Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: sKePTiKal on July 17, 2012, 09:01:33 AM
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Not long ago, in someone's thread (Twoapenny??), we briefly talked about things we do to sort of recover "ourselves" after social events involving big numbers of people. Or anytime there's a lot of interpersonal activity. I've kinda noticed a shift in my routines... almost a return to the more compulsive (and self-soothing), inviolable, habits of the past.
I don't like this, because it's really non-productive... and too many things pile up into "big jobs", as a consequence. Intellectually, I don't like it.
Emotionally, I know this is some sort of perceived "need" - and it's a primal, all-consuming one. It's connected to another perception -- of too much going on all at once to process, that type of chaos -- and that stimulates the old anxiety-buttons. Sleep is the only "real" remedy I've found that works. Sometimes.
In one way, this feels like the most childish, selfish thing: like curling up in a corner with a blankie and sucking my thumb. I'll take a newspaper or magazine or book... retreat, withdraw, go hide... and pull up the invisible steel gates around me. I don't hear what people say to me; barely notice they're around me. There's no set timeframe for how long I need to do this... sometimes it can be days. It's like by going that far inside myself, I finally have found the "safe refuge"... where I'm not beseiged, taxed beyond my ability to remain cool, calm & collected, and like the Daruma Buddha doll... I've finally come to rest and am not wobbling anymore.
I have this idea, that this is a weird behavior or belief (after all... let's pull out the list..! LOL). That "normal" folk don't have this kind of need... and if they do, they don't indulge it. They carry on... and are just fine without that kind of "separation of being" from whatever is going on around them. They go with the flow... the words, the egos, the laughter or reprimands to children, the noise of groups of people just being... are not felt by "normals" as potential threats or annoyances or ... as anything directed at themselves or their physical safety. It's background noise, like a tv left on at night. It appears to me, anyway - that most people don't have the reaction I do. I'm not 100% sure about that.
I experience all that activity outside of me, as a feeling of falling into pieces... dispersing... not being one, whole person... like being picked apart by a flock of birds. In the past, the only solution was to flee the scene of the party or whatever. Find somewhere quiet(er)... with physical space around me... put actual physical distance between myself and the goings-on... and then just breathe for a bit. I've used headphones... the computer... books... the plethora of papers and magazines hubs still subscribes to... to maintain that kind of distance (even from hubs)... and then, when I do interact -- I deliberately (but not really consciously) pick one person at a time. Or I just hang out silently... the wallflower... people watcher... content (but not really) to just be there - but not participating. Even hubs' TV is an irritant this way. I will take my paper (and water) outside in the dangerous extreme heat (in the shade)... to sit and read somewhere peaceful... and let myself finally reassemble into a "conscious being, with will, attention, and an agenda".
The purpose of the withdrawal into myself... is to put all those pieces of me back together, in some recognizable semblance of what I call my "identity"... my "self". When I'm around other people - all my senses are laser-focused on them - I'm hypersensory, to coin a phrase - in that I'm noticing facial expressions, watching movements, "listening" for mood-temperatures, reacting to funnies... but I'm always like that one half-step removed outside... there's some "me"-part that's held back... that's too fragile for the rough-tumble reality of a group of people. If I don't have a chance to self-soothe, withdraw... then it escalates into being irritable, touchy, restless... until eventually, fusion/fission is achieved and there's an explosion, of sorts. Over nothing, usually.
OK - that's about the best description I can give. Anyone have any idea "what" this is? Ways to get past it, if you know what this is yourself? Or am I just doing too much navel-gazing, again?????
Thanks.
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Hi PR,
That's wonderfully described. I think it might be introversion plus trauma recovery. Plus stuff.
I am definitely an extravert but sometimes realize that I'm being manically (anxiously) extraverted, which
from what I gather, leaves me nearly as drained as intraverts feel after being too long out in the school (of minnows).
What pinged for me personally after reading your post was the strong positive effect on me of living with my
kind church friend. What she does is -- routines. She gets up early, cooks every morning, goes
off to work, sees an isolated elder every Monday evening, has church meetings (clockwork)
and takes care of her house.
She's a bit introverted herself but has subsumed that into a very strong sense of herself as
part of the community. So she does her community roles; she always has a place because
she focuses on others and identifies with the wellbeing of the community. She has problems,
including some medical ones, but is so busy taking care of others that she just deals with
them and moves on. (Revelation to self-absorbed me.) And, she is valued and loved and
has many friends. Domestically, her life is pretty old-fashioned. I like that. A lot. It's also fairly
simple. She's not a shopper or consumer and has got the healthy habits of someone who's learned
to live peacefully with herself.
Who knew you're supposed to wash your sheets every Saturday? She's not rigid, but what
I'm absorbing is the simplicity and constancy of her routines. It's been really really good for
me to be in her peaceful home and be influenced by her way of being. I like clean sheets.
For me, routine always felt like punishment, like putting my wild independent creative
self in a box, that was for "other people." Now, in this chapter, being around this peaceful
woman's routines, and helping a bit with them...is showing me routine is probably the
biggest gift I could give myself. Like, now it's time for a meal. Now, it's time for bed.
Now, it's time to mow, or weed, or bake. Now, it's time to check on someone who's
struggling.
Self-soothing is an essential skill, particularly for trauma survivors. I think what I did
was take it to an extreme, so it became depression, isolation, addictive TV watching,
retreating, and to a degree, giving up. I wasn't living in the present any more. I was
grieving the past and dreading the future.
My move has forced the present on me, and I've been lucky to land in a real oasis with
a caring person who has a generous heart. I am learning so much from my time here.
I no longer watch much TV (and don't have one in the bedroom). I'm back to books.
I find I love going to bed early. I like getting up early and walking in her leafy neighborhood.
I like thinking of little helpful things to do that express my gratitude. I like easing some
of her load.
Because I'm suspended in limbo (no longer the frightening toxic limbo, but this
time one that's heading for something positive, my new place) -- I'm all simplified.
I have two drawers. One room. A quarter of a closet. My wardrobe is 3 jeans and
half a dozen tops. Two pairs of shoes. One "bankers box" with essential files. All
the rest is in storage and I do not miss it!
Sorry, rambling. I think self-soothing is much harder when one has too much stuff.
Stuff is a drone, a constant whine in the back of the brain. A worry. A stress. A
sense of "I can never keep up."
Hops
I plan to visit the storage unit several times a week and keep pulling out stuff,
taking it to donate...so when the Move-In comes, I'm taking a lot less with me.
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PR - Ihave no idea what normal is, but I know I need to pull away sometimes too. Maybe you are concerned because of how deeply you need to remove yourself. Is it causing you stress to be separated? I don't think it's a bad thing at all. That you have noticed it means you either need to recognize it and move on or change it in some way that makes you feel comfortable.
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Amber:
As a fairly strong introvert, I identified with a lot of what you wrote. The distance you feel when you're with other people is familiar to me...... even when I wished I could be closer. Having to withdraw into a book, or some isolated activity to recover from exposure to a group. Showing up to a fancy Christmas party at a friend's' house early, helping set up food, then going all wonky after the second guest arrived, and snuggling into bed to read the rest of the evening, dreading the knocks on my door to ask me to come back down, knowing I'd no sooner go back down to the party than fly to the moon. I was very content to read, sleep, and get up early and do the dishes, then enjoy breakfast with my host, one on one, immensely. One on one encounters are my choice, I don't much enjoy a group,and sometimes can't endure a group.
How are you in relationships where you aren't in a position to be helpful? I find that I'm not comfortable in relationships where I'm not "needed" or "useful" and it bothers me to notice this. I think that's one reason I adore parenting so much.... why I still probably do a bit too much for my children, whom I adore. It's walking meditation to guide, teach, model, and make sure everything's OK for my children. It's my comfort zone.
I've learned a lot from just sitting, not reacting, and being still with my anxiety. Choosing not to self sooth in old familiar ways has brought empowerment, improved the way I feel, and made me feel like I have control over my destiny like never before.
I think resisting the urge to engage in old patters has been the key, where I used to fly into action, I don't now. In fact, I've been off sugar, gluten, and dairy for 6 weeks (SO HARD!) but I've stayed the course, and resist the urge to eat as one of my self soothing patterns, which has improved my mental outlook, and brought lots of energy.
I'm back in clothes I wore 20 years ago, and that wasn't my goal, but I find it soothing to be in soft clothing I wore in days that were less stressful, and without drama. Yes, I've kept my beloved clothing from 20 years ago, which brings me to Hopsy's post about editing and living more simply.
I feel better when I pare down, and open up clear sunny space with nothing on or around it. Why is it so darned hard to do it regularly, and not add back more stuff?
Also, I do better when I have a set workout routine, Hops. It keeps the cadence of laundry, house cleaning and self care more consistent and lends shape to my days.
Lighter
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Hi Beth! No, I'm not particularly worried about this "trait" of mine. Curious... picking at it, like a scab... maybe. I've noticed it for awhile - and when it was at it's worst, it manifested in panic attacks; anxiety binges. I've seen little bits and pieces of it... here and there... and mentioned it... what's different now, is that I think I see the whole thing -- and in the context of it's being a self-defeating or self-sabotaging pattern. I DO want connection and flow with other people... and perhaps, at the root of all this is a malfunction of the mind-body connection, you know? Something that's been around since those early bonding/attachment days as an infant. Perhaps. I'm not totally convinced... because I'm not "like this" all the time, when I'm in my businesswoman hat and functional persona -- I'm sort of the opposite, and quite comfortable there.
What Lighter said - about not being needed - pings off my inner bell. Might be a direct hit, even. When I'm not actively in charge of something... or contributing something "important"... or being funny... or... I slide into that "other me" of just not being relaxed; being another face in the crowd, not paying attention to everyone else... or just daydreaming... taking a "rest" or time out during socializing. Yep, I completely understand the mom-thing, Lighter... me too. Now the kids are 30+... and they can "do it all by themselves"... and are actually revelling in the ability to do for me, all those things I did for them. It's role-shift time for me - letting go time - I don't have to instruct, guide, caution, give mommy-lectures - and when the crowd is other than my kids... at the core, I have that twinge of guilt still, about just enjoying myself, relaxed, happy, and enjoying other people.
:: vigorously shakes head ::
Whoa. OK. What was I thinking?! LOL... Thanks bunches, Lighter! I have been taking a little extra time to just sit, be still, and tell myself IT'S OK - I don't have to be constantly "doing" and "productive" and "useful" all the time. How AMAZING that you're wearing those clothes again! You've got to share your secret!! My weight seems to have a mind of it's own - and the more I focus on eating well - the more it goes up. It's like I said before about smoking - if I try to tackle something "head-on", confrontational style... with force & determination, the backlash resistance I get from myself... is unbearable. Fortunately, with the heat we're having - I just don't feel like eating much.
Now, if I can hold those two ideas in my head - about how maybe there is a built-in automatic attachment/interpersonal "thing" about how I relate AND the strategy of being noticed, getting attention by over-compensating on the "functional, doing"... and the consequent inevitable disappointment when no one notices "all the little things I do"... sigh... maybe I can just chuck the whole little toxic bundle of crap in the nearest wastebasket... and MOVE ON, finally.
Hopsie, hon! You know, I wanted to reject the idea that I'm an introvert completely. Like it was something "bad"... a character weakness or something. No, really! Me??? Shy???? with my irrepressible mouth??? Hardly. But there is something to it, and you're right - it's connected to the creative impulse. When I was working on my art... there seemed to always be an oscillation between socializing, verbally sparring, or jousting about ideas and asking lots of what if and why not questions and talking myself in circles... to the stage where I pulled up a drawbridge, locked the doors and turned to face the blank paper or canvas and just went at it. Instinct thrown at the flat surface... emotion made visible... and time-outs to step back and "just look"... and let both the analytical brain and the instinctive refine the raw whatever. The "energy" to withdraw and create has always come from what I call "the void" - synonymous with "collective consciousness" - or zen's "no-mind". It's been a very long time since I've been there... and way to it, is simply sitting quietly.
When I go there, people complain about me being "so far away"... or "not there". And because the act of actually going there is such a RELIEF of whatever inner tension is going on in me... it feels so blessed GOOD... I have a hard time dragging myself away and rejoining the normal routines of life around me. And there's that snail-like slime trail of "guilt" again, huh? "Other people" complain... that's the other issue:
those particular "other people" aren't around anymore. And while hubs can definitely make a pest of himself -- when I need to go to the "zone" -- he is one of many (right now) begging, pleading, exhorting, wheedling, and asking "please mom... just go MAKE something". And because of past experience: I did this - and then people (important to me then) reacted badly about it... I'm making the intellectual mistake of assuming that this is always "true" in all circumstances, at all time, with all people.
[Damn this experience; it's so true of my FOO it's horrifying -- they are still stuck in repeating over & over the same old treadmill boring crap; there are no "alternate endings" in their story... it reminds me of a short-story by Ouspensky; can't remember the name... something like Ivan Bogdanovich.... the movie Groundhog day, is connected in a way to that story.]
OK - here's a(nother) leap. This gets me all the way back to what I was thinking about, talking to Beth - attachment. "Other people" - and what they want, need, think... have always been more important than what Amber _____. I have always been expected to "go into other people's shoes"... their world... their experience -------- and except for here, no one's even made the first move to try mine on size. I don't invite people in -- except here. I can't THINK of the last time I felt like someone was sharing my inner world and it was better than OK or safe... or we had our own together... but I know who it was.
Same guy that told me, Honey - a boundary is like fence; fences have gates and they swing both ways.
PHEW...
Hops, it sounds like you've found yourself a really healing, restorative stopover on your way to your new home. Like you're spending a week or several in the Elven realm of Rivendell... or you've been led by the "lady of the lake"... and tended to by her admirers. I know that with the work on the new house - having somewhere else to stay was a necessity... but it seems as though you're also easing the transition of letting go... and moving forward... and finding some important treasures along the way. Like that moment of rest between creative endeavors - a moment to savor the final product... release it... and start on the next one.
I am so glad for you! You truly deserve and need this.
THANK YOU all. Each and every perspective makes sense, is spot on, and helps me a bunch.
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I thought I was the only one who tends to withdraw into a "shell" after being around people too much. When I become "peopled-out", I want to escape and hide somewhere. I've learned that, for me, it is considered an Aspie trait and nothing to be ashamed of because when I have to socialize, my "batteries" get depleted and I have to have "alone time" somewhere to "recharge my batteries".
I hope that makes sense.
Bones
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It most definitely does, Bones - it makes lots of sense to me.
It's not just an aspie trait, though. It appears there's a few of us - at least - who need to do this. And maybe all people do -- there's that matter of degree of need, you know? And "aspies" are still "people"... not really that different from everyone else.
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((((Amber))))
Light
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I don't think it has anything to d with being aspie. I am introverted, not aspie, and I require huge amounts of downtime every day. I will give up sleep to have my downtime. I think it is just the way some people are wired.
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(((P.R.))),
I relate to this a lot. Ditto, Bones and Erin. And I find myself worrying about it sometimes, fearing that needing time alone means I'm N like my NM. Some little voice in my head says, well, isn't that a very N thing to do? Withdraw into yourself like a turtle into your shell?. I think (or at least I hope) it isn't.
For me, it feels like a trauma thing. Large groups of people, at least to me, still = scapegoating. My NM is most brutal to me when she's got the backing of my dad and sister, and she likes to go after me during parties and holidays (I think they make her feel ignored and out of control) so she goes hunting for someone to trap, frighten and control. The association feels set. Even family-less parties send me into a tizzy of anxiety. I feel myself totally shutting down, going blank, I can't think of a thing to talk about, I just want to be home alone with a book or a project. I feel the same way in large crowds of strangers--like a trapped animal. When I was a kid, I used to actually faint in crowded subway cars and such.
Also maybe some of it is just overstimulation? Like, as a kid, my survival depended on being totally attuned to the people around me, especially NM. Even as an adult, I'm a little too sensitive to other people's emotionally states. I can feel other people's feelings more easily than I can tap into my own. So in a group, it's just like too much. Too many inflections, too many subtleties, too many ways to say or do the wrong thing. I get bogged down. My system gets overloaded. I feel like I'm being devoured.
I'm fearful, truly fearful, of people unless I'm one on one with them and I've known them for ages. And I don't quite know how to go about changing that or if I should bother. After all, most of the time I don't feel super lonely, I just feel like a freak. I feel like I should be more social. Society says that's good, that no one trusts the quiet one. But demanding that I be more outgoing just feels like I'm beating on my inner child the same way NM used to (she hated that I was tentative in public, wanted me to assume this false identity and put it away the second we got back home, go back to be a little ghost child). Agh, anyway. Sorry for the tangent. Definitely hits home with me.
lots of love to you all, Kay x
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((((Kay))))
The shy ones, with eyes wide
enough to take in all of it...
willing, wary, wise in ways
we busy shouters miss.
xxoo
Hops
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Well, you know after some more thought on this and an interesting experience, I think I can finally say something close to "final" on this -- for myself.
Hypervigilance... that old habit of always being on watch for the "trigger" that I'd trip and become a target for Nmom's abuse... is partly at work in my own neural patterns/pathways in "present moment" social situations. Like it or not - it's a legacy thing - and in the state of society these days, it's probably not ALL bad. I've even been intentionally taught (post-FOO) to consciously/subconsciously scan crowds and groups for anything that looks/feels out of place... as a first-line, protect myself, strategy. It's also meant to reassure myself that I am SAFE and can RELAX. (And the habit isn't geared to that goal, as much as the fearful feeling... they are flip sides of the same coin.) Sometimes, I don't realize it in the moment, but it can go extreme... run away with my attention, at a level just below consciousness until it finally reaches that nuclear melt-down state.
Inner Hypervigilance... scanning my own SELF, being hyper-aware of "giving away" any emotional weakness or vulnerability that would attract the abusive vultures to come pick away at me... very easily falls into, slides into... being over-critical, over-sensitive, and anxious about anything, everything I notice about "me"... like some emotional hypochrondriac.
That's a whole lot of activity going on - just in my own awareness - so it makes sense, then, that the visual info of watching people group, regroup, and separate and regroup... combined with the aural input of so many conversations going on at once, which sort of blends into a single sound because it's too hard to focus on or separate the conversations out into overlapping sounds... all that just sort of "crashes" my hard-drive - my brain - the frontal cortex, higher processing thought processes. That in turn, leaves me with only the primitive fight/flight/freeze - dinosaur brain operational. And that awareness engages adrenalin... the old stress hormones of cortisol... and is only intended for short-term survival activity. IT'S EXHAUSTING to be in that state for any length of time.
And so, I feel I need to curl into myself and withdraw from all external input (except reading - that actually seems to help speed up recovery) to restore my normal boundaries, to feel in control of myself and my brain again, to truly relax and recover. I keep asking myself, how come I don't feel like my normal boundaries can withstand being in those social situations... why I'm sooo freaked out... and the answer is obvious - the cumulative experiential "history" of each and every time I was criticized, told what I'd just said was "inappropriate" or "smart-ass" or "too nosy", each time I moved (or was in the way), did/didn't do whatever Nmom was thinking I "should" do, whether I succeeded at goals or failed, all of that is stored in my brain along with the umbrella-understanding-deep down awareness that there was something "wrong" with me - that I wasn't fit to be around other people - a freak to make fun of and ultimately - deep down inside, to be ashamed and embarrassed of myself. As if I were a feral child, dangerous to and unfit to be included in Human Connection. (That's kinda dramatic; in essence, I feel as though I don't deserve to have people engage me... and that anything I say to them, or how I behave, is so outre and outlandish... I shouldn't even try; some part of my inner child's heart has been labeled - defective, toxic, not for human consumption.
So, to this overly multitasking emotional chaos and mental overload, I also go into these situations compelled to protect OTHER PEOPLE from me. I was so brainwashed that I believed that I was SO AWFUL a person, that I dare not let anyone know me - the real me - because they'd run away in horror. That's probably related to my mom's BIG LIE about me. Her extreme denial that I'd been raped and shot at and impregnated... as a result of her war on my dad and his very unfortunate reaction to her. It was part of a BIG SECRET about "why I am this way"... only it was more based on Nmom's feelings and experience -- than mine.
There is still some smoldering anger, deep down about this. And I'm 100% sure now - this is why I sabotage myself; why I won't just go play and enjoy myself, why work is the only way I can feel "worthy"... and it's why I sometimes resentfully, aggressively present myself to other people as the worst possible person ever... going for shock-value... "Hi, it's nice to meet you. F$(# off. Keep your distance, engage at your own risk." Or why I reject people's suggestions for getting past this, or invitations - pre-empting the chance that I would have fun. Yes, I even do this with hubs sometimes. (He's a very patient man, thankfully).
This is what I call - emotional abuse PTSD. And it's something not everyone deals with... so that right there, makes me "different". But it doesn't have to be this much of a life-inhibiting thing. I mean, most people are paying attention to their field of awareness - and their inner agendas and this "problem" isn't tattoo'd on my forehead. They don't - can't - know this about me, despite all the times my mom made sure to make ME conscious of it... like I was some kind of leper. Hell, it took 2 years of intensive therapy for my T to really see and get to this; for me to even spew it forth like some poisonous magic pill I'd swallowed... so that I could even know.
The only way people will know, is if I "telegraph" it to them - with body language, my speech patterns, the inadvertant clues or pleas for help - that emotional SOS wavelength communication - I've got as a result of the past. And lately, I've - to my total surprise - been directly telling people bits and pieces about those things. GASP!! The horror. The humiliation. The absolute relief... so I AM better than I used to be... and still have some ways to go. For me, the goal is to just be - me - when in groups of people and not be so damned self-involved (inner hypervigilance)... I'm "doing it" to myself. Grrrr.
So: the experience I had. I mentioned that some months ago, I'd confronted my phobia about handguns and taken a class. The situation was ideal: it was just me and the instructor - a total stranger (and very understanding of my fear) - at the range. The weather was foul, so it wasn't comfortable for either of us to spend much time outside, limiting how many rounds I shot. Target shooting is something that hubs really enjoys - yet he put that away; on hold; for 12 years -- just for me. So, I've been tossing around the idea of training, taking more classes, qualifying and even maybe getting my CCW permit. It's something fun we could do - play - together. In the process of talking through his experiences, another issue came up for me -- what if there are a lot of inexperienced, untrained people in the class - unsafe people, in other words. How would I react to lots of people around shooting, too?
It was cool enough one day this week, for us to make the long drive to the range. There were lots of people there, on different ranges, shooting different kinds of guns. And the minute he turned the car off, I knew I had a problem - the sound of all the gunfire turned me to quivering jello and I wanted to duck down on the floor under the dash, I was that affected. Primal fear - and also personal history was threatening to swallow me up in that instant. So we just sat in the car for a bit. Inhale. Exhale. It's OK. I made it to the office; we nervously fumbled our way through the sign in process. And then, taking our place on the range I waited for another half hour. Then I was able to get around to starting through the process of loading clips... putting on glasses and ear muffs...which helped me establish a sense of withdrawal; my boundaries... repeating all the operational safety routines in my head... making sure I knew what I was doing. And then, the fear went completely away - I heard other people's shots; I heard the range hot - range cold commands; people left... other people came in... and I was fine. Until we were all loaded up and in the car again - and I started flinching and ducking again. Because my brain went back to auto-pilot, total surroundings scan mode... without a focus point, without that "process-oriented" left-brain engagement.
Well - inner hypervigilance made me wonder: if it's this unpleasant for me, am I going to ever get used to it... and just let it be fun? Is it worth putting myself through this, to be able to do this with hubs? The alternative is simple: not do it. Hubs would understand. I wanted to make sure I would be safe and understand the operation of hubs' guns... and that's not possible, without repetition and practice. So, I asked a couple of older guys - lifetime shooters, ex-law enforcement or military - about this. The oldest, who's not very well right now but has kind of taken me under his wing... laughed when I explained my fear reaction to the shooting around me and told me he'd worry about me more if I didn't have that reaction. Put it right into perspective for me, too. There truly would be something wrong with a person, if they weren't bothered by the sound of all those shots. That got to me to thinking about this whole phenomenon... this distortion of me not feeling "worthy" to be included in groups, how I feel or don't feel safe or worthy in the context of being around other people -- whether it's a BBQ, cocktail party, hanging out at my house in the pool, or target shooting.
I think the fact that I'm learning something new, unfamiliar, that has that element of danger to it -- just like learning to ride a motorcycle or in tai chi, push-hands -- helped me see again (I gotta love repetition for it's therapeutic benefit) -- that I am not the problem; there's nothing wrong with me EXCEPT thinking I'm the problem or that there's something wrong with me.
Most people aren't shy about letting me know if I'm out of line. I worry too much about that; I don't have to protect anyone from me; I'm not a bad person - just pretty average... so I forget to run my mental fingers over my own boundaries... my own little "safety net"... and that momentary feeling of panic is because I've been so busy in my head, trying to pay attention to everything and everyone else... I've lost my orientation within my self - my center - my grounding root.
I never had a chance to learn "safety routines" about being me, around other people. Parents teach that to kids unconsciously - or should. For me, my parents were the source of my danger... and being me was synonymous with being in a dangerous situation, 24/7/365. So I learned to either protect people FROM me... or try to control other people's perception of me... or just control other people... to keep myself safe. When that control issue finally started to shift... change... heal... I didn't realize I still needed to deal with the safety, the boundary issues... the inner routine, auto-pilot checklist of switches, gauges, and feedback that points to safety/danger in all situations.
All that hypervigilance - external and inner - leads me to a whole lot of unnecessary, potentially self-abusive continuation of past experience patterns and association, and over-thinking ordinary existence. No wonder I don't have any more time or energy than I did when I was working, ya know??
This has been another big "duh" moment, brought to you by dysfunctional FOOs everywhere. We now return you to your scheduled programming which is now, in progress. hee-hee!
PS - I wish I could make this a sticky thread on this website... just for me. Maybe I oughta copy/paste/print it out and post it above my monitor.
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Amber:
That's a very fine list of epiphanies...... an unwieldy thing to keep sight of.....
to keep a firm grip.
I'd have to print it out, and put it somewhere prominent, too.
How else could one keep all those pieces of ingrained childhood survival, necessary in the moment, but toxic in the present, where intention can find it, turn it over, examine it, accept it, and act?
Reaching into your reptilian brain, inviting, coaxing, hammering, embracing change with intestinal fortitude and courage, right here on this forum, where so many may benefit from your shared journey.......
amazing.
Thank you Amber, and thank you Dr. G.
Lighter
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Yep; done Lighter -- will be an appendix to the multiple journals, I think.
Only needs to be posted where I can see it and be reminded -- until it's one of those things like : the sun comes up in the east - always - every day.
Oh yeah - I guess this is one of those: NOTES TO SELF, huh?
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Oh yeah - I guess this is one of those: NOTES TO SELF, huh?
A note to self would be different something like..........
Keep Your Head Where Your Feet Are,
Stay Out Of Other People's Heads,
Today I Will Be As Happy As A Bird With A French Fry......
that sort of thing.
You're printout is more of an appendix DETOUR SIGN TO SELF.
You're mindfully changing course again..... choosing a steep, unfamiliar path again, your feet anticipating the old familiar trail again, and not finding it again.
The new path will become familiar, then habit, then pleasure.
I guess we sometimes need reminding that we're on another path.
Lighter
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Keep Your Head Where Your Feet Are,
Stay Out Of Other People's Heads,
Today I Will Be As Happy As A Bird With A French Fry......
Yep... Sqwauck!
It's really nice when I don't have to be in my head, either. Playing in dirt facilitates that.
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Hi,
I totally relate to this. I get so nervous /panicked when in larger groups that it’s taken me years to even pluck up the courage to have input on this board. (I have an ungrounded fear that if no one responded or acknowledged my presence, I would become Voiceless on the Voicelessness board, which would be too much to bear, and what if voicing this fear was then seen as manipulative? Why is it always so complicated?) Anyway...breathe...here goes...
Socialising, work meetings, anything I’m compelled to attend terrifies me. Although I continually force myself to participate, hoping repetition might eventually conquer the fear, it never does. Always get overwhelmed and flee to my comfort zone within a short time.
I’m thinking a lot of it relates to being under the N microscope. (N Father, Borderline Mother). The sense that they were always watching me, ensuring I was “performing” in a manner that reflected well on them, behaving like the perfect robot child, watching for behaviours and social skills that could be discussed and criticised later. They were fond of stopping a group conversation to shine the spotlight on me, wherever I was hiding, forcing me to make speeches about myself, my latest achievements, experiences, whatever. Being a shy, nervous child I would be horrified... trapped and speechless. Why would anyone be interested in me? Inevitably the spotlight would simply highlight my inadequacies, humiliating me and of course, shaming them.
Much of it is still that ridiculously uncomfortable sense of people watching me, noticing how I interact or perform, ready to judge and ridicule. If I’m not totally immersed in obvious stimulating conversation with someone, “they” will see me for the socially phobic, defective misfit I really am and reject me. So I panic if I’m not interacting, but find it difficult to interact because I’m already in Social Gathering Panic Mode, and that self perpetuating anxiety eventually pushes me to bolt for the safety of my own space. I know it’s unrealistic, no one is interested in spending social events watching every move I make, but after a life time of trying, I still can’t shake off that irrational fear, even if I’m not feeling ill at ease to begin with, it just jumps up and grabs me by the throat.
I get it Phoenix, the whole hyper vigilance thing, the hard drive crashing, the waves of cortisol, the total exhaustion, feeling like an alien unfit for human connection so why am I putting myself through this? Walking away feeling that now even more people than before have seen the hidden Problem Tattoo and are repelled.
Over thinking ordinary existence... I think you’re on to something there. Thanks so much for sharing your insights on this one. It compelled me to finally write, which is a huge step forward for me.
And a big thank you to everyone here, I hope you all know how much of a positive impact your input on this board is having on shy long- time lurkers like me.
Echo
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Well, Hello Echo! Nice to meet you.
Glad you were able to write... I guess I've been "afflicted" with this, all my life. Being 50+, the frustration with being this way built way up for me -- and yes, the reasons are complicated, the process so convoluted -- and even after therapy, after recognizing with crystal clear vision... that when I had my work hat on - I was just fine and did fine... and it was the personal, social - just hanging out - kind of interactions that bothered me the most...
and even a couple nights ago* -- I still deal with this...
it is possible to get to the point, where it's not such a life/death intensity anymore. [OK, that was a tortured sentence! LOL...]
*So intensity is a lot of it, for me. Our club took a 4 hour boat trip Thursday evening to watch thousands and thousands of purple martins roost for the night on a bridge over the sound. 4 hours, trapped on a big - but still not that big - boat with 40 people. Sounds like 4 hours of torture, huh? But, I have been actively working on this issue and making headway. Couple things I noticed:
Waiting to board the boat - lots & lots of small groups of people chatting with each other. People said hi to hubs and me -- but we don't know people well enough to chat; we don't get together with people outside of the club. We were fine just waiting... and it gave me a chance to people-watch. What I noticed, were a lot of nervous gestures - people fumbling and dropping things... lots of twisting of bracelets... adjusting clothes... and the talkers: they were talking to make themselves comfortable in the situation. It wasn't so much catching up, or conversations with any substance or even shared in common experiences -- they were nervous talkers. If I tried to do that - it would just feel "wrong"; forced and artificial... a person playing a part/a role... and not me being me.
So I hung back a little. Gave myself some space... and let myself slowly interact, one person at a time. Let myself maintain my head-space and thoughts... to even drift and not pay attention. This works for me. At one point, I noticed that other people were doing exactly the same thing. It was on the ride back to the marina - that some magic line had been crossed; we'd been together long enough... as a group... that people opened up a little more, were a little more "just themselves" having a good time. I know from group dynamics that this is a pretty common phenomenon. And it's a "good" outcome.
So, it would seem that my reluctance to insert myself gregariously into groups isn't all that "weird"... or even a problem. Other people do it too... and some of them do that by mindlessly talking away - so it only APPEARS to me that I'm on the "outside looking in". In reality, some of those talkers are, too. That frees me up to stop beating myself up about being quieter... to be watching more than being active... and to be comfortable within my own skin.
I sure don't need to criticize and shame myself, for not just babbling along with the rest of the people talking about nothing... altho' I can do this -- after I let myself relax into the situation first.
(I don't seem to have the same problem of reticence, writing online - huh??? LOL.....)
Feel free to share some examples about this, from your experience Echo.
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Hi Echo,
Glad you're here.
You must have felt so UNSAFE, as a kid. Knowing that regardless of your feelings, and your natural shyness, and your need for slow or gentler adult attention, you'd be yanked forward and embarrassed like that... no wonder groups of humans trigger party-prop memories!
I wonder if something like a mantra to yourself: something simple that feels true and rational, could help. I am a gregarious bigmouth with ADD, so my problem is not NOT talking, it's sometimes the opposite. What has helped me in some stressful gatherings is a tiny note to myself, literally written at the base of my thumb on my hand. I decided to try it after reading about how much visual cues can help people. (In my case, it was "n.b." for No Blurting.) I was pretty amazed when during that stressful gathering, all I had to do was glance at my hand, and like my own little private friendly non-judgmental therapeutic pat on the back (iow, it's okay for me to practice a new behavior without getting tangled up in simultaneously feeling shame for the old one)...and I could instantly feel a sense of calm, control, and my fear (of my own blurts) receding.
If a visual cue might help you, even though it's sort of an opposite personality in the situation, I wonder if you could think up a short phrase that really feels/is true to you, in your healthiest thinking, and use the shorthand for that? Examples I think of:
--nfc (not a frightened child)
--s2bh (safe to be here)
--gaia (good as I am)
Etc. Some kind of adult, KIND reminder to yourself that is present-moment rooted. You might glance down at that tiny note to yourself when you need to, and remind yourself, this is what you believe NOW.
Anyway, bit rambly, but hope it helps (and no worries at all if it doesn't--there's no obligation here whatsoever to agree with advice, appreciate advice, or follow advice!)
hugs
Hops
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Hello again,
Thanks so much Phoenix and Hopalong for your warm welcome and kind words. It felt... different... to be noticed and heard, different and really, really nice.
I thought it interesting how you managed the boat trip Phoenix, although watching the purple martins must have been spectacular and well worth the discomfort? I'll give it a try next time...being more observant rather than worrying about being observed, although it's a bit of a head spinner I guess I really need to work on convincing myself that it's OK to hang back and not interact until I feel safer to do so, rather panicking because not interacting singles me out as an oddball loner...which I kind of am...but I'm uncomfortable with anyone else noticing!
Work do's tend to be the worst for me. We had a seminar at one stage covering Personality Types in the workforce. After various self examination exercises, staff were asked to separate into two groups, extroverts and introverts. As an introvert I was in a very obvious minority, probably around a 10:1 ratio extroverts to introverts, so there's very few socially challenged individuals in this large group of 30 to 60 staff and I do find myself getting overwhelmed and feeling like an outsider at the many social gatherings and meetings I'm obliged to attend. And if I do manage to interact I can get tongue tied when the brain to mouth link goes offline, although I know that's just a nervous reaction, I still find it difficult to control when I'm feeling vulnerable.
I like the idea of cues and mantras Hopalong, Although it's not easy to believe "as good as I am" but I get what you mean. Feeling safe is a big one and probably one to work on. Or maybe "just because I feel like an alien doesn't mean I look like one" could be another.
Thanks again for your responses and suggestions, and sorry Phoenix, I didn’t mean to hijack your thread to introduce myself, (although I’m glad I finally did), your subject just struck a chord.
Echo
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You're welcome Echo - and you're not hijacking! We're talking about the same thing... discussing... sharing... exploring "what it is" and maybe figuring out how to not let this limit our lives. (Ya gotta watch out for my tendency to blab on & on, online though... I feel way free-er to bubble over my boundaries here than I do in person. So I'm formally giving you permission to do the same, when you've got something to say. Don 't let me steamroll YOU, in the process and I'll try to rein myself in.)
Something that helped me "come out of my shell" was to realize (and yeah, it had to be pointed out to me) that most people are so self-involved that unless you're actively making an ass out of yourself... they're not examining you with a microscope. You're not topic #1 at all.
But that FEELING - that every single twitch of your nose, strand of hair, how your clothes hang, your posture - is under minute examination and judgement (which just shrinks our real spirit, our self down to be as invisible as possible inside) that feeling has been programmed into us - our brains - and is now a mental habit. I feel it every single time I'm in a social situation. And even though it seems contrary, that practice of letting myself "regroup" myself in that situation before venturing out into conversations with other people, helps me banish that feeling. It seems a little backwards, to be reassured through observation, that no one is paying attention to me at all - hahaha! But it definitely works!
Another thing that helps, is to have something to do. Even though it's simultaneously one of those things I can be really overly self-conscious about. I can focus on the doing - and less on how I feel - and simply interact with others.
This is one of those long-term "effects" of Nparents, I think... it's like a fossil frozen into our experiential memory... and because it was so painful and traumatic for us in the past -- we keep expecting the same thing to happen in the present and future. That memory doesn't take into consideration, that
a) the people are completely different people than those associated with the memory
b) the roles are totally different (we're not in a parent-child role relationship with everyone*)
c) the best thing about life, is that each moment, something completely new can - and does - happen, if we allow it. And a lot of those new things are delightful, happy "discoveries".
* I just tripped over this idea: part of the reason I feel out of step in some situations, is that I'm feeling - perhaps have that need for reassurance - I'm feeling in the child role, when experiencing other situations. Right there - I'm not seeing myself on an equal adult footing with others. So through repetition I'm actively reinforcing the fossil in my brain/feelings. Thank goodness mantras and affirmations and reminders are the simple antidote to that!!
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My need, my way, my perception is no more important than that of others (like that of drama queens). I want to learn from the experiences of others as well as my own.
Absolutely, tt -- I know this is one major reason I drift through the posts here almost every day. I actually "learn" to see my needa, way of being me & perception more accurately, when it's in the context of how others see and understand themselves. The valuable lessons - of where my self-vision is distorted, perhaps even totally incorrect -- have completely helped me along my path and made it possible to step right over what used to be taboos, self-limitations based on those old-FOO-legacy "rules", for me.
Now, if I can just figure out how to talk - express some of those flashes of insight or learn the language of emotions well enough - so that I'm not tripping all over myself with self-censorship, caution, fear of people reacting in horror at me, and the old "protecting others from the monster that is myself" programming I have... without 40,000 words to do so!!
Get some sleep - I'm gonna have more active, than intellectual day today - I'm between company and we're back to house projects again and plain old housework.