I'm 45 and loving it

[Onyx]

I was asked a question by a group member a while ago. I answered fairly quickly, but its kind of stuck in my mind.....I think I answered in haste and incorrectly! The question was something like 'Have you been able to successfully enter into a meaningful relationship having come out of one with a Narcissist?' I anwered 'Yes of course and I'm well past that relationship anyway!' Truth is, I'm not! I thought I was, but actually it still affects me even today!

Do I think that I'll settle down with a girl again.....probably not! Why.....because I know too much! I know that this is going to sound very conceited....but I do! But it's all of the wrong stuff! You see, the more I learned about what really was going on in that relationship after it was all over, the more I grew to understand how pointless it all was! So much so, I really don't think that there's much point in a close relationship. It's got to the point that I avoid them like the plague!

All of that manipulation and power struggle thingy that goes on in one, well it's just about enough to drive you crazy in the first place! I look at a girl, I smile, I laugh, I nod and of course we exchange lovely words together....but more often than not, I can't wait to relax on my own and in my own space! That dependent need to be in a relationship with a member of the opposite sex has been completely removed.....save for fun, companionship and of course, sex! I am only able to keep things very light in a relationship, nothing else!

Of course the relationship with my ex N has had a major influence upon this behaviour. Sure it bent my head so to speak! But it was only after this relationship, only after what I'd been through, that I started to even question why the hell I'd put up with it in the first place! And that's when I came up with the conclussion that had been staring me in the face all along! I was trying to make something work that was broken! And if it's broken....go buy another, forget fixing it!

So everytime that I find myself talking with a girl.....I'm really interviewing her for christs sake!!! What's been her relationship history....why did that relationship end...etc! I've really performed the interview down to an art form! She has absolutely no idea that I'm really logging everything down that she says! I'm not interested about how many times she's had sex or even anything like that. I'm justing seeing learning about how selfish or demanding she could be in a relationship!

So it's now got to the point that I've all but given up! I'm in my forties and date women around my age. So for starters we've both got 'history' and tons of material to focus on! The stuff I've learned through Narcissism and how I use this quitely in the background everytime, it amaze's me at how easy I can open some one right up! The things girls come out with without realising what they've just said is mind blowing!

The other thing that I've learned about myself is actually to remove sex from the equation! Most men are 'Dick' lead...I'm sure you'll agree ! I learned to understand just how stupidly this can make us miss the obvious! We blokes are sooooooooooo thick around this subject, christ we need putting down! For the sake of a bonk.....so many of us, including me , will get ourselves into sooooooo much trouble!

So not only can I spot an Narcissist at 10 paces, I can also think without my cock getting in the way of things! So now I can have an intelligent conversation with a girl without focusing upon her chest every 5 seconds! This has actually lead to situations when the girl that I'm talking with actually gets really pissed about the fact that I'm not gorping at her incredibly large cleavage that she thrusting into my face   !

At the end of a dinner or whatever, I'm very happy to go home on my own and I'm not trying to get the said girlie into my bed! What I have found it that I know too much! And in doing so, I stictly stay 'on the surface' and will never be capable again of diving into the depths of a relationship! I have a number of 'close' girlfriends.....but never again will I ever enter into the possibility of anything like I once found myself in!

To that end, I rather enjoy life these days......it's soooooo much easier!

Onyx

[nassim]

Onyx,

Hi you devil you...lol.

It just seems to me that you got a gal that was riddled with a man eating virus. But not all women are like that. So my question to you is - are you presupposing that all women are N or have Nish qualities or don't you trust YOU to pick a good one?

Now of course if you just want to be unattached because that is your most natural state, then of course that's okay. I don't understand what you mean by saying that you know too much though. Could you explain?

Nassim

[Onyx]

Morning Nassim and thanks for replying

We are all a little more selfish and selfcentered these days, it's just the way it is these days. I think both governments and the media have encouraged us to be this way, it's about me, me, me . I don't think that women are anymore N than men. I do think that we are all becoming more Narcissistic in our traits. But full blown NPD isn't something that I was saying in my original post about women in general.

There was a time when we were expected to have one relationship, the one for life, if we were lucky. Now it's quite the opposite. I never really knew me before my problem with my N surfaced. I really hadn't got a clue into who or what I really am/was! Having come through this experience, I've now learned so much about me and how relationships really function! Before I used to think that their wasn't a pattern to the way events would unfold. That their weren't other dynamics and power shifts going on. I had no real comprehension about PMT for instance. I was very naive....way too green for my own good!

Now I can't stop myself from looking beyond what is presented to me. I never take things at face value. I smile and nod when I first meet a girl, but am always on full alert inside. I am an actor; people have no idea as to how I observe them. I'm over analytical without without giving clues to this. I'm outwardly not judgemental, but inwardly very! I act as if I'm a laboratory technician running tests on mice. It's as basic as that!

Spotting a Narcissist  at distance has become a bit more of a hobby. I'm a HR consultant and I'm paid to observe people...amongst other things. Narcissism in  our private lives is one thing, but in business, it can be equally devastating! A person with full blown NPD in a company can ruin it very easily depending upon their power and position. I've used my experience to good effect in stearing  a number of people away from senior roles within a company. They can really cause soooo much shit and are very ruthless in achieving this! Terrible!

So yes Nassim, I do think that I know too much and I'm not being big headed. It's not just the NPDers that cause us all so much pain....it's be boarderline or high scoring ones that can also inflict a lot! It's a very selfcentered world and our governments and media are determined to continue in promoting this conclussion.

I love reaching beyond the bullshit that people come up with, the shop front that they display! Often behind it all is an absolute mayhem of destruction and broken bodies! If you ask your average 40 something how many long term relationships that they've had....you'll be surprised by the number. Then in most cases, treble it! Then look back and listen as they tell you a little more about how they ended.

It's a bit like 'Sex in the City'! Essentially a bunch of slappers, men and women, trawling through life after something that they really don't want in the first place. The journey is more important than arriving at their intended destination! And in the meantime, every relationship entered is actually one more mistake because the dynamics are all wrong! It's not about sex, yet this is the principle MO of the programe. Observe the benefits each actor portrays in moving from bed to bed against staying with the same partner! Many partners is fun, one is a pain! More is good, less is bad!

We really do have to be carefull these days as we can really get ourselves into a lot of trouble. One in two marriages end in divorce.....50 percent of us had no intention of this happening when we married! In the UK, not only are you sued for equal settlement....rightly so....prenuptual agreements don't count. This has also been extended to include future incomes. If you married and divorce let say in your twenties, your spouse can sue you for a chunk of your future earnings until retirement!! There is little or no benefit in get married anymore! The downside is all to real and stark, and the limitations obvious! Bar having a vasectomy at the age of 16, one is really walking on broken glass these days in bare feet!

Now I know the above sounds sooooo cynical.....but I really do think that it's more realistic than cynical! How many people have we all told that we love them.......and then it ended! How many girls were 'the one'....and then they weren't! It's the way it is these days! I do however have an ace up my sleave. A very special one!!

Onyx

[nassim]

Onyx,

My man!!!!!!!

I guess since I've been long married and have a dynamic relationship with my wife I am having a hard time understanding what you are saying precisely. But I do believe we just have different personal belief systems and we aren't going to agree. I can tell you this however. Being married to the wrong person is hell, but marriage to the right person is a bit of heaven. I did have a "starter" marriage as many people have and it was just a bad match. The person wasn't bad or anything. We just were too young to know much.

I think what you know from your NPDer is extremely beneficial in your HR role though. The Ns that get into positions of authority could wreak major havov on a company in many ways. They are very destructive people. Knowing just how destructive they are is a very valuable commodity indeed. Cheers to you, David.

N

[switzerland]

Hi Onyx,

That was me who posed the question after reading about your story in earlier posts.  I was so concerned that you would be cynical and turned-off to future relationships.  I see that that is precisely where you are, and that is all ok.  It takes time to heal, to learn, etc...

I also noted that you tend to hide your true feelings behind very humorous remarks that have shades of sarcasm and cynicism against women and relationships.  For now, that too, is ok.  But i hope you will evolve to something even better over time.

I think i know exactly how you feel.
When i was younger, at age 25, a good older male friend looked me in the eyes and said, "oh, it's too late for you.  you will never get a man because..... you know too much!  It's in your eyes!!"
Since then, others have said similar.  I often hide behind glasses and avoid eye contact, but still, i guess i am sending some kind of message out there that certain type of men should avoid me at all costs because i will not give into them, cannot be easily fooled, etc....

I never perceived "knowing too much" to be a bad thing at all, and was quite proud of it actually.  But i am still a humble person in that i can admit that am not sure how to attract a good man who is compatible with me.

Over the years, its been increasingly improving, afterall, i am told i am very attractive indeed.   I do work on myself and love myself, which i find is attractive to many people who are the same way.  I do not apologize at all for knowing too much and for protecting myself in matters of the heart, afterall, i was not protected by my family all through my childhood. I feel certain that my family perceived me as another mouth to feed and would feel grateful to anyone willing to marry and take responsibility for me.  You see what messed-up role parental models i have?  I may be hardened because of them, but i still have hope.  And ironically, i am even grateful for having learned from the hard lessons of Nparents because I am certain that i am immune to this disorder by now.

Anyway, i hope you will continue to learn and come out of the horrible N experience on top.  It was better to have had the experience than not at all.  Its like a virus that once you had it, you get immunity, and you should not repeat the same mistakes again.  But just be careful that you are not so jaded and cynical as to ward off all women and relationships forever.  If so, then, the N really got to you and destroyed your future.

We are rooting for you!!  Hope you can find some way to still believe in love.

Very sincerely,
switzerland

[bunny]

I love reaching beyond the bullshit that people come up with, the shop front that they display! Often behind it all is an absolute mayhem of destruction and broken bodies! If you ask your average 40 something how many long term relationships that they've had....you'll be surprised by the number. Then in most cases, treble it! Then look back and listen as they tell you a little more about how they ended.

Where do you find these women? They sound really jaded and horrific.

bunny

[switzerland]

That is exactly what i am talking about, Bunny.
We will attract what we want to attract subconsciously, to  prove ourself right.
If one is jaded, it will somehow attract someone compatible with the same outlook.  Strange that it works that way, but it does.

I saw a bit of myself in Onxy's story, and wondered how i could be strengthened by the N-experience, rather than be destroyed by it.  
Sharing all the stories here has been so enlightening and uplifting for once we start talking about it, naming it, and purging  some feelings from it, we can really heal and be stronger in the future.  I am so grateful to everyone here.

Switzerland

[switzerland]

It's a bit like 'Sex in the City'! Essentially a bunch of slappers, men and women, trawling through life after something that they really don't want in the first place. The journey is more important than arriving at their intended destination! And in the meantime, every relationship entered is actually one more mistake because the dynamics are all wrong! It's not about sex, yet this is the principle MO of the programe. Observe the benefits each actor portrays in moving from bed to bed against staying with the same partner! Many partners is fun, one is a pain! More is good, less is bad!
Onyx

Sex in the City is very entertaining, but i hope people are not emulating these crazy characters who are based on the lives of many women, not just the four.  The writers combined the experiences of many many women and wrote them into the 4 characters.  If viewers are watching it and role-modeling after it, that would be very N indeed.  One really has to watch carefully to see the consequences of these girls' outlandish actions.  The girls make good humor and some are good in the fashion sense, but they are far from being good role models for single women in the city.  The morals are kind of screwed up with all of them, and they will pay the price for that.

I met a young woman this past summer who looked and acted just like the characters from this show.  She turned out to be an N and a bona-fide gold-digger, and people-user. I couldn't run fast enough to get away from her upon my startling realization.  

By the way, i am 37 and loving it too!!  

[lmb37]

I am intrigued by this thread.  I have had two marrieages.  My first husband is the father of my three children and I was with him for twenty years.  I knew for years there was something wrong but ambient abuse is difficult to spot let alone believe!  My counselor told me he is NPD and since researching this...I agree.

The second was completely opposite or so I thought.  Hah, just different traits disguised as a mild man.  I finally got the message when he waved a loaded rifle around the bedroom threatening to shoot the dog.

I am in agreement with Onyx.  I have been separated for 6 months now.  I have had great sex with a few different men but, when they want to call me again.....I run the other way.  What, and do it all again?  Forget it.  I am living alone and loving it for the first time in my life!!!!  I do what I want when I want (unless of course my kids complain!)  I am writing again, singing again, trying new things, went kaiaking this summer!!!  Loved it!!

Maybe it is time for me to redefine what it is that willl be successful but until I know what the heck that is..I am as happy as I can be for now.  I just need to understand this whole mess because it makes no sense to me.  How can I ever trust myself to see the red flags?  I know I am getting better and everything is becoming a learning experience.  

Onyx, you mentioned the INTERVIEW!  Would you mnd sharing a bit of this?  I really could use some insight into spotting the N's and abusers.  I se them now way sooner but not until it has moved into a date or two and unfortunately, I also have a codependency problem.  I feel so badly breaking things off, but, I do.  

I sure would appreciate insight from any one who cares to offer it!