Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board

my daughter's dilemma

<< < (3/10) > >>

Hopalong:
thanks, Bones...I agree, pointing her to resources where she is does make a lot of sense. I've tried. My worry is whether she has the will and focus to go get the help she needs. I've identified the names, offices, locations, phone numbers, sent links.... Pride is a huge piece...just like I'm struggling with my involuntary downslide, economically, I think she also is suffering a huge shift in self image. She's been a glamorous young woman, with a flair for living...but she can't live that way any more.

PR, I am not sure what you mean about keeping my feelings about money and BP separate but it sounds like good advice. The money issue is nearly moot anyway, because as Bones points out, there is a point at which a person does not have money to give another person, or has to begin weighing joining them in their circumstances. You see, it's not an issue of my being overly concerned about what to do with a given amount of money, the way one might choose among investments, it's that I do not have money to support her. The odd grocery card, sure. But it's not sustainable.

TT, thank you for your kindness, always. BP is not a PD but a MI (mental illness). Perhaps an undiagnosed PD is also part of the problem, but the largest issue that is known and diagnosed is an MI, bipolar disorder. I'm learning more about it as I read. The parents' forums on the NAMI and BPDA sites are doozies. And the degree to which the "system" fails folks with MIs is terrifying.

BP is a new enemy in the room, and it's got an octopus hug going with someone I love. You don't always feel capable of pulling off an octopus arm without pulling apart your loved one.

Skits, hon, I hear you and appreciate your caring. Your story is burningly sad one and I know you hear my heart...hurting in some of the same ways. As to your question on chicken and egg, as I understand it from years of reading about it--and having gay friends--it's the egg. It just doesn't manifest fully in many people until enough years have gone by that the deeper identity can surface in spite of all the social stigma and pressure to deny it. Their weight and appearance? Not healthy but not related to sexuality. (You should see one of my best pals...she is very large and walks like a man, and it's simply who she is. She'd like to be thinner for health reasons, but not to be more feminine.)

You asked about her misery...when she lived here with me, hitting the first of several "bottoms" in her depression...yes. She wept and shared some of the bleakest most despairing feelings imaginable. Self hatred and pure and powerful hopelessness and negativity. Negativity is an understatement, it was almost like a force of darkness. I was horrifed by how deep and near-nihilistic her pain was. Felt like I was waving bandaids at a punctured artery. Her suffering has been ungodly painful. Yet for a long time now, there has been absolute unwillingness to do anything advised, that might turn her toward some light. (She did once mention the idea of Quaker meeting, and I so hope she'll go. She's in a largely Quaker city now, so perhaps that will occur to her again. Anything. The Happy Knitters Club. I just want her to find hope again.) Getting on the right Rx would be the first step though, but she has to GO to the resources to get evaluated.

Oy, I'm recycling. Thanks for listening, all, hope I didn't miss thanking anybody...

love
Hops

sKePTiKal:

--- Quote ---I know she is on the edge. Some day I may share with her the image: I keep trying to hold her up in a rough ocean, while she slugs me repeatedly in the head and screams in my ear, "Save me!"
--- End quote ---


Can you tell her that now, Hops? In your gentle way? It just might get through to her - that she's not the only one suffering here. For good/bad... for what it's worth. Just to say it.

You are not responsible for her BP - nor her current situation, Hops. Truly. No matter what happened in the past - to the both of you, and what you experienced in the give/take between each of you. No matter the decisions you personally made that impacted her - you were NOT like your own NM to your D; and she wasn't YOU.

It took a couple of years of hearing this from my own D, before I started to finally realize what she was telling me. What she was telling me, was that I didn't have nearly the impact, the control, the influence over and on her -- that, looking backwards, I guiltily thought I did. I thought her difficulties were my fault, because I was in the midst of unravelling how I had been manipulated and affected by my Nmom. My D didn't appreciate that I thought she was that much of a pushover; which is exactly the message my over-responsibility reflex implied.

Other D is currently struggling, though she finally has a goal, a plan, she's putting one foot in front of the other. It's a difficult hole to climb out of - for anyone. She backslid into overwhelmed helplessness and despair the other day... and needed just plain old mothering and practical solutions. She's not used to having a mom; or even a cheerleader who believes in her, so she doesn't have that ability to do this for herself yet. Without support. That wasn't my doing - she forced it on me - long story. And we're still not close, but we're getting there. I'm closer to some of y'all on the board than I am with her. There's still a bit of wariness I feel... about whether she'll start slugging me again (like in your image, Hops)... or simply "solve" her problem with another crappy relationship or functionally disintegrate... letting the elements of her whole life slip away. So, I'm cheerleading, supporting, mothering, celebrating the small triumphs... reminding her she is entitled to some of all of this... and sending her back on her way again. Other D and I can simply talk all that out; this D and I have a few things to work through before we get to that point... but we've tentatively taken a few steps in that direction.

I have to keep my feelings about our strained relationship in a completely separate place, to be able to do this kind of moral support with her. For me, it's the only way I can break with old patterns of relating to her... and teach her, by example, how to do that for herself, too. It's just not the time/place to deal with those old feelings; it won't help solve her practical problems either. I have to be able to genuinely be here for her with what she really, really needs instead: someone who'll listen to her whine, vent & talk herself around; someone who cares enough to do this; and someone who believes she can do all she's working on, too. All by herself or with a reasonable amount of support. That's really what I meant in my post, yesterday... but my tongue & brain was all tripping over itself in my rush yesterday. (no... I didn't get back here, either; the day took me lots of other places after my meeting.)

The other thing I thought of, that might help loosen some of the knots you're in, Hops... is to affirm that Mom is allowed to want what she wants for D. That's not N - nor is it controlling. It's only when we force what we want on someone else that we start to venture into that territory. Your D may not be able to appreciate this, right now. But, you're going through crisis-exhaustion on one level... and you have your own feelings - that you're entitled to - about her situation... and then, there's you and what you need, since last I checked you're a very emotional human person. Having some predictability - certainty that she's handling her own situation responsibly - would help you greatly. Perhaps you could ask this much, of her... or start working toward that after she accepts responsibility for managing the PD.

I hope you get some of that predictability soon, Hops. A person can only take so much... before you have to start protecting yourself.

teartracks:





Hops,

Thinking about you and D. I was reminded of how often time, itself took care of so many things.  In other words, in times of crises, chaos, and tragedy, saying 'this too shall pass' helped. It's of little comfort to say it to our hearts, but acknowledging the truth of it moment to moment in our heads sometimes helps.

Blessings and prayers,

tt

cat:
Hops - my heart just breaks for you and your daughter.  In the area I live - I am associated with a Free Clinic - providing medical help for those who have no insurance.  We have many people who made so much money, and had so much money saved they never went on unemployment.  Now they are broken and devastated by the turn in the economy.  However, at the Clinic we strive to give people a sense of purpose.  They just cannot come in and get medical care for free.  They need to go help someone else. We give them a voucher and ask them to go work for an hour as a volunteer doing some type of public service.

Sometimes they help out at churches, the Salvation Army, or in one case - they helped out at the City where I live.  I do understand the problem of pride. . . I really do.  However, when you start volunteering around people who are absolutely broken and in some cases, in the same boat as you - the outlook really changes.  The social services in the area do a great job of providing necessities to people - but they also provide a great means to look forward to helping others.

It certainly helped me when I was unemployed!

Hopalong:
Thanks, PR...it's great you've found a successful way of relating to your D, and that she permits it. That's wonderful.

Cat, thank you. I couldn't agree more about what you describe. The dilemma for me is that there are fountains of wisdom, perspective, practical resources, places to go for help, processes, therapies, activities, outlooks, thoughts, perspectives, transformations, trusts, exercises in reaching out. There are MANY things she should and could do and the thing I must accept is that it just doesn't matter how much perspective, wisdom, advice or guidance I shovel toward her.

ONLY SHE can decide whether to fight for herself. All she really wants from me lately is money. And I'm running out.

So we're back to Bones' scenario. I don't know what she would do if I were unable to be a buffer or a last resort. And, I'm closer than I was before to being willing to risk finding out.

It's very frightening. Lifelong estrangement terrifies me but I think I need the courage to risk estrangement now. She just goes toxic in relationship to me and nothing I do--not supporting her for the year here, not going with her to a therapist, not the emergency bailouts to pay her rent and flying to Miami to help her move--all at the cost of my own security which is tentative--not anything I have done...has moved her forward.

So I think the real lesson for me is to let go. Calm myself, wait it out. And just hope that she'll find her own strength, and the support she needs.

I have to weather the loss, because it is a loss. A child who won't even call you when you're alone on a holiday is a child who really wants nothing to do with you, I think.

I am hopeful that this will change and I am very comforted by those of you who believe it might.

Thanks again for all the support.

love,
Hops

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page