Dr. Disbelief in this type of Narcissism

[gratitude28]

My sister is a Dr. She has only been practicing about 2 years. Although she accepts that our mother is far from normal, and although she believes she has "issues," she does not believe that her disorder is related to narcissism. She believes, as many still do, that narcissism is only about people who believe they are Napoleon and are extremely obviously superior-acting. She does not see that NM believes all are jealous of her, that she wears jewelry b/c she believes everyone notices it, that she constantly puts down people to be superior.... Somehow the more subtle narcissism seems to get away from professionals. NM lives in an entirely made up world. Everyone around her is a minion - her family included. My sister is still so tremendously confused about it all... I don't bring up what I believe b/c she tells me she is a doctor and knows what narcissism is...

[Twoapenny]

Hi G,

Even with her medical training, your sis might not be able to 'see' the extent of your mum's problems, or the effect they have on the family.  She might play it down in her mind because she can't handle the reality.  'Issues' sounds far less threatening than 'personality disorder'; a bit like someone claiming they were just 'fooling around' when what they did was actually sexual assault.  Personally, I'm not a big fan of labels; I've no idea whether or not my mum would be diagnosed with NPD but I find this board and various books I have read helpful and that does me fine.  I've also not got a lot of faith in health care professionals either; 38 of them told me there was nothing wrong with my boy and I was accused of having MSBP before he was finally diagnosed with autism (which is what I'd been saying he had for three years).  Frustrating for you, but I suppose the end result isn't much different; you know in your own mind what's going on and that's always a big help.

[gratitude28]

Thanks Two. I think the reason it has come up more lately is that my sister is finally seeing and trying to deal with the fact that our family is far from normal. She was the GC, so was able to overlook things for many years. I agree that the label is not important, but I feel it would help her to read some of what I have read. I don't think she is completely ready to face it all yet, though, so mostly I just listen as she puzzles over it all.
I have a dear friend who has a son with Aspberger's (sp). It took them 15 years to admit that he did have a different view on life than other children. I adore him, and I know it was frustrating for her to have so many people tell her there was nothing different about him.
Again, thanks for your input ((((((((((()))))))))))

[JustKathy]

What type of doctor is your sister? If she's a PCP, she may not have received much schooling on psychiatric disorders. The reason I say this, is because I mentioned to my PCP that my mother had NPD, and my doctor didn't know what it was. I explained it to her, and she went on to tell me that she has a SIL who behaves the same way. She told me a few things that the SIL had done to her, and it was classic N. I told my doctor to Google it. She really didn't know what NPD was.

This does makes sense to me, because no one is going to visit a PCP for treatment over something an N parent did. Anyone with an N in their family is going to seek out a therapist or psychiatrist. My PCP specializes in internal medicine, so really, that's what she should be studying. I'm sure that people in med school are required to take a few classes in psychiatry, but they probably only touch on NPD. I would think that there would be greater emphasis on things that they would see in their practice, like depression and anxiety. So if your sister is in any area of general medicine, she may not have a true understanding of the disorder, despite her years of training.

Also, your sister being the GC is HUGE. The GC does view the parent differently. In my family, my brother was the GC. I'm certain that he knows things are "off" with his mother, but turns the other cheek, because he has benefited so much from being the GC. I honestly don't think he cares that M has "issues" or not, as long as he gets a check whenever he asks for money. He was never hurt by her the way I was, so he has no interest in knowing what's wrong with her. IMO the child who was the N's victim has a far greater desire to research and learn about the illness. I HAD to know, in order to validate what she did to me. My brother was never abused, so tolerates her delusions, but just doesn't care about the reasons why her behavior is what it is.

[Sealynx]

Medical doctors who aren't psychiartrists do not have much training mental illness. Most therapists don't even have training in NPD specifically. If you think about it, how are you going to train someone to treat a disorder when the clients who have it won't see a therapist??? What is the use???

[Ales2]

I have to add that I think the worst kind of NPD is not that recognizable.  Its very subtle and in that way more cutting because it confuses the victim more. For example, its hard for me not to take an insult or a personal attack when I've made a mistake at work. Its hard to separate the two. One is my self respect/esteem the other is my work.  Everyone makes mistakes but that doesnt give the boss the right to be insulting or demeaning. Yet, its very hard to stand up for yourself, in many cases its subordinate to do that when you've made a mistake. It makes you appear defensive.  This is the kind of subtlety that I think professional can miss, becuase it can be situational, circumstantial and highly dependent on the reporting of the incident. Only over a long period of time can N be recognized.  I frequently have said I would have liked to have been raised in a trailer park with an alcoholic mother in curlers (no offense to anyone here!) because at least people might have been able to see the origin of my problems. I was raised with the Mary Tyler Moore character in Ordinary People.  Shes harder to evaluate and thats why my problems went on as long as they did!

[gratitude28]

Dear Ales,
Yes!!! My NM comes across as "normal" to a lot of people for long periods of time too. Lately, she is becoming a bit odder, so I think more people are noticing. Also, she doesn't cover her tracks as well. You are so righ, though. My reactions to so many things are skewed b/c of that relationship. I have to work on having normal reactions to normal situations. And I SO WISH that everyone could see her for what she is. Many are starting to now, but it is so hard to watch her play the game and have people buy into it.
Yes, Seal, I doubt this disorder will ever be treated in any kind of volume. There must be the spare person that has a reason to change... but otherwise how could she go against her instincts?????
Kathy, my sister is an ER doctor. I know she has had only a bit of training in psych. When I told her she should look up some of the NPD traits, though, she said she knows what NPD is, and it is not what our NM is... But, like you said, she has seen her through rose-colored glasses for all of her life. It wasn't until she had her baby, and realized my NM doesn't give a fig about him, that she really started seeing more.... My sister is a good person, but displayed N traits for a long time due to being the GC. I feel bad for her now - she just seems so perplexed... yet fights against knowing more... She is angry with her but doesn't want to find out more and understand why and how to deal with it.
Thanks everyone ((((((((((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[nolongeraslave]

Even some therapists can easily be fooled by "N's", or don't know much about it. Just b/c your sis is a doctor doesn't mean that her opinion is valid. From what I know, they go over mental health briefly in med school (at least that's what my friend who was a doctor said)

I agree that being "GC" is a part of it. Denial is a part of the process anyhow. Over time, she may realize that her mom is an N.

[Ami]

My M has gone to therapists all her life and IS one, as most people here know. She tells them that she has PTSD. No one figured out NPD . I figured it out from being on the Board.
 She fits perfectly.         Ami