Neglectful Silence (From Carolyn's Thread)

[Meh]

Re: JustKathy

I have this fantasy about Thanksgiving where I blurt out everything. Of course that would be an episode of me losing my dignity.

[bearwithme]

Oh yeah, and the family gathering thing, I get that, I really do. My mother would get really mad and mean and manipulative in order to get me to go to family gatherings. It frustrated me because she didn't really care about me, she cared that the event unfolded the way she demanded it to, with me going to the event and being polite, polite...oh

YES! I absolutely get that. Christmas was M's big day, and everyone was required to be there, OR ELSE. She didn't give a rat's patooey that I was there - she just wanted the event to go as planned, in order to impress others. Every Christmas was celebrated as it had been when we were children. The big tree with gifts stacked to the ceiling, the decorations, the whole family gathered around. And she would take videos, and send them to her siblings, to show them that she was a perfect mother, with a perfect family. "Look at me, my family adores me. They're all here celebrating with me." Then the next day, it was "pick up your stuff and leave."

She was producing a show for the benefit of others. When I finally pulled the plug and said that I was an adult in my forties, and would no longer act like a child on Christmas day, she went into a rage that was not to be believed. Now every year, we get gifts mailed to us, that contain nasty notes inside.  Once I stopped attending, she went to great lengths to ensure that I suffered on Christmas day. When we found out that she was terminally ill, the first thing my husband said was "no more nasty Christmas surprises."

OMG!  That's exactly what I posted above!  At the end of the day, N's are all the same!  Amazing.

[HeartofPilgrimage]

A friend of mine once observed that some people take pride in the so-called "Hallmark card Christmas." Then she said, "But in my family, our Christmases are more like the Far Side." (Then she and I laughed hysterically ...) I think that when you get to the point of being able to accept your "Far Side" Christmases, then you know you are part of a happy family! 'Cause your not so busy trying to make everybody look like they're "supposed to" and just enjoying them for what they are. Which of course depends on them actually being enjoyable, ha!

[Gabben]

Ny N mother's silence prevented me from growing up and developing into an adult in the manner that a child normally should. I had written about this in Amy's thread about feeling like a child. I still feel like a child. I think I always will.

Hi JustKathy,

When I was 17 I started attending AA meeting where I had met some other women who were about 5 to 10 years older than me, they knew my mom taking me under their wings and sheltering me. They eventually knicknamed me "little Lise" I always thought that the reason that they did this was because of my age, being one of the youngest people ever to enter the rooms of AA in my small county or because I was tiny physically. But later in life as I started to awaken to my N upbringing I realized that they were calling me "little Lise" because I was emotionally still a child.

Like you my mom did not help me through those young years, especially the teen years when I started my period and began to change. I had to research things about sex education and a woman's developing body through books and magazines. My mom forgot to teach me many things but I had an older sister who helped teach me what she learned from her friends mom's.

Even now, at 41, I still feel like a little girl, my self image is warped from all those years of emotional stunted growth. But, the more that I have been allowing myself the grief of never getting those emotional needs met, which at times feels like a burning pain of old festering wounds in my heart that just wants to scream and cry, the more I am beginning to feel a healthy, emotionally healthy adult's response to life, I can feel that mature response to life's daily struggles taking over the little child in me responses. There is hope, at least today.

[Gabben]

My Nmother neglected us in this emotional way just like you all had this experience.  But in front of people, she was different.  She put on and act that she was a superior mother. JustKathy mentioned about always being treated like a child.  My Nmother did this as well.  She preached to me all my adult life that I had to be a better family member as in to my aunts and uncles and cousins, that I had to partake in ALL activities and gatherings, I had to be by her side as that's "what all children do for their mothers."  Mind you, in my 20's and 30's I had my own life and jobs, etc., and I couldn't make all the family gatherings, and some I just didn't want to attend.  She would scream at me for hours that I was a "bad" child "bad daughter" and a "horrible family member" and she would scream "you were the ONLY ONE NOT THERE!!" She would say "you are my child  so you better act like one!"  What??  I would get soooo pissed when I would find out that only 2 out of 22 cousins and 3 aunts and uncles, out of 9, were at a particular gathering!  Over half my cousins were not there because they were either on drugs, drunk or nowhere to be found.  But I was the bad family member!  She just wanted to look good in front of everybody, "oh, see, my daughter looooooves me...we're the perfect mother and daughter!"

Hi Bear,

When I read this I almost wanted to cry. I could relate so much to screaming and yelling of Nmothers, the way they degrade you and expect you to just take it day in hour after hour. My mom used to tell me that I was bad too, it is still an introjection in my life but one that I can identify quickly and dismiss.

 

That was my first boundary establishing event.  The next phone call she made to me was sweet as pie, but I turned on her again and screamed all kinds of hateful things and kept raging on her.  I let it ALL OUT!! I told her I hated her and thought she was ugly.  I screamed that she was a b--tch and crazy, I screamed that I hated her and she was a useless piece of sh--, that I'm embarrassed to call her "mom," I screamed that she ruined my life..I said so many more things.  But I screamed so loud that my voice cracked and I was hoarse.  Well, she was stunned and started to cry like a baby! I kept screaming. She hung up on me. I called back and got her answering machine and I screamed into it until it beeped and cut me off.  I called back again and did the same thing.  I kept hitting redial and doing it until her recorder was full. I went manic. I screamed out all my pain into an answering machine.

My sister and I always call each other after we have adult interaction with my mom, although I am getting better, stronger, where I can handle phone conversations with her alone now. Nmoms bring out the worst in us.

I apologize for my rant here.  I feel I've hijacked your thread Gabben, forgive me please.

Hijacking allowed, I think that this is am important topic, I would not be surprised if you and others, that have written here about this, has not brought up or stirred up some real pain?

Lise



 


[/quote]

[Gabben]

I think that what you may be getting at is that we have a HUGE need for VALIDATION of our perspective?
We could not trust our own perceptions growing up, every thing became skewed and warped.

Yep. There is a huge need for validation of our perceptions and it takes to heal our wounded perceptions or the way that we approach the truth of reality. It has taken me a long time to not discount my gut and my views.

[Gabben]

She was producing a show for the benefit of others. When I finally pulled the plug and said that I was an adult in my forties, and would no longer act like a child on Christmas day, she went into a rage that was not to be believed. Now every year, we get gifts mailed to us, that contain nasty notes inside.  Once I stopped attending, she went to great lengths to ensure that I suffered on Christmas day. When we found out that she was terminally ill, the first thing my husband said was "no more nasty Christmas surprises."

I think that someone once started a Christmas thread here about the ways that N parents act out at the holidays, especially when we are adults and they can no longer control us the way that they used to.

My mom kicked us kids out of the house one Christmas morning throwing all the presents outside on to the lawn and street. We were all in tears just going through the rest of the day hoping it would be over soon. My dad, who at this time was divorced from my mom came to get us.

[bearwithme]

My mom kicked us kids out of the house one Christmas morning throwing all the presents outside on to the lawn and street. We were all in tears just going through the rest of the day hoping it would be over soon. My dad, who at this time was divorced from my mom came to get us.


Unbelievable.  Actually, it's not unbelievable considering how sick the N's are.  I am so sorry this happened to you Gabben. *sigh****

Christmas was always so weird for me and my brother as well.  My dad tried so hard to please my mom at christmas and she alway snubbed his gifts saying they were ugly or dumb.  One time I went Christmas shopping with my dad and he picked out a really nice outfit for my mom, he spend hours trying to put an outfit together for her and he would bounce ideas off me and we had so much fun.  This was the 70's so he picked out a really nice pair of polyester slacks, a head scarf, a fluffy blouse and a polyester blazer in navy blue...I'll never forget it, it was really cute with big buttons.  I was so excited for my mom to open that present to see her reaction.  I think all kids get really excited to see their parents open gifts too.  Well, you guessed it, my Nmother opened it and grimaced.  She had this fake smile on her face.  After my dad had left the room for something, she told me that it was cheap looking and my dad was an idiot for picking that out, etc.

I was really hurt.  I was hurt for my dad.  I don't really watch Dr. Phil but one time he had parent abusers on his show and I watched it.  Dr. Phil said that when one parent insults the other parent, in any way shape or form, in the presence of their own children, it changes that child forever.  The parent is actually insulting their child's DNA.  That child can not help his/her DNA so when the parent denigrates one, they denigrate all.  This almost always leads to self-esteem issues later in life.

I just found that interesting and IMHO, true!

Bear

[JustKathy]

Dr. Phil said that when one parent insults the other parent, in any way shape or form, in the presence of their own children, it changes that child forever.  The parent is actually insulting their child's DNA.  That child can not help his/her DNA so when the parent denigrates one, they denigrate all.  This almost always leads to self-esteem issues later in life.

OMG! My NM used to do that all the time. In fact, that's ALL she did. I don't remember her ever saying anything nice to my father in front of me. She criticized him for everything he did, just everything.

[Meh]

My mom kicked us kids out of the house one Christmas morning throwing all the presents outside on to the lawn and street. We were all in tears just going through the rest of the day hoping it would be over soon. My dad, who at this time was divorced from my mom came to get us.

Gosh, this is so sad for children to go through that. I can relate, I think this is the habitually "dumping" and "throwing away" that Nar-parents do.
I've had similar experiences. I'm not sure that I have even figured out all of my emotions associated with this action of being dumped. I personally have a complicated mix of emotions. I think it's really confusing to children.

There were mixed messages: "You must show up you brat! Now I'm going to kick you out! You must be good and polite! Now you are BAD!"

So confusing, poor children. It's impossible for young kids to make sense out of that stuff. That is why I'm still digesting it at my age.


My father was angry at my mother for years and years after their divorce and he had no one to talk about it with except for me. I had no choice as a child but to hear it and he would demand that I agree with him. I was 5-6 when they got divorced. He should not have put that on me. He should have gone to get counseling. He expected me to understand the situation as if I was an adult.