Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Hopalong on November 27, 2005, 09:06:00 PM
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I have had so many different times when I've had to BATTLE to not write emails (in my case, that was the most common struggle) to people I knew I needed to let go of. But there have also been times when I needed to block people out.
I think it's boundary practice, and there's something peculiarly disembodied about email, more than a letter, much more than the phone--that creates a new kind of sort of unclear boundary to deal with. But it does seem to be a hard decision. It's like firmly closing a door. (You don't even want to know about the times I peeked in my Deleted items folder just to see...)
I do notice people here, too, getting hooked by email...anybody want to talk about it?
Hopalong
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I've done it only once and that was very difficult but necessary. My younger brother was going through a very hostile period sending hateful emails to me and later to the rest of the family. I realized later that he wasn't well, but at the time, it was sickening to check my inbox. My stomach wrenched and tied up into a knot. At the start, I kept every signle post as a record of all that had transpired between us (people have a way of re-writing history whether knowingly or not). Later I came to realize how pointless this dialogue was and stopped writing and then blocked his address just so I wouldn't have to see his posts in my box and wonder what vile poison was inside. Eventually, I was even able to delete my entire file of all his hate letters. I realized that I didn't need to preserve these facts. People believe what they want to believe regardless. Once I was no longer a willing participant, he moved on to someone else in the family.
I think at first I thought I would be unaffected by the emails as long as I didn't respond to them. I quickly realized that this wasn't so. It was painful reading the emails and even just seeing the unopened post in my inbox. I felt his presence even though I couldn't see him or hear him. Because e-mail transfers so quickly, it is different from a hateful letter which could have been written days ago and time has probably altered what was written then.
Blocking someone is a very big decision and not one I take lightly (I've only done it once) but it can be very necessary.
CeeMee
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It was painful reading the emails and even just seeing the unopened post in my inbox. I felt his presence even though I couldn't see him or hear him.
Bingo. That affirms a lot of what I've felt and very clearly. I think part of it is that email is ordinarily either friendlly or innocuous (except for spam)...and creepy exchanges can build up momentum in what first looks like such a "casual" format...
I've had the very same sense--began to feel sucked in by the power of my monitor, that someone could put their face in my Inbox and then I'd have to make that decision. And that backfired because as a writer, I need to make sure my computer is a safe space.
I know it may seem like a huge decision, but I vote for seeing it as less huge. In a way, it's no different than physically turning away from someone who's yelling at you or saying toxic things...or leaving the room. It's the same thing, not allowing an abusive or unhealthy communication to polllute your head.
A person always has the choice to mail you a letter. Which one can read or toss. Or even: didn't Elvis sing "Return to Sender?"
I'm sorry that was such a painful call, CeeMee, but it sure sounds like the right one.
Hopalong
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And that backfired because as a writer, I need to make sure my computer is a safe space.
Totally agree. This is where I put my deepest thoughts and just about every facet of my life is reflected there some how. To be hesitant to turn it on because some hate mail might be lurking would take away my greatest pleasures, writing, reading and connecting with the world.
CeeMee
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I've been bouncing emails from undesirable people. What this communicates to the sender is that my email address doesn't exist.
I have only two people who I do this with. My Ndad and my exNfriend.
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I'm not so bad with emails.However, I have a problem with texts! I just send huge text messages to people I should be letting go of. There is something satisfying about having sent it. I think it might be that they dont really seem real :S
It is all pretty pointless.
I dont really tend to get unwelcome mail. So I guess I am lucky with that for now.
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Hi all:
Interesting topic Hoppy!
For me.........I kind of did the exact opposite of what ya'll are saying.
Does blocking your telephone count?
I called up the phone company and ordered "call blocking", pumped in the phone numbers of my abusers and their buddies....and sent a note by snail mail which stated:
"Please do not call my home at this time. If you have anything to communicate to me, please do so by email or regular mail".
Until reading this thread.....I hadn't thought about what a strong boundary I had put in place. It just seemed like I did something mean but necessary, at the time.
It's taken awhile to realize it wasn't mean.....it was kind. I could have said what I was really thinking ( :shock:) and that would not have been very kind at all. Plus....I had to so something to help myself feel safe....I was shaking every time the phone would ring......waiting for the next nasty call. It was kind of me NOT to report these people for harassment (or stupid??). It was kind of me to stop them from hurting me further......kind to me. Someone had to be kind to me!! That wasn't just necessary......it was reasonable.
That boundary was a big step. A major statement. And it worked.
My abuser(s) tell too many lies to put them in writing. I've yet to receive an email or a letter. That would be evidence that would be tough to argue wouldn't it? No. They are waaaaaaaaay too smart to put any of that stuff in writing. There is now a cold silence that suits me fine (other then through the grape vine comments that drift in now and then). It helped me detach very much.
And the best part......I feel safe. I can answer my phone. I can look in mail box or open my emails....and feel comfortable.....no shaking....no fear. It put a safe distance between my abuser(s) and me. :D
I'm a big fan of "BLOCK" whatever. If it puts up a wall that helps you feel safe and keeps people from invading your space, from causing you hurt or harm, from upsetting you......go for it.
It can always be turned off later, if that seems reasonable.
:D Sela
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it's interesting I rarely answer the telephone for years now- then created an easy way in for abusers/disturbers of the peace by email!
It really was quite obsessive the way I used email for a while, checking every time I came in, and writing huge reams of letters.
Now if I feel the urge to emote by email I tend to come on here and read/ post.
I can think of a couple of relationships which went on longer because of email...
I have actually put more distance between myself and most people, I really need to be safe and just be myself right now, find my own level, decide how much medication I am going to need, what things bother me etc.
Emails/ phone calls can be really upsetting and spoil an otherwise peaceful day.
I wasn't impressed by a call from a friend last month which degenerated into an attack from her because she says I'm too negative about the US and patriotism...she was really angry with me, it came out of nowhere, and left me drained. For nothing. It sounds selfish but anyone who wants my time right now has to accept- I am recovering, I am prioritising me, and I don't want any superfluous emotion! It's going to be a big part of living with Bipolar to accept this and to know my own limits and limitations.
Block sender for my own neurons!
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Stay, I can relate. I'm VERY glad I've moved past my Glen Close period. I never text anyone since I don't have a cell phone...but I do know the feeling of compulsively emailing someone who clearly doesn't give a crap. It has been a long time, now, thank God. But I remember how horribly compulsive and out of control and pathetic and addicted I felt while doing that. ICK. At the end of my last relationship (with my last N) I told him not to email me and it worked... I also am very, very wary of using too much email in a new relationship with a man. I really DON'T want a real-time relationship to be built thru email...I am so prone to fantasy, ignoring red flags, and creating fictions anyway, that I can get sucked into the typing and get hooked by who's answered or not and what's the meaning of that ... or this ... and somehow in several relationships I've been in, email turned into a way to stay DISTANT, rather than connected. It's like, with the phone, you have at least a real-time voice. With email, I'd get these vague little noncomittal teases about when I was going to next see the love object...and it would hook me in my most vulnerable place. So now I try to make it a practice to limit long email correspondence in dating relationships. I'd rather SEE them, TALK to them, find out who they are in REALITY. And if they're not turning up, regularly and reliably, in reality, then it ain't real! (Who knew!)
Sela, sure call blocking counts! That was such an intelligent self-rescue. You had a pile of people to keep away and you went about it so rationally. Awesome.
Email's new boundary land that seems to somehow enter a new emotional "place". These anecdotes and thoughts are really helpful. Thanks all for sharing them. More!
Hopalong
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Hopalong-I know exactly what you mean. The only way I can ever get a sense of how someone is really feeling or what is really going on is by talking to them in person. However,some people do not agree with that and I find it only makes things worse.
I have recently been told off, in quite a mean way I may add, for texting someone a little too much. I guess that was an example of me crossing that person's boundaries, which I shouldn't have. It is hard not to start feeling like a stalker though. I just dont get why some people dont reply and then it could all be sorted out. I need communication!
I think from now on if I ever need to tell someone something it should be via the phone or in person. yes!
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The first thing people do as part of the break up period is to delete the contact with an individual who you no longer want to associate is to delete their contact details from you phone, mobile phone and e-mail. This thereby prevents you contacting them. This is was I was told and I may be wrong but the fact you still may remember of have their contact details demonstrates some desire to be linked to them in some way (either subconciouslessly or conciously).
SO my next question is why have their details in the first place? Is there something that these people have of yours? I mean if you have children I understand but why else would you want to either have someone contact this person or possibly give yourself the opportunity to contact these people. I could understand if there were children, a business or something like that, but I still don't understand.
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Hi stayhuman,
The reason people don't reply because they may not want contact with you (not that is not always a good thing for you). It may not be helpful for you emotionally getting closure or to find out what you could have done better (yes I tried to have that conversation with my prior mentioned ex but it never worked), alternatively, it also doesn't help you to better understand how to improve relationships. But it may be necessary to prevent anger, aggression, frustration or sometimes further pain from the person! (I know I would have liked the insight she could have offered but the cost may have been too great!) On the other hand it could be because their phone is disconnected!
I do agree with what you say about texts and texting other because it is very impersonal and easily taken out of context and I also agree with the talking over the phone or in person is better because you can get an understanding both by asking them to explain the context and also tell by the tone of their voice!
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j_stice:
You are right-hanging on to someone's contact details does mean that you desire to be linked to them. Unless you are completely over it and know that you can maintain a healthy friendhsip with the person then it does seem dangerous to hang on to their details.
I guess the person in question does not have anything of mine as such. However, I still feel an emotional attachment and find it very difficult just to end all contact. This has always been something I have found difficult-once I get past a certain point with someone. It does not really make any sense and since being told by the person in question that my contact was not welcome I have deleted his details and do not plan to make any future contact.
I guess I was trying to gain a better understanding of what happened with my ex. Not only that but I wanted him to validate me and I knew it but I could not stop myself. Add to that strong feelings for the person and it does not bode well. I kept trying to meet up with him in person but he would not reply, and I guess that means he wasn't interested, although he would often say how he wanted us to be friends.
Just to add something interesting to the mix- this person actually broke up with me VIA text message. I got offended at something he had said Via text, he got annoyed at me and promptly called everything off. When we met up a few weeks later we both agreed that what we had said had been taken totally out of context and that we had just communicated really badly. And THAT is because text messages are so impersonal and it is impossible to tell anything from them, as you say. GRR, this is one reason why I do not want to rely on these forms of technology anymore when it comes to relationships. Still, the damage was done and it is time to move on..
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Just to add:
I respect people's right not to reply to an email or to decide that they do not want contact with you. This is something that I think everybody has the right to do. Certainly, I know some people whom I would not want to talk to if they contacted me and I would not hesitate to set that boundary.
My problem was that I had had a relationship with the person and I was still attached. Since the person has set his boundaries with me I am not going to try to break them.
However, it would have been nice to have been informed in a construtive way, rather than yelled at.:S
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Hey Stay,
In response to an loooong impassioned protesting email about our relationship, my next-to-next-to-last N (I know, slow learned, but I GOT it) wrong me a cruel harangue that basically said (roared, if you can roar by email): RELATIONSHIP? WHAT RELATIONSHIP?
I had gotten well past a certain point...and the hurt was devastating. He was my hit-bottom point, and even though there were two more Ns in fairly quick succession after that, I was slowly getting it. I got untangled from one after just 2 months with only a few after-hiccups of contact, and though the last one lasted a year, once I woke up that was THAT. I am actually repelled by him now, and hope that new sensation extends to any future Ns I run into when I date again.
(Would've been a healthier person's first response anyway.)
This sounds like a bit off topic and partly is, but in with both those Ns, a whole lot of the "relationship" was my actually feeling fairly voiceless (strange for a chatterbox, but absolutely true once I am intimate with someone)...and compensated for that by conducting so much of my yearning and affection and contacting by writing----emails. I really needed to block MYSELF. So that's why I have an aversion to heavy dependence on email for communication now. I make myself (with men, anyway, not here!) keep it much shorter and more to the point than I did before...and less revealing, too. I'd rather reveal and connect in real life...
Make sense?
Hopalong
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This is going to be long, sorry. I put my SIL on email block last year, and have no regrets whatsoever.
I hate to bore you with backstory, but . . . my mother is an N. I have always been the target, Sister has gotten some of it, while Brother has been placed on a pedestal, the male heir, center of M's universe. While S and I have both struggled through life, B got private schooling, numerous free cars (all the ones he crashed were promptly replaced), ten years of free college, a beautiful apartment, etc. He lived an all expense paid life, which got even better once he got married. He was given a house, a European honeymoon, and every year, lavish Christmas gifts. The worst part, he married a girl just like dear old Mum . . . an N.
SIL is a real piece of work . . . unbelievably superficial, and very proud of the fact that she has married a meal ticket. She doesn't work, just leaches off the parents. She has tried very hard to replace S and I as top "daughter," secure her place in the will, etc. Since she married the favorite child, it hasn't been a problem for her.
Last year, S and I finally reached our limit with M's Christmas celebrations (we are all in our forties, yet M insists on continuing the type of Christmas we had as young children, trying to maintain control over us). We got sick of watching B and SIL being treated like royalty, so neither of us showed up for last year's shindig. This sent M into a rage. She apparently vented to SIL, her only guest. M is a pathological liar, so all the info SIL got was, well, a lie.
A week after Christmas, S and I both received a two-page email tirade from SIL, telling us how much she hated us, chastising us for mistreating our "wonderful" mother, berating our choices in life, going into details about our careers and finances, and talking about some of our childhood experiences (personal information that could only have come from M). I mean, she did NOT mince words. Three hours later came a second email. I thought that perhaps she had time to think about it and was sending an apology. WRONG! Instead, I got this:
"Oh, and re: your request to get the receipts for your Christmas gifts so you can return them- considering the ugly, cheap, lame-ass gifts Paul and I have accepted with grace and thanks from you over the years, you can forget it. Here's a plan - if you're having so much trouble with your 'expenses', why don't you try not spending all your money on Beanie Babies and dolls and crap, and start managing and investing like normal adults. And in the future, should either of you have anything to say to me - contact me personally. I'm not going to be taking any more of your snotty demands from your mother. If you don't have the guts to deal with me instead of using your mom as a messenger, then you don't deserve any more of my time or attention."
First off, I never wanted her time or attention. Second, I never asked to return her gifts, because she's never bought me any gifts. The best I've ever gotten from her is free promotional stuff that came from B's office . . . socks with the company logo on it, etc. I have, however, always bought very nice gifts for the two of THEM, usually high denomination gift cards, and nothing that would be considered cheap, lame, or ugly. Anyway, that final comment about my gifts cut to the bone. Even if my gifts HAD been cheap and ugly, it's the thought that counts, you know. Or so I thought. This was intentionally cruel. Just evil.
Needless to say, that afternoon I put her on email filter. I know that any emails that she's tried to send were probably equally cruel, so I feel that I did the right thing in sparing myself a lot of hurt. It's not like I missed an apology. Surely that will never come.
Geez . . . as if it weren't bad enough having a mother who is an N. I'm also, BTW, considering placing M on email block. This one is going to be harder though. Like others have mentioned, I'm not yet at the point to end ALL contact with her. But as far as SIL is concerned, yes, all doors are now closed.
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Hopalong, yes it makes sense. It is definitely better to connect in real life. :)
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Sela, sure call blocking counts! That was such an intelligent self-rescue. You had a pile of people to keep away and you went about it so rationally. Awesome.
Thanks Hoppy. Boy! Did I feel irrational at the time but I told myself to do it anyway and I could always change my mind tomorrow. Guess what? I never did change my mind!! Hahahahahahaha!!!
Good for you for wanting real life connections instead of so much of this text/email stuff in your relationships. Afterall, you want real relationships and text/emails etc are sort of.....cyber relationships anyhow right? I think it's a good decision that will save you much confusion/mix up in future. Good for you Hoppy!!!
Hi PoozyBear:
The ugly thing about typed messages (vs even hand written) whether sent through space or air or by magic (heehee.......that's how pc illiterate I am eh? :roll:).....is that people can say whatever the heck they want to without having to face the person they're saying it to....and if it's nasty stuff being said.......it shows either.....the person is a coward and doesn't have the guts to say it to your face.......or if they won't write it down......well.....maybe they're too cowardly to have a concrete written record of their words (espcecially handwriting because it's hard to argue...."oh I didn't write that"...when it's in the person's own handwriting).
So basically.......your sil is a coward, imo. Even a phone call would have shown that she had some spine.
Good for you for blocking her. First of all........it's not her place to intervene between you and your mother.....she isn't God. Second......she obviously has no interest in your side of any story....the unfair, cowardly, butt-kissing, wicked b.... that she is....and Third.......she had to throw in hateful, hurtful stuff....just to double wham you......it wasn't good enough to just express her opinion that you had mistreated your mother.....she had to add poisonous comments about your gifts too......spiteful, rude, cruel, thankless, evil :twisted: behaviour.
Hahahahahahaha!! You get the last laugh! She gets stuck with your mum and her nasty snarling......soooooon momma will need a new target eh?? .....and they can both have a honkin' time roaring about their mistreatment together....for awhile....until the ....tide shifts and wait......you may even get a call from poor old sil looking for sympathy some day, once she gets into the batting cage...
...in the mean time... you and Sis can celebrate holdiays and enjoy eachother in peace.....forget that such ridiculous people exist...other than the bare necessities of contact (your choice) ...which may be somethiing like....a lovely card sent with best wishes......or.......an invite to lunch, in some spicey cafe that mamma will hate (no sil included--heehee)!!!
You did a very keen thing too.......blocking her. Why argue with such a lowlife??
:D Sela
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Sela, thank you for your insightful comments. You totally made my day. :D
Kathy
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Hi stayhuman,
All I can say about your situation is maybe there is something that you may have done in the past or something that has been perceived to have been done that would prevent the other person remaining in touch. I know from experience that the ex-g/f (my NPD g/f previously mentioned) I had to deal with I would keep in touch with because I only recently learned about all the bad things that were said about me and all the bad things that were done to me. As a result I felt it was better not to have contact, in any way shape or form. Maybe the boundaries issue that you discussed earlier posts are the cause of it, maybe you had unreasonable expectations of them or maybe your just too hurtful to them (i.e. you cause them to relive too many bad memories) prevents the contact.
Whilst the yelling at you and the way it may be coveyed may not be the most appropriate way to handle things but it may be the only way things are conveyed by this person to you (to emphasize the point). No doubt, they may be confused about how they feel, but there may be the clarity that boundary issues are what pushed them to make the decision.
I was once told "time heals all wounds," if you really want to keep in touch with this person keeping hoping that this person may see the benefit of keeping in touch otherwise maybe this experience is best used for personal reflection.
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j_stice,
Id say all of the above is true ;)
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I've been bouncing emails from undesirable people. What this communicates to the sender is that my email address doesn't exist.
Hi Sallying,
How do you do this?