Finding Friends - Trusting Friends

[Butterfly]

I just found out that someone I thought was a good friend is actually a fraud, a fake, a complete liar, charlatan.  This has happened to me before--I have gone through several false friends.  I have watched other people drop these "friends" but for some reason I kept hanging on until their badness was right in my face. 

Why don't I see it?  Or, do I and I just don't act on it because I was always told that my feelings were wrong and that I cannot trust myself?  And, for that matter, how do I avoid these false friends from the get go?  I feel as though I am disabled in some way . . . . 

[CB123]

Butterfly,

I dont think you are disabled.  There's nothing wrong with believing in someone until they prove you wrong.  There is something inherently human and good about that. 

I think that we get into trouble when we let someone that we dont know well control our lives--ie, our finances, our time, our emotions, etc.  I think that it takes a long time (or should take a long time) before anyone is given that gift, and probably shouldnt ever be done whole hog. 

Something that I think that we children of Ns do, is think that there is something wrong with us because we cant create a life where nothing bad happens to us, no one treats us badly.  We are under the mistaken impression that everyone else in the world received at birth (or through good parenting) the ability to see bad things coming and stop it.  When we arent able to do that, we add to the hurt with our feeling that WE are at fault, that WE are failures.  The fact is: the only way to keep from having bad things happen, or from being hurt, is to so insulate ourselves from life that we dont ever really live. 

I guess what I am saying is--dont call yourself disabled.  What you call yourself is how you begin to see  yourself.  You are just a very good friend and you gave this person a gift that they chose not to accept.  Too bad for them. 

The other tricky thing is when you arent actually giving a gift, but when you are (in your heart of hearts) actually making a down payment on something you want in return.  Friendship?  Money?  Time?  Truth telling?  Its lots of things for lots of people.....but usually only one person is signing that contract.  And that's why you are pissed off.  Because there was a pay off that you expected that didnt come. 

Wow, Butterfly.  I am dealing with similar stuff and talking to myself the same way.   It's okay.

CB

[teartracks]

Hi Butterfly,

The other tricky thing is when you arent actually giving a gift, but when you are (in your heart of hearts) actually making a down payment on something you want in return.  Friendship?  Money?  Time?  Truth telling?  Its lots of things for lots of people.....but usually only one person is signing that contract.  And that's why you are pissed off.  Because there was a pay off that you expected that didnt come. 

I agree with CB on this. 

I think it helps to distinguish between desires and goals.  The minute there is a second person on whom  part or all  of the fulfilling of your goal rests, you give up control of the outcome to a large degree and perhaps totally.  OTOH, if building a relationship with them is predicated upon an open ended desire,  where you stay aware that either of you can thwart fulfilling the desire, then a negative outcome is not devastating, you already knew that was a possibility.  If it ends up being a positive friendship, ENJOY!

tt

[Portia]

Hi Butterfly, similar situation for me, although I have been pulling back from the (now) ex-friendship for a while. My original goal was pretty clear to me and that has run its course; it was a reciprocal thing and i think it benefited the person I was primarily interested in (not the friends as such). I have had misgivings and suspicions about the friends for some time but it wasn't 'costing' me anything to remain in contact. Once it did cost me, I had very few bad feelings about confronting them and standing my ground. The past doesn't count if present behaviour shows friends to be liars etc. It's their fault that they lie: not ours. If anything the worse part is realising the depth of peoples' insanity and how they underestimate the danger they put themselves in by lying. I guess that is a case of not being realistic, in my terms: understanding how a life could come apart just with a few lies and bad choices. But hey.

Falling out is a great learning experience. It's makes us stronger and wiser, hopefully, and it should be so much easier to recognise and act upon, or avoid, such people in the future. Their loss; our gain.

[Ami]

This is such a great topic, Butterfly. I am gonna think about it today and get back! Thanks for bringing it up.    Ami

[ann3]

Butterfly,

This book really helped me;  I'm not a Christian, but, I loved it:

Safe People: How to Find Relationships That Are Good for You and Avoid Those That Aren't
by Henry Cloud
http://www.amazon.com/Safe-People-Relationships-Avoid-Those/dp/0310210844

We may ignore the little red flags that signal that this person isn't a good friend, we second guess our gut & we don't have good boundaries, so we get involved with people who aren't good for us.  You are not disabled & you can fix this.

[CB123]

Thinking more along these lines....

I have had misgivings and suspicions about the friends for some time but it wasn't 'costing' me anything to remain in contact. Once it did cost me, I had very few bad feelings about confronting them and standing my ground.


This is kinda where I am...how do I live my life every day with people who are unknown quantities?  In the business I am in, so many people come in and out of my life every day...I have to think consciously about what role I want each to play in my life and not get that confused.  It's been helpful:  a customer is not my friend, an employee is not my friend.  What can I do to make their experience positive?  Can I make it positive, or is it time to disconnect?

I really like what you say here, Portia.  This is what I have begun doing--when I am very disturbed by something that someone is doing, I try to get to the bottom of what I am feeling.  What is it costing me to remain in contact?  Do I need to redefine contact?  More boundaries?  Change in communication?  Change in expectations about the future?  I am trying to let the other person make very clear to me where they are coming from--then, instead of trying to change them, I am trying to decide if the relationship is costing me what I want to pay. 

I dont know, it feels like I am less and less traumatized by people.  Even when they do stuff that is way out of line, I still feel as though I am making my own choices based on the cost and whether I want to pay it.

Like TT says, I seem to be freed up to really enjoy the relationships for what they are, rather than for what they arent.  And I dont ask them to be something that they cant be (unless I muddle my boundaries or theirs).  And I find that I am really, really, really enjoying the relationships around me right now.

CB

[Ami]

I think the hardest relationship to navigate is me with me. Who the Hell am I after being Daughter of Serpent? Am I bad as she told me I was? Am I human with all that entails?
 If *I* don't define me, I will want other people to do it . I will be fearful all the time of the outcome.Am I good? Am I bad? Am I acceptable?
 I HOPE I am letting go of co-dependency---from my mouth to God's ear. Amen!                    xxoo  Ami

[debkor]

Butterfly,

I have a friend like that.  Do I trust her?  I accept her.  I trust myself and my decision's I had to do. 
 
Until two days ago I have had no contact with her.  We have spoken when she called to tell me she is going to a drug rehab.  She is now dealing with or going to deal with a huge pill addiction. 

I was looking something up and came across Narcissism in a bottle:  The self-Centeredness of Addiction.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-tian-dayton/narcissism-in-a-bottle-th_b_249418.html

 A part says:  Why living with addiction feels like living with narcissism and goes on to tell you about how narcissist tend to view other people.

And how does this mirror addiction?


Very interesting!




 

Love
Deb

[Portia]

Am I acceptable....to myself? ((((((Ami))))))

I thought about this:
If anything the worse part is realising the depth of peoples' insanity and how they underestimate the danger they put themselves in by lying

and thought: is that me saying that? about my 'friends'? Talk about compartmentalising. Brain not dealing with stuff. But hey, I forgive my poor ol brain this time. It's had a rough ride (is there a name for what I'm doing right there?)

CB: Even when they do stuff that is way out of line, I still feel as though I am making my own choices based on the cost and whether I want to pay it.

Engage, don't engage, get help, delegate, walk away...there must be other options. Depends what you want to live with. Talking helps a lot, clarifies.

Yes, conscious choices, drama not needed (unless life threatening, or perceived as such, then drama happens).

Deb, reading your link, look interesting, thanks.