Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Dr. Richard Grossman on March 21, 2015, 08:40:42 PM
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Hi everybody,
Doctor’s are usually great at treating/acknowledging disorders that fit readily in one of the diagnostic boxes. However, if you have a disorder that does not neatly fit (and I have one of those in the autoimmune area), sometimes you can be subject to dismissal, anger, insult, and even abuse.
Recently my Primary Care Physician of ten years asked me to come in because my wife had e-mailed him about the pain/discomfort I am in. I am reluctant, at best, to see doctors, unless I know there is something they can do for me (autoimmune issues that remains unclassified and untreatable.) I have read 100’s of studies in this area because of my disorder and because I have a stake in a small life science company investigating autoimmune disease treatments.
My PCP asked me about my pain/discomfort, and when I finished telling him he said: “You are going around looking for sympathy.” I was shocked, and managed to get out of my mouth: “Oh, please!” Apparently, he was responding to the fact that in the past few years I had gotten a second opinion from a rheumatologist and also seen an allergist to rule out that cause of inflammation/nerve damage. I would have seen neither doctor because I knew the odds of them finding anything I didn’t already know about were almost nil—but my wife had insisted (“You can’t just do your own research/diagnosing…”) and also because I had just developed two new symptoms, Raynaud’s Phenomenon and photosensitivity, that might put me in a diagnostic “box.”
My PCP did his physical exam and when he finished said nothing. So I asked him gently whether he had seen one of the new areas of inflammation/swelling that I had noted minutes before (insertional Achilles tendinitis). He got angry. “Do you want to see my heel?” he said. (In other words: You are in no more pain/discomfort than anyone else.) Then he said I got that symptom from all the trials of quinolones (broad spectrum antibiotics) I had been on. I didn’t have the heart to tell him: I had only been on one trial (he prescribed it) that I had stopped after a few weeks because of a small knot developing in my Achilles tendon—but this was years ago and in another part of the tendon.
When we sat down in his office again, in response to my saying that I believe I have an autoimmune disorder, he said “Your CRP level (C-reactive protein--an inflammatory measure) is low." And then, angrily: "What do you want me to do?” He didn’t let me answer. I would have said: “Nothing. You’ve forgotten that you asked to see me today. I know the treatment options, and am aware that there’s nothing more to be done right now.” Instead he ordered nerve testing on my dead leg nerves—(IMO, there’s no reason for further testing—they’re dead) and my arm nerves. Then he dismissed me from the office.
When I was checking out with the receptionist, I saw him briefly in the doorway. “I’m sorry,” I said. (LOL, this was my typical childhood response to situations like this…) He said nothing and waved me off with the flick of a hand.
I’ll stop here for now!
Richard
P.S. Because of my research, I know that autoimmune understanding is in its infancy. This is, unfortunately, part of the issue at hand. For those in the medical/medical research profession I have a positive ANA and an IGG above the normal range—all else (blood-wise) is in the normal range--my CRP level is on the lower end of normal. Based upon my symptomatology and this blood work, I fit in the UCTD (Undifferentiated Connective Tissue Disease) category—but not in the better-defined connective tissue disease boxes, e.g., Lupus, Sjrogen’s, MCTD, Smith’s, etc. Interestingly/sadly, my mother had connective tissue issues and died in her mid-60’s of Non-Hodgkins lymphoma. We know the two are related, but don’t know how/why.
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Yikes.
My brother went to 9 doctors before he found one that diagnosed him with Ankylosing spondylitis. It is genetic so there is a blood test that can be done for it which definitely gives a yes or a no. Sad that people have to go through so much dismissal.
I guess it is easier for doctors to say "you are making it up" than it is for them to say "I don't know".
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What a horrible encounter.
I devoutly hope that was your last appointment with this physician.
How frustrating for you ... and I am so sorry about the pain you are in.
Pain is a conversation nobody wants to be having with some boor who won't let them get away.
I'm so sorry.
Hops
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Hi Dr. G,
I’m so sorry to hear you are in pain.
I hope you can find a new PCP because this one sounds awful.
Someone I know once said that one should not go to a caregiver if one doesn’t like that caregiver & I agree. I think it’s important to have a rapport with a doctor.
I think it’s telling that you apologized, like “Gee Doc, I’m sorry I displeased you”, LOL!
You deserve much better and I bet you can find someone better.
I agree that autoimmune is still in it’s infancy, but there are some docs who get it & I hope you find a good one who you like.
Wishing you all the best and relief.
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YIKES!!!!
It's bad enough to be in chronic physical pain and it's WORSE to be VOICELESS in a doctor's office because the doctor is NOT INTERESTED in LISTENING!!!!!
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Wow, Dr G, I'm astonished to read that, I'm so sorry that you went through that with that man, for some reason I'd always assumed that doctors only have it in for certain types of people (in the UK they seem to assume anyone on a low income is stupid and causing and/or imagining their health problems, if you're female you could go in with your head chopped off and they'd still try and put you on anti-depressants). But it seems there are doctors who are that rude and aggressive whoever you might be. He sounds awful and very bad at his job.
Personally I think researching your own health and finding things that work for you is a great way to go. I've done masses of research over the years into my son's health and I find it very empowering, particularly if you are dealing with a health problem for which there is no cure and is something that you just have to find a way to manage day to day. But I hope that in the course of your research that you come across a better doctor who puts his patients first.
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Oh wow!! That is very familiar and very not cool! It is, unfortunately, very doctor like behavior but also completely unacceptable. One of my criteria for keeping a doctor is that they listen to me. You doc is not only not listening to you, he is putting words in your mouth! He is making you not only voiceless but has created his own image of who you are. I would urge you to consider changing pcp's. They are the center of our personal health care and they need to be good at that job. Unfortunately, it sounds like yours sucks. I think it is especially important to have a good pcp when you have chronic health issues. I also have an autoimmune disease (someday I want to do a survey on how many people who experience voicelessness have autoimmune diseases!), my pcp is fantastic but I had to shop around for him. I fired my own of ten years and asked around for someone good. My current pcp listens to me, takes what I say seriously, documents what I say (the importance stuff), and is all around good at his job. You wouldn't take your car to a mechanic that behaved like your doc did, don't take your body to someone like that either. You deserve better.
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Sorry you're struggling, Doc.
Have you done any research into Nutritional Response Testing? You may get some relief with a different approach, certainly with a different doctor.
The NRT practitioner I took my children to see was wonderful. She identified things Western docs never consider... the results were astonishing.
Treating the causes, instead of symptoms, makes a lot of sense. Hopefully you can get some referrals to doctors willing to listen, and perhaps refer you in the right direction if they don't know what to do. Doctors shouldn't shame and belittle patients when the doctor is out of his depth.
Lighter
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Wow! Thank you Garbanzo, Hops, teartracks, ann3, Bones, Twoapenny, Worn, and Lighter for your kind words of support! (I have to be careful—I may get used to it and start going around “looking for sympathy …)
There is so much to talk about in this arena. If I may post some thoughts in separate posts on this thread…
Garbanzo: “I guess it is easier for doctors to say "you are making it up" than it is for them to say "I don't know".”
At least in my neck of the woods (the Harvard Medical School system), many doctors went into the profession and ended up here in small part to help people, but in large part because of the status. I was naïve enough in my 20’s to believe that the Harvard Medical School system was where the smartest doctors/health professionals in the world were. What I found was a world dominated by narcissism and politics. I was told repeatedly while I was on staff and teaching at Mass. General Hospital that I had to play the game. LOL, my genes would never allow it—my daughter is exactly the same way. So was my mother (my mother almost did not graduate Barnard College because she refused to meet the silly gym requirement.) The last time I questioned the dominance of politics over all else, my MGH unit chief said “Welcome to the adult world,” and I said, via subtext: “Not my adult world.” I quit—and disappeared (in my work life) to my moldy basement—a tiny space that ultimately became filled with love, attachment, and real people. (OK, the occasional spider would bow and scrape…) Who could ask for a better world?!!!
So, you’re right Garbanzo—doctors, in general, and Harvard Medical school doctors in particular have a hard time saying: “I don’t know.”
Richard
P.S. One of the benefits of spending my 20’s working/teaching in the MGH/HMS system, of course, is that this Board (and my web site in general), emerged, in large part, from my discovery of what esteemed “adult life” could be like.
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Hops, ann3, Bones, Twoapenny, and Worn re: finding another doctor/PCP. Yes, I found another doctor. I’m not the type of person who absorbs anger/insult and comes back for more. Of course, I had to write him a letter/e-mail—because I’m also not the kind of person (especially at this age) who would/could just disappear and not say anything.
First, I thanked him for his care over the years. Then, I pointed out the relevant research. Next, I told him he was wrong about me personally i.e. his notion that I was the kind of person who went around looking for sympathy. (Maybe I should have when I was raising 3 teenagers in my 20’s, LOL!) And finally I concluded with:
“I know the treatment options—there are very few besides NSAID’s (which bring no significant relief). But certainly, in the future, it would be better to say genuinely to patients such as myself: ‘I know your quality of life is diminished, and I wish there were something I could do to help, but unfortunately, there isn’t.’ Such a statement is the polar opposite of anger and insult.”
Of course all of the above has much to do with the personality of the particular doctor. I won’t say more, because I have no interest in revealing who he is. But there’s one more overarching issue: The lives of doctors have changed/are changing dramatically because of the need to reduce costs and the reduced income. From the provider end, dealing with insurance companies is often a nightmare. And I know from my doctor patients, that many doctors now regret their career choice and would never recommend such a choice to their children. I worry that some of the anger this generates will be directed (particularly by power/status conscious doctors) towards patients who do not improve as a result of treatment. There certainly are many of us out there…
Richard
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Excellent way to answer him. And good point about the changing environment of medicine. I have no doubt the environment my previous Dr was in contributed to their behavior. She was burnt out. I really wish, and it's not too late (it's been a little over 2 years but I was a patient for 10) that I had sent my doc a letter when I left. Your post made me think of several reasons why:
1. Maybe they would learn from it and it might help when they're interacting with their next patient. Someone in a similar position to mine. I bet they rarely if ever get feedback from patients about how their ways of interacting with people are toxic. Of course they may take my feedback and shove it but that brings me to...
2. I would at least get to have my say. I could give a voice to how I wanted to respond to the situation. Not pressured by time. Able to really think over my response. Instead of trying to react in an emotion filled situation. I would have time to think thoroughly about why this crossed boundaries and was not an acceptable way to treat me.
3. I have a relationship with this doctor. After ten years of her for the most part being a great doctor, I owe her an explanation of why I'm leaving. She's a good person, she's just not the right person to be my doctor.
I have an appointment with my current pcp tomorrow. We've talked about how when I tell him how I'm doing I know there's probably not much he can do about it, but I want him to document it anyway. I may bring up a version of what you said here, that it's OK for doctors to say the following:
"‘I know your quality of life is diminished, and I wish there were something I could do to help, but unfortunately, there isn’t.’ Such a statement is the polar opposite of anger and insult.”"
I think that statement may make some doctors very uncomfortable. They've put in all these years of study and they don't have anything they can do for someone. They want to help, that's why they're there, but they're helpless. That can be hard to handle when you're the guy that's supposed to have all the answers.
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Dr. G,
I am so sorry to hear you are suffering. You've done so much good for others, so it saddens me even more. Maybe try alternative therapies, like acupuncture?
You are such a Gentleman for writing the PCP such a reasonable, rational note. It's his loss & your gain. I hope you find a caregiver who's really wonderful and who will help you to feel better. And, if ya need some sympathy & some atta boys, why not post here? I think you're pretty well loved here.
I know I'm crossing threads, but this is beautifully written &, IMO, worthy of a (your?) book; if you want, maybe just change some names. I like the narrator's voice:
At least in my neck of the woods (the Harvard Medical School system), many doctors went into the profession and ended up here in small part to help people, but in large part because of the status. I was naïve enough in my 20’s to believe that the Harvard Medical School system was where the smartest doctors/health professionals in the world were. What I found was a world dominated by narcissism and politics. I was told repeatedly while I was on staff and teaching at Mass. General Hospital that I had to play the game. LOL, my genes would never allow it—my daughter is exactly the same way. So was my mother (my mother almost did not graduate Barnard College because she refused to meet the silly gym requirement.) The last time I questioned the dominance of politics over all else, my MGH unit chief said “Welcome to the adult world,” and I said, via subtext: “Not my adult world.” I quit—and disappeared (in my work life) to my moldy basement—a tiny space that ultimately became filled with love, attachment, and real people. (OK, the occasional spider would bow and scrape…) Who could ask for a better world?!!!
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Teartracks: “Makes me recall your play "Room With Maintenance", Dr. G. “
In your next career, teartracks, if you’re not doing it already, you could be a literature professor! Yes, that is a play about me and what I have been through, pain-wise, the past decade plus all the concurrent maintenance I’ve had to do on an 1895 2-family Victorian. The carpenter wasn’t based on my internist/PCP, however—the character was modeled, in part, on a surgeon who enthusiastically recommended cutting out a part of me, telling me I’d feel much better.
This winter, with record-breaking snow, ice dams, leaks throughout the house, doors that were frozen shut, 9 foot piles of shoveled snow in our front yard, etc., etc., I prayed every day for Angelo the Maintenance Man to appear. Sadly, he never came. I was in a “room without maintenance”—and I can tell you flat out, it was Hell!
(For those who have no idea what we're talking about, the play can be found here: https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/217274)
Richard
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Haven't much useful to add, Doc G, except that mold isn't good for you, especially if you have compromised health.
Hope you can have it well abated and then run a dehumidifier 24/7 to keep it from coming back...
Healthfully hopefully,
Hops
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lighter: “Have you done any research into Nutritional Response Testing?”
Thanks, lighter! I haven’t, but I’ll look into it. The problem I have with many of the nutritional (e.g. gluten-free diet) and other non-medical solutions is that when I ask practitioners whether they have had success with people who have significant autoimmune issues, typically they scratch their heads and say either, “I don’t know,” or, “it doesn’t matter.” Given those responses, while I’m sure they can help some people, given the nature/source of my problem, I doubt that they can help me.
BTW, I have tremendous respect for two of the practitioners I saw, one, an acupuncturist and the second, a physical therapist. When they did their exams/tests and I told them the nature/extent of the problem(s), both immediately said they were sorry but they couldn’t help me. I so appreciated their honesty.
Hops: "Haven't much useful to add, Doc G, except that mold isn't good for you, especially if you have compromised health.
Hope you can have it well abated and then run a dehumidifier 24/7 to keep it from coming back..."
Thanks, Hops! I've told this story of true love before here, but I'll repeat it because it's something I'll remember 'til the day I die. When my daughter was 4 (?), one day I came up from my office and Hildy (my wife) said: "You smell like mold." Before I could respond my daughter said: "I like the smell of mold--it smells like Dad."
Richard
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Worn: “I have an appointment with my current pcp tomorrow. We've talked about how when I tell him how I'm doing I know there's probably not much he can do about it, but I want him to document it anyway.”
I think that’s great, Worn! (And by the way, welcome back!)
Richard
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Hi Doc G,
My mind is still twinging (red flag! red flag!) over your mention that you work in your "moldy basement."
Whether or not it has a key impact on your illnesses I don't know, but it is truly a factor in poor health.
Here is an excellent objective summary.
http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.acpm.org/resource/resmgr/timetools-files/timetool_indoormold_resource.pdf (http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.acpm.org/resource/resmgr/timetools-files/timetool_indoormold_resource.pdf)
Hope it helps even a bit,
Hops
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Hi Hops,
Sorry, I didn’t mean to discount the importance of mold by not responding to your concern. I read the article—thanks for sending it my way. Luckily (knock on wood), I have no upper respiratory symptoms—and for years we have run a dehumidifier all summer long, so everything is now much dryer in our offices.
Richard
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Hi ann3,
Dr. G,
I am so sorry to hear you are suffering. You've done so much good for others, so it saddens me even more. Maybe try alternative therapies, like acupuncture?
You are such a Gentleman for writing the PCP such a reasonable, rational note. It's his loss & your gain. I hope you find a caregiver who's really wonderful and who will help you to feel better. And, if ya need some sympathy & some atta boys, why not post here? I think you're pretty well loved here.
I know I'm crossing threads, but this is beautifully written &, IMO, worthy of a (your?) book; if you want, maybe just change some names. I like the narrator's voice:
At least in my neck of the woods (the Harvard Medical School system), many doctors went into the profession and ended up here in small part to help people, but in large part because of the status. I was naïve enough in my 20’s to believe that the Harvard Medical School system was where the smartest doctors/health professionals in the world were. What I found was a world dominated by narcissism and politics. I was told repeatedly while I was on staff and teaching at Mass. General Hospital that I had to play the game. LOL, my genes would never allow it—my daughter is exactly the same way. So was my mother (my mother almost did not graduate Barnard College because she refused to meet the silly gym requirement.) The last time I questioned the dominance of politics over all else, my MGH unit chief said “Welcome to the adult world,” and I said, via subtext: “Not my adult world.” I quit—and disappeared (in my work life) to my moldy basement—a tiny space that ultimately became filled with love, attachment, and real people. (OK, the occasional spider would bow and scrape…) Who could ask for a better world?!!!
Thank you--I feel the love from the Board that you refer to. That love is also an important part of my life. I'll respond to the book idea in the Back Again thread (http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=10328.0).
Richard
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Hiya Doc,
Nothing to add to the discussion about doctors, but I did have an auto-immune disorder a few years back called sarcoid which manifests as tiny clumps of macrophages forming granulomas, most often in the lungs. The granulomas are relatively harmless but the body forms scar tissue around them. It usually turns itself off and mine already had by the time I went to the doc. It can be serious but mine just resulted in some scarring of my lower lungs and what the eggheads call exertional dyspnea; you get short of breath easier when you exert yourself.
All of which is the long way of saying it left me with a persistent nagging cough, because almost all auto-immune diseases result in inflammation.
I suck down 1500mg of krill oil per day and my cough is gone. If I stop it comes back. It is an amazing anti inflammatory and has no side effects other than good ones such as protecting your coronary arteries. Can't hurt to use it whatever is going on with you, assuming you aren't already.
Dr. Mud
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Hi Dr. Mud,
Thanks for the suggestion. I am taking 2000 mg of fish oil. Not sure whether it has an effect because I've been taking it for a good number of years. The other supplement I am taking is high bioavailability curcumin/turmeric. Again, I'm not sure it's having any anti-inflammatory effect--but there may be side benefits to this supplement as well. The Indian population has a relatively low incidence of Alzheimer's/dementia, and one possibility is that it's a result of the relatively high amount of cucurmin/turmeric they consume. Of course, this finding may be a matter of genetics, but we'll see how the experimental trials turn out...
Richard
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Tried the fish oil but it made my throat feel like a fish ladder at a dam as the disgusting little things kept trying to jump back out as soon as I swallowed them leaving a track of their revolting oil on the way up.
No such problem with krill oil.
Maybe Indians get Alzheimer's so infrequently because they're usually swallowed by a tiger, punctured by a cobra or otherwise indisposed before the onset can occur.
mud
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Doc G:
The NTP we saw didn't have all the answers, but she was able to look at inflammation, causes, parasites, chemical toxins, environmental toxins, food allergies, food sensitivities, foods our bodies require more of, foods to limit, not eating anything every day, identify what systems in the body struggling most, teach us to deal with them, one by one, till whole body balance is restored, and the body is handling everything on it's own.
It's true that she extinguished gluten, sugar and dairy from day one for all three of us. I mean, zero fruit.... no sugar at all. Some people can add things back in, once they know what they're sensitive to.
I was eating 14oz of lean, organic protein 3X a day. The results were amazing for me and one of my children... the one with whole body inflammation, insulin issues, etc. The other child didn't really have any responses to the change in diet, and dx's, other than her teeth grinding stopped. Just know why she was grinding was worth her visits, even though she didn't have the inflammation/food sensitivities the older child has.
Food choices aren't the only issue addressed, Doc. It's a small integral part.
I say, check into it if you can find someone in your area.
Desperate times sometimes call for desperate measures; )
Lighter
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Dr. Grossman:
I was so sorry to read of your health problems. I hope that you have found a new doctor who can become your partner in this journey you are on.
The experience you described is so troubling and sad. I am very glad, however, that you did not remain "voiceless in the doctor's office". Unfortunately, I believe the experience you had is not all that uncommon. There is no excuse for it, nonetheless. Some doctors still have the belief system that their opinion or diagnosis should not be questioned as they are the sole "authority" on all matters. That just simply doesn't fly anymore.
Today, we all need to be proactive about our health and work at being our own advocates. Fortunately, we are living in times when so much more information and research is at our disposal. Doctors who are incapable of two-way conversations with patients, are unable to have intelligent conversations about alternate thinking or research and who fail to treat their patients (i.e., customers!) with respect are not deserving to be our partner when it comes to our health care. There are doctors out there still who are worthy of our respect. Those are the docs I want on my team.
Ego plays such a large part still in how U.S. doctors dole out their treatment. Many doctors have not yet gotten on board with the concept that healthcare is a two-way journey between doctor and patient.
At one point in my journey, I sought out a therapist, even though the process was a difficult one for me. During the course of treatment and after a particularly difficult episode in my life, I questioned the therapist's diagnosis and treatment approach. His response was to tell me to "just go out and get laid". (Yup, really). I realized his ego was far bigger than his desire to help his patient. Needless to say, I communicated my feelings about his response and made a quick exit. :)
I certainly will pray that your new doctor will guide you to a better path for your health issues and do so with the respect and empathy you deserve.
Please take special care of yourself.
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In your next career, teartracks, if you’re not doing it already, you could be a literature professor!
Well sputter, sputter, putt, putt, that's an amusing thought :lol:
tt
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Dr. Grossman:
I was so sorry to read of your health problems. I hope that you have found a new doctor who can become your partner in this journey you are on.
The experience you described is so troubling and sad. I am very glad, however, that you did not remain "voiceless in the doctor's office". Unfortunately, I believe the experience you had is not all that uncommon. There is no excuse for it, nonetheless. Some doctors still have the belief system that their opinion or diagnosis should not be questioned as they are the sole "authority" on all matters. That just simply doesn't fly anymore.
Today, we all need to be proactive about our health and work at being our own advocates. Fortunately, we are living in times when so much more information and research is at our disposal. Doctors who are incapable of two-way conversations with patients, are unable to have intelligent conversations about alternate thinking or research and who fail to treat their patients (i.e., customers!) with respect are not deserving to be our partner when it comes to our health care. There are doctors out there still who are worthy of our respect. Those are the docs I want on my team.
Ego plays such a large part still in how U.S. doctors dole out their treatment. Many doctors have not yet gotten on board with the concept that healthcare is a two-way journey between doctor and patient.
At one point in my journey, I sought out a therapist, even though the process was a difficult one for me. During the course of treatment and after a particularly difficult episode in my life, I questioned the therapist's diagnosis and treatment approach. His response was to tell me to "just go out and get laid". (Yup, really). I realized his ego was far bigger than his desire to help his patient. Needless to say, I communicated my feelings about his response and made a quick exit. :)
I certainly will pray that your new doctor will guide you to a better path for your health issues and do so with the respect and empathy you deserve.
Please take special care of yourself.
Geez, Sunblue!
That "therapist" sounds just like the clown I had to fire! He was also hell-bent on destroying my sobriety because he announced he "could control my addiction" and attempted to forbid me to go to AA meetings because it made him jealous! What a JERK!!!!
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Dr. Grossman:
I was so sorry to read of your health problems. I hope that you have found a new doctor who can become your partner in this journey you are on.
The experience you described is so troubling and sad. I am very glad, however, that you did not remain "voiceless in the doctor's office". Unfortunately, I believe the experience you had is not all that uncommon. There is no excuse for it, nonetheless. Some doctors still have the belief system that their opinion or diagnosis should not be questioned as they are the sole "authority" on all matters. That just simply doesn't fly anymore.
Today, we all need to be proactive about our health and work at being our own advocates. Fortunately, we are living in times when so much more information and research is at our disposal. Doctors who are incapable of two-way conversations with patients, are unable to have intelligent conversations about alternate thinking or research and who fail to treat their patients (i.e., customers!) with respect are not deserving to be our partner when it comes to our health care. There are doctors out there still who are worthy of our respect. Those are the docs I want on my team.
Ego plays such a large part still in how U.S. doctors dole out their treatment. Many doctors have not yet gotten on board with the concept that healthcare is a two-way journey between doctor and patient.
At one point in my journey, I sought out a therapist, even though the process was a difficult one for me. During the course of treatment and after a particularly difficult episode in my life, I questioned the therapist's diagnosis and treatment approach. His response was to tell me to "just go out and get laid". (Yup, really). I realized his ego was far bigger than his desire to help his patient. Needless to say, I communicated my feelings about his response and made a quick exit. :)
I certainly will pray that your new doctor will guide you to a better path for your health issues and do so with the respect and empathy you deserve.
Please take special care of yourself.
Hi sunblue,
What a terrific post! I second all you say!
Your dreadful experience with the therapist somehow reminded me of an experience I had with my first therapist when I was in my 20’s (I know I’ve told this story in the past, so please forgive…). My first session after I got married, I was excited to bring in photos from the wedding. My therapist went through them without saying a word, as I eagerly looked on waiting for a response. When he was finished, he handed the photos back, paused for a second then said: “That was a bosomy wedding.” During the session he said nothing else about the wedding, nor did he ask me what it was like for me.
Arrogance and narcissism.
I’m glad you fired him, sunblue!
Thank you for your kind wishes…
Richard
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Doc G:
The NTP we saw didn't have all the answers, but she was able to look at inflammation, causes, parasites, chemical toxins, environmental toxins, food allergies, food sensitivities, foods our bodies require more of, foods to limit, not eating anything every day, identify what systems in the body struggling most, teach us to deal with them, one by one, till whole body balance is restored, and the body is handling everything on it's own.
It's true that she extinguished gluten, sugar and dairy from day one for all three of us. I mean, zero fruit.... no sugar at all. Some people can add things back in, once they know what they're sensitive to.
I was eating 14oz of lean, organic protein 3X a day. The results were amazing for me and one of my children... the one with whole body inflammation, insulin issues, etc. The other child didn't really have any responses to the change in diet, and dx's, other than her teeth grinding stopped. Just know why she was grinding was worth her visits, even though she didn't have the inflammation/food sensitivities the older child has.
Food choices aren't the only issue addressed, Doc. It's a small integral part.
I say, check into it if you can find someone in your area.
Desperate times sometimes call for desperate measures; )
Lighter
Hi lighter,
When I googled nutritional response testing, I realized that I did see a practitioner a number of years ago. (I never learned what the process was called.) It was an interesting practice because they not only treated humans, but dogs/animals as well. My wife’s eye doctor had recommended the practice because it had helped members (child and dog?) of his family even though the scientific evidence was lacking. When I had described my symptoms and my muscle/nerve testing was over, the therapist did not prescribe any nutritional changes. Instead, she said she was going to treat me with (for lack of a better word) a “clicker” that would stimulate particular nerves and make me feel better. She gave me the first treatment, and I didn’t feel any different, nor did I have any confidence that further treatment of this kind would help (I know, I’m a damn scientist!), so I didn’t go back.
But perhaps the dietary side would help. I’m so glad you and both of your kids were helped. Maybe someday I’ll give the nutritional side another try…
Thanks again for the suggestion,
Richard
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Hi Bones,
"That "therapist" sounds just like the clown I had to fire! He was also hell-bent on destroying my sobriety because he announced he "could control my addiction" and attempted to forbid me to go to AA meetings because it made him jealous! What a JERK!!!!"
One can find these destructive therapists everywhere! Glad you fired him!
Richard
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Alas, there are jerks in every field, including medicine.
And egos.
I think there are big flaws in medical education, too.
Strong personalities may be attracted to or corrupted by the way the system sets up a hierarchy, at the top of which is the doctor-god. There might be some only mildly arrogant, yet highly promising, medical students who are infected/affected by this system to the point that their burgeoning narcissism is fed and fed and fed...
Others may be humbled by the human parade before them, and become true healers.
I think it's nearly impossible to get through an adult life that includes the need for healers without running into some of the rotten ones.
But the system doesn't help to bring out the best in many doctors. It literally warps some of them, I believe.
There should be every bit as much training on empathy and communication skills as there is on anatomy and disease states. But it just doesn't happen enough. Forever, empathy was left to "the women" (the nurses)...as the god-factory ground on.
I have to say though that if I take the long view and look back...more doctors have been competent and kind to me than have been jerks.
Hops
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Hi Bones,
"That "therapist" sounds just like the clown I had to fire! He was also hell-bent on destroying my sobriety because he announced he "could control my addiction" and attempted to forbid me to go to AA meetings because it made him jealous! What a JERK!!!!"
One can find these destructive therapists everywhere! Glad you fired him!
Richard
Thanks, Richard!
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This is such an interesting post. I read it last week and wrote a responce which inadvertently didn't post. Before I attempt to reconstruct that post I'm going to read the read of the thread and pits a bit later.