Author Topic: N-Counsleor (NSaint)  (Read 5768 times)

Hopalong

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Re: N-Counsleor (NSaint)
« Reply #30 on: May 14, 2011, 10:09:21 PM »
I'm not judging you, Lise, truly...

When my brother slandered and attacked me I literally could not think of anything else.

I was shuddering with PTSD, I think, and just as you describe, it was wave after wave.

Every encounter (or, in my case, forced communication due to the legal conflict) was a trigger for just the same kind of voicing.

When I say it worries me, that's not a criticiam...I just meant it straightforwardly.

You are right. When there is pain a wound has to be emptied and cleansed.
And it makes a lot of sense that for you this experience echoed the original wounds from your Nmother.

I'm glad this voicing, here or anywhere, has been part of the healing process for you.

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Gabben

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Re: N-Counsleor (NSaint)
« Reply #31 on: May 15, 2011, 05:43:44 PM »
Hi Hops,

I take your worry as coming from a caring friend who has to stand back and watch someone writhing in pain. Thank you. But it did hit a nerve in me, obviously. However, it was healing for me to have to face the part of me that has hated myself for the not so graceful way and person I became in the face of a long, slow murder of what I loved in this world such as my ministry work, parish, friends, self respect and dignity, reputation (what little I had) and at times my sanity and time spent on healing the traumas.

The other day I realized, once again, that she has given me more than she took. The abuse as you so well put "echoed" my mom which allowed for the cleansing and healing of my soul of so much toxic stuffed feelings and experience, making me lighter and more free than ever before. I grew in wisdom more in the last few years than my entire life.  I grew softer and  more gentle, especially after coming to terms with my dark rage and hatred which sometimes spilled out of my toxic tongue and sometimes spilled out in tender tears. But the best of what she gave me is still yet to come.

I am still learning that part of why I was so affected by her was because her and I are similar. She craves the world of praise, esteem, attention and most especially, N's favorites food, pure admiration. I too have loved these worldly blessings, and wrestled with them, especially because I was not fed enough love as a child. But slowly I have filled in my huge vaccum holes, the emptiness from never receiving love by grieving the holes small and praying them closed.

The most important lesson, I realized, in my own battle of envy was that I was envious of her worldly gains. But then I realized that the worldly gains would cut me off from true love and true growth. My envy once again served a good purpose in helping me see what is most important is not what I gain and take in but what I give and let go of.

Peace and hugs you to Hops.







« Last Edit: May 15, 2011, 09:32:24 PM by Gabben »

river

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Re: N-Counsleor (NSaint)
« Reply #32 on: May 15, 2011, 05:51:26 PM »
Hope you come back Gabgen, it has been a valuable thread for me.   Its such a sensitive area, talking about this.  

An issue I have is getting intrusive thoughts.   Im sure its from N damage along the way, but now I get it just if someone doesnt like me.  theres someone in my training group, and I've been getting her face in my mind there to prove Im crap and shes got everything right etc.  Its mad.   She's not even that bad, she just doensnt like me and I know it.  

Ive been thinking about the amends bit.  What Im settling for is that for me the amends is to 'do the right thing' regardless of how difficult.  Ie aim to do the right thing in the universe, to seek God's will.   But that's really hard sometimes.  I dont know if I should be doing the training Im doing, Im half way through.  But thats another subject.  Hope you come back.  But not if you're better off outta here for a while.  

river.
ps, whilst I was writing this, you were writing previous post. 

Gabben

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Re: N-Counsleor (NSaint)
« Reply #33 on: May 15, 2011, 10:17:48 PM »
Hi River,

Yes, amends are hard but the more you make them the easier they get. Amends are sort of like our discovery of drinking. When I made my real first amends I had no idea how I was going to feel afterwards, the drink of peace that came over me, propelling me to want to keep cleaning up my past. My ego got smaller as my courage got bigger. Sometimes you just have to take the bit and pull yourself to it, as the BB says.

I can understand about the introjections of people not liking us, that stuff hurts. For a long time I did not want to face the N, not so much because I could not face myself but because she looked at me with such a convinced look of pity and shame, as if I was just so beyond help, someone to be really pitied, it was part justification for her shunning of me. It was painful for me because she was so held up in my faith community and, at the time I was in my wounds from childhood where I did not get enough loving mirroring that children need in order to develop a healthy self image and sense of self worth. It was a very painful bath of confusion for me on top of so much more going on in my life. No wants to be looked at with so much contempt and despise, correct? Especially from a counselor. Her looking at me with either contempt, as I had seen her do too many times in our work together, or her looking at me like I was super mentally ill was like a thorn pressing in on a thorn in my side. At this time I was super vulnerable as I was trying to work the old thorn of trauma out, the lack of love and mirroring for the wounds are the place of healing. 

As time went on I would eventually try to imagine what it would be like to face her, I would, like you say, get an introjection of her look of disgust and pity towards me and it would turn my stomach. But I have actually used that introjection to as a measuring stick to my healing. As I have worked to embrace my wounded parts of myself, the parts of self that I once hated that she was reflecting back at me, I now can imagine being around her and having her look at me with the look of fear/contempt/pity as I call it and I would be barely unchanged.

Mother Teresa says that if we are truly humble then we will be unchanged by neither praise nor discouragement. This for me means getting to know myself and accept all of me that was hidden in the dark of my mind and soul, the parts of self which included my shadow as well as my own N traits. Today I am growing closer to trust of myself, acceptance of my good bad and ugly. Humility is about seeing things as they are, seeing ourselves as we are. If you read the AA literature and any real spiritual writings you will find that the most important ingredient for growth is humility or honestly, rigorous honesty. But we need safe others, who will not judge us in order to face ourselves.

Thinking about this sort of blows me away because the N counselor seems beyond grace in that no matter how many mirrors of truth were held up to her she is alway convinced that everyone else is in the wrong. Therefore her seeing me as beyond help is actually her ultimate projection of the part of her that is beyond seeing the truth about herself. Through her I learned what the word reprobate soul means, someone who God has tried to reach out to save so many times but after awhile God, in His non-forceful way of giving us a free will, allows souls to just be left to the mind they have, to believe their own lies. However, I continue to prayer for her, really prayer for her in my spirit of love and how I would imagine God would want me to care for her, the way that He does. It is working; I am feeling better but most importantly I am changing.

You might ask yourself what this woman who you think does not like you is bringing up for you. She is getting under you skin for a reason, God is in working in this for you as He does every moment of our lives. We, who have grown up in N homes, have our own N wounds to heal.

 

Gabben

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Re: N-Counsleor (NSaint)
« Reply #34 on: May 16, 2011, 10:19:52 AM »
Hi River,

This morning I awoke with the a few painful introjections of some people I know who have stong dislike or judgements of me. I was reminded of the parables or sayings of the pearl such as "pearl's of wisdom."

The images of others criticisms of me are like grains of sand under my skin, afflicting irritants. But I know that they are also messengers from God in that they will teach me something if I open myself and stay honest. I can turn these irritants into pearls of wisdom, shine.

In my pain I realized that what irritates me is criticism from others, especially others looks. I've worked on this much, but here it is again, up for me so I guess God is calling me to work on it MORE.

In addition to not getting loving affirming mirrors as a child I also received a lot of criticism from my mom. I think that part of the reason I am so easily afflicted by others eyes or judgements is because of the shaky foundation, my inner child so to speak, who still does not know who she is or does not carry a healthy realistic self-image.

I'm doing some reading and praying today to get more insight and understanding of this about myself so I do not give my power away, as our BB says when we allow others to dominate us.

Gabben

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Re: N-Counsleor (NSaint)
« Reply #35 on: May 16, 2011, 10:25:09 AM »
I also realize that I need to embrace the child in me who is simply just wounded, fully allow her to feel the hole in her, the space in her that was meant for a healthy self  and grieve never having had a healthy self image as I work to build trust with myself. Others will always be there to criticize me and judge me, so my task is to work for freedom and even love as my response. As I said above it is about facing and owning something in me as well as just simply embracing my cross, suffering, which helps to diminish my defects of character, my defenses so that I can see more clearly.


river

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Re: N-Counsleor (NSaint)
« Reply #36 on: May 17, 2011, 06:33:58 PM »
Quote
   I can understand about the introjections of people not liking us, that stuff hurts. For a long time I did not want to face the N, not so much because I could not face myself but because she looked at me with such a convinced look of pity and shame, as if I was just so beyond help, someone to be really pitied, it was part justification for her shunning of me. It was painful for me because she was so held up in my faith community     

Isnt that just like it goes.  Look good on the outside, well respected in community, and projecting all thier disowned shame into/ onto someone, a designated person.   Its kind of funny when you're not affected, but lethal when you are.  And its endlessly adaptable and clever.   

Quote
  like I was super mentally ill was like a thorn pressing in on a thorn in my side. At this time I was super vulnerable as I was trying to work the old thorn of trauma out, the lack of love and mirroring for the wo   
This kind of stuff is hard to find words adequate for huh?  the only thing I've read that comes anywhere close is Scott-Peck 'the lie within  the lie'. 

Quote
   You might ask yourself what this woman who you think does not like you is bringing up for you.   
What I made of this one is this:  How I have come to understand what has happened to me is that I have a disorder which is commonly a result, or response to the influence of an N in developmental years.    A syptom of this disorde is being sort of 'invadable' mentally.   So I just sort of laughed at the absurdity of having this woman in my mind when she shouldnt be.   In this case it was more an OCD thing than a real 'something to learn' type thing, except it was about dealing with intrusive thoughts, which I have learnt you have to give them very little respect. 
I've been working with a new fellowship specifically oriented around this disorder.   And what you have said about ammends is of interest to me.  Thinking in terms of aiming at the highest good in any given situation, but either way, it gets one out of and above that drivenness, and anxiety etc, but I get sucked under so so much of the time.  And sometimes I'm triggered to that its like a mental change, altered reality, and I cant control the getting out of it.   Im so easily feel shame.   Then theres a lot to be improved in my life, but I have to do it because its genuine, not because of running from shame that I feel