Being told that I sound "whiny"

[nolongeraslave]

edit.

[Hopalong]

hi (((((((NLAS)))))))

Good to hear from you.

Here's the key. I believe it's the absolute key to your healing and ultimate maturation and full adulthood.
(I am not preaching because I LIVED WITH my Nmother as an adult, as Cinderella....I was in my 50s before I began to emotionally free myself. And it still took a while. I didn't know there was a key. In my own mind. I didn't see it, I couldn't hold it in my hand, I had no faith in it, and I was well hypnotised.)

But nonetheless, pot calling kettle black, I will tell you that I believe with decades of study, that this is your key:

I can't avoid my mom

Assertiveness.
Boundaries. Obsessing with figuring out what they are and how to do them.
Determination to be healthy. And happy.

Then...you'll feel the key in your hand.

And you'll see that quote in a whole new way.

love,
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

I don't think you should just reject your roommates observation, completely out of hand. I don't think it's the slam you might've thought it was... or at least, that possibility does exist.

My voice literally changes pitch, sound, even my grammar changes when I'm around my mom or brother. One of my kids pointed it out to me and I dismissed it -- until I heard it myself. Was I ever freaked out!!  LOL...

I finally decoded it; what it meant for me (your particular reaction might differ)... for me it was camoflauge; if I sounded like them, I could hide the real me somewhere where it was safer... adding some "extra distance" between us...

and I think also, that it was a very child-like way of expressing what hurt me; what wounded me so deeply... if I could completely mimic their tone of voice - the lack of compassion, caring, and the controlling "do it my way - I'm always right"... then maybe someday someone would see and hear -- and help me. They would know that the only way a child could take that tone... would be if they'd experienced it first hand. Problem was - I was no longer that child so the effect on people around me was quite different.

Now, it's just something I watch for. When it occurs, I know I need to step back and reassess my boundaries, center myself, get a grip again before proceeding... even allow myself an emotional time-out of a few days, if necessary.

[Hopalong]

Not rambling...that was very clear, imo.

Well, if moving to lower-LC is not an option for you right now, what's left?

I think it's that you can change the feeling and atmosphere and direction of your contacts with her.
You can't change her. But you can still set boundaries within conversation (conversations with Nmothers are a great arena for, literally, practicing boundary-setting--looking at each contact as another opportunity to practice assertion, and boundaries. It can be a very healthy way to make changes within the same quantity of contacts. You can choose to change the quality if you don't want to change the quantity).

Examples would be:
--changing the amount of time you spend on the phone
--using a timer for yourself to end things after a time period you have previously decided you'd like to spend on it. (Iow, not being led simply by the fact that you are talking with her...to an open-ended amount of time. You CAN tell yourself before you choose to answer a call from her: I would like to be on the phone for 10 minutes. Then literally set a timer and when it runs out, you take an action.
--intentionally changing your tone of voice
--doing other things to control the conversation rather than just react to it, such as
....ask her questions in a new subject area you don't talk about normally, like old family stories, get some useful/interesting history
....change the subject if she begins repeating about something you know you don't want to discuss (really DO that, this is boundary-setting
....set some new limits on yourself as to what YOU are willing to talk about
....set cues by the phone to remind you of a NEW behavior you are going to undertake during the timed call, such as a breathing exercise
...intentionally change your tone of voice again. Stay conscious. Beware feelings of hypnosis.
--change the location of where you talk to her. If you usually sit down, stand up. Go outside and plant something (great antidote, to have your fingers in a pot of dirt, connects you to something larger and more powerful than a phone conversation).
--use the speakerphone for the entire call and while it's happening, decide to chop 6 cups of vegetables. Freeze them.
--use the speakerphone and clean something very carefully
--use the speakerphone and go through a pile of clothes or linens and select 1/3 of them to donate
--use the speakerphone and paint a watercolor (if you did a watercolor during every Nmother phone call, you'd have a body of work)

love,
Hops

[BonesMS]

"At the same time, I feel guilty for telling someone and worry about my parents being shamed."

Given what our NWomb-Donors and NSperm-Donors did to us, they should be shamed.  No child deserves to be abused in any way, shape, or form.

Bones

[Hopalong]

Another great key for you, NLAS, and it's smart for you to see this:

I'm conscious about talking "like an adult" in front of my mom. I know she will just give attitude, so it's more "safe" assuming the child role.

The battle in you will be won when you get good and tired of being childlike.

You are a woman.

You are an adult.

You could choose to stay infantilized your entire life to keep your mother from experiencing her own growth (discomfort).

But I don't think you will.

Forgive just a little more about speakerphone and why I think it would be such a healthy tool for you to try. I may be wrong, but I think one thing that happens to you is that when you place the phone to your ear you let your mother's voice go deeply and directly into your mind. You are instantly in an invisible, old, sealed and aquarium-like previous world of helplessness. And this experience is hypnotic to you--not literally, but metaphorically--and you regress.

Distancing, literally, by placing the phone NOT at your ear (putting it on speaker) gives you more of the detachment and objectivity of an adult while she's talking. You can still sound the same or choose to say the same kinds of responses--so she won't know the difference--but I swear, if you started doing this, you will have new thoughts during your conversations.

Different thoughts. Helpful ones.

Nothing to lose by trying it...but for at least 3 calls before you give it up. (You don't even need to tell her she's on speaker. If she says anything about sound, you just go, Oh, my phone's been a little funny, there is that better? And move it to a new position.)

Hops

[sKePTiKal]

I may be wrong, but I think one thing that happens to you is that when you place the phone to your ear you let your mother's voice go deeply and directly into your mind.

I don't think you're wrong Hops... I am always aware of this (from a safe distance, now) when I talk to my mom. Let me add a little to this idea... you know how we have "tapes" of nasty things our moms told us about, that run off of mysterious triggers in our minds? How did they get there? I swear, my mom literally whispered into my ear.... certain things.... oh so Gollum-like... I REMEMBER her doing this and the terrible things she said. But as a little girl, who was not allowed to "be" herself and have that self-boundary... I had absolutely no defenses, except my own mind, to ward off those things.... as best I could. It's easy to overwhelm a child, you know? Even when what's being suggested seems like twilight-zone stuff and there is absolutely no supporting, rational evidence for the position stated in those whispers.

Your other tips are spot-on, too. My T proposed just the same kinds of things to me to deal with the regular phone calls from my mom. After a few years, the calls aren't so regular anymore... and from my new safe "hearing distance"... it's really clear that all these calls are intended to do is simply prop up her delusion that she's a caring mother. She only asks "safe" questions about me - what are you doing? how's your weather? Nothing about my kids or grandkids... my husband doesn't even exist for her (I doubt she can remember his name; we'll be married 11 years this fall.)... nor even my dog's name. She knows zip about my life and doesn't show any interest whatsoever in it. The few times I've volunteered things... it's been twisted around to fit the only pattern of negativity she holds in her mind... most of the time, it's just the same old, same old broken record monologue from her... unless someone where she lives has decided to be independent of how she thinks they should be... then, I have to listen to how shameful and sick that person is...

Safe Listening Distance is absolutely enlightening, in other words...

anyway - the "safe hearing distance" is absolutely one of the most valuable things I brought out of therapy with me. Not just with my mom, either! But with mom, it's allowed me to maintain very limited contact until such time as I can let go... it lets me play a part in my mom's delusion of relationship -- without getting completely sucked into being manipulated & kicked again... and gives me a really clear understanding of how she works her manipulation and projection... without being vulnerable to being the target again. And yes, I think this is one way to assist that progress from always being in the child role with a parent - to being an adult and not sacrificing those adult achievements and skills and characteristics - for the sake of a dubious relationship benefit.