Izzy?

[seasons]

Could you share more about your compartmentalization sp? if you are comfortable with that. It sounds interesting, and helpful.

I didn't want to hijack Lupita's thread.

 
Thank you,
seasons xo

[Izzy_*now*]

Sure
First of all did you watch this youtube video about the brainwashed, mind controlled White House Sex Slave?

http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=9425.0

It helped me to understand, and I made note that I am on a far, far lesser scale.

She developed Multiple Personality Disorder, now called Dissociative Identity Disorder, as her mind had many compartments that were accessed by 'triggers' from her 'handlers'. Yet she still had room for her own personality that went to school and did normal things. Remember, we use only about 10%, if that, of our brains. Hers began with paternal sexual incest when a baby. The 'knowledge was not there', but the pain was and she shut if off.

I experienced a lot of physical abuse when very young, as well as emotional neglect. I believe now that I compartmentalized the physical pain of abuse, as by the time my 'husband' was beating me, it was only his alcoholism that bothered me. I loved him when I left and took our daughter, but I have remained alone. Part of that was to remain faithful to him for the year I suggested that we part, then meet again to see if he had cleaned up his act, and if we had a future. I saw him during that year and he apparently was not trying. I would no longer take abuse.

The emotionall neglect/abuse that I experienced from both parents and 4 siblings turned me into a loaner, shy and introverted. There might have been a compartment 'being prepared' back then for emotions.

I was the family scapegoat, and made out to be different, and still do not feel as I used to when I tried to become closer to them after about age 20, so somewhere, I turned them off and put them away. We were all raised the same and I don't think there is any special closeness between any two of the 5 (except what I have tried to develop with my younger (by 18 months) sister, now 69 to my 70., and who is coming from Ontario to BC to see me this month for a week. I gather from her emails that she wants us to be like sisters ought to be.

She wrote this:
The days are passing quickly and two weeks from now I will have been at your home for days, already.  Hard to believe.  I am so much looking forward to it all.  And wondering – as you must be, too – how the days will play themselves out.  I know in my heart that we are going to DO this thing!  We are going to be SISTERS together.  And that pleases me.

My almost last emotional broken tie was with my daughter---is that where you read to write to me? That pretty well finalized the emotional compartment. First I asked her to please, at 19, not marry that man, to wait, and if it were real love, it would last. She cruelly retorted. 'I love him and we are going to be married and if you don't like it you don't have to come'. I blamed that on him. He is, I now know, an N, and he divided and conquered.)

Whatever I felt for her is a 'known' fact to me but it is not felt. I feel that she betrayed me badly when not even loving the husband she stood up for. (She told me she stopped loving him after the first child was born. I was there and could see why.)  It 'killed' me, when he dismissed me. Then this past January she snail-mailed me a typed 3 page letter all about her and my 3 Grandkids, and said she is in love and finally knows what love is. Her 'partner' has 3 little children and she is adjusting to being a Mom to a 2½ year-old again. I immediately suspected it was a same sex relationship and it didn't take long to learn, from the return address on the envelope, not hers, but her partners. She is happy, and I felt a tender, supportive feeling for what some people these days still find objectionable, but am happy that she is happy and told her so. Ï also said, ''You didn't mention a name', but whats in a name, as it is the person who counts." I did not yet mention Gay or Lesbian, (snail-mail) as I had changed my email address to no longer receive abusive comments from her...digs...whatever, there was no kindness. Finally I emailed her as said that I believed etiquette called for me to admit to someone we know about her being gay, and show  my love and support for her. I asked her who and she sent pictures of all but did not reply to my request.

With my sister coming, I emailed again with the request, as I said I needed to know if she were telling anyone else in her maternal or paternal family. Still no response. So I am somewhat upset, because 1 week with my sister----Heaven knows-- and I promised she could trust me. She is back in the compartment and all my sister will know is that she is well and happy, as are the kids

Now I suggest that all this would be traumatic for me, if I hadn't shoved then away to sit there unacknowledged, yet known and I just have the one personality. Yet, as with everybody, I can differ in my ways to deal with others. I have never 'lost a space of time' which means another personality has emerges in place of the one before.

Did you ever see the movie 'Sybil'?  13 different (maybe 15) personalities and some were still little children and some were boys.

I promised my sister that I would try to explain compartmentalization to her when she comes and that might be the final understanding she needs to know, to know how much she hurt me when I was in a car crash, 1969, and she cared for my daughter for 2½ months, of the year I was hospitalized, but brought her only once to see me. We had a hell of a row about that back in 1991-2 when I had cried my last!

I moved here with what turned out to be an N, in 1998, and then I was able to finally understand the emotional abuse part. I left him in 2002, and was No Contact with him and previous abusers. I would no longer take emotional abuse, and I developed boundaries, but am very much a loner and nearly 71. I am content. (Well except for being hit by a car Mar, 2o09 and still recuperating, but I have no expectations that anyone MUST look after me.) So I also beleive my independancy began very young, when I just might have fended for myself.

Does this help? Think of a pie cut into 10 pieces. I have 2 small ones, abusive physical pain and emotional pain, and one large one, ME, instead of 10 small ones with different names.

Ask me more if you wish.

xx
izzy

[seasons]

Izzy,

Wow. I'm left a bit speechless and amazed.

Your daughter sending pictures but no names I find very hard to understand. Especially since you expressed your joy for her new happiness.

Your daughter not responding to simple ordinary requests, sounds very familiar to me. Do you think it's their way to make themselves feel more powerful. Or to let you know that's how they play, dirty for no reason. I'm sorry she has hurt you.

I'm fascinated by your sisters visit. It's sounds like it could be such a wonderful time together. At least that's what I'm hoping for you.

I hope she is open to your questions.

Thanks for the pie analogy, it was very helpful as I take in all that you shared. It does make perfect sense. Your strength is remarkable.

I'm going to read this several times, as their is much to learn. Yes I saw Sybil many years ago.

Thank you, seasons xo!

[Izzy_*now*]

Hi seasons

If my daughter wants to have this life and be in touch with only her partner's family, then so be it, but I would expect she would have to courtesy to tell me that, and to tell, or not to tell, her aunt (my sister) but then...

..I see if I tell my sister then I am burdening her with a secret she must keep. I don't see that as fair either, just as not telling her is not 'sharing'. i expect if i don't hear from my daughter in another weeks time, that "She is well and happy, working hard and the kids the same."

She hurt me badly when she married and when she allowed him to cut me out  of her life, and that of the kids... but soon I felt the 'wall' was not mine, and I see it isn't.

If she is not 'ashamed' then she can tell me to blab it to the world.

Down deep in the 'emotional piece of pie' is my love for her, but it has been trampled on for about 27/46 years.

She told me once that she did not want to subject herself and the children, after she separated, to 'your dysfunctional family'. I knew they were, but I didnt think she meant me. Maybe she did.

Sometimes we ALL must be careful of what we say and do to others, because we might fiind those very qualities in our own selves, children or grandchildren, and have to 'eat crow'.

xx
Izzy

[Worn]

Hi Izzy!

I just wanted to chime in on the feeling 'ashamed' about a same sex partnership.  From experience I know it is a complicated and for me scary feeling to know that when you do tell the world you are opening yourself up to their judgments of you and your family.  For me there was always a feeling of 'I need to keep this safe, because I know it can be very unsafe emotionally and or physically if I don't.'  So maybe part of what your daughter is experiencing is fear. 

Just my two cents, Worn

[Izzy_*now*]

hi Worn,

So what about NOT telling the world and just teling your Mom... i.e. me....so for me then, I hold the secret in deference to my D. and do the cover-up! Just because Pflag suggests differently, doesn't mean it is so...

That's as far as it has to go...really!... as her Dad is dead... and she had never been keeping in contact with aunts and uncles and cousins for a # of years...and they all think it is about the dud N husband!

Thanks for commenting! That thought crossed my mind...and in spite of everything I'm happy she is not alone. Her kids are 23.21.18-- her P's kids 2½.4. 6

After all, I, too, have made my own life away from the dysfunction, and a great weight has lifted to be away from toxicity.

Izzy

[ann3]

Hi Izzy,

I very much agree with you re: Dissociative Identity Disorder, compartmentalization, mind control, brain washing, etc and I am so sorry you were subjected to & victimized by it.

Here's my long, drawn out question:  Are you familiar with the "Traumatic Bonding"?   Here's a page on Traumatic Bonding:  http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com/

"Traumatic bonding may be defined as the development of strong emotional ties between two persons, with one person intermittently harassing, beating, abusing, or intimidating the other."

Although that web page primarily discusses romantic relationships, I see a lot of the dynamics which I experienced in my relationship with my parents. And Stockholm Syndrome comes into play with Traumatic Bonding.  I think that when a child is raised with Traumatic Bonding & Stockholm Syndrome, those dynamics are so interwoven in our brains that we have to re-wire our brains to get it out.

The book "The Betrayal Bond: Breaking Free of Exploitive Relationships by Patrick J. Carnes really explores Traumatic Bonding.  I really recommend reading it.    
http://www.amazon.com/Betrayal-Bond-Breaking-Exploitive-Relationships/dp/1558745262

So, now my long, drawn out question becomes a statement:  I think that Dissociative Identity Disorder goes hand in hand with Traumatic Bonding & Stockholm Syndrome.  

OK, now the question: Perhaps DID is the product of subjecting a person to Traumatic Bonding & Stockholm Syndrome?

Would love to know what you think about this.

xoxox,
ann



 

[Hopalong]

Hey Izz,

Maybe you should let your D be the first one to use the L word (or G word)?

Even if she's hinted or made obvious slips like the return address, etc....my understanding is it's still a very very fragile feeling, coming out...

So maybe she's just gone quiet because she's not ready to confidently chat about it yet.

Hang on a while. I don't think she's walled you out again, she just may want this to be really delicate and a dialogue that SHE pushes forward.

Hope I'm right. I can't imagine it's a dead end.

love,
Hops

[Izzy_*now*]

hi ann3

It took me a while to get into the 'traumatic bonding' theory, even though I have understood to a degree was it was, along with Stockholm Syndrome.

I cannot say definitely that was not me, nor that it was but can relate is a few ways.

As far as growing up is concerned I was dependant upon my parents, for food and shelter, and took what was given, partially because of a misguided sense of 'Honor thy father and thy mother'. I knew I couldn't live on my own until I at least finished high school and could be hired at a job full time. So I escaped at age 17. That was the year 16-17 finishing school, that my mother began using a wheelchair. I somehow felt an obligation to go back ever weekend or two and help her clean the house and to wash her hair. I never felt close to them, but they took me, and my 2½ yr old daughter, in when I left my husband, until I found another job and a place of my own. I paid my own way.

When I was with my husband, I stayed out of love and hope he would change, stop drinking because I asked him to. I was naive about alcoholism and didn't even know about AA. (He wasn't a candidate anyway, as he killed himself in 1979, a penniless drunk at age 47.)

I am always able to get on with life alone, although then I had a little daughter. Then I was in a car crash and disabled in 1969 when she was 5. I was back with her in a year, and this is the first I thought about bonding. I felt that our bond was broken then, from a year of not 'being her on hands mother'. I was a afraid for us but all seemed well enough until she was 19 and met her N, whom she married. I really knew then that I was 'fighting another force', her husband. I felt it was impossible and much of my life had been ruled by fears of different proportions, and again another split.....my biggest loss.

With the N I moved her with, I was really taken with him and with his false face felt this was great, and we had so much in common. when we were finally on the road, moving away from all that has 'traumatized me before, he changed to his N self, and I couldn't leave while on the road. We arrived and set up housekeeping and a business, but all the while I knew I had to leave him. I appled for modified housing, at 4 different places and called monthly, each place, and nothing became available. I was concerned about 'my money' being tied into the business, and took back my capital input. He knew I had thoughts of leaving and a few kind words would get me by every now and then to keep things going, but always in the back of my mind I knew that when I found an accessible place, I would be gone.

Though his kind words kept me from leaving, in what would have been an awful mistake, given I had no place to go and that I would be leaving all my furniture etc. I stayed and put up with the abuse. Finally I received a call for accessible housing, and learned I was not disabled enough to be allowed that apartment, and that day also, there suddenly appeared this apartment in the paper. I came and took it, and left.

In the long run, I left every miserable situation, on my own terms, except seeing my daughter and the kids. It was this last move that made me, more seriously than ever before, examine and reexamine my life and the main abusers and why I had always followed that path....well I wouldn't ever again!

I watched part of the Patty Heart movie to get a grasp of her dependence on the goodness of her captors and realized that it wasn't me. I was always free to go, and did when the right time presented itself.

I often thought that I was constantly running away, but I see now that I was always trying to better myself, yet didn't know where to start. Finally enough was enough. I had been seeing therapist on and off since I was 19 and never learned about myself until these past 8 years., when I became more assertive and set my boundaries. Now I still trust everyone, yet no one..... and out of those new people I have a number of acquaintances, but only one who I feel I could trust with my life.  I think she might be my 'replacement daughter' at 40., and we really click.  I love when she receives calls from her loving husband and tells me what he has said, or shows me his texts

But I want to be alone for the rest of my life, no more relationships, whereby I felt that I had to always be the one to fit the others needs and never my own.

I don't know if this answers your question, but I do see the point of T.B. It seems that the physical and emotional things register very briefly in the ME part, then continue on to their own compartment, and I can talk about them without feeling traumatized all over again.

I think I am more inclined to think I had bonded with someone, until something untoward happened and then the bond was broken, and was tucked away to never again retrieve in my 'real life'.

xx
Izzy

[Izzy_*now*]

Yes Hops,

I understand. As usual, I am hanging on, with no emotion attached to this so I would hurt, so if she chooses to never mention it again, or even contact me I can just surmise that they are all fine and in contact with her P''s family.

I also think that this is difficult, as with many things to put to paper.

I will say though, that she has never earned back my trust in her, and I believe every contact is for a reason of her own. This last was to make me aware, but with no further intention of discussing it.

The neverending story....

Love Izzy

[ann3]

Wow, Izzy!!

I think you are a very strong person, with a mind of her own (Thank Gd!, right?), a deep thinker & a spiritual person.  I think you possess a great depth of thinking, character & spirit & despite all the obstacles you face, you are really blessed because you have a "self" which is solid & firm.  I hope you understand what I mean.

Personally, I really relate to the concept of Trauma Bonding & I believe that much of what people call "love" is actually Trauma Bonding & enmeshment.

I am sorry your relationship with your D became painful.  Human emotion can be so complex.  It sounds like you are giving your D lots of room in which to feel comfortable and at the same time, you are taking care of yourself.  You are balancing your D's needs and your needs:  Bravo!!  It's difficult, but you are enlightened.

Wishing you all the best,
xoxox,
ann

[Izzy_*now*]

Thank you ann,

I have an N sister who, as I reexamined my life and relationships with everyone, would take advantage of the fact that I had no boundaries, all my life.  She once said that I thought too much and that I was an 'enigma'. I think that might have been because I had 'compartmentalized' all her scapegoating of me and finally would have no more to do with her shenanigans.

We have had No Contact, for a number of years.

There is another sister, the eldest, who emailed me last year when the car struck me and broke my leg, leading to this past year of still healing after 3 surgeries. She wrote, 'I'm sorry for your broken leg'. I replied, 'My broken leg thanks you!' and that was it! She lives for playing golf.

My brother is the youngest, at 68, a good man, ex-cop and is his own family's man.

Because of the way we were raised, I believe that once away from home, and married, all about age 20, they have lived in that marriage and not much outside of it, regarding their siblings, and related more to their in-laws.

I don't see any depth in those three, yet it could exist but won't share.

So only this younger sister, it appears to me, in spite of her always smiling like little Miss Goody-Twoshoes, has some depth and will deign to speak about her inner self and what she has done to cope. We talk about different things from when we all were little and compare perceptions. I also think she is the only one who would leave her husband for a week to fly 2000 miles to see me, to try to cement a sisterly relationship.

I am glad that I moved here with the N, as I will never be back and won't attend any funerals (I once wrote to one of them that I would require 1 months notice of a death so I could arrange a hand-controlled rental car from Avis) and no one is expected' to look after me in my old age. I can do it alone, whatever befalls and Gd has provided through civil suits for both accidents (if one wants to become a bit cynical about 'no free lunch'. I have suffered for both, but also know nothing can be undone!)'

My 'funeral' is prepaid and my ashes will be shipped back to the family plot, and no one will know about my death, I expect, unless my D. mentions it after receiving a cheque after my Will is probated. How 's that for being independent?  Any other way would be hypocritical of me?

xx
Izzy

 

[ann3]

Oh, Izzy.

You have a big family (4 siblings?) & yet, only one sister seems to be "family" to you.  My N parents used to preach to me about the importance of family & in hindsight, they were all Ns.  A family of Ns.  It's so disillusioning to have a family of Ns.

But, you do have this one sister & it sounds like you can connect with her & that is wonderful!!!!

"My 'funeral' is prepaid and my ashes will be shipped back to the family plot, and no one will know about my death, I expect, unless my D. mentions it after receiving a cheque after my Will is probated. How 's that for being independent?  Any other way would be hypocritical of me?"

Oh, Izzy, what can I say?  Well, I'll say this:  You sure are independent & not hypocritical.  But, until that time comes, I hope you enjoy the heck out of life!! 

xoxo,
ann