Judy's Story

[Ami]

Dear Judy,
 Responses to stories go on this side so I wanted to start thread on your story.It sounds like the constant pain of your M was  unbearable. The enema's were an over the top thing that must have pushed you  further to the brink . My M sexually abused me, too. I repressed it(had NO memory of it) until last year. Boy , that was a whopper to remember
We really have been through the wars with the person who was supposed to nurture us.
 I am  glad you are here, Judy.
 Welcome and I think you will find you are not alone .                            Warmly  Ami

[JudyK]

Dear Ami,
  Thank you so much for the warm welcome.  I still have difficulty processing the fact that my mother is an N.  She is a covert one, and an engulfing one.  To everyone but my baby sis and I, she is a wonderful person and mother.  So all those years, i thought it was ME, of course.  I call it my "clueless years", LOL. I was diagnosed with breast cancer 4 years ago.  My mother,s behavior seemed normal, for that situation, at first.  But then she compared my hair loss due to chemo to HER hair thinning, related to old age.  Told me she KNEW what it was like going thru chemo (she is 85, and never had cancer), and how LUCKY I am, because my hair grew back.  That was the pivotal for me, I knew there was something so toxic about her.  I kept asking myself, would I say such terrible things to MY kids.  Of course not. It is her MO, go along for awhile, all is good, then dropping terrible comments like that, always needing to stir the pot.  Really, I hate her.

[Gabben]

But then she compared my hair loss due to chemo to HER hair thinning, related to old age.  Told me she KNEW what it was like going thru chemo (she is 85, and never had cancer), and how LUCKY I am, because my hair grew back. 

Hi Judy,

Welcome, I have not had a chance to read your story, yet. But this line above really stood out to me as a defining characteristic of N's, they steal our suffering from us and make it their suffering, they outwardly compare themselves, but they are so wrong in this. At first I was thinking that this is the N's way of trying to show empathy, perhaps? But then I realized that they, the N's, do this because they are envious and greedy for sympathy and attention, therefore, any suffering of ours is taken by them and twisted even though we do not seek out sympathy or a twisted form of attention seeking from our pain and life struggles, as we usually are just dealing and coping to get well and live, the N's see our pain as their opportunity to exploit and get their needs met.

[JudyK]

Thanks Gabben, you are so wise. 

[seasons]

Judy, Welcome!

You must be so strong to be able to go through treatment for cancer and have an N mom at your side. ((hugs))

I can hear my N's saying the same thing, word for word. How can they be so much alike? It really astonishes me everytime I hear the toxicity of others relationships

 with their N's. Thanks for sharing, it is affirming to know they do say these things and I'M NOT GOING CRAZY.

Great to have you here. Best wishes, seasons

[Ami]

Dear Ami,
  Thank you so much for the warm welcome.  I still have difficulty processing the fact that my mother is an N.  She is a covert one, and an engulfing one.  To everyone but my baby sis and I, she is a wonderful person and mother.  So all those years, i thought it was ME, of course.  I call it my "clueless years", LOL. I was diagnosed with breast cancer 4 years ago.  My mother,s behavior seemed normal, for that situation, at first.  But then she compared my hair loss due to chemo to HER hair thinning, related to old age.  Told me she KNEW what it was like going thru chemo (she is 85, and never had cancer), and how LUCKY I am, because my hair grew back.  That was the pivotal for me, I knew there was something so toxic about her.  I kept asking myself, would I say such terrible things to MY kids.  Of course not. It is her MO, go along for awhile, all is good, then dropping terrible comments like that, always needing to stir the pot.  Really, I hate her.

Dear Judy
 It is HORRIBLE what you wrote but I have to laugh b/c I can see my M doing just the same thing and she HAS. We should write a thread with things the NM has said.
  We understand each other on the Board b/c we have been through the same war                               Ami



PS Mine goes "good" for a while and then drops a nuclear on me.

[Hopalong]

I was thinking that this is the N's way of trying to show empathy, perhaps? But then I realized that they, the N's, do this because they are envious and greedy for sympathy and attention, therefore, any suffering of ours is taken by them and twisted even though we do not seek out sympathy or a twisted form of attention seeking from our pain and life struggles, as we usually are just dealing and coping to get well and live, the N's see our pain as their opportunity to exploit and get their needs met.

Hi Lise,
I always get tangled up over this. With my mother, sometimes I did think it was her way of trying to show empathy...but it reminded me of the blind sucking action of some kind of deepwater fish or an amoeba or weird squiddy thing.

and I do agree they take/borrow/appropriate others' emotions to substitute for their lack of them.

What I can't sort out is whether they exploit, intentionally, or whether their behavior is as automated as a heatseeking missile. In my brother's case, his malice toward me and desire to destroy me is obvious. With my mother, it wasn't always...sometimes I thought she was just parroting a language she could hear and repeat like a mimic, but without understanding.

I guess all Ns are different from each other in various degrees and ways...and then there are the sociopathic Ns...

sigh.

It's so tiring.

xo
Hops

[Ales2]

JudyK - When you say covert, could you elaborate?  I was always the goodie -daughter never rebelled at all. I knew there was something not right w/ my NM but never understood until I got to be around 40 and had never had a serious relationship. It was around this time that I discovered she was N and how her problem had affected my dating life, work, friendships, and self image. I also have a similar problem - everyone around her thinks she is great mother and I'd get no support if I told them she's a N.  They (friends,family)  would also tell me my life results are now my fault and she bears no responsibility.  Is this similar to your experience?  Alesia

[HeartofPilgrimage]

Ales2 (and Judy too!),

I just wanted to say that what you are describing is very similar to my own experience. In a way, this kind of N mother is more insidious than the outright nasty, abusive kind ... because it takes SUCH a long time to figure her out and to figure out why our relationships are so screwed up. In my case, my dad was much healthier (and also exerted a great deal of control over her --- I did not realize this or give him credit til he was dead, but she apparently was more than a little in awe of him, he could make her feel ashamed of herself) ... so, I went through life able to make friends with men (and able to get in a good, healthy marriage) but I am in my mid forties now and am just now able to make friends with women. For awhile (this sounds weird, but bear with me), I would get so nervous around women that I even asked myself if I could be nervous because I was unconsciously a lesbian, and was feeling sexual attraction. I mean, I just could not understand why getting emotionally close to women made me so nervous. Now I know it was because every time a woman was kind and understanding to me, I would brace for the knife in the gut that I expected would come next. With my own mother, every praise was followed by a qualification (you're great help around the house, WHEN YOU WANT TO BE ... etc. etc. etc.), and every time of closeness was followed by criticism and hurt. The message the engulfing mother sends is "You are nothing without me, you cannot handle anything without me, I am indispensible to you, look how important and capable I am."

A big part of beginning the healing process was finding women friends that live far away from me, that I see intermittently and that I communicate with over the internet, cell phone, and other "distance" communication modes. I could let them into my heart gradually and at the pace that felt comfortable to me, yet because they didn't live close, my slow pace was OK, I didn't end up hurting their feelings either. I now can proudly say that I have 3 very good women friends, which I think is a record!

[JudyK]

 Hi, Ales2,
  I will try to elaborate on the "covert" thing.  As a child, growing up in the 50's, I was never beaten or called stupid by my NM.  Outside of the house, she was what seemed, a normal mom, caring concerned.  At home, however, a different story.  Her main goal in life was to keep up appearances.  The house was always spotless.  I seem to recall her cleaning ALL the time.  We too were always "spotless".  We had to be perfect, no exceptions.  But no one could possibly live up to those impossible expectations.

 I don't recall ever getting a compliment, only relentess criticism, my appearance, school work, my behavior (I am too shy, and everytime someone tries to talk to me, I look down at my feet, she would lament).  She needed us to be a certain way, HER way, so as to reflect perfection back to her, I believe.  Better we perform as little Stepford children, never to have an independent thought or opinion, if it did not agree with her.

We know that being N is a spectrum disorder, so my NM is not at the high end.  But she had been emotionally bankrupt concerning us, while we were children.  As adults, we did not escape her criticism.  I was well into my forties, and she would complain about my hair color.  Once, I had the family to my house for Thanksgiving (we had been transferred to Michigan for 5 years.  THAT is another story.  Whwn she found out we were moving, she had such a temper tantrum!)  My SIL , much older then I , told me she thought I had lost weight.  NM says, "Yes, because the LAST time I saw you, you looked BLOATED!" What loving mother says that to her daughter, especially in front of company?

I

[Ami]

Hi, Ales2,
  I will try to elaborate on the "covert" thing.  As a child, growing up in the 50's, I was never beaten or called stupid by my NM.  Outside of the house, she was what seemed, a normal mom, caring concerned.  At home, however, a different story.  Her main goal in life was to keep up appearances.  The house was always spotless.  I seem to recall her cleaning ALL the time.  We too were always "spotless".  We had to be perfect, no exceptions.  But no one could possibly live up to those impossible expectations.

 I don't recall ever getting a compliment, only relentess criticism, my appearance, school work, my behavior (I am too shy, and everytime someone tries to talk to me, I look down at my feet, she would lament).  She needed us to be a certain way, HER way, so as to reflect perfection back to her, I believe.  Better we perform as little Stepford children, never to have an independent thought or opinion, if it did not agree with her.

We know that being N is a spectrum disorder, so my NM is not at the high end.  But she had been emotionally bankrupt concerning us, while we were children.  As adults, we did not escape her criticism.  I was well into my forties, and she would complain about my hair color.  Once, I had the family to my house for Thanksgiving (we had been transferred to Michigan for 5 years.  THAT is another story.  Whwn she found out we were moving, she had such a temper tantrum!)  My SIL , much older then I , told me she thought I had lost weight.  NM says, "Yes, because the LAST time I saw you, you looked BLOATED!" What loving mother says that to her daughter, especially in front of company?

I

  Dear ((((Judy)))))
It is SO crazy. I am laughing when I hear what they say.  I have been there a million times but it was NOT funny at the time.
                        xxxoooo  Ami
     
 

[JudyK]

I am having problems with posting.  Do you actually run out of room on this forum, and can only post so much at a time?  

It was about this time, while living in Michigan, that I began to change towards my NM. Perhaps being 200 miles away from her, helped to break the spell?  I couldn't understand why I didn't want to see her, or have her even touch me. (NM became more "loving" as she aged, in the form of professing her love for us, and kisses/hugs.  Too little, too late.)  Of course, I thought these feelings were all MY fault, that something was wrong with ME.  Just like always.  It took going to therapy for cancer, many years later, to finally find out the truth.

In my life, there were no physical bruises, or black eyes, just profound emotional and psychological scars. And, like you, no one would EVER believe these things about my NM, except my baby sister.  Thank GOD for her.  We support one another.  My GC middle sister died in March, of lung cancer.  She died still denying anything was wrong in our home, while growing up.

[JudyK]

Ami,
  You are so right!  We have to laugh sometimes, it helps. NM's can say the DARNDEST things!!!! LOL