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Holidaze

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sfalken:
It's all been done before, so many, many, times - so I shouldn't expect different, but somehow I still do at times.

Following a suggestion from a therapist, I and my wife decided around the end of summer to extend a 'long olive branch' toward my parents - in lieu of continuing with NC, which was tearing me up emotionally. What my therapist called 'detaching with love'. It seemed reasonable and a good move for me, as NC was something that left me with more guilt and dark feelings than the benefits could outweigh.

So we we met with them on a couple of occasions for dinner. No one acted too out of hand, and we all survived, but for me, what wasnt being said by my <explicative> father - after the extremely hurtful things hes said to me over the last two years, and the continuing obsessions and button pushing from my mother all throughout each encounter, made me begin to think twice. I'm not really sure if a 'longer olive branch' is making anything better. It seems as if, if anything, its making things more obvious, and painful, instead.

As the holidays approached, I offered my mother the possibility for us to all meet again on the 18th of December for a dinner in a restaurant. She called me back immediately and (Me standing in a home depot - I decided to answer - God knows why) push the same pressure points she always does, and to berate me, and tell me that meeting in a restaurant wasnt good enough, that the children "need a chance to get to know them" in private, and to... and to... end result was me telling her that it was a mistake and to forget it, click.

I talked with my ex-wife later that week and she told me that she was planning on inviting my parents to visit her house on Christmas morning to spend time with my two eldest children. Her decision. So she invited them - and - would you believe it... my Nmother told her first - 'let me get back to you..' followed by an email with the usual lame excuses for why they couldn't come by to see the kids. They had plans with another family and their young children for Christmas day instead, and a function with the rest of her dysfunctional siblings to follow. Also that she has to sleep later now per doctors orders and cant leave the house too early. Lie, lie lie lie lie lie. Excuses.

My mother is the victim Narcissist. He the co-enabler borderline personality. She personally loves nothing more than to whine and moan to every person who will listen about how horribly ill she makes herself seem at any given time (she is not) and about her terrible son (hi guys - that's me!). Together, these are the same people that make it their favorite pastime to slander my wife and I - lie after lie to everyone they can - saying how my wife and I dont allow them to see the children, on and on...

Yet, as usual, they are the same people that turned down two major opportunities to see the children, again.

Thr truth is, I think, that the work, or effort required to salvage a connection, let alone a relationship, in order to see the grandchildren, or less their son and daughter in law, is too great, when compared to the narcissistic supply they can derive from moaning to others all throughout the holidays, badmouthing us all, saying that we didnt allow them the chance.

Could it be that my mother's subconscious called me to sabotage that meeting purposely so that she could secure that attention and supply from others during the holidays? Could they have purposely turned down the chance to see their own grand kids on Christmas - to spend that time with other people and their children instead - in order to ensure the right to 'cry victim' to others? I guess I gave her the 'best gift ever' when I ended that call.

Ah the holidays. The yearly dysfunction-fest. St. Patty's day can't come fast enough.

We're off to Germany with our youngest to spend a little time with my wife's family from Christmas until early Jan. I can't wait. Somehow a good German beer with my mother and father in law and some time outside of the states helps me to put it all into perspective: "They're just people I once knew." That should get me through Jan and Feb at least.

Hey Merry Christmas to everyone here that celebrates it. Happy year end to anyone else.

SilverLining:

--- Quote from: sfalken on December 21, 2011, 01:03:17 PM ---

Could it be that my mother's subconscious called me to sabotage that meeting purposely so that she could secure that attention and supply from others during the holidays? Could they have purposely turned down the chance to see their own grand kids on Christmas - to spend that time with other people and their children instead - in order to ensure the right to 'cry victim' to others? I guess I gave her the 'best gift ever' when I ended that call.


--- End quote ---

I feel for you SF.  It is weird how they sabotage themselves in one situation  in order to get narcissistic supply somewhere else.  I believe the more deflated N's  get "self supply" just from feeling sorry for themselves.  Supply from others is the major goal, but if they can't get it anywhere else, there's always talking to themselves about how mistreated they are.  With these unconscious dynamics, there is no way we can win. 

I do like that word Holidaze.  There's no place like home for the holidaze, for sure. 

JustKathy:

--- Quote ---Ah the holidays. The yearly dysfunction-fest.
--- End quote ---

Yep, dysfunction-fest is what it is alright. Glad you made the decision to leave the country and put some distance between you and all that mess. Have a great time over there. :)

BonesMS:

--- Quote from: sfalken on December 21, 2011, 01:03:17 PM ---It's all been done before, so many, many, times - so I shouldn't expect different, but somehow I still do at times.

Following a suggestion from a therapist, I and my wife decided around the end of summer to extend a 'long olive branch' toward my parents - in lieu of continuing with NC, which was tearing me up emotionally. What my therapist called 'detaching with love'. It seemed reasonable and a good move for me, as NC was something that left me with more guilt and dark feelings than the benefits could outweigh.

So we we met with them on a couple of occasions for dinner. No one acted too out of hand, and we all survived, but for me, what wasnt being said by my <explicative> father - after the extremely hurtful things hes said to me over the last two years, and the continuing obsessions and button pushing from my mother all throughout each encounter, made me begin to think twice. I'm not really sure if a 'longer olive branch' is making anything better. It seems as if, if anything, its making things more obvious, and painful, instead.

As the holidays approached, I offered my mother the possibility for us to all meet again on the 18th of December for a dinner in a restaurant. She called me back immediately and (Me standing in a home depot - I decided to answer - God knows why) push the same pressure points she always does, and to berate me, and tell me that meeting in a restaurant wasnt good enough, that the children "need a chance to get to know them" in private, and to... and to... end result was me telling her that it was a mistake and to forget it, click.

I talked with my ex-wife later that week and she told me that she was planning on inviting my parents to visit her house on Christmas morning to spend time with my two eldest children. Her decision. So she invited them - and - would you believe it... my Nmother told her first - 'let me get back to you..' followed by an email with the usual lame excuses for why they couldn't come by to see the kids. They had plans with another family and their young children for Christmas day instead, and a function with the rest of her dysfunctional siblings to follow. Also that she has to sleep later now per doctors orders and cant leave the house too early. Lie, lie lie lie lie lie. Excuses.

My mother is the victim Narcissist. He the co-enabler borderline personality. She personally loves nothing more than to whine and moan to every person who will listen about how horribly ill she makes herself seem at any given time (she is not) and about her terrible son (hi guys - that's me!). Together, these are the same people that make it their favorite pastime to slander my wife and I - lie after lie to everyone they can - saying how my wife and I dont allow them to see the children, on and on...

Yet, as usual, they are the same people that turned down two major opportunities to see the children, again.

Thr truth is, I think, that the work, or effort required to salvage a connection, let alone a relationship, in order to see the grandchildren, or less their son and daughter in law, is too great, when compared to the narcissistic supply they can derive from moaning to others all throughout the holidays, badmouthing us all, saying that we didnt allow them the chance.

Could it be that my mother's subconscious called me to sabotage that meeting purposely so that she could secure that attention and supply from others during the holidays? Could they have purposely turned down the chance to see their own grand kids on Christmas - to spend that time with other people and their children instead - in order to ensure the right to 'cry victim' to others? I guess I gave her the 'best gift ever' when I ended that call.

Ah the holidays. The yearly dysfunction-fest. St. Patty's day can't come fast enough.

We're off to Germany with our youngest to spend a little time with my wife's family from Christmas until early Jan. I can't wait. Somehow a good German beer with my mother and father in law and some time outside of the states helps me to put it all into perspective: "They're just people I once knew." That should get me through Jan and Feb at least.

Hey Merry Christmas to everyone here that celebrates it. Happy year end to anyone else.

--- End quote ---

Hi, Sfalken, and Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, and Happy New Year!

FWIW, it sounds as if the NQueen Womb-Donor B*tch took that long olive branch, yanked you in close enough to punch you in the face, then turns to her NSuppliers with Crocodile Tears to "cry poor little victim me"!  Thinking about that NWomb-Donor and what she continues to do makes me go BLEAHHHHHH!!!!!   :P

You can tell your therapist you gave his suggestion the good ol' honest college try and the end result was more abuse and slander.  Which is worse, going NC or being continually abused by these NMonsters is the question I would put to the therapist, if I were in your shoes again.  (Thankfully, my NWomb-Donor is dead and I am NC with what is left of the NRelatives.)

((((((((((((((Sfalken, his wife and kids)))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Bones

sfalken:
True - perhaps this warrants a new discussion with the therapist.

I was thinking on my long drive to work today:

One of he things that makes it so difficult to manage a relationship (or non-relationship) with a Narcissistic personality, is that after so many years, the person who once lived at the core of the Narcissist disintegrates, and it is impossible to manage a relationship with the remaining image (or images), or the empty shell of the person who once had the opportunity to exist.

I often use the imagery from the Wizard of Oz. My NM is always projecting the image of the 'Great and Powerful Oz' (or the "Poor and Victimized Oz' rather), and warning me and others in so many words, not 'to mind that man behind the curtain.' (I was the kind of child that always called out the man behind the curtain however, which caused considerable trouble for me.)

But after so many years of projecting specialized images for each and every person or entity that they come into contact with (in order for their image to be everything to everyone), they become so exhausted with remembering their own lies, and maintaining that image (or number of images), that one day the image takes over, 'the man behind the curtain' is gone, and no one is at the helm anymore.

In the beginning, they loved their image, because they loathed their own core, and at one point, they began believing and living the lie of the image they created, and the core died.

So what we - people who are forced to live with Narcissistic personalities - are left with, is dealing with the N's empty container. We no longer believe in the image that is (or was) being projected, and we understand that the core is empty.

It's just a shell, nothing more - and you just cant reason with, derive empathy from, or have a relationship with an empty shell.

Now the co-enabler on the other hand, he (in my case) made a decision that ultimately betrayed his own child - leaving him at the hands of the N, and I'm left with more of an issue with forgiving him, and managing my own anger toward him here in the aftermath. He stood by her and made the last attacks that destroyed what was left of a relationship - between he and I. That is a puzzle I cannot so easily solve. For me, he is accountable, where she is in my opinion, such a pitiful and sad case that, I view her as mentally challenged.

You cant ask a one legged man to run a race. My mother had only NO emotional legs to begin with - and so there you go. It's sad, its hurtful, but shes a lost cause. My father was at one time in possession of both legs however, and that is not so easy for me.

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