panic attacks n'stuff

[Ales2]

I called my T because I have not been since May and I've been getting awful panic attacks over the last month. He called back and wants me to see  a psychiatrist and come in to see him (he's a psychotherapist, PHD, not MD, so cannot prescribe medication) ....but my experience with medication was 19 years ago and very unpleasant. I said I'd never do it again. (I took prozac for 3 months in 1991 when it was fairly new) I dont like how I felt on it - it made me manic,  I was impulsive and my good judgment went out the window. Its like it took away my ability to see the consequences of my actions. My grades got worse, not better and I went overbudget several times and was like uh, no big deal. I also dates guys that were completely wrong for me. (more bad judgement)  I didnt even seem to care or notice the predicament.  Anyway, I dont want more talk therapy or medication. I think the only answer is some kind of anxiety in-patient clinic. I dont think I can cope with this any other way.  The cause of the attackes wont go away its only going to get worse, so I need to find some other way to cope.

Anyone have experience with an in-patient anxiety center? Anything I should be aware of or need to know?

[sKePTiKal]

Hi, Ales...

I've not done the clinics; but I do know something about panic attacks! 

Like you, I didn't want the blissful, above it all state of medication because of the "side effects" of very real consequences in my life; I'd had enough of those without meds!! - but I did do more therapy until I'd uncovered exactly the source of the anxiety that would snowball into one of those awful experiences. I'm kinda tying this post in with the "weird thoughts" you posted in the other thread... you asked there, if it might be blocked memories coming up... and in my experience if one thing leads to another... if just having some of those "weird" moments leads up to a panic attack... then, it could be something like this "coming up" that needs/desperately wants to be addressed. Could be, not is... and only a therapist and you, together, will know for sure.

My T also suggested meds to me, more than once. Don't know about you... but anything that acts on my brain usually works differently in me, than normal. Things that are supposed to make me drowsy get me totally wired, for instance. I think, the reason meds are suggested, is because it's hard enough to dredge up and face and deal with old memories of painful scary times/events... so the theory goes, that if you're medicated just enough to relax, or be in a "what the H--- | nothing bothers me" state of mind - it's easier to face the monsters buried in your mind, and once they are "conscious" - or brought out of the dark corners of your mind, where they're stimulating the anxiety & panics - then, you can begin doing something about them. Here's the deal, though: even if you are able to pull out these memories... identify them... on your own I think you might really benefit from having another person help you think about, feel, and process your way through those things: they are very scary and no matter how thick a skin we think we've developed... or how smart we think we are... we can still be scared to death of things - and that's what the panic attacks are all about; it's yourself telling yourself you're scared about something. It so totally helps to have someone go through it all with you holding your hand (sometimes, literally).

So, I did all my "housekeeping" in the dark corners sans meds. I am a scaredy-cat; a wimp... and I can dance around and away from almost any topic with ease. I am the Queen of excuses and rationalizations, I've been told. It slowed my therapy down, for sure. But my T let me do this in a session (I'm sure she made a note of it!) - and by the next session, I could "go there" and deal with it. Letting me do the ouch-eek-what pain-I'm sure I don't know what you're talking about denial dance turned out to be a very necessary part of my processing method.

Everyone's different... but for me, it was absolutely essential to "know" what was lurking in my mind's dark corners - pull it out into the light, look at it & talk about it - ad nauseum - until I could casually shrug and say: "Yeah, that's a part of my past history. It's OK." None of that stuff - the real events and old buried memories of them - is scary to me anymore. That said: I still struggle with anxiety which can wind itself up and threaten another panic attack. I'm still not medicated. But I have a lot of new simple strategies for dealing with it - I know what I need and I give that|get that for myself - and it goes away; backs off. I am in control of the anxiety; and me; more than I used to be... and that's all I really need. Yet it was a huge miracle and gift after years of not being able to do this - and the only way I could learn how, was from my T. Maybe the clinics will serve the same purpose for you - giving you ways to re-program the anxiety reflexes and throttle them back before they spiral out of control... and that will be enough for you. You could try it and see if it helps. If it doesn't - then maybe you've got some giant dustbunny rolling around in a forgotten corner of your brain that needs to be domesticated or banished... you can decide then, if you need help (reassurance, company, feedback) pulling it out and taking a good look at it in the daylight.

It will be OK, Ales... whatever you decide to do.

[Overcomer]

I am not sure what is causing them, but I am experiencing them too.  I was always pretty stable but now flying makes me freak out.  Mine is mostly claustrophobic panic.

I now have anti anxiety medication........Adivan.........I will never fly without it.

Is it because I feel so out of control.......?  Because I am on chemo?  Who knows?

Maybe it has something to do with my past.....

All I know is THEY are NOT fun!!

[Ales2]

Things have progressed to the point now where I can not get through the day without a panic attack, sometimes twice, mostly later afternoon as I realize another day is gone.  If I make it through the weekend without an attack, I will see my T, if not, my friends/neighbors have instructions to take me to the psych ward at the hospital that is 7 minutes from my house.  Hopefully, I wont end up there, but its still a week away before I can get to a clinic.

This also jeopardizes my apartment and my job - so hopefully, that wont happen. 

[ann3]

Ales,
So sorry to hear you're going thru this.  Xanax works very well for me because it stops the physical elements of the panic attack.  So, if I feel a panic attack coming on, I take a Xanax (5 mg) & then the physical aspects of the panic attack do not occur.  But, be careful with xanax since it can be addictive, although I don't have that problem with it.

In addition to xanax, I think weekly therapy is essential.  Cognative Behavioral Therapy is good, but EMDR worked wonders for me.  EMDR is often used for Post Traumatic Stress, but based on the intensity & frequency of the panic attacks you describe, perhaps you may be suffering from PTSD.  Some experts believe that being raised in an N environment can cause something like chronic PTSD.

Just remember that the "good" thing about panic attacks is that they can be treated & with the right meds & therapy, you can get to the point where you may never have them again, or if you go have them, they will be smaller & quicker & you will feel better equipped to handle them.
Hope you feel better soon.

ps:  check this out:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adH1l3rrtJM

[debkor]

I had them.  They would come out of the blue.  It was a big conflict inside myself and happened when I first made my move out of parents house.  Jobs would be new, new state, broke up with b/f and oh boy....I had one when I was driving home and attached it to driving at night. Then I would have an attack if it was getting dark and I had to drive.

That went on for some time then I had attacks over possibly going to have an attack and a book stopped mine about anxiety.
I'm sorry I don't remember the name

I remember something about hitting my leg and imagine a big stop sign....count and it would lessen.  I even had anxiety for a bit if I forgot the book.

Deb

[sKePTiKal]

Ales, sweetie - nix the psych ward instructions... you aren't a danger to yourself or others!!

Here are a couple simple things to do to ward off, slow down, the panic long enough that you can talk yourself out of "going there"... I hope they help until you can get to your T or the clinic. I do want to second Ann's suggestion about the xanax as a possibility; I've heard other people say that this works wonders for them. (and yes, PTSD is possible from the kinds of FOOs we've had - but remember that it's possible to recover from PTSD, OK?)

NOW: the most important trick to remember, is to pay attention to your breathing. You want to breathe s-l-o-w and easy... in and out...don't force anything that doesn't feel natural, just watch yourself breathe slow... gradually relaxing your mind (which is probably qualifying for the next NASCAR race) into being "in" your body. If adding part 2 is more difficult... well, it is for everyone - it's not just you... but you can help the part 2 process along by adding just one more thing:

hold your hands, cupped; fingertips touching comfortably in front of your torso - like you were holding a soft fuzzy baby kitten or delicate flower - when you slowly breathe in - let your hands drift apart and as you exhale, let them come back together. This is enough for your mind to focus on... to interrupt the mental racing, so open your eyes and watch your hands! (how else are you going to get your fingers back together, right?) The goal is to feel like you are in your body... to feel your fingertips, your toes, your nose... to simply be aware of your body, your breathing...

and this is often enough to stop a runaway panic attack and let you feel in control of your body again. Do the exercise for as long as it feels good to do it... that is as long as YOU need to do the exercise... and if you do this every time you need to, eventually the time involved shortens on it own, as does the frequency... because you are "grounding" yourself in your body and in control of it.

If that seems to work, then there is another, longer and more involved exercise that works more like a vaccinnation against these attacks, rather than first aid. But I won't clutter up your brain space with that just yet - try the breathing & hands first and see if this helps.

[Hopalong]

Ales, I'm so very sorry you're going through this.

I had disabling panic attacks throughout my 20s, some in my 30s. They gradually tapered off and now I have not had one for many years. Occasionally, the signal of the familiar symptoms (in my case, it was always heralded by dizziness and chest pain--and especially shortness of breath. Gasping inability to feel I was taking in enough oxygen. I also had them driving, and in my 20s, reacted with a degree of near-agorophobia for some time).

I still to this day always carry 5 mg. of diazepam, because I know if I take it immediately, it will nip it in the bud and never become a full-blown attack. (It's always hard to remember when you're in the grip of one, but they are self-limited...they come, peak, and do pass.) My memories of those are so powerful that I am very happy to take it when I need it. Now, usually, only once or twice a year.

I can't say I know what would be right for you, in terms of medication or hospitalization, but I can share that for me, having the Rx on hand was very important in giving me a sense of safety, a way to manage an acute attack. It gave me a plan and a physical take-the-edge-off-terror that I just wasn't able to achieve rationally. I always worry about dependency because I was such an addicted smoker and always alarmed by dependency...but it has never happened. I dislike taking anything that affects the CNS (central nervous system) and because taking too much would trigger apnea, which is even more scary, I have a built-in resistance to taking it unless absolutely needed.

I'm talking about the benzodiazepine or similar anti-anxiety medication, above. For many people who have panic disorder, they also have depression. I definitely was clinicially depressed as well as ripped up by panic attacks...they overlapped, so I thought of it as "depxiety."

Fortunately for me, the SSRIs tend to reduce BOTH anxiety and depression. I am no longer on them now, but for a decade or two, antidepressants (various SSRIs) was a godsend. I had several intervals of several years when I did not take them. But when I needed the help, I needed it, and was grateful they were there. While I did therapy too. It's been years now with no need for Rx--but I'm 60. My alternate methods do work pretty well. (SAD light, exercise--when I do it, which I haven't been!--and lots of tea.) And just getting older helps too. When my anxiety was at its worst I cut caffeine out.

Another tip that helped me was loosely closing a small paper bag around my nose and mouth and breathing into that until my symptoms subsided.

Let us know how it's going and what you decided.
(I did not like Prozac. Effexor was helpful to me, and the last time I took them, it was Cymbalta. Very helpful.)

Hops

[Ales2]

Thanks but I wont take medications they are awful. I haven't tried very many, but the ones I did I couldn't take for more than 3 days without feeling much, much worse. I tried all that the therapy stuff, thought stopping and anxiety control and got no relief. I tried accupuncture and yoga and some EMDR stuff and nothing helps. I also have no health insurance, so no place to go and try something else. I'm also terrified to put anything on a medical record so I am running out of ideas.
My T is not calling me back. go figure. 

[sKePTiKal]

Hey - it's been a couple days - how are you? Are you feeling a little better? Is there anything we can do for ya? Has anything changed?

[Hopalong]

FWIW...when I was disabled by panic disorder I didn't care what went on my medical record...

There has been not one negative consequence of seeking medical help for those issues, in 40 years.

Hops

[SallyingForth]

Hi Ales2,
Before you take one more step in the therapy direction, you might want to look at the possibility of a medical problem.

For years I suffered with panic attacks as well. I thought they were only connected to my abuse. It wasn't until I got treated for thyroid disease that I learned I about panic attacks as a symptom of the disease. I had Thyroid Disease for 30 years before being diagnosed. Therefore, TD magnified the panic attacks I had from abuse.

And now I found it can also be a symptom of Vitamin B12 deficiency. Most Thyroid Disease sufferers have Vitamin B12 deficiency as well. Some people don't absorb Vitamin B12 in the small intestine as they should.

Whenever I had a panic attack and was remembering something it was a confirmation it happened. If I had panic attacks without a memory (yet) I'd dive into my basement (mind) knowing there was a memory about to emerge. Panic attacks were my signal to look further.

I had one doctor who tried to medicate them away. It didn't work. I preferred the "look into thyself" method of self-medication.

[Ales2]

Thanks everybody for the posts - much appreciated.