Path of life

[Ami]

I'm coming to believe there is definitely a link between parental Narcissism and borderline personality disorder. NOT that I am suggesting anybody that posts on this forum has BPD ... but out of the people I know that do, they typically have a VERY narcissistic parent, especially an N mother. (Why is it I feel compelled to say "AN N" but if I write out the whole word, it's "A narcissist"? I digress) ... there is more to BPD than just rapid swings from one mode to another, but the question you are asking could be a component to the way BPD people respond to stress. People with this problem stuff their emotions until they just can't stand it anymore, and then they explode. So, you could say they swing from being a "little voice" to aggressively making sure you are heard.

I have had this pattern of expressing my emotions, although I don't qualify for BPD in any way and it is not so severe that I have ruined relationships are anything (thank goodness!). I have had to learn to assert myself even when I am in "little voice" mode because I know if I don't, I will eventually blow. up.

I have found Marsha Linehan's Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT) tremendously helpful. You can get workbooks on DBT skills anywhere books are sold, and so although being in a DBT program is important for somebody that actually has BPD, for those of us with milder problems you can start practicing DBT skills on your own. I actually have experience teaching DBT skills to others, and ironically (and serendipitously!!!!) it saved my life in several situations!!!

Briefly, DBT teaches that there are three mind states: emotional mind, wise mind, and reasonable mind. Imagine them as three overlapping circles in a row. Emotional mind is the left circle, reasonable mind is the right circle, and wise mind is the middle circle. When we are aggressively asserting ourselves and working off the sheer emotion and frustration of not being heard, we are in emotional mind. Rage, terror, suicidality, etc. all fall within emotional mind. When we are in "little voice" mode, we are usually in reasonable mind. We are trying to be reasonable, not "overreact" as we have always been accused of doing, keeping a lid on our gut reactions to injustice, not trusting our "gut" which is of course EMOTIONAL MIND. DBT teaches you to live MOST of your time in "wise mind" --- the middle circle. Wise mind is the place where you LISTEN TO and RESPECT your emotional reactions, your "gut feelings" but does not let those gut feelings completely take over and drive the bus. You retain your ability to be strategic about how you express your emotions; you are able to discern whether you are taking your rage out on the wrong person, or if it will do you any good to tell them off, or if you will have to pay too dearly for what you are tempted to do. BUT you still respect that your gut, your emotions, are there for a reason and should be respected at all times. Your emotions are not ignored or invalidated but rather put to good use.

I do a DBT worksheet when I get overwhelmed and it really helps ... and so far I'm not a patient or client at all!!!!

Thank you  (((Heart)))). Your little bit of an explanation sounds good. I think I may be coming to something similar on my own. I thought my primal nature was BAD so I rejected it. Now, I am taking it out and looking at it, objectively. That would be the emotional mind.
 Then, I try to use my rational mind to act. I stood up for myself last week and did not feel one bit guilty.
 *I* was afraid of my emotional nature cuz my M made me feel that I was "black", worthless and BAD inside.
  Thank God, I am finally seeing the truth of it!                     xxxooo   Ami

[HeartofPilgrimage]

I'm an INTJ too!

Ami, yeah, your N mom would have tried to squash your emotional nature because she didn't understand it, and because she couldn't control it. Also, Ns seem to TRY to provoke strong emotions in others for some reason ... and then they belittle you for them. I'm glad you found my posting on DBT helpful.

Lucky, it's funny you should say that ... do you work in the mental health field? Because there has been a movement to reclassify both borderline personality disorder AND antisocial personality disorder as "disorders of extreme stress" ... which are your words exactly!

[Lucky]

No I don't work in the mental health field but being an INTJ I read a LOT  .

[Ami]

I'm an INTJ too!

Ami, yeah, your N mom would have tried to squash your emotional nature because she didn't understand it, and because she couldn't control it. Also, Ns seem to TRY to provoke strong emotions in others for some reason ... and then they belittle you for them. I'm glad you found my posting on DBT helpful.

Lucky, it's funny you should say that ... do you work in the mental health field? Because there has been a movement to reclassify both borderline personality disorder AND antisocial personality disorder as "disorders of extreme stress" ... which are your words exactly!

Thank you for saying that about my mother trying to squash my emotional nature. It helps to hear it stated so succinctly. My M thought the primal nature was evil, I guess.
She thought she was bad. She told me that one day and it really shocked me to hear her say it. It felt and sounded weird to hear her express it right out , like that.
     xxxooo Ami

[Lucky]

Hi Lucky,
I think there are too many variables to answer those questions. For one thing we can only answer in relation to our perception of these terms. You would almost have to give everyone a full battery of psychological tests just to see where we fell in terms of the "norm."

The other issue would be how do you define success? Is it getting what we want or wanting what we are capable of. There are many factors that contribute to that. Also success where? Some of us are highly successful in the workplace but tend to be loners when it comes to people. Some of us are happy loners and some are unhappy loners.

There are times that I think that I suffer from all different kinds of mental problems like PTSD, depression, avoidance disorder, paranoia, schizoid PD, hypochondria, a little OCD and a little bit of narcissism. But at other times I tend to think that I am actually quite normal  . I have done internet tests on all kinds of mental disorders and the outcome varies but I think those tests are not very trustworthy. I think with succes I mean being good enough in your own eyes with regard to work performance and quality of relationship and friendships.