self-doubt

[Hopalong]

I want to be honest with myself almost as I want comfort sometimes.

I recently wrote an email appeal to my closest church friends, 4 women, to ask if one would come help me for 2 hours to prepare for a yard sale. With my back, it's daunting on my own. At the close of the email I asked them to let me know either way as soon as they received it. I offered to help any of them for several hours any time they needed to clean or declutter, etc.

Bottom line: nobody answered.

That set off a spiral of unpleasant self-talk. In a nutshell, I looked at myself as a greedy needy person who is always asking my community for support. That's an exaggeration, but it's true that in recent years I've been quite outspoken when I've needed help. Most of the time, I have paid my friend to do things. But on several occasions when I've been overwhelmed, I've appealed either to the church as a whole (once several years ago when I cried over my D, that was just asking for emotional support) and once when I wrote the women's group asking to borrow or rent a spare vehicle for a time if anyone had one. The candlelighting was fine, but after that I felt I didn't want to speak often in "Joys and Sorrows" any more. I felt ashamed of how often I had done so, and thought it was genuine but also narcissistic. (Know it when I feel it wiggle.) The car? A woman just handed me the keys to one she didn't use, and she and I have become good friends. I was dazed by her generosity and it anchored my feelings about what the community should be.

Hmmm. One more thing. I placed a notice for housesitting and dogsitting, and the newsletter editor (a very very bossy person) lectured me about how that was inappropriate in the church publication. I felt shamed (again).

A lot of it has to do with feelings about class, and money, and struggling, and how it is in this community, which is for the most part quite well-to-do.

Anyway, I forgive myself. But the lack of response to my email asking for yard sale help just seems like an opportunity to rethink my sense of entitlement. I don't want to over-react and withdraw, from either my friends (who really are friends) or my community (which really is my community). But the shock and hurt I felt that nobody wrote back...got me reflecting. Why? Could it be they didn't reply because they thought it was a self-absorbed or demanding kind of message?

I'm going to a movie with one of them, whom I trust deeply, this afternoon. So I think I'll ask her for some honest feedback about it. And then if she confirms there has been an Nvibe coming off me, it will be safe to hear. I know I'm "not an N". But that doesn't mean I can't slip into those behaviors sometimes. I had that modeled, for sure. And when I'm under a lot of stress it may be that I default to that more than I know.

I hope it's all just a big oversensitive thing. I will certainly shake it off but it gave me pause.

And I think pause, some self-reflection and greater accountability, is what I need.

Thanks for listening,

Hops

[Guest]

Dear ((((((Hops))))))

what others do is not because of you.

Everyone has their own stuff; that's probably the reason nobody replied.

Yeah, ask! Did you get my email? would be a good start.

oh and:

I placed a notice for housesitting and dogsitting, and the newsletter editor (a very very bossy person) lectured me about how that was inappropriate in the church publication

WTF???????????????????? maybe I should apply to place an ad for my ESCORT SERVICE?

[sKePTiKal]

Could it be they didn't reply because they thought it was a self-absorbed or demanding kind of message?

Not a chance in hell, Hops. That's the kind of reflex thinking I have - about taking care of myself - and it's insidiously manipulative. IMO - it's condemning oneself for having needs. As to why they didn't reply - well, there's probably a lot of reality based stuff going on you know? And when faced with a situation like this, I've come to realize that my expectations of others may have been too great, too vaguely communicated, or even something I thought I said - but didn't in reality. Or they're involved in their own internal self-doubt, lack of commitment, or emotional upheaval. Whatever - thinking that it's too "N" of you to ask for help when you need it and the reality is that you need it a lot considering the "piling on" of things that you're dealing with - that's something I do to myself, TOO MUCH, and it's just an internalized continuation of the same old abusive relationships I experienced with my FOO.

Additionally, there is a real phase of self-absorption that we go through while we're healing... when, for the first time in our lives, it's all about US. I do believe that "we're allowed" this... as long as it also doesn't become a habit - that - in our own time - it's finally balanced with how much we give... how much we let others "in" again... and also our choices for dealing with FOO.

I'm going to visit mom in the hospital today; bro has already been jerking me around - need to you to babysit... wife comes home... he's still there and going to drive all night to another state for a funeral... so I left and went back to my hotel. I'd been on the road yesterday since 7 am and it was now 9:30 at night. I needed to relax, not have conversations that I needed to be "on my toes" for, let my muscles and brain just relax into sleep. Was that N? I could've slept there, sure... but would I really have slept?

This isn't "intentional" jerking around, as in GS's nomenclature. It's part & parcel of the dysfunction in his new FOO... he doesn't even realize what he's doing, I don't think. So I'm not angry or upset. Just choosing my own path... staying on it... And trying to balance that with being helpful. And also - realizing that I'm ALLOWED to do this.

If you don't hear anything from your friends re: help on Monday - start looking for it somewhere else! You have my permission to ask for as much help as you think you need - until you've hit a comfortable plateau - WITHOUT feeling guilty, selfish, needy or N.


(((((((HOPS))))))))

[Izzy_*now*]

Hey Hops,

First....how did you email the 4 'friends'....Cc to 3 and one in To? Bcc all and you in To? 4 separate emails?--

Just wondering about any preference shown?

Iz

[Twoapenny]

Hops,

We were moving house one year, two days after Christmas.  My little boy was only two years old.  It was our second house move in just over a year and in between I'd had a breakdown and been in hospital three times. I emailed several friends, thinking it was less intrusive than phoning over the Christmas period, asking for help, just like you have.  I got no replies, just like you.  I felt exactly the same about it as you do now!  I never mentioned it to any of them, I was just too embarassed.  But I heard back via another friend that none of them were able to, for genuine reasons, but all felt too bad to say so so had kind of just done nothing.  I think we were all suffering from an inability to be direct; me by not just calling and asking them and them by not just saying, really sorry, can't do it.

The request you've made is very, very reasonable.  It's a limited amount of time (and not much time at that), there's a genuine reason for your need for help and you've offered to do something in return.  That would be a very fair offer to a stranger on the street, but to friends - well, it shouldn't really be necessary to offer something in return but the fact that you have makes your request even more reasonable.

There are probably genuine reasons why none of them has replied yet, but you making an unreasonable demand isn't one of them!  As for placing an unsuitable ad - what nonsense.  I hope you hear back from one of your friends soon, even if it's just for them to say really sorry, can't do it.  But hopefully the mail just hasn't got to them yet and you'll get something more positive.

((((((((((((((((((((((((Hops))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[cgm1028]

What is the point of being in a community where, at times, we cannot ask for help.  I don't know the particulars of your friends or your community, but it doesn't seem like you have your hat and hand out every week for favor.  I also know its hard for those of us who were raised by NM to ask for help.  Our needs were never met, ignored, minimized, etc., so we learned early on to suppress ourselves.  Now that we are healing, we realize its not weakness, but good sense to reach out when necessary.

From my own personal experience, many years ago my husband and I went through a very rough patch and we separated.  Instead of embracing us or trying to be supportive, especially in a community that thought divorce was a sin, we were shunned.  It was painfully eye-opening.  When I was at my lowest, feeling like a failure, worrying over the effects on my children, grieiving what I thought was the end of my marriage and or course all the nonense that my NM was pulling, no one in my spiritual community offered any support.  It was like I had a disease they were afraid of catching.  I left that community and found one that would be there for me (and have been) through my good times and bad times. 

I'm sure when asked, you are there for those in need.  Maybe you just need to find a community that sees the two-way street.

[mudpuppy]

I looked at myself as a greedy needy person who is always asking my community for support.

Begging off is one thing, not even answering quite another. Maybe you look at yourself too much and your community too little. Maybe?

mud

[Hopalong]

Thanks everybody. I'm feeling better about it. My friend I saw last night hadn't even seen it, which I knew was possible (she only checks email about once a week). She promised to let me know if it had a demanding vibe to it or anything, to her view, when she reads it. And we're okay.

I will just ask the other 3 sometime. But in person, not by email. One, when I think on it, allows me to "drive" the friendship. I do believe her when she says how much she values me, but on the other hand, I'm periodically triggered by the sense that if I didn't contact her, she'd never pick up the phone and contact me. It's not that there's not real mutual affection, it's that the initiating isn't reciprocal. A lot of that is due to her being a real introvert.

Tupp. Wow and ouch. You were there. Thanks for what you said about the inability to be direct. Very key. Email is a comfort zone for me. Seems so "efficient". But still, I think calling would have been better.

All of it really goes waaaaaaaaaaaaaay back to when I was a little girl, rejected by other girls. As a grown woman, I have to be careful I am not reading in rejection where none's intended.

Thanks, Mud. Naww. I'm all sorts of exasperated at various things. But it still feels like where I belong. Some of the time, I'm really tuned in to outer faults that I can just easier find within myself, and that's where the satisfying "progress" is. Most of the time, I'm just grateful to belong. I should keep an open mind though. Maybe even go some other places just to deepen my awareness of other communities. That is always a good thing.

CGM, I'm so glad you were able to find a new community--what a painful time you went though. For me, this is the only one in town.

[Izz, I just sent it to myself and openly CCd the four.]

TT--I did understand the newsletter "rule" once explained (though it's been totally inconsistentl applied). It's honestly the way she explained it that was unfriendly. But...she of course has been put in charge of "Communciations". It's kind of fuNNy. Big voices get big jobs!

Thanks, PR...you're right about the connection about being a child of N. Still, I am wary of my Nspots. I appreciate the support though and will consider myself given permission to take up oxygen!

Guest, that was funny. A "spiritual escort" service. Hey, might be a good gig!

Hope I didn't miss anybody. Gotta dash. We're getting a new minister after 3 years of interims and everybody's excited. He's very nice--smart, deep hearted, asks tough questions, great humor, and is going to create joy. (Juggles and used to be a clown.) I think he may shake up the stuffiness and be very good for us!

love,
Hops

[Gaining Strength]

Hops, in the 10 years since my husband died I have has many situations akin to the one you are writing about here.  The pain is indescribable.  Before my husband died I NEVER asked anyone for help.  Then I began asking, everyi now and then for things that I simply couldn't do on my own.  I have not had success in that request yet - and yet - I know many people who are often helped by their friends, their communities. 

I can't really explain this or not yet understand it but something there is that causes children of Ns to either not be able to ask in a way that is received or something.  but, evident by several responses, you are not alone - and yet - I know so many who get so much help ....

I have allowed it to hit me hard so many times - knock me lower than I already was (am). 
I have little to boost you concerning this - I simply share your pain and I hope in some small metaphysical way I can lift your burden hawever slightly by caring. - yours gs

[lighter]

Thanks everybody. I'm feeling better about it. My friend I saw last night hadn't even seen it, which I knew was possible (she only checks email about once a week).


I was thinking your friends just hadn't gotten back to you yet..... or one or two had decided you were already flush with help, and would ask again if you still needed them.

She promised Hope I didn't miss anybody. Gotta dash. We're getting a new minister after 3 years of interims and everybody's excited. He's very nice--smart, deep hearted, asks tough questions, great humor, and is going to create joy. (Juggles and used to be a clown.) I think he may shake up the stuffiness and be very good for us!
Ak.  When we received our new pastor, it was such a huge event.  Everyone turned up, and he didn't juggle, but her cetainly didn't dissapoint.  What a huge event.  I remember my oldest child, sitting at my feet, trying to remain calm while she was feeling worse and worse.  I think we infected the entire proceeding with the Swine Flu that day, with the church so packed, there was standing room only: /  Enjoy.

Lighterlove,
Hops

[Meh]

I like your post Hops.

I'm female and unmarried and even simple tasks like needing to move furniture can be this source of shame for me because it's something I simply can not do all by myself.

Shame for needing help and questioning the value and depth of community. These are things I can relate with.