Beware the scorned NM

[Ales2]

Frustrating morning yesterday.  A very heated conversation with my NM.

I left feeling a little defeated, terribly misunderstood and definitely unheard, but after  a conversation with my higher self and some Malibu sun and sand, my self respect had returned and I was feeling better.  I was in fact, again, overcompensating, trying to explain something about myself to someone who does not care to listen.

I’m a much stronger person now and can choose to be empowered or disempowered by the situation. The hurt is gone.

Here is more of less the short hand of the conversation:

1.   The usual problems with listening and understanding.
2.   She insults me about being between jobs again but can’t remember the titles of my last three jobs and which ones were paid positions and which were for credit only positions.
3.   She discovered via Google that I have posted on some NM sites (mostly on facebook) and thinks she is an N. 
4.   When asked how she felt about the posts, she refused to answer. I asked are you angry? Hurt? Offended? No response. She wants to talk to “someone” to help her answer that. Emotional dishonesty.
5.   She then mentioned the people who lose their jobs over posting on the internet, so I ask, are you telling me that I will lose my job? Or this is why I am between jobs?”  Her response “Oh, I never said that".  I respond with, "No you implied it, what do you really mean?"  No response from her.
6.   She insults me with “Which positions have you had in the last 8 years” not remembering what I’ve just completed.
7.   When asked how she remembers things, seeing, hearing, writing, experiencing, she had not response to that.
8.   Doesn’t know my work or projects because she does not know what a website is or a lifestyle marketing show or a business plan.
9.   Hung up on me.
10.   I yelled because I was not heard. I’ve never really yelled at anyone else in my life.
11.   Wants peace but refuses to resolve actual problems. Peace is a mirage. 
12.   Claims to love me and want the best for me, so I told her “love is listening” and she can’t seem to do that. Also, has no idea what is actually best for me.

So, here we are, another argument.

To maintain my self respect, I cannot let her into my world in any way.

I need a really fast red convertible Jaguar, an Savvanah cat named Shera, a Calvin Klein wardrobe, lots of gold and diamond jewelry, extensive international travel, a solid producing job, a supportive husband and an overflowing bank account....that would help!

[Ales2]

 Rather than being your thoughts and emotions, be the awareness behind them.

--Eckhart Tolle

[sKePTiKal]

There's another option - you may not find it feasible.

Make it impossible for her to ding your self-respect. Not saying interactions still won't frustrate you, make you crazy... but that is HER PROBLEM to deal with, not yours. You know how far you've come, and YOU get to make the measurements about what "successful" means. Not her.

Opinions. Everyone's got one. Doesn't make them "right" -- even if that's what they believe.

[Ales2]

sKePTiKal  --

There's another option - you may not find it feasible.  ~Its feasible and I have done it in the past. The mistake I made was again, overcompensating, giving her a chance when I know it will only end the same way. I opened up when I know I shouldn't have.

Make it impossible for her to ding your self-respect. Not saying interactions still won't frustrate you, make you crazy... but that is HER PROBLEM to deal with, not yours. You know how far you've come, and YOU get to make the measurements about what "successful" means. Not her.  ~ Yes, yes, yes

Opinions. Everyone's got one. Doesn't make them "right" -- even if that's what they believe. ~ yes, yes and more yes!

My mistake is that I sometimes forget the lesson of don't talk to the deaf and don't overcompensate.  They want to information, they have to ask. If they don't ask, you don't tell. Its the way of keeping the boundary.

Thanks for your post, you are right on.

[sKePTiKal]

No matter how many years you've been practicing, some days you just fall for the bait. It happens to the best of us.

[Hopalong]

I spent half my life as a fish, Ales.

Bait hooks us in our belief that we can make personality reality change....
and it's painful. Especially when it's a mother we wish could comfort us.

AND, everybody has thrashing on the hook incidents.

Hops

[Ales2]

Thanks for all the support!

[Ales2]

And, so the scorned NM took quite a huge step. 

This conversation, three weeks ago or so, has now resulted in me getting a phone call from a psychotherapist. She always says she needs to see "somebody" but never explains what or who that "somebody" is - my brother, a lawyer, a therapist, clergy (she doesn't go to church, doesn't believe in religion), a family friend?   So, today that "somebody" called. I tried to look him up online, but not sure which therapist he is just yet.

So, I'm guessing I will be seeing some therapist soon. 

My questions are:
Do I tell him at the outset that I think my Mother is an N?
Or do I just describe the events and details and let him tell me what that is?
Do I tell him that I don't have any interest in resolving the conflict with my Mother because she is an N and I've accepted that they don't change? 
Do I explain that my only goal is to be independent from her so that I no longer need her in my life at all? 

Ahhhh.... another little fork in the road taking me farther away from what I've planned that I did not need!

[Hopalong]

A phone call from a T is an invitation or request to do family therapy with your mother, right?

An invitation or request is not a command that you have to obey. It's up to you to decide whether you feel it might benefit you or ease the tension.

You are [edit, oops, sorry! not]an adult woman who can choose what you feel will be constructive or relieving going forward.

I think perhaps a lot of this is complicated by your financial entwining, or some other form of money dependence/control issue, with your mother. And likewise, I understand that it may just not be possible in Hollywood for you to make it without some support.

It's a very tough dilemma and I feel for you, Ales.

Courage for this decision, whichever way you decide to go--
Hops

[Ales2]

Hi Hops,

Yes, the phone call was for me to meet with him in advance.  It appears that she wants validation from a 3rd party to cut me out of her life. I participated because I already said I would. 

I came off sounding depressed, dysfunctional and moderately hopeless. I told him that if my employment was consistent, I would not have anything to do with her. He told me its probably best not to tell her that.  He is not motivated for us to be in contact or resolve our differences, so in all likelihood, we will have 3 sessions and end our relationship.

I'm happy about it actually. She picked him and I'm fine with it if it comes to that. No reason to carry on this charade anymore.

Good! Maybe this year I will finally be free!

[Ales2]

Worst part of therapy is there no way to appear anything less than dysfunctional or feel like I can maintain any self respect in the session. He asks, you answer and come off sounding like a loser. There is no other way about it.

Its what I hated with my last T and never got over it. Oh well. I feel fine when I am by myself and when I interact with other people. Who cares what therapy feels like? Its uncomfortable and unlike the gym, there is no upside to the discomfort.

Oh well. Nobody cares about that.

[Twoapenny]

Worst part of therapy is there no way to appear anything less than dysfunctional or feel like I can maintain any self respect in the session. He asks, you answer and come off sounding like a loser. There is no other way about it.

Its what I hated with my last T and never got over it. Oh well. I feel fine when I am by myself and when I interact with other people. Who cares what therapy feels like? Its uncomfortable and unlike the gym, there is no upside to the discomfort.

Oh well. Nobody cares about that.

Oh, Ales, could it be the wrong kind of therapy or therapist?  Therapy was (and most of the time still would be!) the only place where I felt heard, validated, normal!  It was my sanctuary from a world where I felt like everyone and everything kept telling me I was wrong.  Therapy was the place where I felt right.  I know that we're all different but reading your post made me feel sad and I wondered if it might be the kind of therapy or the individual?  I think it would be nice for you to have a place where you feel heard xx

[Ales2]

Hi Two ---

Thanks for your post, I appreciate it very much.

After much consideration and journaling, its possible that I came into the session with an agenda of my own, which is validation that my Mother really is awful and contributed to my problems long term. He met her the day before, and I'm sure she played the nice old lady routine (she is 81 now and I just turned 50) of "I'm just worried, she doesn't have a stable career".  That is what the T told me.  Its possible the next sessions will be more about solving those issues rather than wallowing in them.

The first reality is that I do have a career, one that she doesn't like or understand (TV Production) and I do have very marketable skills, but fall short in the workplace largely due to problems I have with abilities to demonstrate my accomplishments, ask for what I can do and I tend to overcompensate by cooperating with others. It has limited my growth in the last couple of years.

The second reality is that she has done everything to encourage me to accept lesser employment (including temping, organizing, sell my car and get a job at starbucks, part time TV work - which does not exist)  and discourage me from starting my own company or owning a home. That is recent stuff, over the last 5 years, but its the same story of discouragement and pattern through junior high, high school and college. When I got out on my own, I did have a 20 year career, complete with promotions and hobbies such as marathon running and volunteering on the Board of my professional organization.

Point is, my current place is not as fluid as it once was and thus she feels my pursuits need to be abandoned, because any trouble I am having is proof that I am not cut out for it.  Its simply not the case.

Getting back to the therapist, he will either see that underneath my experience, there is also someone who was hurt and wounded by her Nist BS and it has negatively impacted my career and relationships. That will probably be addressed in our next session where NMom has to be there.  Whatever happens, I am not giving up my self respect to her or the therapist and as stubborn as it may sound, I'm sticking with my career choice. Anywhere I go, the wounds and communication issues will follow me, so a change of career is not going to yield another result or more success. I could, however, find the right place for my wounds and my experience.

I feel better after I journaled and made 3x5 notecards for the next session. I'm a little more optimistic. I'll make sure the T understands my POV next time and see if that helps and results in any progress.  Maybe it will, maybe it won't. 

And, the last word is this. THANK YOU DR. RICHARD GROSSMAN. This forum and the books and other experts I've researched over the 9 years, (yes, 9 years!) have ended this chapter for me. I'm done with most of these issues, and I have accepted there are parts of me that might never change, and I'm OK with that. Key is to find people who love and accept me as I am. Its their loss if they don't. I thank the board and the friends I have made here for that. THANK YOU!

[Dr. Richard Grossman]

Hi Ales2,

Thank you so much for contributing to this wonderful community.  People like you have made it a very special place--and a refuge for many who have suffered and haven't found help elsewhere--for all these years!

Richard

[Ales2]

So.... I am heartbroken.

I went to the session with the T and he turns out to be a terrific, caring, focused, solution oriented therapist. He gave us both equal time and had a goal for the session and a homework assignment (i.e talk to each other more often about subjects other than the current conflict). Somehow something wonderful clicked with him for me. He seemed genuinely interested in the predicament.

Mom brought up the 30 year old who was evicted from his parents home and elder abuse. She seemed to imply we had that problem because she tried to get free counseling for this problem, but she can't get the counseling unless she files charges against me. She won't, because its not EA but she did tell him she feels taken advantage of.  It was acknowledged that because she doesn't understand what I do, I can't confide in her but she takes that as me keeping secrets from her.  Lots of issues, I wont bore you with......

She then came over to my place for a short visit ( I adopted a new kitty) but sadly, she did not like him and wants to see a lawyer. Its too far for her to drive, its expensive, yada, yada. So disappointed if she doesn't stick to the 3 sessions he asked for since she picked him and made the effort. My sense is that he did not validate her position enough which is what she wanted him to do.  I thought he was giving us both a fair hearing.

She then asked about me about Dr. Karyl McBride ( I posted on her FB page and it came up in a google search) ...and I ignored the question.   Then she left.

I've been in tears on and off for the last couple of hours. Its disappointment and relief all at the same time. Trying to process it all.

(PS - I know that MFTs are mandated reporters.)