Author Topic: helping my kids  (Read 2301 times)

mum

  • Guest
helping my kids
« on: January 13, 2005, 08:55:27 PM »
Hi.  I originally posted this on the other board, and "guest" suggested I put it here..thanks.
I am currently in a visitation struggle (finished mediation, on to court) with my ex  N or 8 years ago (no, he is still "N", our marriage is the ex part).  As a former victim of emotional abuse at his hands, I have done a lot of healing surprisingly  only recently during a huge amount of struggle in and out of courts regarding my potential relocation. Struggle usually precedes growth, and that is one of the best things I learned! I couldn't be more happy and content. Bless his little pea pickin' heart...as the Dali Lama says:" Thank your enemies!"
Back on track: I want to know how best to support my children who have no voice with thier father, and chose not to have one in court in the first go-round (can you blame them?).  They tell me how they feel all the time, and that may relieve them to some extent, but I am not heard as thier voice with thier dad, and I cannot be their voice in the courts (neither can he, though).  How can I best help them to help themselves? They are
ages 17 and 13.
I am certain they feel torn, and I acknowledge my part in that. I am also certain they will learn and find thier voice sometime, but if I can enlighten that path I will try.
 The older one is doing ok most likely because adulthood looms and this back and forth visitation awkwardness will not be an issue soon, but the younger one is putting up walls (like adolescence isn't hard enough, huh?) and balking at therapy (of any kind).
Any ideas? Thanks to all. Have an exceptional day.

bludie

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 139
helping my kids
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2005, 10:50:08 PM »
Are your children in counseling? If so, would it be possible to arrange three-way sessions to discuss coping strategies? If not, is it something you would consider? Sounds stressful and awful. I'm sorry you and your children are experiencing this but thanks for the Dalai Lama quote. Love it!
Best,

bludie

bludie

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 139
helping my kids
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2005, 10:51:19 PM »
Oops - you said they're balking at therapy. Are you involved with a church or some other support group?
Best,

bludie

Anonymous

  • Guest
helping my kids
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2005, 07:29:04 AM »
Hello, you say you’re certain they feel torn. What have they said or done to show this?

The younger one is putting up walls (does this mean being silent?), but that might not be a huge long-term problem. He/she might just need to think things through and not talk for a while. The solution there is to let him/her know that you are there and ready to listen when he/she wants to talk.

I understand you want to help them, but I’m not sure what with? They’re talking to you, which is great – so what do they say that indicates their problems? You say they don’t have a voice in court, but do they want one in court? Most children don’t and that’s healthy. They don’t want to have to say bad things about either parent and that needs to be appreciated and respected.

The most important thing is to keep listening to them and trying to help them find their own answers without imposing your solutions on them, tempting though that may be with everything you’ve had to cope with.

mum

  • Guest
thanks and answers
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2005, 12:44:13 PM »
Thanks for the replies.  It is hard to encapsulate all this, as there is a lot of "back story" and it's very complex.  My ex travels and is out of the country frequently, sometimes for 6-9 months at a time, in those cases, he comes back for a week or two, then leaves, or brings the kids to these locations to see him.  When he is in town, he alters our schedule to see them, at his home here.  When the parenting schedule is "normal" again he will have them at his house  every single weekend, plus another evening until after dinner.  I no longer allow a lot of altering, on behalf of the kids and myself and no doubt that adds to his anger.  
I also, as of this date, have lost my bid to relocate with the children.. it is still in the appeals process, and the "fat lady has yet to sing".  Yes, there is a lot of sad, sexist legal injustice here, but I've accepted that and am not angry anymore.  I won't leave my kids, and that is my bottom line and I am content with that choice.
Guest asked what the kids say that indicate there is a problem. Here is a sampling:
"why do we have to go to dad's for so long, it's his problem he left the country!"
"dad is always angry"
" If I tell dad I want to move, he will stop loving me"
"If I tell dad I would rather stay here this weekend, he will stop loving me"
"I have to hurry, dad is mad and in the car waiting and I have to get every piece of clothing on this list of that he ever gave me and bring it back to his house." (honk honk of the car horn)
" I don't care about going with dad on this trip and I am afraid he will be mad at me because I didn't tell you about it (and made other plans for myself)"
this list could go on and on:
my responses are supportive of thier feelings, marked with encouragement about dad truly loving them,  etc, etc. I have also encouraged them to not take on other's pain, even mine, and to notice when that happens (dad unreasonably getting angry over a toothbrush left at a friend's house....my daughter noticed that was more about some issue he may be having than her being inadequate...good for her!).
Yes, I have contemplated that they may tell me what they think I want to hear, and I do my best to encourage them not to do that, I don't need it (more importantly, I do my best to demonstrate that).  They also share with me fun things that dad does with them, happy experiences they have with him as well.
To answer another question, the reason I feel they (particularly my younger one) wants a voice in court, is the recurring statement:"I want to tell someone how I feel about always HAVING to go to dad's so much without having to tell dad to his face."  She has expressed dissapointment that I have not found this opportunity for her yet, but the courts move soooo slow, and there has yet to be an independent evaluator assigned to speak to the kids about this.
The question about my younger one putting up walls is exactly as you suspected: silence.  (marked with an occassional negative almost under the breath comment about dad or this situation ). Thanks for encouraging me to respect this.
Someone else suggested counseling.  I am in counseling. Both kids were in counseling last year, the older making a decision to take whatever happens and turn it to his advantage, and actually he was the one who gave me the cattle prod shock to get my own misery dealt with (thankfully).  The counselor gave up on my younger one, said no amount of therapy at that time would get her to talk.  Recently, she asked to go to another counselor, with the understanding that no one would push it.  She liked the counselor and was happy about going, but at this time, WILL NOT GO BACK, "you promised not to push me!"
Because there is an ongoing court case, "three way" counseling, which I assume to mean that I am there too, would probably not be an option, but I will ask my attorney about that.  I would be happy to go, even include my ex if possible, but my children absolutely do not wish to address the issue directly in front of dad.  He doesn't scare me anymore, but I think I know how they feel.
The comment/question about having support here led me to really look at that carefully. We do have support here,although the three of us have it in different sources, not all the same place, at least not overtly.  Where I wanted to relocate to, where my extended family is, the three of us have the same support and a huge amount of it.  Here, the children and I are more isolated, and I see  that speaks volumes for the N ex wanting us to stay here!
Anyway, thank you all for showing interest in a total stranger. It is always a sign of true joy in this world that so many want to share the light.
 
"

Anonymous

  • Guest
helping my kids
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2005, 09:10:39 AM »
Hi again. You do have a very difficult situation and you seem to be handling it pretty well. Good for you! Can I comment on what the kids say, maybe you've already thought/done these, but it's the best I can do right now...

"why do we have to go to dad's for so long, it's his problem he left the country!"

The 'why' is important. Why should kids be forced to do anything they really don't want to? Even if the court orders access, if the kid wants to go for 3 days instead of 4, why can't they? They have rights too and this type of thing could be arranged, but it involves getting them to think about what they do want and to stick to their decisions. To make their own choices (which you will probably have to fight for too, once they have chosen). At the end of the day, I don't think a court can force a child to see a parent if they don't want to. But of course they have to tell their Dad the news and I can see that wouldn't be easy.

"dad is always angry"
I guess the answer here is yes, isn't it sad for him? But he's not angry with you, is he?

" If I tell dad I want to move, he will stop loving me"
Do you really want to move? Not because of me or Dad, but what do you want for yourself? What are the good things about moving and the bad things....? (Is this blackmail by dad or does the child not want to move but can't tell you because then you won't love them?!)

"If I tell dad I would rather stay here this weekend, he will stop loving me"
Do you want to stay here this weekend? If so tell Dad. He won't stop loving you. He might be angry and upset but that doesn't mean he doesn't love you. And no-one died from being angry or upset. Sometimes we have to take a risk and say what we want. You know you're not upsetting Dad on purpose. Maybe he will learn to respect what you want? Sometimes we have to take risks and upset people. It's part of life and it's not a bad thing to do.

"I have to hurry, dad is mad and in the car waiting and I have to get every piece of clothing on this list of that he ever gave me and bring it back to his house." (honk honk of the car horn)

I'm tempted to say you might want to intervene here! Put the clothes in the washing machine and go and tell Dad yourself that his request cannot be fulfilled and it's your actions that result in this. His requests are quite unreasonable and wouldn't stand up in court, I think. It might do the kids good to see you standing up to him too. See that not everyone simply bends to his will, without involving them in that particular conflict. Lead by example?

Anonymous

  • Guest
helping my kids
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2005, 09:24:30 AM »
just another thought: being 13 and female is a strange enough time anyway. It might be that she's also realising/grappling with the thoughts  that Dad isn't a perfect parent and that actually he's quite flawed:

Quote
(dad unreasonably getting angry over a toothbrush left at a friend's house....my daughter noticed that was more about some issue he may be having than her being inadequate...good for her!

which is a lot for a youngster to process. It's tough to realise that your parents are imperfect, not always right and don't know everything. Tough because you realise that you can only really depend on yourself in life (for what you think and how you see life). But if she's thinking this stuff and handling it okay - she's becoming a rounded, responsible person. Which is probably good!

Anonymous

  • Guest
helping my kids
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2005, 09:24:35 AM »
Quote
Here, the children and I are more isolated, and I see that speaks volumes for the N ex wanting us to stay here!
I think a lot of Ns do this by design. Isolation was true in my case and this is when things really slid downhill; not only in the relationship but for me emotionally, too. Hope you'll sustain as much support possible given your relocation-constraints.

Sounds like you're doing a wonderful job of validating your childrens' feelings while not villifying your ex-N. That's so important and often  difficult to do. My daughter has offered a lot of negative comments about my ex-N and I am walking the same fine line. He was not her father but, nonetheless, she did form an emotional attachment. I don't want to encourage 'man-hating' behavior as I found myself there after several failed relationships in my late teens and early 20s. This black-and-white thinking usually stems progress or recovery.

From what you relate all in all, mum, you're doing well in maintaining balance amid these challenges. Good luck to you and keep us posted.

Best,

bludie

Anonymous

  • Guest
Re: thanks and answers
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2005, 10:50:51 AM »
Hi mum.

You're doing a great job with all the pressure, stress and frustration.

why do we have to go to dad's for so long, it's his problem he left the country!

The child knows why they have to do it (legal system makes them), so that isn't the real question. The real question is, "How can I manage my frustration, anger, and rage that I'm being forced to make Dad feel good?" My answer would be, "It is unfair and I wish you didn't have to. I'm frustrated about it, too."


dad is always angry

"What do you guys do when he's angry?" Note, I'm keeping emphasis on managing the sitation, not talking about dad's anger, which we can't change.


If I tell dad I want to move, he will stop loving me

"No, that doesn't make people stop loving each other. It does hurt their feelings, though. But he's an adult and adults can get over that."


If I tell dad I would rather stay here this weekend, he will stop loving me

ditto as above.


I have to hurry, dad is mad and in the car waiting and I have to get every piece of clothing on this list of that he ever gave me and bring it back to his house." (honk honk of the car horn)

"Is there anything I can do to help?"


I don't care about going with dad on this trip and I am afraid he will be mad at me because I didn't tell you about it (and made other plans for myself)

I can't follow who made the plans for themselves here.

Peronally, I wouldn't tell them their dad truly loves them when they're telling you something else. I'd say their dad loves them the best way he can with his problems.

bunny

Anonymous

  • Guest
helping my kids
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2005, 11:24:15 AM »
Gosh is this true bunny?

Quote
The child knows why they have to do it (legal system makes them),


When I was 13 and didn't want to do what my divorced parent wanted me to do, I told them so and didn't always do it. Children have rights too (few I know, in legal reality). It works like this: "Sorry, I'm going to my best friend's birthday party this weekend so I won't be coming to see you."

Surely the court order for access is for the child's benefit, not the parent's and if the child has wants too, they are catered for by plain and simple adult negotiation. If a child's wants are ignored, they may decide to 'escape' from their situation in other ways to their detriment.

bunny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 713
helping my kids
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2005, 11:42:22 AM »
Quote from: Anonymous
Gosh is this true bunny?

Quote
The child knows why they have to do it (legal system makes them),


When I was 13 and didn't want to do what my divorced parent wanted me to do, I told them so and didn't always do it. Children have rights too (few I know, in legal reality). It works like this: "Sorry, I'm going to my best friend's birthday party this weekend so I won't be coming to see you."

Surely the court order for access is for the child's benefit, not the parent's and if the child has wants too, they are catered for by plain and simple adult negotiation. If a child's wants are ignored, they may decide to 'escape' from their situation in other ways to their detriment.


I meant: the child is not really asking "Why" they are being made to do something. They know the rationale. I wasn't referring to the ways they could possibly get out of it. And I hope they do find ways to get out of it.

bunny

Anonymous

  • Guest
helping my kids
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2005, 11:59:22 AM »
bunny, thanks for explaining. I hope they do too!