The Sex and Sexual Repression Thread

[HeartofPilgrimage]

You guys talking about peacocks is so funny. My grandma lived 'way out in the country, and once when I was in college she wrote me and (she wrote exactly how she talked) said, "Well, the Devil came and visited me two nights in a row." The first night was a bobcat that came up in her yard and screamed right next to her window. The second night she couldn't figure out WHAT it was until the next morning ... and a peacock was perched on her barn roof! Apparently it had escaped from a neighbor's property.

I have never heard a peacock, but my husband once made a delivery to someone's house where they raised them, and he said they scared him to death.

I don't know what being "repressed" means. Repressed to one person is another person's modesty or restraint. I know it would hurt my feelings terribly if my husband were to call me repressed. And throughout our long relationship, he has always been more interested in sex than me. I'm probably not particularly adventurous, either. But repressed? That is such a critical word.

[Hopalong]

Me too, Pilgrim.
I think "repressed" is a really hurtful term.

In this culture so many people are so damaged about sexuality, it's nearly impossible to reach adulthood with a happy, positive and untroubled attitude about sex.

For many, there's so much fear and hurt around it...so being labelled "repressed" is just another hurt.

(Peacocks are louder than opera singers. Seriously. It's a powerful SCREAM.)

Hops

[Sealynx]

The more I think about it, the more it seems that someone would not tell someone else they were repressed unless what is being asked for is assumed to be unusual by the person doing the accusing.

If they thought the request that prompted the comment wasn't  "out of bounds" in some way, then wouldn't they worry that the problem might be on their end and ask... "How can I make sex better for you?"

Calling someone repressed is not about offering to do anything....it is completely in the request category and leaves the "ball" totally in the other person's court. Either you do what I want or you are defective...

Doesn't sound very sexy to me!!! I get a headache just thinking about it!!!

[sKePTiKal]

Sealynx: you're on to something! Instead of offering an "invitation" to play... the demand (and calling names if refused)... really isn't overly "romantic"... and it "boomerangs" on the one who feels entitled or deprived, at least for me & hubby, because my hyper-defenses just cause me to withdraw, back off, retreat even more. I've worked on that and at least can stay "engaged" in conversation with him about it.

Been trying to "train" hubby to just ask, if I'm feeling - or could feel - playful. And that helps. But I think he'd like me to make the "invitation" more often... well, I know he would; he's said so. I think the reason I don't - at all - is just another way that I deny myself that whole range of "good feelings", play and self-care. Until all this FOO crap "came up" for me, I used to have a pretty healthy sexuality. Hubby misses that; more often than not these days - it's a running joke, rather than a problem. But, I still recognize that the humor is just masking what is a real issue. How much am I missing???

Another thing that helps, is an idea I ran across in an ACON book: relearning gentle touch. It is a good starting point, for me. I find that I'm also hypersensitive to touch (would that be cause of a lack of it, as a child??) - so even just someone rubbing my back is experienced as a very intense feeling/sensation. With a patient, caring partner... it's possible to begin here, creating a "safety/comfort zone" and then move on later. And that, I can initiate with him - releasing the outcome of it.

That technique is useful for me, in that I'm connecting physical sensation - emotional caring. And it helps break down the "mental static" that often will get in the way.

[Hopalong]

I find that I'm also hypersensitive to touch (would that be cause of a lack of it, as a child??) - so even just someone rubbing my back is experienced as a very intense feeling/sensation

.

Sweetie, I have no knowledge, but intuition tells me this would be such a natural response to rape. Even though your brain knows you're safe and it's "positive" touch, you'd perhaps need an extra beat. Not a head thing...

Some bodies just say "Ooooo"
Your body says "WHOA, Ooooo"

And as long as you and your dear one know that, well, we all know slow dancing's the sexiest.

hugs
Hops

[Ami]

The more I think about it, the more it seems that someone would not tell someone else they were repressed unless what is being asked for is assumed to be unusual by the person doing the accusing.

If they thought the request that prompted the comment wasn't  "out of bounds" in some way, then wouldn't they worry that the problem might be on their end and ask... "How can I make sex better for you?"

Calling someone repressed is not about offering to do anything....it is completely in the request category and leaves the "ball" totally in the other person's court. Either you do what I want or you are defective...

Doesn't sound very sexy to me!!! I get a headache just thinking about it!!!

Sealynx                                                                                                                                   
    I am gonna call you when I need male/female advice  . You got it.   Do you have good boundaries in life?                                                               xxxxxooooo                              Ami

[sKePTiKal]

In the months immediately after the rape - your intuition would be spot on, Hops. I remember my mother telling me I was like the "princess & the pea", I was so sensitive. Well DUH - my shoulder was dislocated and I hurt in places I didn't even know I could feel! Add to that the emotional  & psychological pain of "that didn't happen; you just made it up". But 40 years later? Plenty of relationships later? Naw... it's more than that. I enjoy sex, just fine, once I get past the initial "shock" of being touched.

But of course, early attachment issues with her are at the root of this hypersensitivity. There were no gentle, loving little touches - EVER - from her. No hugs, going off to school - hell, she wasn't even out of bed. And when she did touch me, it always involved pulling my hair, scrubbing the skin off, pinching or catching skin in zippers... and then I was blamed for it, when I yelled OUCH - because I didn't "STAND STILL!!!"

NO... I didn't want her to touch me... no matter how desperately I needed touch, safety & comfort. This is the source of my reflex to draw back. It's starting to fade away... I guess maybe hubby's physically affectionate nature (lots of the "verboten" PDA) helped this come to the surface (along with all the long, long story of Twiggy) so that I can release it back into the void of the universe whence it came, once and for all.

It's funny in a sad sort of way. Last time we visited hubby's mom... she reached out to stroke my hair and comment on how long it's getting again. And I didn't draw back - and it felt good. And I remember thinking: it's such a little thing - that kind of touch - why was that so awful, or costly, or whatever... that my mom couldn't do that?

[Sealynx]

LOL Ami,
Unfortunately the boundaries didn't come with my natal package! I had to work at them a great deal. At 58 I know enough about me to tell people where to stop. I think it is hard to form good boundaries with others if you aren't sure what feels right to you. No one can tell you what is right for you. I see that as the real struggle in any relationship.

 My basic philosophy of relationships is that everyone has their own path in life and when you partner with someone they are drawn to you because they need to fully experience who you are in order to grow along their own life path. There is a difference between; compromise and becoming someone else, considering a request that challenges your assumptions about life and giving up your values, negotiating "play" with someone and allowing them to tell you what is right or wrong.

I think sometimes it is in the best interest of your partner to hear the word "NO", even though they might not see it that way. We all commit boundary violations and make assumptions about our "rights" regarding another person. Even bad relationships teach something about yourself. There is always a push pull between loneliness and the demands of partnership, but I have come to realize that I am much lonelier in a partnership that doesn't support who I am than I am when truely alone. If you don't value and appreciate your own company, what is there for another person to support?

25 cents please,  
S

[Ami]

LOL Ami,
Unfortunately the boundaries didn't come with my natal package! I had to work at them a great deal. At 58 I know enough about me to tell people where to stop. I think it is hard to form good boundaries with others if you aren't sure what feels right to you. No one can tell you what is right for you. I see that as the real struggle in any relationship.

 My basic philosophy of relationships is that everyone has their own path in life and when you partner with someone they are drawn to you because they need to fully experience who you are in order to grow along their own life path. There is a difference between; compromise and becoming someone else, considering a request that challenges your assumptions about life and giving up your values, negotiating "play" with someone and allowing them to tell you what is right or wrong.

I think sometimes it is in the best interest of your partner to hear the word "NO", even though they might not see it that way. We all commit boundary violations and make assumptions about our "rights" regarding another person. Even bad relationships teach something about yourself. There is always a push pull between loneliness and the demands of partnership, but I have come to realize that I am much lonelier in a partnership that doesn't support who I am than I am when truely alone. If you don't value and appreciate your own company, what is there for another person to support?

25 cents please, 
S

You like to REALLY hit home  .                                          Ami

[Hopalong]

I hear you, Amber. That's a clear distinction. And bravo to your sweet hub for the PDA!

Rambling on: I have a red flag filed for men who avoid any affectionate touch in public...like never taking my hand--in hindsight, with one N-nonbf (whom I pretended was really into me)--it was such a clear indicator that although he'd soak up my attention/affection in private, he wouldn't acknowledge me in any way as a gf in public--what a pathetic beagle I was. And another for the N who made a display of it to the point that I was extremely uncomfortable. Yikes.

My Nmother's touch isn't something I remember as tender, ever. It wasn't quite as rough as your mother's but my sense memories of her are never of affectionate touch. But daily hair braiding (ow!), and a great, great deal of fussing with my clothing. In fact, she was an incredibly talented seamstress, and turned me out in meticulously tailored clothes that she sewed. (This did her no good in our then-provincial town, where all status was based on having money and buying expensive brands. There was contempt for "home made.") In hindsight, I'm moved by her exquisite handiwork, French seams, all of it. And I honor that part of her, that carried the grace of handwork, her eye for fine tailoring, the sense of competence and dignity it gave her. Those are my happiest memories of her...being parallel, when she was doing something with her hands. It was working together. (The rest of it was all about her lecturing me, torture of a different kind.)

Despite this, I did also feel very much like a little specimen, and that my clothing and appearance were too desperately important to her...which rolls right back around to being her prop. Poor Mom. She really did try to do right. It's not her fault she was an N.

Affectionate touch came from my father, who stroked my hair and cuddled (never transgressing in the slightest). From him it was simple warmth and connection.

I can be very jumpy around touch. Oddly, I'm happy hugging women, and cautious with men. Once I am in any sort of relationship with a man, I'm very uneasy with "proprietary" touch. The sort of leaning, grabbing, displaying touch in public that some men in my life have done. The thing is, when it's reciprocal and mutual and represents a connection we're both feeling, I love it. I love hugging, handholding, and quick kisses even in public. When I hated it was when the man was cold or mean at home, and then "out there", was suddenly acting like, "This is mah woman, fellas, see me grab her." Grrr. I do not like that.

I guess this is all about the topic in a meandering way...

xo
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

ah... ramble on Hops... you've reminded me that there are no neat "file folders" or categories for sex, emotions or intimacy. It's all one big territory... of feeling for me**. I wonder if it's the same for men? If so, they seldom talk about it and it seems to be not important. Though hubby teases me that I "don't love him anymore"... in this case "love" is a verb; and he means actively loving him through sex. Maybe that's one way it mooshes together for men, too.

**(duh - big clue for me; I spend more time in my head than just feeling throughout my day; still)

[Redhead Erin]

It seems to me that when therapists and so on use the phrase "sexual repression," it means bungling up one's own normal sexuality with so many other issues and burdens that one is no longer able to enjoy sex.  Like a lot of things, insensitive jerks can use that phrase as a label to be hurtful and mean, or to try and manipulate you into doing things you would not otherwise do.

My own DH used to be repressed in this sense.  He worried all the time about things like whether it was a sin to have sex on Sunday (he is not a particularly religious man, so you wouldn't think this would be an issue), and whether it was morally OK to have fun during sex.  I used to have a website called "SexIsFun.com" which he just could not understand.  IN fact, he nearly refused to speak to me after I cracked a joke one of the first times we went to bed together.  In short, he was ruining things for himself because he just could not relax and enjoy himself during sex.  He just had to worry himself about something. (I'm happy to report that he has come a long way in 10 years!)

I am anything but repressed.  However, there are certain things that just do not interest me.  And I have been called repressed, frigid, and worse by people who wanted me to do things I did not want to do.

In response to the OP:

As an exotic dancer, it is my professional opinion that many or even most men are boiling pots of unexamined sexual emotions.  They do not know what they want.  They only know what they have been told they should want, and many times there are conflicting messages.  For example, "real men" they knew growing up were macho womanizers.  They took what they wanted.  They slept around.  The more women you had, the better.  But then their church tells them sex is wrong, dirty, whatever. Another common conflict is the Madonna/whore issue, in which the kind of woman they think of as a sex partner is not the same kind of woman they would bring home to momma or want for the mother of their children.  Most men have little talent or patience for introspection, so these conflicting ideas both sink into their heads and roil around in there like an oil spill in a hurricane.

Then they open their mouths and let some of that mess out into the world.  No wonder we females think they don't make any sense half the time!

[HeartofPilgrimage]

This is interesting to me from the standpoint of touch in general. My husband seems hypersensitive to sensory input --- he can't stand loud TV or music, scratchy clothes, stuff like that. I seem undersensitive --- it takes a lot to get my attention, I like loud music and TV, tight hugs, smacking kisses, heavy covers on the bed. I think that some of that is inborn. However, I did read somewhere where ACON may have learned to tune a lot of stuff out in order to survive. I too remember too-tight ponytails, no sympathy when I got stuck with a pin while trying on a dress-in-progress, being lied to that "she just wanted to see my loose tooth" and then having it snatched out. She said she never could tell how bad I felt when I was sick, that I made a big deal out of it. I don't to this day know why she said that. I don't know if I complained a lot because being sick was the main time I got sympathy for my feelings, or if she truly just doubted my reports.

I do know that my mother doesn't understand feelings, but she can be very sympathetic about physical illness. Emotions are felt in the body. I think that she and my aunt too tuned out their emotions, and they could only let somebody else have their own feelings IF those feelings were physical in nature. They both are at their most nurturing if you are sick. It's a wonder I didn't turn out to be some kind of malingerer. I guess because I really didn't want the extra engulfing that came with being sick.

My dad though was a toucher. He hugged and kissed me frequently. Maybe that's why I haven't had significant problems in my sexuality ... my dad was very prudish by most standards, wouldn't even watch a TV show with me where a colt was being born, but he did show affection. My husband is very affectionate too. I have hurt both of their feelings from time to time because I find being touched distracting. I have had to learn to express my feelings through physical touch.

[Ami]

How are you doing, Bean?                                                                            xxooo   Ami

[tayana]

For me, I don't have a lot of issues "repressing" my sexuality, although I had a hard time accepting it.  I don't have problems talking about sex or engaging in it.  I don't really have hangups about it, but I am not a "touchy" person by nature.  I don't touch other people a lot, and I don't really like to be touched.  I have a hard time initiating or vocalizing my desires.  I'm much happier when my partner does those things for me. 

My Nmom very much drilled the idea that sex and sexual expression was something dirty and disgusting, and I think I embraced that more than I wanted.  I have no problem writing about sex, talking about it, but when it comes to being intimate with my partner, a lot of times I just can't.  My Nmom basically told me that women weren't supposed to enjoy it, even though I do, and that you just lay there until its over.  As a result, I have a lot of fantasies that scare me.  I envision myself as male rather than female.  I have a hard time expressing what I want and how I want to be touched to my partner.  My partner thinks I want sex all the time, and the longer we're together, the less I want it.  That too, bothers me. 

I'm trying to get over it, and find a form of healthy expression, because I know what I have right now isn't healthy.