Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board

misogyny?

(1/2) > >>

seeker:
Hi everybody,

I'm still getting acclimated to the board and am taking a chance on a new topic.  Does anyone have any observations or suggestions on how to deal with an Ndad who is a closet misogynist?  I think my mom endured it because she grew up in a military culture and bought into because it was "traditional" to be the homemaker/asst to the man.  She also had sisters who basically verbally pounded her and she worshipped her dad.  My Ndad and his brother went to boarding school together.  He never talks about childhood at all.

He would never say anything directly to me like why try? you're a girl.  anything you do is unimportant.  Nothing between the eyes.  Just lots of stuff booms out of his mouth about how women nowadays don't want to watch their kids, how he doesn't like certain actresses who portray particularly strong characters, etc. that reveals his attitude.  And of course, no woman's opinion is worth anything unless she's a client.  I had chalked this up to a traditional upbringing, like, my dad the dinosaur...but I felt very undervalued being the only girl in a man's world of my household.  

Ironically, even now, I feel more comfortable in the world of men (sports, business, etc.) than I ever would in a sorority or any similar group of women, even though as a woman I am still an outsider.  I don't have the I'm-mad-at-men feeling that I know some women understandably have given their experiences.  (I want to be careful not to invalidate anyone's feelings or experiences here.) I am really wondering why I don't share this attitude given the negativity towards women in my house.  Maybe because I was rewarded for being a "good girl" a "nice girl" and stayed in my place.  Maybe because I had brothers.  (On a really, really, really bad day, I think my parents didn't have more kids because I was a girl--sorry about that, mom and dad!)  I was also a tomboy which was tolerated.  
Fortunately my husband had many strong, smart women in his life.  He was the first guy I dated to appreciate smart women so I grabbed him!   :D

I am trying to work through this because I think I missed out on the company of women when I grew up.  I alienate some women I think because I don't bash the guys.  Maybe this is/was my survival strategy?  Codependency?  Any suggestions on connecting with women friends?

Any observations or suggestions appreciated.  Thanks, S.

cindy:
I would say you learned an attitude that kept you safe.  I bash men but feel guilty because of it.  At the same time, most crime and abuse is gendered.  So there are real issues to address, and personal issues to overcome.  I tend to like men one-on-one, and have many male friends.  I do feel safer around new friends who are women, though.

I don't think many women would be alienated if you didn't bash men.  Not women worth knowing, anyway.  I do resent women who don't respect my garbage from personal experiences, and recognize relevant gender issues, though.  Can you ask some aquaintances why it may be you feel women don't take to you?

I do enjoy my women friends, and would say you are missing out.  This is worth fnding out about.

seeker:
Hi Cindy,

Your thoughtful reply hit on something I don't consciously process all the time: safety.  You've given me something to go on.  Thanks.  S.

Nic:
Hello Seeker,
What a large yet very important subject you have chosen. I have tried to understand mysogyny in my own family.  I read with interest the fact that your father is mysogynous ( what a hard word to spell! :shock: ) Most importantly, it struck me when you mention he went to boarding school.
My brother and I went to boarding school after we started developing a personality of our own.  This bothered and interfered with my N parents' agenda for us.  We are two adopted boys, there was no way my N mother was going to deal with another woman in her household;in fact, she always feels/felt threatened by other women..she needs to be surrounded by men, needs to feel like the princess and porcelain doll constantly. She has always berated my father, who she blames for having us enrolled in a boarding school, where they were going to turn my brother and I "into real men 'cause your dad is too soft"!  Truth is, my father was not into punishing us for every little thing we did wrong..the flip side was that my father is the real N of the family..just more passive and less inclined to rage overtly than my N mother.  My N father is the kind of N who is totally self absorbed, to borrow something I read not too long ago, he is in an almost  constant autistic fantasy.
My father is not a tall man, ( short man syndrome comes to mind), treats my mother like she is a hood ornament, and eversince I can remember has told her she's crazy at least ten times per day.  He is not an athlete, has never been and has discouraged any athletic ability in my brother especially because he ( my brother) had tremendous athletic potential in all sports he attempted.  My brother is today in his forties and is a government clerk instead of the athlete he could have been, fat and hypertensive...shame really and all because N dad wouldn't have his oldest son outshine him in anything.
As for myself, I belonged to my mother..we are two adopted boys and my dad hated me for this and still does to this day.  I was conveniently not athletic, fat as a child ( now I excel in one particular sport, and have an athletic build..isn't life strange :?:  :shock: )  I won all sorts of accademic achievement awards in an effort to please him because he valued accademic performance..still he rejected me because he would absolutely not have his youngest son surpass him..and I fell for it.
So there is the scenario, grosso modo. My brother treats women and his wife exactly like my father did, and I having not identified properly and through no effort of my own, with my dad was rejected by the " male" world for years..wondering why I over-identified with my mother, wondering about my own sexuality for years ( now am happily married to a "tom-boy " girl) etc etc.
My main point is that strange things go on in all male boarding schools.  They are generally unhealthy I believe because they limit contact between the sexes and encourage contact with the same sex.  Sometimes, as young boys, men discover their sexuality, and maleness, experimentation with homosexuality occurs.  This can lead to tremendous feelings of guilt in later life, especially if these contacts were enjoyable, or if they filled an affective void.  Remember in boarding school, at a young age, children naturally miss their parents.  I in particular missed the physical contact with my parents.  I did not get hugs and kisses at bedtime, I was terrorised nightly by threats of physical and sexual violence.  Perhaps your dad experienced the same thing, and being in the military establishment it is just something a real man absolutely cannot reveal or discuss overtly. Everything in all male environments, I have noticed goes on covertly.  In my case the weird sexual acting out of which I was a victim contributed to a horrible teenage stage and on to early adulthood.
It is very difficult to establish any kind of identity when one has no voice.  I do not mean to excuse your dad's behaviour but i'm sure he had a very horrible time 'growing up' himself..it sounds to me like he didn't have much of a voice either.  
I remember not liking "girls" because I perceived them as being able to get away with anything by turning on the tap, by running away screaming, ..my mother did that all the time.  Whenever she became hysterical the world stopped for her...and there I was being told to shut up and put up because I was a "man".  I know this is a distorted view NOW, but some men live their lives never correcting this impression they have of women.  I know now, that my nascent mysogyny was the result of a major wound inflicted on me by two N parents, as a result of an imposed voicelessness.  It wasn't my choice..but my REACTION.
Just in case you were wondering, It is very difficult to be a man, there are so many things we are not allowed to talk about, even today. Beyond the societal stereotypes, most men are trapped within themselves..a self-imposed exile of the child in them has occurred.  Add voicelessness and many times out of ten the "real men" remain trapped. Some for a lifetime.
God has blessed me with a wonderful wife with whom I expressed this child in me..I am accepted by her totally and it feels wonderful.  If I didn't have her I don't know where I would be today.
Beyond this declaration of LOVE for my wife, let it be known that every man wants a partner, the other half that makes the ONE.  Of this I have become convinced. My impression and experience only you realize :roll: Don't mean to impose any of this on anyone, just relating what happened to me and how I have come to understand it.
Kind regards,
Nic :)

Neko:
Such an interesting discussion :) My father is a misogynist too, but very subtle about it - you'd never guess unless you spent a long time with him.

And seeker, I like you feel much more comfortable around men than women, but for me, there are two main reasons: my mother is the narcissist, and I had many, many more bad experiences with girls in school than I ever did with guys. A lot of backstabbing and jealousy, which never interested me since my mother did the same. I don't think all women are like that, obviously! I was just unlucky, because speaking with a few other quiet girls who went to the same schools, they too have remarked on how cruel the others were. Women from different areas had different experiences. And I did have girl friends at school, just not many. One in particular was very close to me, and I miss her a lot - we lost touch after graduating university.

I've had extremely bad experiences with a few men too, but the thing is, they're just that: experiences with a particular type of person, gender not being much of an issue. The experiences were just as bad as the ones I'd had with women, only the means were different. I've known really great men, my husband being one, and really great women; really nasty men and really nasty women. Differences between individuals are often greater than differences between groups.

Now, I'm a bit of a hypocrite with my humanistic ideals there, because even though I try to follow them, I do still have a harder time opening up with women than with men. My mother has a lot to do with that, I'm certain; that and after so many years, I simply have more experience getting along with men. I am working on it, holding myself up to my own ideals, not projecting fears of my mother onto other women and such. It's hard though, because there's an unreasonable pit of terror in me that a woman will behave like my mother. When a man does, I'll stand up to it and take no nonsense, but when it's a woman... my childhood flashes before my eyes and I feel helpless, mute. Voiceless! Lots of progress left to be made :?

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page