Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Ales2 on June 04, 2018, 12:35:45 PM
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Frustrating morning yesterday. A very heated conversation with my NM.
I left feeling a little defeated, terribly misunderstood and definitely unheard, but after a conversation with my higher self and some Malibu sun and sand, my self respect had returned and I was feeling better. I was in fact, again, overcompensating, trying to explain something about myself to someone who does not care to listen.
I’m a much stronger person now and can choose to be empowered or disempowered by the situation. The hurt is gone.
Here is more of less the short hand of the conversation:
1. The usual problems with listening and understanding.
2. She insults me about being between jobs again but can’t remember the titles of my last three jobs and which ones were paid positions and which were for credit only positions.
3. She discovered via Google that I have posted on some NM sites (mostly on facebook) and thinks she is an N.
4. When asked how she felt about the posts, she refused to answer. I asked are you angry? Hurt? Offended? No response. She wants to talk to “someone” to help her answer that. Emotional dishonesty.
5. She then mentioned the people who lose their jobs over posting on the internet, so I ask, are you telling me that I will lose my job? Or this is why I am between jobs?” Her response “Oh, I never said that". I respond with, "No you implied it, what do you really mean?" No response from her.
6. She insults me with “Which positions have you had in the last 8 years” not remembering what I’ve just completed.
7. When asked how she remembers things, seeing, hearing, writing, experiencing, she had not response to that.
8. Doesn’t know my work or projects because she does not know what a website is or a lifestyle marketing show or a business plan.
9. Hung up on me.
10. I yelled because I was not heard. I’ve never really yelled at anyone else in my life.
11. Wants peace but refuses to resolve actual problems. Peace is a mirage.
12. Claims to love me and want the best for me, so I told her “love is listening” and she can’t seem to do that. Also, has no idea what is actually best for me.
So, here we are, another argument.
To maintain my self respect, I cannot let her into my world in any way.
I need a really fast red convertible Jaguar, an Savvanah cat named Shera, a Calvin Klein wardrobe, lots of gold and diamond jewelry, extensive international travel, a solid producing job, a supportive husband and an overflowing bank account....that would help!
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Rather than being your thoughts and emotions, be the awareness behind them.
--Eckhart Tolle
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There's another option - you may not find it feasible.
Make it impossible for her to ding your self-respect. Not saying interactions still won't frustrate you, make you crazy... but that is HER PROBLEM to deal with, not yours. You know how far you've come, and YOU get to make the measurements about what "successful" means. Not her.
Opinions. Everyone's got one. Doesn't make them "right" -- even if that's what they believe.
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sKePTiKal --
There's another option - you may not find it feasible. ~Its feasible and I have done it in the past. The mistake I made was again, overcompensating, giving her a chance when I know it will only end the same way. I opened up when I know I shouldn't have.
Make it impossible for her to ding your self-respect. Not saying interactions still won't frustrate you, make you crazy... but that is HER PROBLEM to deal with, not yours. You know how far you've come, and YOU get to make the measurements about what "successful" means. Not her. ~ Yes, yes, yes
Opinions. Everyone's got one. Doesn't make them "right" -- even if that's what they believe. ~ yes, yes and more yes!
My mistake is that I sometimes forget the lesson of don't talk to the deaf and don't overcompensate. They want to information, they have to ask. If they don't ask, you don't tell. Its the way of keeping the boundary.
Thanks for your post, you are right on.
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No matter how many years you've been practicing, some days you just fall for the bait. It happens to the best of us.
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I spent half my life as a fish, Ales.
Bait hooks us in our belief that we can make personality reality change....
and it's painful. Especially when it's a mother we wish could comfort us.
AND, everybody has thrashing on the hook incidents.
Hops
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Thanks for all the support!
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And, so the scorned NM took quite a huge step.
This conversation, three weeks ago or so, has now resulted in me getting a phone call from a psychotherapist. She always says she needs to see "somebody" but never explains what or who that "somebody" is - my brother, a lawyer, a therapist, clergy (she doesn't go to church, doesn't believe in religion), a family friend? So, today that "somebody" called. I tried to look him up online, but not sure which therapist he is just yet.
So, I'm guessing I will be seeing some therapist soon.
My questions are:
Do I tell him at the outset that I think my Mother is an N?
Or do I just describe the events and details and let him tell me what that is?
Do I tell him that I don't have any interest in resolving the conflict with my Mother because she is an N and I've accepted that they don't change?
Do I explain that my only goal is to be independent from her so that I no longer need her in my life at all?
Ahhhh.... another little fork in the road taking me farther away from what I've planned that I did not need!
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A phone call from a T is an invitation or request to do family therapy with your mother, right?
An invitation or request is not a command that you have to obey. It's up to you to decide whether you feel it might benefit you or ease the tension.
You are [edit, oops, sorry! not]an adult woman who can choose what you feel will be constructive or relieving going forward.
I think perhaps a lot of this is complicated by your financial entwining, or some other form of money dependence/control issue, with your mother. And likewise, I understand that it may just not be possible in Hollywood for you to make it without some support.
It's a very tough dilemma and I feel for you, Ales.
Courage for this decision, whichever way you decide to go--
Hops
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Hi Hops,
Yes, the phone call was for me to meet with him in advance. It appears that she wants validation from a 3rd party to cut me out of her life. I participated because I already said I would.
I came off sounding depressed, dysfunctional and moderately hopeless. I told him that if my employment was consistent, I would not have anything to do with her. He told me its probably best not to tell her that. He is not motivated for us to be in contact or resolve our differences, so in all likelihood, we will have 3 sessions and end our relationship.
I'm happy about it actually. She picked him and I'm fine with it if it comes to that. No reason to carry on this charade anymore.
Good! Maybe this year I will finally be free!
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Worst part of therapy is there no way to appear anything less than dysfunctional or feel like I can maintain any self respect in the session. He asks, you answer and come off sounding like a loser. There is no other way about it.
Its what I hated with my last T and never got over it. Oh well. I feel fine when I am by myself and when I interact with other people. Who cares what therapy feels like? Its uncomfortable and unlike the gym, there is no upside to the discomfort.
Oh well. Nobody cares about that.
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Worst part of therapy is there no way to appear anything less than dysfunctional or feel like I can maintain any self respect in the session. He asks, you answer and come off sounding like a loser. There is no other way about it.
Its what I hated with my last T and never got over it. Oh well. I feel fine when I am by myself and when I interact with other people. Who cares what therapy feels like? Its uncomfortable and unlike the gym, there is no upside to the discomfort.
Oh well. Nobody cares about that.
Oh, Ales, could it be the wrong kind of therapy or therapist? Therapy was (and most of the time still would be!) the only place where I felt heard, validated, normal! It was my sanctuary from a world where I felt like everyone and everything kept telling me I was wrong. Therapy was the place where I felt right. I know that we're all different but reading your post made me feel sad and I wondered if it might be the kind of therapy or the individual? I think it would be nice for you to have a place where you feel heard :) xx
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Hi Two ---
Thanks for your post, I appreciate it very much.
After much consideration and journaling, its possible that I came into the session with an agenda of my own, which is validation that my Mother really is awful and contributed to my problems long term. He met her the day before, and I'm sure she played the nice old lady routine (she is 81 now and I just turned 50) of "I'm just worried, she doesn't have a stable career". That is what the T told me. Its possible the next sessions will be more about solving those issues rather than wallowing in them.
The first reality is that I do have a career, one that she doesn't like or understand (TV Production) and I do have very marketable skills, but fall short in the workplace largely due to problems I have with abilities to demonstrate my accomplishments, ask for what I can do and I tend to overcompensate by cooperating with others. It has limited my growth in the last couple of years.
The second reality is that she has done everything to encourage me to accept lesser employment (including temping, organizing, sell my car and get a job at starbucks, part time TV work - which does not exist) and discourage me from starting my own company or owning a home. That is recent stuff, over the last 5 years, but its the same story of discouragement and pattern through junior high, high school and college. When I got out on my own, I did have a 20 year career, complete with promotions and hobbies such as marathon running and volunteering on the Board of my professional organization.
Point is, my current place is not as fluid as it once was and thus she feels my pursuits need to be abandoned, because any trouble I am having is proof that I am not cut out for it. Its simply not the case.
Getting back to the therapist, he will either see that underneath my experience, there is also someone who was hurt and wounded by her Nist BS and it has negatively impacted my career and relationships. That will probably be addressed in our next session where NMom has to be there. Whatever happens, I am not giving up my self respect to her or the therapist and as stubborn as it may sound, I'm sticking with my career choice. Anywhere I go, the wounds and communication issues will follow me, so a change of career is not going to yield another result or more success. I could, however, find the right place for my wounds and my experience.
I feel better after I journaled and made 3x5 notecards for the next session. I'm a little more optimistic. I'll make sure the T understands my POV next time and see if that helps and results in any progress. Maybe it will, maybe it won't.
And, the last word is this. THANK YOU DR. RICHARD GROSSMAN. This forum and the books and other experts I've researched over the 9 years, (yes, 9 years!) have ended this chapter for me. I'm done with most of these issues, and I have accepted there are parts of me that might never change, and I'm OK with that. Key is to find people who love and accept me as I am. Its their loss if they don't. I thank the board and the friends I have made here for that. THANK YOU!
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Hi Ales2,
Thank you so much for contributing to this wonderful community. People like you have made it a very special place--and a refuge for many who have suffered and haven't found help elsewhere--for all these years!
Richard
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So.... I am heartbroken.
I went to the session with the T and he turns out to be a terrific, caring, focused, solution oriented therapist. He gave us both equal time and had a goal for the session and a homework assignment (i.e talk to each other more often about subjects other than the current conflict). Somehow something wonderful clicked with him for me. He seemed genuinely interested in the predicament.
Mom brought up the 30 year old who was evicted from his parents home and elder abuse. She seemed to imply we had that problem because she tried to get free counseling for this problem, but she can't get the counseling unless she files charges against me. She won't, because its not EA but she did tell him she feels taken advantage of. It was acknowledged that because she doesn't understand what I do, I can't confide in her but she takes that as me keeping secrets from her. Lots of issues, I wont bore you with......
She then came over to my place for a short visit ( I adopted a new kitty) but sadly, she did not like him and wants to see a lawyer. Its too far for her to drive, its expensive, yada, yada. So disappointed if she doesn't stick to the 3 sessions he asked for since she picked him and made the effort. My sense is that he did not validate her position enough which is what she wanted him to do. I thought he was giving us both a fair hearing.
She then asked about me about Dr. Karyl McBride ( I posted on her FB page and it came up in a google search) ...and I ignored the question. Then she left.
I've been in tears on and off for the last couple of hours. Its disappointment and relief all at the same time. Trying to process it all.
(PS - I know that MFTs are mandated reporters.)
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I'm sorry you're struggling, Ales.
I'm sorry your mother sounds like she won't go back to this T, but YOU liked this T. You might keep the next appointment, just for yourself, even if your mother doesn't go, and she might show.
About your sense the T isn't validating your mother's position, and that's why she won't likely go back.... I think you're right about that.
I'm not surprised. Are you?
Perhaps this T is a good person to continue seeing? He's seen both you and your mother. He seems fair, and competent. You clicked with him.
((Ales)) Go ahead and cry. It's OK.
Lighter
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Thank you so much Lighter for your comments and kindness.
The struggle is real, but sadly, after I took this last job, I felt so much better about the direction my life was going and now this setback. Back to CrazyTown!
No, I'm not surprised. She wanted him to berate me and solve it in one session. That is not how therapy works. I can sense what he was doing. He wanted us to work on communication and empathy techniques to get the relationship on track to solve the bigger problems. I was not at war with her lately, she brought it back after she read comments I posted on the internet, hence the question about my FB post.
I would love to continue seeing him and hope she follows through. Without her involvement though, I'd have to ask him what he would suggest to overcome these problems on my own.
As for crying, oddly, it felt really good.
Have a wonderful holiday everyone!
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One little side note.
In our first meeting I mentioned the movie I Tonya, and I asked him "What kind of mother is that? The mother who goes out of her way to make a financial sacrifice for Tonya to take skating lessons, then berates and belittles her for not being as good as the other girls?" Similar to what my Mother did, put me in private school and then tell me I was not as smart or as pretty as the other girls? Who does that? Why put me there?
With this new T, I wanted to describe more about what she does specifically and how it feels to me rather than label her an N. I wanted to start with the therapist with a clean slate and not make assumptions from other Ts. I wanted to see if he would mention it or come to that conclusion on his own.
Meanwhile:
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So, on Tuesday, after the session with my Mom, here is the note I emailed the therapist.
Thank you again for yesterday. I found it productive and calming! I know your time is valuable so I want to keep this brief and to the point. Here are some thoughts and backstory that might be helpful for future sessions/calls.
First, I think she will discontinue therapy before 3 sessions, not because of the drive or the expense (although she is incredibly frugal), but because she wants a quick fix, fears confrontations and generally avoids doing the work.
I think she was hoping you would validate her claims of being taken advantage of and feeling manipulated. She likes/needs/craves validation and currently has no one that supports her frustrations about her relationship with me. She probably wanted you to confront me and require me to be responsible and stay employed. If she knows you will “sort this out” and “get to the bottom of it”, and “not let delinquent adult children manipulate their parents” and that you require responsibility and accountability from me, she would feel respected/validated and it would help enormously in future sessions/calls.
Since she needs validation, you might also mention her good qualities.
Mom was an excellent cook, my favorites are her pumpkin bread, plum tarte, chicken in wine sauce and spinach lasagna.
She has excellent taste in classical music, art, European culture and interior design. She was a talented piano player.
She traveled extensively when she was young and came to America from Germany in the early 1960s to visit her sister (who arrived in LA around 1955-56) and eventually met and married my Dad at a Church in Hollywood. (I want to say here that Dad was an excellent father, and he was, but in the context of the current conflict, that seems like an insult to her as a Mother and she is jealous of the relationship/love I had for him. Her Dad died when she was 14 and the family was broke afterwards, my Dad died when I was 32 and left Mom financially sound.)
She can be incredibly kind, generous and outgoing.
She was very glamorous in her earlier years. She dressed well and was very well liked in my school and our neighborhood. My parents had some very close friends that gave us new experiences, sailing, horseback, riding, flying, a love of Nature and Astronomy and so on.
I had private school, ballet lessons, ice skating, tennis, swimming, track, braces, acne treatments and tutors for math.
In many ways, we were incredibly fortunate and lucky.
They were very good parents, mention that, she will appreciate that.
Lastly, I confided that I felt dysfunctional and lost. Please don’t be overly concerned with that. I’m not depressed, just discouraged, I am actively searching for full time work, still functioning, capable and responsible. I know it’s imperative that I regain my independence, not be a financial burden to her and have no plans for any future financial entanglements with her. I was fully independent and successful before and I will succeed again from my own efforts.
I want to continue with you and can do anyday/anytime/any location until my work situation changes. She probably prefers Afternoons, because her joints are stiff in the morning from Rheumatoid Arthritis and getting out of the house early is difficult. If you decide to do phone calls with her, she has old landline phones and sometimes the batteries run out mid-call, sometimes it’s an excuse to terminate calls when she doesn’t like what she hears.
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Let me translate that note...and tell me if you see the same thing. It occurred to me just this morning.
1. She will terminate therapy because of issues with confrontation and personal responsibility.
2. Validate her point of view
3. Hold me accountable and responsible
4. Praise her as a wonderful mother
5. But, don't worry about me!
6. I will be there willing to participate
7. She will find excuses to not participate.
This is the letter of DONM who will overcompensate, validate her mother, cooperate and never seek help for her own problems.
Well, I feel like an idiot, but if he is half the therapist, I think he is, this problem will be quite obvious to him. :(
And, as it turns out, she booked another appointment for Monday and then threw her back out moving something in the house and does not plan to attend the session.
More predictable nonsense!
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I'm sorry your mom canceled the appointment, Ales. Maybe you could suggest a phone appointment?
Lighter
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Let me translate that note...and tell me if you see the same thing. It occurred to me just this morning.
1. She will terminate therapy because of issues with confrontation and personal responsibility.
2. Validate her point of view
3. Hold me accountable and responsible
4. Praise her as a wonderful mother
5. But, don't worry about me!
6. I will be there willing to participate
7. She will find excuses to not participate.
This is the letter of DONM who will overcompensate, validate her mother, cooperate and never seek help for her own problems.
Well, I feel like an idiot, but if he is half the therapist, I think he is, this problem will be quite obvious to him. :(
And, as it turns out, she booked another appointment for Monday and then threw her back out moving something in the house and does not plan to attend the session.
More predictable nonsense!
Ales, is it possible for you to contact the T again with what you just wrote above and tell him you realise you need help and would it be possible for you to see him alone to work on yourself, without your mother in the picture? It seems likely to be very difficult to work on yourself when you attend therapy with your mum? But perhaps you could make better progress alone? I hope you're able to find a way forward that works for you and no-one else xx
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Well, so much for the therapist understanding me.
Basically, I am being marginalized to "do something different" instead of pursuing my current career.
So much for that....
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Well, so much for the therapist understanding me.
Basically, I am being marginalized to "do something different" instead of pursuing my current career.
So much for that....
Ales, one of the most important lessons I was taught by a therapist was not to need or try to find validation from other people but instead, to work on understanding myself and what I wanted out of life and to set my own benchmark of 'success'. It has been a very important - I'd go so far as to say life changing - piece of advice for me and is something I still work on, although I find it hard.
I don't know what the work situation is or what the problems are (perhaps you could write more on here to see if any of us can offer anything useful?) but it does seem that the people around you aren't telling you what you need to hear - maybe it's a sign to listen to yourself and not to others (or at least not to others who predict doom and gloom and can't offer anything constructive)? xx
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Ales,
I wonder if the financial entanglement with your mother is pushing things to a breaking point. Im not saying this is your situation, because it sounds as though your mother is comfortably off, but I recall when my D was into her 30s and just had bottomless need for money. It seemed impossible for her to perceive the stress I felt about it because I (or her grandmother) had continually bailed her out.
I wish there were some way for family resources, if there are some designated for you, to be released to you.
Without that independence, it might be difficult for her, or even a T, to see the wisdom of your career efforts. It's terribly painful when other don't support our dreams. I don't blame you for feeling that extremely keenly, I would too in your shoes. But perhaps the financial dependency is a major factor.
It annoys that the therapist is advising you to change career expectations rather than gently guiding you through asking yourself the same questions until you find your own answer, even if it includes some form of compromise. But if he was actually just asking it as a question, and you otherwise felt some understanding from him, perhaps it'd be worth your time not to discontinue yet?
Sometimes a dialogue that lands in our most uncomfortable places is a sign that perhaps we do need to sit with the uncomfortable questions that are posed. It does not mean you need to accept anyone's answers but your own, but if it happens repeatedly along a similar theme, it might mean that you could benefit from a fresh evaluation of your circumstances and your plan.
I'm sorry if I'm added cold water because I know how sensitive the subject is. And I wholeheartedly hope that you'll find a path back into the work you'd rather be doing. But if the way isn't clear and money access is a chronic sore, it's possible that you're walking the boulevard of broken dreams. I'd hate to see that happen or if this dream just won't pan out, that you give up on finding a new one that could also satisfy most of your creative yearnings.
No job I've ever had has fulfilled all of mine, but some have enabled me to stand on my feet and survive.
with love,
Hops
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My last job ended in March. I was an Associate Producer of the local TV show and produced 16 episodes. In April, I produced a Power Point Presentation for the web and have a business partner for that. The Course could yield as much as 5k per month for both of us with the appropriate online and direct marketing. In May, I took on a business partner for a new Tv show, with a pitch deck and business plan just like the one I recently completed. It requires Investors to produce the show.
Instead of offering encouragement, help or suggestions of where I can make these ventures successful or profitable, I am being pushed to look for Executive Assistant and Office Manager work.
This is the story of my life, no matter what I pursue, I'm consistently pushed and marginalized into lesser positions.
This is the end of the line for this therapist and my mother. Neither care or listen enough for me to speak and explain myself.
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Financial dependency is not the problem. When I was successful and independent the words I hear is:
they made a mistake
it won't last
you didn't earn it/deserve it
thats cushy considering your experience
....and so on.
Marginalization has nothing to do with financial dependence/independence. Its ignoring people's accomplishments and belittling them or undervaluing their contribution.
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I'm sorry the T didn't work out, Ales. For a second there it seemed like you found someone who understands you.
From here, I took away this....
the T doesn't understand what you do, or what it means to you. I felt he was asking you to state, and defend your position so you both understood it better. Since you were there, you have a better idea about what he meant.
Your mother likely colored his view on your career choice. Maybe he didn't understand clearly what you yourself said about it. He's likely very concerned about you, and as I said... doesn't understand well enough to make suggestions like he's making. Not being understood can be different than being judged, and marginalized?
Not sure, but I'm sorry you're so disappointed. You seemed to get on very well with that T. I can't imagine, for a moment, his message that you were overpaid, and out of your depth... as your mother suggested over the years, is what he intended you to hear.
Lighter
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And I have zero doubts, zero, about your creativity and your competence, Ales.
I have an outsider's view of Hollywood which is probably very inadequate to truly understand the market there anyway. I just read things about the vast numbers of talented people competing for jobs, but maybe it's much like the rest of the country. I really don't have enough knowledge to hold forth about it.
When my career was stalling I hit real depression, accepting the shock of "downward mobility" in my 50s was really hard. Forgive me if for projecting some of my own rough memories into your situation. You're in a unique field in a unique place.
You sound as though you know your stuff, you know where to look, and you should be cheered on rather than deflated!
CHEERING!
hugs,
Hops
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Thanks for the comments.
Yesterday, I had an angry conversation between my Mom and me, therapist present in my head on my 3 mile walk. It went like this ...
You never....blah blah blah...
What the problem? Same thing for the last 40 years...
Mom says she still does not know what that is...
I've been complaining about it for the last 40 years...
Therapist stops the conversation. Tries to redirect it...
Then I have this epiphany. I could explain it one more time to a woman who is both deaf and incapable of understanding me. Nothing would be solved. I've come to the conclusion that I have been trying to get along with a person for 50 years of my life now....and if nothing has gotten through to her by now, its too late. Ive wasted so much of my life on this relationship and its hurt me in so many ways, its just not meant to be. No therapist if going to fix this.
I feel liberated. Nothing I do with her will ever matter. The only thing I need to now is move my life forward. And, I don't think there is room for her in that new life.
Their actions of pushing me into an Executive Assistant job when my last job was as a Producer, clearly tells me they are not going to support my growth and financial independence.
I agreed to three sessions. I agreed to take other work and pursue other work avenues. After the next session, I will tell them we are done, I agreed to what they wanted and we can end our sessions. No need to go back. I will exit peacefully and gratefully, there is no need to be angry about it.
One note - I think the T wanted me to take another job immediately, so my mother can feel better and not worry about me and move on to her assisted living or selling her house or whatever nonsenses she's currently claiming. I think when we are more "stabilized" (his word, not mine) that he would want to work on the relationship. Not really. I told them if I was not going to continue to working in TV production there is no reason for me to stay in LA. If I am going to work outside the business, I will move to Florida. They have a better cost of living.
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Ales2:
I think you're right about your mom. She'll never hear or understand you. Not her fault. If she could, she would have. She's broken. She's doing her best, and it is what it is.
I'm glad you're moving on, and focusing on yourself. Seek joy. Don't worry what your mother thinks. This is your life. Not hers.
Lighter
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Ok, so remember when I said this:
"I need a really fast red convertible Jaguar, an Savvanah cat named Shera, a Calvin Klein wardrobe, lots of gold and diamond jewelry, extensive international travel, a solid producing job, a supportive husband and an overflowing bank account....that would help!"
Well, as it turns out, about two weeks later, I took in a foster cat on a whim from an FB post. That Foster Cat has been with me for 4 weeks now and just this weekend, I learned she is a Bengal-mix. LOL. She is quite exotic, beautiful marbled pattern, big green eyes, sleek coat (referred to as a pelt, not fur), exotic sounding meow and surprise.... wildcat aggression and hyper-energetic. She is lovely, but a handful I was not quite ready for.
Anyway, point is, careful what you wish for! LOL! Not a savannah cat, but a Bengal Mix! Ha!
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I think you're right about your mom. She'll never hear or understand you. Not her fault. If she could, she would have. She's broken. She's doing her best, and it is what it is.
I'm glad you're moving on, and focusing on yourself. Seek joy. Don't worry what your mother thinks. This is your life. Not hers.
Yep, yep and more yep.
I came to the conclusion, I'm 50, if I can't get along with her by now... it was simply not meant to be.
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Late to the conversation and have some issues typing at the moment.
My D works in special effects. She is between productions and ending a longterm relationship. She's adequately explained the nature of the entertainment business. What I hear from your description is the belief on your mom's part that you should have a consistent, weekly paycheck to be "secure". And the T is likely supporting that idea as temporary income between the work you want to do.
My D is considering that as one possibilty among many - including trying to get hired onto another crew in another part of the country - until that job ends and she can possibilty pick up work again in the city she calls home. Its what she calls "the nature of this business". Many welders face the same condition in the permanence of their positions. So its not just hollywood. Businesses close and people find themselves having to scramble. The old days of working 30 years for the same employer are mostly gone.
So I understand your struggle to hang onto what you REALLY want to do, and are good at, and how iffy it can be to someone who has a whole different definition of what a job or career is. May the fates blow good fortune your way!
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sKePTiKal -
Thank you so much for your post. You are correct in your assumption about the nature of the entertainment business and my mothers perception.
I appreciate the good wishes and send them back to you and your D. Not alot of women in SFX, so double kudos to her!
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So, I agreed to 3 sessions and today will be session #3.
I'm going in a open, cooperative and neutral mood. I got over the marginalization I felt at the last session, and the resulting epiphany that I am 50 and if we can't get along by now, it was not meant to be. I wouldn't waste my time at a job or with a recruiter that did not know my value based on my experience, I would just move on to another job or another recruiter.
Anyway, I am interested to see if he is getting the problem we have or just going for the quick fix, learn to communicate and avoid landmines. Landmines are the problem. Why keep building and tip-toeing around them, dig them up and toss them aside, everything else is a ticking time bomb. Part of me thinks he wants me to find more suitable employment for her, so we can work on the relationship, but as I said before, that is not what I want.
He seems to have a talk it out, work it out approach, but not sure she can change from controlling to cooperating.
We shall see. I will post afterwards.
Have a great day everybody!
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Good luck, Ales.
I hope the session goes well.
Hops
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Hi Hops, thank you!
The session did go well, but in an unexpected direction. His question today was "how can I help?" I was unprepared for him wanting to take such a neutral direction.
Mum mentioned how "worried" she was for the direction of my life. I told him she'd never cared before about how things are going for me.
I told him I was tired of overcompensating in a negative relationship and that is why the relationship is deteorating.
He really does seem to get it. I do think last time was a bit of test to see if I was cooperative or angry, hostile.
The only thing that concerns me now is that this poor therapist, might think he can repair a relationship I no longer care about and my mom will spend major $$$$ trying to fix something. Not unlike a couple divorcing and the husband wants her back, but she is just there to cooperate and move on. Thats me in this scenario unfortunately. Too little, too late.
Oh, well, ......
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Hi Hops, thank you!
The session did go well, but in an unexpected direction. His question today was "how can I help?" I was unprepared for him wanting to take such a neutral direction.
Mum mentioned how "worried" she was for the direction of my life. I told him she'd never cared before about how things are going for me.
I told him I was tired of overcompensating in a negative relationship and that is why the relationship is deteorating.
He really does seem to get it. I do think last time was a bit of test to see if I was cooperative or angry, hostile.
The only thing that concerns me now is that this poor therapist, might think he can repair a relationship I no longer care about and my mom will spend major $$$$ trying to fix something. Not unlike a couple divorcing and the husband wants her back, but she is just there to cooperate and move on. Thats me in this scenario unfortunately. Too little, too late.
Oh, well, ......
For what it's worth, Ales, although it's very hard, I think the real turning point for me was that realisation that nothing would change. My mum was/is as she is and once the glimmer of hope that she'd turn things around was put out, I was able to leave her where she was and concentrate on building my own life up. Maybe without such a lot going on with your mum you'll have more energy for your work projects and doing things that you really love. I'm glad that the therapist seemed to get it and was eager to listen to what you needed to say. Being heard is nice. I hope things start to take an easier path for you now.
Love Tupp xx
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Thanks Tupp.
I got dragged in, I did not really want to go to the Therapist, because in my mind it is over and has been for a very long time. Now that I am suddenly wanting to give up my TV career (she wants that) and move to across the country to another state and start a new life, she suddenly wants to interfere in that as well.
Being heard would be nice. Maybe he can tell me when I'm being unbalanced - i.e yes, thats a big problem and there are repurcussions for adults, I can see why/where you are hurting and no, you are taking this the wrong way. He seems like a balanced guy. That would be really helpful, for me to process things once more with someone who is also seeing/experiencing who she is. He also seems to be able to direct questions to her that causes her to rethink what she has said. This confuses her. Not sure this helps her in regards to me, like you, I know she will never change, but maybe he needs to see that too and then can advise me better.
I just hope he gets where I am at - which is help me to be more independent and move on from crazy N mom.
Thank for your comments and support!
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A little reading and things become more clear.
So, I'm thinking the T in this case is following Carl Rodgers. He is using and advocating for unconditional positive regard. I'm getting that from him. This is how his patients will trust him and the process enough to make progress. All the greats use this concept and then get into honest confrontation later. It works better that way.
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Ales,
I'm so excited to hear you're planning a work change and even a move away from Tinseltown!
Wow. I predict a fascinating saga ahead.
Sounds like this T is humanist, supportive and kind. That's wonderful no matter who you are. And perhaps you'll have some one-on-one time possible with him as you plan your new chapter.
Good going, for opening up to new possibilities! That's hugely healing.
Big hugs
Hops
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Tossed and last night. I could not fall asleep at all last night after my NM told me there are no upcoming appointments for the T. I ended up liking him, but she's made a series of excuses of why she is not booking appointments.
Aug 13th - she has court the next morning. She ends up getting excused, and the appointment was not in direct time conflict (i.e cant be in two places at once).
Aug 20th - the T did not call her back.
Aug 27th - "I can't make that one"
Sept 3rd - Its Labor Day - he;s not accepting appointments
Such nonsense. BS about how the sessions are expensive (I'm guessing $200 each) but then dont just do 5 and not book again, thats the real waste. Do it all the way through or not all. Halfway is worse...
Today, got up feeling much better. What she does is not in my control. My focus today is my meeting with my business partner at a major network for our Tv show.
Yesterday, I had a job interview for a part time gig, start up. Maybe can turn into a F/T career opportunity, if not, its cash flow until something better comes along.
Met somebody new and regretted talking with them - they started in with unsolicited advice I did not need. Was open to new information that provides expansion, but also not same old law of attraction crap that yields nothing long term.
Have a great week everybody!
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Well, that T is toast!
At my Mothers urging, because she "can't make it down" i.e set and keep an appointment, I went to see the T yesterday. I was hoping there were other ways for me to make progress independent of her and that is what he wants also, but he kept egging me to "change", did I want to "change" ? I did not say anything because I don't know what "change" he was referring to. And, did I think she "owes" me as if I was keeping the conflict alive because I feel cheated. I told him she doesn't owe me, but different parents, different outcomes and this is my situation.
Do other people get help with co-signing for a house from their gym buddy? Their church? Their boss? NO. If they don't come from an open and welcoming family that encourages them to date and socialize and supports it, how do they meet someone and get married? Does their work help? The IRS? Their employer? Their guidance counselor? NO. NONE of the above. Those are things that come from cooperative, functional families where they believe in unconditional positive regard. Some people find someone who will take them away from their dysfucntional family and create a new, healthier family, but I never found that. I don't have that and have suffered for it. Does she "owe" me, NO, hence different parents, different outcomes. Not my fault I chose what I did, I did the best with what I had to work with.
He wanted to help me with my job situation but I felt his help would be too general, I need specific mentorship from someone who knows my abilities/temperment/goals/interests and someone who knows the business of television. He doesn't know either(not his fault, he's an MFT). I need higher level, specific support for my current projects and pursuits, not more generalities and not having this higher level support IS the problem, so if you don't get that - then we are not on the same page. Other people have siblings, husbands in the same industry or family members who understand their business, and have a vested interest in their success. I don't have any of those supportive people and can't expect the therapist or a paid consultnat to fill that role. Mentoring, when you are talking about business development is a shady endeavor, because if the person knows you and your industry, he is likely a competitor or co-worker and that has inherent risks, which is exactly why people with a spouse or family member with that industry knowledge and experience is a god-send.
These two things - "change" (not adapt, grow, improve, suggest, or revise) and "owe" triggered me AFTER I left the office and sent me into a tailspin for the rest of the day. These tailspins are why I really don't like therapy sessions. Even when you like the therapist, you can feel persecuted and misunderstood, which ultimately make me want to avoid the therapeutic process.
Nice guy, turns out my friend goes to his temple, but ultimately, the T is clueless and triggered me so I am NOT going back! I canceled an appointment for next week and basically told him I needed specific mentorship, not general advice. I did not want to touch the other two and don't expect we will.
If my Mom asks me to go back with her, I will participate, but only because I asked for years and if she is willing to meet me halfway, I will continue to try. Otherwise, there is no reason for me to see him.
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I'm sorry it's not going well, Ales, although it sounds a bit like your mum is yanking your chain with the not booking appointments and then you going alone and him not being right for you anyway. Does it feel like that for you or do you feel it has helped a bit, albeit it in a sort of sideways way?
I think the right T is vital. I've seen quite a few over the years that I've seen twice and then not gone back to. I can get easily triggered if I feel my version of events is being questioned (and by that I mean if I feel I'm being treated as if I'm making things up). I can cope with it when it's someone I trust but not with someone new (in fact, going through things checking for accuracy and balance with someone I trust has helped me loads because it helped me see I was spot on in a lot of cases but it doesn't work for me with someone I don't know well).
I've absolutely no clue what you do about your career situation, it is way out of my world of knowledge but I hope there is someone/something that can help you out a bit and steer you in the right direction (or even just a bit closer to where you want to be) xx