Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board

charN

(1/2) > >>

Hopalong:
Bones' thread with the Ali anecdote made me think about starting this one.

I've often heard--and used--the term "charm" or "charming" as an epithet when describing Nism.

How to tell the difference between manipulative creepy charm and real grace? I mean, my sociopathic N-brother would "try" to be charming in a roomfull of people and my "falsity! bluster! That smile doesn't mean he likes you, it's teeth-baring! Whoa, he just told a major lie" aah-OO-gahh sirens would be going off in my head...

And when my mother was charming it was so twinkly-sparkly-perky it just...didn't matter. She really had no agenda other than securing the moment, I think. She did have a broad agenda of social climbing and social security (not the financial kind) but she was a fluffy bunny. She was charming to look at and sometimes to hear but mostly she sounded like someone making pleasant noises with no content. I am sure she did care at some level but she left havoc (at least in my life, though she was an asset to my father's).

My father's charm, though, I always felt was real. Or maybe it wasn't charm at all, but a close cousin I don't yet know the name for. He bantered and laughed and people just gravitated toward him...he had a musical voice and ready laugh and a wry wit that were delightful. He also had a way of being unselfconsciously present with and to people. He was self-deprecating. He could bore, on occasion (recited itineraries, but to him they were poetic) -- but most of the time, people would just show a little rush of gladness when they encountered him. He radiated the desire to put others at ease and I think he was happiest serving others.

Where I knew my brother was known, I knew my mother was admired, and I knew my father was loved.

Rambling on, would love to hear others' thoughts on what charm is...when it's N, or not.

xo
Hops

Guest:
Hmmm Hops.


--- Quote ---How to tell the difference between manipulative creepy charm and real grace?
--- End quote ---

Well I wouldn't call 'charm' 'grace'. So, charm...

The power or quality of pleasing or delighting; attractiveness
A particular quality that attracts; a delightful characteristic

and then we get the 'magical' associations (is this coincidence?) such as: an action or formula thought to have magical power.

I can see where I might use 'charm' to describe something other than an adult in a positive way. But to say that an adult is charming or has charm, I'd tend to be using it in a derogatory manner, meaning that they are manipulative or superficial. Okay, nothing wrong with being superficial - or is there? There is, to me. So: I don't rate charm at all.

Real grace is a totally different thing, to me.  Tutu - charming?

'Charming' is weaving a magic, a manipulation. If I was 'charming', I'd be acting towards an objective. This might be a positive objective, but it still wouldn't be 'me' being 'me'.

Grace is someone 'being'. So much bigger and so different a concept that I can't start to expand more. :D

As for how it works with Nism, I reckon their particular charms work with a certain sort of person. And on a big scale, it changes and gets called 'charisma'. Bill Clinton comes to mind. Is (was) he charming, and/or does (did) he have charisma? And for whom?

I doubt there was any charm or charisma in my family. Or I just saw right through any attempts at it.

sKePTiKal:
I was gonna ask about charisma... is this simply a synonym?

To my way of thinking, the magical definitions of "charm", charming, and even charisma... are closer to the truth. And they apply equally to what we're provisionally calling grace right now. There are "spells" woven when in the company of one who's genuine, delightful, comfortable to be with and entertaining, in a real way. It's like the good hostess role, you know? The fact that it's a face one puts on with company isn't enough to totally condemn or fear or despise it.... charm isn't of itself a false, bad thing when the intent to share time together with people one cares for and about and to have a good time.

So, for me the difference is that empathy and caring motivation or gene that seems to be lacking in the N... the hole in the soul, that the N desperately tries to cover up with so much illusion. It can be comical to watch how desperately an N will work to try to make that hole invisible... how loudly they'll protest and shout their "good works"... but the dead giveaway is always the subtext of "me-me-me-me-me-me-me-me-me-me-me-me-me" that's obvious to everyone (except those with their own holes and motivations and desperation who might believe they have something to gain through acceptance by the N).

That subtext is kinda like the background singing girls, on the Velvet Underground's "Walk on the Wild Side"... the "do-do-do -- dooooo" part ... it's always there; fading in & out; and it's only the solo lyrics volume that drowns them out or tries to draw attention away from them. Harmony, rhythm & melody - all separate yet woven into one charming, unforgettable song.

teartracks:




Hi Pr,

Walk on the Wild Side gives a new meaning to Hop's question about charm.   Also, its a tutorial on how to be unforgettable!

tt

river:
I would go with how you feel inside for 1, and the other one, what is the underlying motivation.  If not sure you soon find out when all 'charm' is dropped when the reason to charm goes, ie they've got what they want, or discover you're not it!   If its genuine charm it wouldnt disappear on that basis.   

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page