thru this, additction then clean up.  It's too bad we couldn't do this together.  No response at all.

(This is not part of this discussion, but I have to relate.  I asked her how much she spent on the materials for the upgrades, that I am responsible for at least half the cost [always try to take the high road, kids] she said it was no big deal, it's not like getting a contractor.  And she continued on. I asked a 2nd time, again she deflected.  She has contacted a mediation attorney, OK by me, easier and less expensive. I brought it back to the orig. question "how much did you spend". Again she defected the question.  I came back with "We can do this easy or hard.  If needed I will get my own attorney and we can hash it out that way.  It is up to you."  She immediated came back with silence, and in a little girl type of reponse said "OK, I'll get that information".  My interp was that she was told by an adult what to do, in no uncertain terms, and she will obey. What the hell did I get into?)

I pressed every button I could, I wanted to push her in a corner without getting loud and specific, just general concepts.  I can be a jerk but this is survival and sometimes anger is a good thing.  If you're messed up and working on it, I'm you're advocate.  If you're not working on it and you're jiving me, I will do whatever I have to.  I discovered years ago I am a truth seeker and an Emotional Warrior.  She tried to take that away. I got it back. (Just for the record, I've been in and out of therapy for the last 11 years, some visits just to check in or get some info, such as blended family questions.  And I dated a psychologist for 2 years.  We had great conversations and I learned alot.)

After reading the Hotchkiss book, I am more aware of "projection", her putting her s..t on me.  At the end of the conversation, after I said she missing out on the best relationship she will ever have a chance to have (my belief), she said to me "You've been running from it all your life".  That's the projection, she's been running away from herself and the truth since she was a kid.  But every eyeball that reads this knows the projections.  My retort to her was "you are in no position to tell me".  Then she said "Well, this conversation is over". I said "You got that right" and it ended.  I have to see her on Monday and pick up the rest of my things.

Unfortuately, another web site said basically this problem causes Ns to say the dumbest, stupidest things.  My ex has a history of it.

I did not ask what "it" is, I probably wouldn't get an answer anyway.  But, my hand to the universe, I have learned what "it" should be and have been searching for it for the last 10 years.  I am adaptable but there are generally accepted ground rules for relationships. For me it was Bradshaw, Hendrick, Dr Phil, Barbara DeAngelis, Marianne Williamson, my therapist, and a few others.  If you don't know something, go find the info.  My ex doesn't believe in this procedure.  Dumb. And dangerous.

I have more but I am fading out from a lack of sleep.  And I have my daughter this weekend.  Also, the Cubs are on in a few minutes.

I am proud of myself for standing up to her. I had this board in mind when I was talking.  I'll be glad to be a spear carrier for everyone, needed or not.  I might not have been cool with the button pressing, but, don't debate me.  If I can keep digging then so be it.  I just don't care with her anymore.  More later.  Thanks

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