Voiceless in the doctor's office

[Dr. Richard Grossman]

Worn:  “I have an appointment with my current pcp tomorrow.  We've talked about how when I tell him how I'm doing I know there's probably not much he can do about it, but I want him to document it anyway.”

I think that’s great, Worn!  (And by the way, welcome back!) 

Richard

[Hopalong]

Hi Doc G,
My mind is still twinging (red flag! red flag!) over your mention that you work in your "moldy basement."

Whether or not it has a key impact on your illnesses I don't know, but it is truly a factor in poor health.
Here is an excellent objective summary.

http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.acpm.org/resource/resmgr/timetools-files/timetool_indoormold_resource.pdf

Hope it helps even a bit,
Hops

[Dr. Richard Grossman]

Hi Hops,

Sorry, I didn’t mean to discount the importance of mold by not responding to your concern.  I read the article—thanks for sending it my way.  Luckily (knock on wood), I have no upper respiratory symptoms—and for years we have run a dehumidifier all summer long, so everything is now much dryer in our offices.

Richard

[Dr. Richard Grossman]

Hi ann3,

Dr. G,

I am so sorry to hear you are suffering.  You've done so much good for others, so it saddens me even more.  Maybe try alternative therapies, like acupuncture?
You are such a Gentleman for writing the PCP such a reasonable, rational note.  It's his loss & your gain.  I hope you find a caregiver who's really wonderful and who will help you to feel better.  And, if ya need some sympathy & some atta boys, why not post here?  I think you're pretty well loved here.

I know I'm crossing threads, but this is beautifully written &, IMO, worthy of a (your?) book; if you want, maybe just change some names.  I like the narrator's voice:

At least in my neck of the woods (the Harvard Medical School system), many doctors went into the profession and ended up here in small part to help people, but in large part because of the status.  I was naïve enough in my 20’s to believe that the Harvard Medical School system was where the smartest doctors/health professionals in the world were.  What I found was a world dominated by narcissism and politics.  I was told repeatedly while I was on staff and teaching at Mass. General Hospital that I had to play the game.  LOL, my genes would never allow it—my daughter is exactly the same way.  So was my mother (my mother almost did not graduate Barnard College because she refused to meet the silly gym requirement.)  The last time I questioned the dominance of politics over all else, my MGH unit chief said “Welcome to the adult world,” and I said, via subtext:  “Not my adult world.”  I quit—and disappeared (in my work life) to my moldy basement—a tiny space that ultimately became filled with love, attachment, and real people.  (OK, the occasional spider would bow and scrape…)  Who could ask for a better world?!!!

Thank you--I feel the love from the Board that you refer to.  That love is also an important part of my life.  I'll respond to the book idea in the Back Again thread  (http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=10328.0).

Richard

[mudpuppy]

Hiya Doc,
Nothing to add to the discussion about doctors, but I did have an auto-immune disorder a few years back called sarcoid which manifests as tiny clumps of macrophages forming granulomas, most often in the lungs. The granulomas are relatively harmless but the body forms scar tissue around them. It usually turns itself off and mine already had by the time I  went to the doc. It can be serious but mine just resulted in some scarring of my lower lungs and what the eggheads call exertional dyspnea; you get short of breath easier when you exert yourself.

All of which is the long way of saying it left me with a persistent nagging cough, because almost all auto-immune diseases result in inflammation.
I suck down 1500mg of krill oil per day and my cough is gone. If I stop it comes back. It is an amazing anti inflammatory and has no side effects other than good ones such as protecting your coronary arteries. Can't hurt to use it whatever is going on with you, assuming you aren't already.

Dr. Mud

[Dr. Richard Grossman]

Hi Dr. Mud,

Thanks for the suggestion.  I am taking 2000 mg of fish oil.  Not sure whether it has an effect because I've been taking it for a good number of years.  The other supplement I am taking is high bioavailability curcumin/turmeric.  Again, I'm not sure it's having any anti-inflammatory effect--but there may be side benefits to this supplement as well.  The Indian population has a relatively low incidence of Alzheimer's/dementia, and one possibility is that it's a result of the relatively high amount of cucurmin/turmeric they consume.  Of course, this finding may be a matter of genetics, but we'll see how the experimental trials turn out...

Richard

[mudpuppy]

Tried the fish oil but it made my throat feel like a fish ladder at a dam as the disgusting little things kept trying to jump back out as soon as I swallowed them leaving a track of their revolting oil on the way up.
No such problem with krill oil.

Maybe Indians get Alzheimer's so infrequently because they're usually swallowed by a tiger, punctured by a cobra or otherwise indisposed before the onset can occur.

mud

[lighter]

Doc G:

The NTP we saw didn't have all the answers, but she was able to look at inflammation, causes, parasites, chemical toxins, environmental toxins, food allergies, food sensitivities, foods our bodies require more of, foods to limit, not eating anything every day, identify what systems in the body struggling most, teach us to deal with them, one by one,  till whole body balance is restored, and the body is handling everything on it's own.

It's true that she extinguished gluten, sugar and dairy from day one for all three of us.  I mean, zero fruit.... no sugar at all.  Some people can add things back in, once they know what they're sensitive to.

I was eating 14oz of lean, organic protein 3X a day.   The results were amazing for me and one of my children... the one with whole body inflammation, insulin issues, etc.  The other child didn't really have any responses to the change in diet, and dx's, other than her teeth grinding stopped.  Just know why she was grinding was worth her visits, even though she didn't have the inflammation/food sensitivities the older child has.  

Food choices aren't the only issue addressed, Doc.  It's a small integral part.  

I say, check into it if you can find someone in your area.  

Desperate times sometimes call for desperate measures; )

Lighter

[sunblue]

Dr. Grossman:

I was so sorry to read of your health problems.  I hope that you have found a new doctor who can become your partner in this journey you are on. 

The experience you described is so troubling and sad.  I am very glad, however, that you did not remain "voiceless in the doctor's office".  Unfortunately, I believe the experience you had is not all that uncommon.  There is no excuse for it, nonetheless.  Some doctors still have the belief system that their opinion or diagnosis should not be questioned as they are the sole "authority" on all matters. That just simply doesn't fly anymore.

Today, we all need to be proactive about our health and work at being our own advocates.  Fortunately, we are living in times when so much more information and research is at our disposal.  Doctors who are incapable of two-way conversations with patients, are unable to have intelligent conversations about alternate thinking or research and who fail to treat their patients (i.e., customers!) with respect are not deserving to be our partner when it comes to our health care.  There are doctors out there still who are worthy of our respect.  Those are the docs I want on my team.

Ego plays such a large part still in how U.S. doctors dole out their treatment.  Many doctors have not yet gotten on board with the concept that healthcare is a two-way journey between doctor and patient.

At one point in my journey, I sought out a therapist, even though the process was a difficult one for me.  During the course of treatment and after a particularly difficult episode in my life, I questioned the therapist's diagnosis and treatment approach.  His response was to tell me to "just go out and get laid".  (Yup, really).  I realized his ego was far bigger than his desire to help his patient.  Needless to say, I communicated my feelings about his response and made a quick exit.

I certainly will pray that your new doctor will guide you to a better path for your health issues and do so with the respect and empathy you deserve.

Please take special care of yourself.

[teartracks]

In your next career, teartracks, if you’re not doing it already, you could be a literature professor!

Well sputter, sputter, putt, putt, that's an amusing thought 

tt

[BonesMS]

Dr. Grossman:

I was so sorry to read of your health problems.  I hope that you have found a new doctor who can become your partner in this journey you are on. 

The experience you described is so troubling and sad.  I am very glad, however, that you did not remain "voiceless in the doctor's office".  Unfortunately, I believe the experience you had is not all that uncommon.  There is no excuse for it, nonetheless.  Some doctors still have the belief system that their opinion or diagnosis should not be questioned as they are the sole "authority" on all matters. That just simply doesn't fly anymore.

Today, we all need to be proactive about our health and work at being our own advocates.  Fortunately, we are living in times when so much more information and research is at our disposal.  Doctors who are incapable of two-way conversations with patients, are unable to have intelligent conversations about alternate thinking or research and who fail to treat their patients (i.e., customers!) with respect are not deserving to be our partner when it comes to our health care.  There are doctors out there still who are worthy of our respect.  Those are the docs I want on my team.

Ego plays such a large part still in how U.S. doctors dole out their treatment.  Many doctors have not yet gotten on board with the concept that healthcare is a two-way journey between doctor and patient.

At one point in my journey, I sought out a therapist, even though the process was a difficult one for me.  During the course of treatment and after a particularly difficult episode in my life, I questioned the therapist's diagnosis and treatment approach.  His response was to tell me to "just go out and get laid".  (Yup, really).  I realized his ego was far bigger than his desire to help his patient.  Needless to say, I communicated my feelings about his response and made a quick exit.

I certainly will pray that your new doctor will guide you to a better path for your health issues and do so with the respect and empathy you deserve.

Please take special care of yourself.

Geez, Sunblue!

That "therapist" sounds just like the clown I had to fire!  He was also hell-bent on destroying my sobriety because he announced he "could control my addiction" and attempted to forbid me to go to AA meetings because it made him jealous!  What a JERK!!!!

[Dr. Richard Grossman]

Dr. Grossman:

I was so sorry to read of your health problems.  I hope that you have found a new doctor who can become your partner in this journey you are on. 

The experience you described is so troubling and sad.  I am very glad, however, that you did not remain "voiceless in the doctor's office".  Unfortunately, I believe the experience you had is not all that uncommon.  There is no excuse for it, nonetheless.  Some doctors still have the belief system that their opinion or diagnosis should not be questioned as they are the sole "authority" on all matters. That just simply doesn't fly anymore.

Today, we all need to be proactive about our health and work at being our own advocates.  Fortunately, we are living in times when so much more information and research is at our disposal.  Doctors who are incapable of two-way conversations with patients, are unable to have intelligent conversations about alternate thinking or research and who fail to treat their patients (i.e., customers!) with respect are not deserving to be our partner when it comes to our health care.  There are doctors out there still who are worthy of our respect.  Those are the docs I want on my team.

Ego plays such a large part still in how U.S. doctors dole out their treatment.  Many doctors have not yet gotten on board with the concept that healthcare is a two-way journey between doctor and patient.

At one point in my journey, I sought out a therapist, even though the process was a difficult one for me.  During the course of treatment and after a particularly difficult episode in my life, I questioned the therapist's diagnosis and treatment approach.  His response was to tell me to "just go out and get laid".  (Yup, really).  I realized his ego was far bigger than his desire to help his patient.  Needless to say, I communicated my feelings about his response and made a quick exit.

I certainly will pray that your new doctor will guide you to a better path for your health issues and do so with the respect and empathy you deserve.

Please take special care of yourself.

Hi sunblue,

What a terrific post!  I second all you say!

Your dreadful experience with the therapist somehow reminded me of an experience I had with my first therapist when I was in my 20’s (I know I’ve told this story in the past, so please forgive…).  My first session after I got married, I was excited to bring in photos from the wedding.  My therapist went through them without saying a word, as I eagerly looked on waiting for a response.  When he was finished, he handed the photos back, paused for a second then said:  “That was a bosomy wedding.”  During the session he said nothing else about the wedding, nor did he ask me what it was like for me.

Arrogance and narcissism.

I’m glad you fired him, sunblue!

Thank you for your kind wishes…

Richard

[Dr. Richard Grossman]

Doc G:

The NTP we saw didn't have all the answers, but she was able to look at inflammation, causes, parasites, chemical toxins, environmental toxins, food allergies, food sensitivities, foods our bodies require more of, foods to limit, not eating anything every day, identify what systems in the body struggling most, teach us to deal with them, one by one,  till whole body balance is restored, and the body is handling everything on it's own.

It's true that she extinguished gluten, sugar and dairy from day one for all three of us.  I mean, zero fruit.... no sugar at all.  Some people can add things back in, once they know what they're sensitive to.

I was eating 14oz of lean, organic protein 3X a day.   The results were amazing for me and one of my children... the one with whole body inflammation, insulin issues, etc.  The other child didn't really have any responses to the change in diet, and dx's, other than her teeth grinding stopped.  Just know why she was grinding was worth her visits, even though she didn't have the inflammation/food sensitivities the older child has. 

Food choices aren't the only issue addressed, Doc.  It's a small integral part. 

I say, check into it if you can find someone in your area. 

Desperate times sometimes call for desperate measures; )

Lighter

Hi lighter,

When I googled nutritional response testing, I realized that I did see a practitioner a number of years ago.  (I never learned what the process was called.) It was an interesting practice because they not only treated humans, but dogs/animals as well.  My wife’s eye doctor had recommended the practice because it had helped members (child and dog?) of his family even though the scientific evidence was lacking.  When I had described my symptoms and my muscle/nerve testing was over, the therapist did not prescribe any nutritional changes.  Instead, she said she was going to treat me with (for lack of a better word) a “clicker” that would stimulate particular nerves and make me feel better.  She gave me the first treatment, and I didn’t feel any different, nor did I have any confidence that further treatment of this kind would help (I know, I’m a damn scientist!), so I didn’t go back.

But perhaps the dietary side would help.  I’m so glad you and both of your kids were helped.  Maybe someday I’ll give the nutritional side another try…

Thanks again for the suggestion,

Richard

[Dr. Richard Grossman]

Hi Bones,

"That "therapist" sounds just like the clown I had to fire!  He was also hell-bent on destroying my sobriety because he announced he "could control my addiction" and attempted to forbid me to go to AA meetings because it made him jealous!  What a JERK!!!!"

One can find these destructive therapists everywhere!  Glad you fired him!

Richard

[Hopalong]

Alas, there are jerks in every field, including medicine.
And egos.

I think there are big flaws in medical education, too.
Strong personalities may be attracted to or corrupted by the way the system sets up a hierarchy, at the top of which is the doctor-god. There might be some only mildly arrogant, yet highly promising, medical students who are infected/affected by this system to the point that their burgeoning narcissism is fed and fed and fed...

Others may be humbled by the human parade before them, and become true healers.

I think it's nearly impossible to get through an adult life that includes the need for healers without running into some of the rotten ones.

But the system doesn't help to bring out the best in many doctors. It literally warps some of them, I believe.

There should be every bit as much training on empathy and communication skills as there is on anatomy and disease states. But it just doesn't happen enough. Forever, empathy was left to "the women" (the nurses)...as the god-factory ground on.

I have to say though that if I take the long view and look back...more doctors have been competent and kind to me than have been jerks.

Hops