Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Dr. Richard Grossman on May 29, 2015, 11:58:13 AM
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Hi everybody,
Therapy by text message was bound to appear sooner or later (after all, lacking business here, the psychoanalysis community has exported on-the-virtual-couch therapy to China via Skype):
http://www.talkspace.com
And here’s an article about it:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/disrupting-psychology--does--25-week--text--therapy-with-an-online-shrink-work-133715375.html
I’m not sure whether to be :roll:, :?, or :lol:
Richard
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Tell you what.
How about you practice on ME and then see how it feels?
I VOLUNTEER!
:P
Hops
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Tell you what.
How about you practice on ME and then see how it feels?
:P
Hops
ok Hops whats goin on? how are u fealing today? ;)
R.
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Gosh, it wouldn't have suited me! I got so much out of carving out a space for myself once a week for an hour and having actual face to face contact with another human being. Both the therapists I saw were female which was really good for me given all my 'mother' issues as they gave me much stronger, more positive role models than the one I had grown up with. One in particular, who was the same age as my mum, used to walk me to the door at the end of the session and give me a little pat on the shoulder as I left. It was a really motherly thing to do and I appreciated it so much. They also both used to make sure I was comfortable during the session - make sure I was sitting comfortably, get me a glass of water, hand me tissues if I needed them. Those little comforting gestures made as much difference as the talking did, I think.
So therapy by text - I suppose it would be better than no therapy if that was the option - in the same way that junk food is better than no food at all? And I guess as the world changes more and more people have relationships with their machines than they do with other people and this might be the way that more and more people go. I'd worry that it's potentially dangerous? If you can't see how someone is reacting physically your words might be too strong for them? That's quite a difficult balance to get right in therapy. Mmmm. Not for me. I'm interested in seeing how this text speak conversation between Hops and Dr G progresses, though ;)
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Oh. You mean we gotta do it HERE?
:oops:
You mean Group Text Therapy?
Hops
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LOL! OK then. U can be the therapist and I’ll be the patient. I always luv it when my patients say they are now emotionally healthier than I, so now it’s time to switch roles.
+ I know u’d make a great therapist, Hops!
R.
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Hmmm. Oh okay. If I can't get therapy texting how about "T Doc on Demand" via smartphone app of course!! Or maybe FaceTime!! 😊
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I don't know......
I think I would have gotten as much out of texting, maybe more, with a T I really liked and trusted.
It wouldn't have worked with a stranger, IMO, and in one way it would have improved the sessions where I saw T's look stricken bc they felt helpless, unable to provide answers, and frightened for me, which left me feeling worse. Text would have removed that aspect. Also, I could have revisited the session as needed.
How do you feel about skype and phone sessions, Doc?
Lighter
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Hi lighter,
I do phone/Skype sessions with long-term patients who have moved out of town. They know me as a person and can imagine sitting in the office with me both during sessions and between sessions. My presence is already in their brain wiring, as is theirs in mine. I have also had sessions with my patients while either they and/or I were on vacation. I have never begun therapy with anyone via phone/Skype—although I did, long ago, say to one or two people: “If you want to come to see me in Brookline for a few consecutive one-a-day sessions, we can consider whether phone therapy would work.”
As I’ve said many times, the most important factor in choosing a therapist is who the therapist is as a human being. Personally, I would rather work with a therapist via phone or Skype if they were the “right kind” of human being, than one, in person, who wasn’t. And sadly, for me as a patient, the right kind of human being was impossible to find in the Boston area—and working/teaching at Massachusetts General Hospital/Harvard Medical School and elsewhere, I met plenty! So, to sum it up, yes, phone/Skype would be good enough if the “right kind” of human being were on the other end of the “line.”
Richard
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Hi tt,
Welcome back! I’m so sorry to hear about your health issues!
Unfortunately, I don’t understand your question, perhaps because I wasn’t specific enough. If a person is searching for another special human being with important qualities—intelligence (emotional and otherwise), empathy, caring, openness, authenticity, freedom from dogma, etc., etc., in order to make them feel less alone in the world, who is going to persecute her/him for political incorrectness? Please say more so I can understand…
But, most importantly, take care, and if there’s any way the Board can help with the health issues by lending an ear…(You’ve certainly heard about my health issues and helped me!)
Richard
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Hi tt,
Forgive me for butting in, but in 2015 how on Earth could you determine the "right kind" of person without being persecuted for political incorrectness?
Actually, my big concern about your post was that, knowing you for so many years, it didn’t seem like your “voice.” The particular words from “butting in” on to the end of that sentence were not ones that I could imagine you writing.
There is no question in my mind that there are different “kinds” of people. For example, people with a Narcissistic Personality Disorder (or any other personality disorder) qualify, IMO, as a "kind", because the personality disorder affects so much of their life and so many of their relationships. But, in my experience there are wonderful “kinds” as well—a person who fits the qualities I write of above would be one such kind. Anyone want to create a DSM of wonderful "kinds" of people?!!!
I had never thought about having a Forrest Gump or Chauncy Gardner type for a therapist. Maybe ignorance can not only be bliss, but goodness/unselfishness, too! (Well, actually, I would need the intelligence [emotional and otherwise] dimension in a therapist as well, so unfortunately neither Forrest nor Chauncy would work. I’ll keep looking...)
Richard
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Hi teartracks:
Good to see you back. Are you feeling better now?
Lighter
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"I haven't figured out why my post seemed so unlike me. If memory serves me right, it is pretty common for members to apologize for butting in, changing the subject on threads etc. Maybe I never did any of that? I don't know. I would be interested to learn why what and how I said it seemed so out of place for me. You wouldn't be thinking that I've turned itelligent (emotional and otherwise), empathetic, caring, open, authentic, free from dogma, etc., etc.,. Aw, go on surprise me! LOL"
Hi tt,
As I said, my big concern about your post was that, knowing you for so many years, it didn’t seem like your “voice.” The particular words from “butt in” on to the end of that sentence were not ones that I could imagine you writing. Your writing and word choice have always been elegant, your sentences beautifully phrased—almost like pieces of art! Of course I know you’re intelligent! That's why I worried...
"There is no question in my mind that there are different “kinds” of people. I believe that's normal for humanity. I believe they should have the freedom to seek out one another. However, it seems clear to me that the current polilitical flotsom largely made up of power types of many varities, who would and in many cases are delighting in persecuting those who wish to practice the five freedoms guaranteed in the Constitution. In the case of this conversation it's about freedom #2. It appears that you're practicing it unabashed and with gusto! Bravo! It was pointed out to me that what we've discussed would qualify as a thought crime as outlined in 1984 by Orwell and which was common in the 20th century under various dictators. I'm sure there were others in other centuries where it was the same. It is true, there is nothing new under the sun."
Thanks, tt! I've always practiced freedom of speech "unabashed and with gusto." This web site is but one example. My views have gotten me into a lot of trouble my whole life, but I wouldn't/couldn't have lived life any other way--and my beliefs/speech/thoughts/writing have led to extraordinary attachments to many dear people of many different "kinds!" For me, as I've said, these attachments are most important of all.
But please let us know, as lighter writes above: How are you feeling?
Richard
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teartracks:
I like the idea of hay bale farming very much. Once the garden finishes I can flip them over, throw quilts on them, and use them for seating around the fire pit; )
hhaw
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I thought that we were already getting therapy on this site. We help each other and find our voices. We validate and support each other and occasionally call each other on our bullshit. This is all good therapy.
Seems like a very slippery slope to join the information highway and water down therapy by texting. It is a sad fact of life that we are all so detached that we must settle for texting. Its better than nothing though. Considering that at least 80 percent of communication is body language it seems a very limited way of communicating.
If you can't find a good therapist in Boston, then it says a lot about the state of affairs in teaching and grooming therapists. If we start churning out texting therapists the consequences are too serious to think about.
For example: Hello I feeling awful
Therapist: How can I help?
Person: I don't know. Maybe you could suggest a bridge?
Therapist: I hear you are very depressed and I would like to hear your story. I care how you feel.
Person: Oh here come the cat , I better feed her and take out the garbage.
See what I mean?
It always makes me freeze when Dr Phil says I have an app for counseling. It strikes me as self serving and crass. Those are strong words I know and yet, if it is a last resort then it is better than a crisis line with volunteers. I mean calling a professional.
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Hi sea storm,
Thanks for your comment. I very much appreciated and agreed with your thoughts. You might enjoy my latest 10-minute play/comedy, “Dr. Frank, Therapy App” which addresses these very issues. Your lines (above) spoken between the text-messaging therapist and patient could well have been included!
https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/559751
Richard
P.S. BTW, I mailed the play to my 90-year-old father who was both the head of a research engineering lab and a psychoanalyst. A perfect reader, IMO, given the particular themes! He liked it “very much” and wanted to pass it along to other family members ;-)
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Thanks, tt! I'm glad you enjoyed it. As I've said before, you write beautifully and thoughtfully. Have you ever taken any creative writing classes? Perhaps the creative part is yet to be uncovered...
Richard
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I read your play and found it very intelligent and creative. I am not good at reading plays, seems I am lost without body language. Even though it would contribute to the trend to make people more generic and robotic, I think that a lot of people would really go for the counseling app. I guess that is why Dr. Phil did it. To me it is Orwellian creepy.
The father of the computer is an interesting guy who destroys his own best creation out of envy and competitiveness. Especially difficult to understand when the creator is a superbrain. There are some large issues there. Can"t help but wonder about your father the engineer and psychoanalyst. I may be completely out of line but........
He is going to send it to members of the family....... Maybe it is all sweetness and light, hope so. He just might take it all personally.
I hope we are not conditoning people to completely avoid contact and use technology as a soother.
Sea
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Sorry.
I don't think I really understand the play. It made me think and struggle to understand it. I probably leaped to conclusions that were inappropriate. It is brave of you to share your play and thank you.
Sea
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Hi Sea,
No, you got it just right! For me, the play addresses, in part, the issue of what is helpful in therapy, and why after all my psychoanalytic (and other) training (Harvard Medical/ Mass General Hospital post doc, etc.) in the end I rejected it viewing it more as religion than science. Of course, as a naïve 23 year old, I expected to find the brightest people in the world at Mass General, and instead I found myself on a self-built lifeboat floating in a sea of narcissism and politics. But I did what Timothy, the protagonist in my play does: I fired Mass General, learned from the “bad” things and shaped my career, in part, around the horrors I found there.
Concerning my father, until the past decade he had little interest in my career. (My mother wanted me to be a classics professor, so she never had any interest either.) Neither went to any of my graduations my entire life. I adapted to that very early—and I was always extremely independent (genetics from my mother—which I have passed on, for better and for worse, to my daughter). So, their lack of interest never bothered me—I have always been my own best and worst judge. Anyway, during the past decade, my father not only apologized to me for his lack of interest, but has told me he is very impressed/proud of what I have done in life, and certainly sees it as very unusual. (Of course, when you are paying college tuition when you are in your 20’s—and it’s not for yourself, but for your kids, I suppose that is unusual!) So, that’s a long (and partial) explanation as to why my father enjoyed the play and why he wanted others to read it.
Thanks so much for the read and all the thought that went into it,
Richard
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Thanks for your sincere and thoughtful reply. Intelligence doesn't seem to mean better parenting and more loving parents, just more complicated and ultimately confusing.
Your description of life in the higher spheres of medicine in a big bureaucracy are very familiar to me. Although i worked with highly intelligent specialists in their fields,it was the same knuckles dragging on the floor scramble for power. Primitive really and very sad state of affairs. I hope you weren't mauled too badly. i was. I had little idea about this kind of nimble tennis for big brains. Subtle and mean. Sooooooo counterproductiive.
The fact that you wrote a play is like a lovely trumpet singing through the dark night playing the high notes like light. Who cares if your dad approves. It is a good thing and good for you.
It is such a good thing that you are creating after being in the brain factory for so long.
I don't know how you managed to become an artist with the parents you had. Says something good about the human spirit. Not to slag your parents but sound like they are a bit stiff and starchy.
I watched a great lecture on Japanese art live from Harvard. I was so surprised when the brilliant, funny, caring professor asked the kids a question, they had nothing to say. Oh yes, they wanted to know about marks and inane stuff. Same as my university. They wanted to get an A. and were so preoccupied with that above all else.
Glad you got out of the major rat race. God knows, life is not about winning and there is no prize.
Kind Regards
SEa
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Doc G.
I am personally verrrrrrrrrrrrry pissed at both your parents for never attending any of your graduations.
I will work on forgiving them.
Pfffft.
And now gonna go read this play.
Hops
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A side note. While I was browsing the internet yesterday an advert kept on coming up on my computer for a local health organization that is offering doctor appointments via skype.
Not sure how they do this, they can't really inspect the person, can't look in their throat or ears etc. I guess there must have been a lot of testing out the concept before they decided to actually do it. I just don't know how a doc can diagnose a person remotely I mean what if there is some underlying more complicated problem that doesn't get diagnosed quickly just because the patient was never really in a clinic.
Anywho. I guess it must work on some level.
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Hi Hops,
Thanks. Certainly, by the time I reached high school, I had long ago accommodated my parents’ inattention. As I have written here before, there were characteristics I had from birth that garnered a lot of adult attention growing up. That attention made up for much of what I did not get from my parents. From the sixth grade on, some of my teachers were friends outside of the classroom. It is no wonder to me that I married one of my graduate school professors, some 10 years my senior. The age difference seemed perfectly normal to me.
My parents both led difficult lives each in their own way, and my mother did what she felt was right and useful in bringing us up—while at the same time feeling secretly angry from being deprived of a life in the arts. They certainly didn’t abandon us, and they did the best they could.
So…when I reached the end of senior year, I skipped graduation altogether—much to the shock of my guidance counselor and others (they took it as an insult—I was going to be presented an award for being editor of the newspaper) and went backpacking in Italy (Florence and Venice), Greece (the Peloponnese), and Israel (working on a kibbutz for a month) with my brother and one of his friends. We toured many of the ancient Greek ruins which I loved (hence the 10-minute play everyone except philosophy majors hated, “The Last Resort”), and on the kibbutz, going out to the fields on the Jordan River every morning to move water pipes and pick up spent rocket parts (at 3AM to avoid the heat)--I learned one Hebrew word: shilshu (or something like that). English translation: diarrhea.
My mother hated staged ceremonies and holidays—the only time I called home on Mother’s Day was freshman year. My dorm mates insisted, so we gathered around, and I picked up the phone and dialed. My mother answered, I said “Happy Mother’s Day!”, and my mother replied “I think I’m going to vomit.” Everyone burst out laughing—of course, no one understood or could believe what they heard—and I loved it! What a great life story!
So, that’s the long, long way of saying I hope you’ll forgive my parents—and also the ways I am like especially, my mother. Perhaps you should ask Micaela, my daughter, about those...
Richard