If motherly mirroring was never recieved...

[polymath]

I just read about what happens if the mother, or other primary caregiver, isn't 'there' for the newborn. If the child doesn't receive that message from the first adult it bonds with that he/she is OK just as they are, problems are all but gauranteed. I see this as the root and primary cause of all the 'disorders' the theraputic community has come up with.

Personally this is spot on. Having no adult in my young life that looked at me like I mattered caused me to grow up feeling invisible and insatiably hungering for attention and recognition, first from my FOO then the rest of humanity that I come in contact with. I remember at age 4, telling a kid in the lunch line I went to McDonalds the night before to impress them, even though it was a lie. My whole life has been one 37 year search for attention. Well the tank is about empty.

I have been emailing all the psychologists, PHD's, therapists I can find, looking for an example of this being turned around. My self focus, attention to my own activities, tunnel vision, defensiviness, aloofness, paranoia, etc. has just about got the better of me.

I know I sound like a broken record (thats what I am) but does anyone have any direction on where to go with this?

[lighter]

Polymath:

I think your distress is a good indicator you'll find some measure of healing.

It's what motivates us to look outside ourselves, find healthier coping mechanisms and release the destructive.

It's slow going..... this replacement of old with new. 

That's where you are, and your path is different than everyone else's.

I will say this...... I believe that walking through the fire is so difficult/painful/terrifying.....

very few face it.

That's what the journey is..... pain and overcoming that pain, IMO.

Giving up habits that won't bring serenity.

Giving up the hope that they will.

Adopting habits that are foreign and uncomfortable.

Somebody else's journey won't bring you serenity.

Being in your own skin.....

facing all the writhing and discomfort and terror within......

will, if you can stick with it, IMO.

You can't intellectualize yourself out of it.

You have to be "be here, now"  and listen to what the pain is telling you..... that's very difficult to do.

Most of our lives are spent going from one distraction to another, in order avoid pain.

Working through it, brings healing, IMO.

Sorry there's no better answer I could give you.

Polymath, I'm curiouse bc you seem very intelligent and focused.....

if you were giving advice to someone in your shoes.....

what would you tell them?

Mo2

[polymath]

Honestly, Mo2, my advice at this point would be acceptance and understanding of one's condition. Acceptance that some lives are born accidentally to parents that didn't have the needed tools given to them to anywhere close to properly raise a child. Just like diabetes, schizophrenia, some other debilitating physical or mental condition, my issue is untreatable. Its just your lot in life so accept and manage it because there is no cure. Realize that some people were born Jewish in Nazi Germany, or war-related gang rape in Africa, some to drug-addicted prostitution in Holland, etc, etc, etc,. That no one really 'knows' why these things happen, they just do. No one 'knows' the true nature and reasoning, or existence, of our creator. That we are all brought into this world the same way, through the birth canal, and some came through the tunnel into the recieving arms of people that were ready willing and able to recieve them and show them the way, some were not. Period.

Boy, I could go on and on and on but I think you probably get it.

RS

[Ami]

I just read about what happens if the mother, or other primary caregiver, isn't 'there' for the newborn. If the child doesn't receive that message from the first adult it bonds with that he/she is OK just as they are, problems are all but gauranteed. I see this as the root and primary cause of all the 'disorders' the theraputic community has come up with.

Personally this is spot on. Having no adult in my young life that looked at me like I mattered caused me to grow up feeling invisible and insatiably hungering for attention and recognition, first from my FOO then the rest of humanity that I come in contact with. I remember at age 4, telling a kid in the lunch line I went to McDonalds the night before to impress them, even though it was a lie. My whole life has been one 37 year search for attention. Well the tank is about empty.

I have been emailing all the psychologists, PHD's, therapists I can find, looking for an example of this being turned around. My self focus, attention to my own activities, tunnel vision, defensiviness, aloofness, paranoia, etc. has just about got the better of me.

I know I sound like a broken record (thats what I am) but does anyone have any direction on where to go with this?

You are NOT a broken record! RS, you are an intelligent, insightful guy looking for a way out. I know it is hard for a man to show "weakness". I am lucky I was born a woman  .                   Ami

[Ami]

Seriously, RS, I have come to the same conclusion you have . Mirroring is where it is at.  I have found  that it is NOT hopeless.
 *I* am getting mirrored.
 The Enlightened Witness IS the  mirror . That is what Alice  Miller means .
 Trust your heart  to lead you .Trust that you will find people to walk beside you. Trust that you will find people to mirror you !     
            Ami

[lighter]

Yes, Polymath.

Some people are born to very bad parents and worse.

I'm sorry that happened to you for you surely deserved loving healthy parents.

They just couldn't do any better.

Mo2

[polymath]

They just couldn't do any better.

That about sums it up. When/if a person really can internalize that FACT, only can healing possibly begin.

[sKePTiKal]

Polymath: what you're looking for is "attachment disorders". We have discussed this a lot - and recently - here. You could search attachment. And check out the Neglectful Silence topic thread; it's long... and I have deleted a lot of my posts there... but there is still plenty of helpful insight and info. The thread was started by Certain Hope. Somewhere in there, I've posted a link to Daniel Schore's work on Attachment. It is immensely helpful for understanding the neuroscience behind our emotional reflexes surrounding attachment issues.

I would say that there is hope for healing; been working through my own abandonment/attachment issues too... and wow. It IS possible to heal those kinds of "original self wounds". Now, understand - there's no "quick fix" for it. There is a lot of re-visiting issues from different perspectives. And sometimes, it's even hard to know that one is "better". A good therapist, I think, to act as a guide (and encouragement, mirroring, reassurance) in the beginning, is most helpful. No one but you can fix you - you have to walk the path yourself - the T is there simply to point things out that you might be overlooking... to help you understand you.

Yes, there is a certain amount of acceptance and "this is just the way it is"-ness to attachment issues. But understand, you don't have to resign yourself to being permanently "broken" and merely find some way to "cope" with life with some sort of emotional disability. It is possible to repair the damage of the original wound and become whole... even if you've not experienced that before.

Off topic: I think I owe you an apology on the gender topic. I've come to the conclusion that gender stereotypes and the social expectations about how each gender interacts with the world emotionally IS different and that there are double-standards inherent in those social expectations for both males & females... though I would posit that both sexes feel pretty much the same things. It could be, too, that the healing paths are also slightly different. I'd be interested in yours - and how that might differ - if you could stick around here and keep on posting, as you go your own healing.

The example I can share is of anger. A male coworker can react with the same level of anger, in the same way as I do. However, when I have that reaction, I'm accused of responding "too strongly"... or coming on to strong, emotionally. In other words, I have been told that my anger - and the intensity of it - is inappropriate to the situation. So, why is it OK for my male coworker to behave exactly the same; be that angry? And why is anger off-limits for females in exactly the same situation?

Reverse it. Why is it OK for women to cry at a very sad movie? But not men? It's like society is saying that men don't feel (or shouldn't) grief, loss, sadness and pain... or empathy and nurturing... and women should be or express anger.

To deny any of the emotions is to cut off a part of ourselves - that NEVER feels good.

[Ami]

They just couldn't do any better.

That about sums it up. When/if a person really can internalize that FACT, only can healing possibly begin.

I think that is totally right, RS ,but many people try to get to that last step too soon and get it in "theory" only so don't truly heal.They are the people who have healing in the "head"(intellectualization) not in the heart(understanding , wisdom and humility).          Ami

[Gabben]

Personally this is spot on. Having no adult in my young life that looked at me like I mattered caused me to grow up feeling invisible and insatiably hungering for attention and recognition, first from my FOO then the rest of humanity that I come in contact with. I remember at age 4, telling a kid in the lunch line I went to McDonald's the night before to impress them, even though it was a lie. My whole life has been one 37 year search for attention. Well the tank is about empty.


I know I sound like a broken record (thats what I am) but does anyone have any direction on where to go with this?

Polymath,

How wonderful, however distressing and painful I understand, that you have awaken to your truth of losses of love in life and that you have the courage to share this and see the truths. Some people never reach this place; something is happening in your soul, you are coming back to life.

I too was not mirrored enough as a child.  I awoke from my image of perfection over 20 years ago. I recall those first few years were tough, especially the first few months after I was able to see that my life was built on lies, I had no idea who I was and what was inside of me. That first year I cried many tears of memories of loss from my childhood as well as "just hurts" of loss of recognition, which is so much of what we children who did not get that mirroring affection needed in order to develop a healthy core to our being.

When I first awoke to reality facing my lost and lying self I did not even know what my favorite color or food was, I had been so conformed to fit my mom's mold to gain her love and approval, or at times to just not have her reject me, that I had lost my heart, I had no idea who I was and what I wanted in life. My life was about caring for my face....with every breath and thought in my being came the fear "if you really knew who I was you would run in terror, please see that I am OK, please don't stop buying my face."

12 step recovery has helped me a lot. There are many in AA or other 12 step groups who would know exactly where you are at. ACA -- Adult Children of Alcoholics or even Alanon are place were even if you were not raised by an alcoholic you would be able to relate to others stories of childhood dysfunction as well as find additional support from peers who too have taken that step to awaken to the lost child within. One of the aspects of 12 step recovery is the risking to be real before others; people share their hearts and real faces, their inner struggles. It is a place to not receive recognition but rather get the understanding and healing from the lack of recognition that we never received, hopefully.

There are a couple of books that have helped me over the years, one is Healing The Child Within. Discovery and Recovery for Adult Children of Dysfunctional Families. Another book is Legacy of the Heart The Spiritual Advantages of a Painful Childhood.

12 Step programs have a spirituality about them, actually that is the main focus or our center towards approaching healing around our past; knowing that there is a Higher Power and that we are not it. We like to play God which leads to dysfunction, trying to control life, dictating our demands onto life. The best approach I found in healing my core and getting to know myself, overcoming guilt so on and so forth was to just surrender all of myself: ideas, desires, ambitions etc. to the idea of a caring and compassionate Higher Power that made me and knows me better than myself, wanting my best interest and to heal me. It is about blind faith and courage.

Hope this helps.

Lise

Here are a few articles that may help, if not, then compost:

http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/adult/a/aa073097.htm

http://www.childrenofhoarders.com/coh10.php

[polymath]

Reverse it. Why is it OK for women to cry at a very sad movie? But not men? It's like society is saying that men don't feel (or shouldn't) grief, loss, sadness and pain... or empathy and nurturing... and women should be or express anger.

I think men and women feel the emotional response the same, it just presents itself differently. Women are more into relationships and hence what people think of them while men are just more task oriented. We just aren't wired to 'care' as much as women, but more to get it done, go kill something, bring it back, yadda yadda.

[polymath]

Polymath: what you're looking for is "attachment disorders". We have discussed this a lot - and recently - here. You could search attachment. And check out the Neglectful Silence topic thread; it's long... and I have deleted a lot of my posts there... but there is still plenty of helpful insight and info. The thread was started by Certain Hope. Somewhere in there, I've posted a link to Daniel Schore's work on Attachment. It is immensely helpful for understanding the neuroscience behind our emotional reflexes surrounding attachment issues.

That last post was just my impulsive thought to the previous one

I hear you on the attachment and I will look into it. The deeper issue, and this is probably going to sound nuts, but a crazy awareness of my own body, like I'm turned inside out. Because I had no one to attach to very very early, its like I turned inward completely. The only place I'm comfortable at all is in the mirror (I can just imagine some of your thoughts when you read that). Its like when I very young baby is looking around for some big person to look back with that gaze that says, "yippee your here, lets have some fun!' I was met with anxiety and fear that this little guy was more than she can handle. Mom left dad before I was 2 and just became a hermit, just she and I in little apartments. SHe told me just yesterday, with lots of tears, she just didn't know her mother was mean to me while she was at work. I find this very hard to believe. The woman didnt change all of a sudden. Mom is always trying to pull things out to put it on someone else. Like saying she was always there for me to talk to and when I respond that she was there but would get emotional at the least little bit of independence I get blank looks or change of subject. Or some alcoholic gene of my father, blah blah. When all it was was her own fear she put into me.

The biggest outward expression of this now is seeing and feeling the speed at which normal conversation works, with facial expressions and body language, and not being able to keep up because I'm too busy in my own mind thinking about what I'm going to say and trying to read people fast enough to gauge when to jump in to bring the attention back to me. Its like its just not in me to recognize other's desire for the same thing. When I try to do it, it just comes out as 'sucking up'.

And here's the real difference I think between men and women. Men just don't care much about all the psychobabble. Maybe thats why I've had no problem getting women. I'm tune to that stuff like women like to talk about. But the male side would rather cut up, tell jokes, discuss work, sports etc. Maybe a little pyschobabble her and there but mostly not. That stuff I just didn't see and experience so half of me is just not there. There is a tape missing in my head and I'm just not sure if it can be put in there.

Whew,

RS

[polymath]

and, my gaze is always scanning for someone to see me like I'm invisible. Always looking for validation as to what I'm doing or worrying that someone is going to come along and but in telling me to do it differently.