Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Holidaze
KayZee:
((((sfalken)))))
Merry Christmas. Wishing you and your family a great holiday in Germany, where hopefully the folk's dysfunction-fest can't touch you.
I'm so sorry that you and your wife have had to endure your mom's mixed messages, weird headgames and general passive aggression.
Why do N's amp up their nastiness this time of year? It's like they really actively try to ruin the holidays for everyone.
I'm in a similar boat at the moment. FOO giving me the runaround. NM playing the victim.
I knew NM was going to make this year extra horrible because it's our first year in our first house (we're new homeowners). Accordingly, I set this boundary in September: We'll come to your house for Thanksgiving, but we're doing Christmas on our own here with my husband's visiting family (we'll be full to capacity).
Long story short: in November, everyone else bailed on my folks for Xmas because NM has gotten so nasty; DH felt bad for my folks and repeatedly (at least 4 times) invited them to our place; a haughty NM repeatedly refused the invitation. Then, a week ago, NM called me up to say they might come to our house for Christmas after all, but they're still not sure.
So here we are, three days before Xmas and I'm still left hanging. Folks offering no clue whether they're coming or not, spending the night or not, etc. Basically, I'm just supposed to wait and see if they're going to turn up and ruin my holiday. I think not telling me is the way they can, pardon my language, s*** on that boundary I set in September. It's NM's way of saying, "You can't escape me. I own you, so I can come unannounced." Agh, the hellidays! I wish I could numb out until Mid-January.
--- Quote ---It's just a shell, nothing more - and you just cant reason with, derive empathy from, or have a relationship with an empty shell.
--- End quote ---
This is very wise. A painful, but very brave revelation you've come to.
Hope you all get a little peace on earth...
love, Kay
SilverLining:
--- Quote from: sfalken on December 22, 2011, 10:55:14 AM ---One of he things that makes it so difficult to manage a relationship (or non-relationship) with a Narcissistic personality, is that after so many years, the person who once lived at the core of the Narcissist disintegrates, and it is impossible to manage a relationship with the remaining image (or images), or the empty shell of the person who once had the opportunity to exist.
--- End quote ---
I think this is a good insight, and corresponds with what I have been thinking of as the "deflated N". It can be hard to identify this "empty shell person" as a narcissist because they might not be continuing the claims of personal grandiosity expected of an N. They just sort of limp along while continuing the covert relationship sabotages and abuses.
For sure it is difficult or impossible to have a relationship with the empty shell. For many years I tried to find common ground or interests for a reciprocal relationship with my father. I finally gave up when I figured out the only real "core" to him is the need to oppose other people and prop himself up. Having common interests is, after all, common, and what he wants is to be superior.
I'm off for my annual holidaze trial with the FOO the day after tomorrow. Last year my mother was having a psychotic break. This year my father is having health problems so we'll see how it goes. It's always something.
sKePTiKal:
Hi SF - Merry Christmas! (no, they really can't take this from you; I wished you and it didn't have a thing to do with them... let that be my little bit of revenge countering all the Ns...)
Re: your Dad. I hear how tough this is for you. Sucks. No other way to describe it. That said, I wonder if you can imagine what it might have been like for him to be married to your mom all these years? What horrible things must she have put him through? What awful compromises of his core values would he have had to make, to keep on day in and out with her... ??
I'm going out on a limb, but I do think it's possible he found himself in perhaps an equally awful position as you do, in relationship to Mom. It's likely, even, that she leveraged her knowledge of him and his weaknesses to further wrap the ropes around him. But I don't know this. Just pointing out it might be a possibility. Any chance you could see him alone, somewhere where he is comfortable, to start talking some of this out? At least, you'd know if my guesses are anywhere close to the mark... or are way off. I thought I was hearing that this might be the more important parental relationship for you... and I'm just trying to come up with another type of Limited Contact option... that might be more to the point, for YOU (not Nmom).
Gosh - I'm almost envious of your trip to Germany! I loved the short trip I had there. I'll bet it's wonderful during the holidays. I'm at least half German, so the cultural aspects of being there were easily comfortable for me.
JustKathy:
--- Quote ---Now the co-enabler on the other hand, he (in my case) made a decision that ultimately betrayed his own child - leaving him at the hands of the N, and I'm left with more of an issue with forgiving him, and managing my own anger toward him here in the aftermath. He stood by her and made the last attacks that destroyed what was left of a relationship - between he and I. That is a puzzle I cannot so easily solve. For me, he is accountable, where she is in my opinion, such a pitiful and sad case that, I view her as mentally challenged.
--- End quote ---
I can't tell you how much I related to this. I'm going through these same feelings right now with my own co-father. I made excuses for him my entire life, thinking that he couldn't help what he was doing because he was brainwashed, or maybe even mentally challenged. But he wasn't. It wasn't until I was nearly 50 that he made the final attacks that prompted me to go NC with the entire FOO. Believing that his N-wife was dying of cancer (and it looks she's been faking it), he disinherited me on her request, and flaunted the fact that he had done it to spite me. My anger wasn't about money, since they really don't have any left, having already distributed it to the GC. To me, it was a clear statement of "we don't love you - we disown you." Both my husband and I tried to talk to him, and tried to make him see how badly he had hurt me, and the response was "la la la la I can't hear you."
In many ways, I have more anger towards him than I do her, for the reasons you stated. She was mentally ill, but he was fully cognizant of his actions, choosing to hurt me, sometimes physically, in order to remain loyal to his queen. That, in my mind, is unforgivable. For years I managed to convince myself that he really loved me, and had no choice. Now I know better. It didn't hurt one bit to walk away.
Hopalong:
One night, in my 20s, after my first year of therapy,
I confronted my Dad, and told him, painfully, how much
sorrow I had because Nmom always spoke for them both,
demanded all my time and attention...and how I truly
wished for more of a relationship with him.
"I need you, too" I told him.
All I remember is that he got tears in his eyes.
He never said much, and nothing much changed...
except I think I saw then that he could not leave
the role he had with her, but that in those tears,
I saw that he loved me, too.
The competition for him was lost before I was born,
her demands were too huge for one man to fill and
also be a protector for me. It would have split him
in two.
After that night, I lost my anger...I realized he
wasn't abandoning me. He was just doing the best
he knew how to do.
xo
Hops
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