Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: dragonsamm on August 19, 2006, 03:31:44 PM
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I guess the term "voicelessness" is more than appropriate for me. Not only am I voiceless, but if I weren't, I wouldn't know what to say.
The fact that I have been a secret poet and kept a personal journal for 30 years would seem to belie the statement that I don't know what to say.......The public aspect of it is probably the problem, I would guess.
I've read several of the posts here and feel a strong connection to what is being discussed. But I seem to be unable to ask for what I'm looking for.
I've been a long time at searching for my "self", my sense of purpose in life. It seems to be slipping further and further from my grasp, the more I search, give up, retry, pause, try again, etc, etc, etc.
I can't afford therapy, am barely surviving now. I guess I just need to know that others are struggling, too. Even if there is no end in sight, we have to keep breathing.
I often think I was born on the wrong planet, that no "cure" exists for my condition, emotional as it is. There has to be a better place somewhere.....
Thanks for the awareness of other's struggles. It does help to know one isn't alone, even in the reality of pain and pointlessness.
:?
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Welcome, Dragonsamm,
I'm very sorry you're in so much pain. I hope you'll tell as much of your story here as you're inspired to type. It would be good to know more about what built up to your feeling this way. That's where to start unraveling the knot (on the other side of which is new thread).
Meanwhile, not knowing you yet, I can absolutely guarantee you one thing: you are not pointless.
Glad you're posting.
Hopalong
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Hi Dragonsamm,
Welcome to the board.
So many times in my life I have felt unable to ask for what I desired... I remember a deep sense of hopelessness and to this day I'm not sure what the basis of that was. I do know that it was a lie, because there is always hope.. as long as we have life and breath, there is hope.
Whether it's thinking that nobody could ever possibly understand, or a false belief that you and your thoughts and feelings are not worth being seen and heard, or even if you think that what you so desperately long for is a fantasy and impossible to achieve in this life... I do believe that the truth is your key to freedom. That truth is that we are all so very much alike at the core and we need each other, painful and risky as relationship can be, we need each other. I pray that you will receive the strength and overpowering desire to reach out at the right time and I know there are folks here who will offer every support and encouragement to you in return.
With love,
Hope
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Hello dragonsamm - welcome.
All that I would say, Hops and Hope have said before me. But I'd like to add: take your time, visit, disclose as you feel safe disclosing; we have much in common here but we also differ widely, and there's plenty of room.
Glad you're here, glad you found us -
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Hi Dragonsamm,
Welcome :)!
Hopalong's advice...Dittos!
Certain Hope's advice...Dittos!
Stormchild's advice....Dittos!
I especially liked the part that said there is plenty of room and that those who participate are widely different, but you will rarely find a bad egg!
Peace,
teartracks
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Hi Dragonsamm,
I kind of smiled when I saw the title of your thread and then read your first post. My husband often says similar things and it gives him much grief. All the years we've been together and he still struggles with telling me about himself!!! So, I guess it can be a very deep seated thing. But it doesn't stop me from loving him the way I do and from knowing him the way I do even though the words aren't always there. He's the best person I know.
So, anyway, it's good to meet you and welcome to this journey. This is a complicated place where you can listen or talk as you wish. I know I've personally learned so much here. I've learned more here in a short time than I would have believed possible. It's pretty amazing sometimes.
Pennyplant
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Dragonsamm,
Welcome I have learned a great deal as well here and everyone is so supportive :D :D :D
MoonLight
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Thank you, all who responded (to my surprise, I must say). I really didn't expect much of a response, especially so quickly. It brought tears to my eyes, really. I have spent so many years trying to figure out why I've been unable to have the life I believe in, I might have begun to think it was all a fantasy. But I hear the care and understanding in the responses I got, I just don't have a clue what might be possible....
I am 50 years old, tired of life. I gave birth to 3 beautiful, intelligent children, and I have several brothers and friends that I know care about me. But there has always been a hole in my soul that I cannot fill. I know cognitively how valuable every soul in the universe is...but there is still a voice inside that tells me..."except me". I have been through enough relationships with men that failed at every turn that i have no hope of finding anyone who can even come close to being what I need in a healthy relationship. Or hope that i could be what I need to be within that kind of framework. At the same time, I feel extremely lonely, and know that solitude, while necessary for my soul, is quickly toxic to me when it goes on too long.
My financial situation is dire, with very little hope of change.
I know that Dr Phil would tell me to just get up and move, and something will change. But I've been waiting, trying, reading, listening, praying, crying, writing, talking, for more than 10 years with no improvement. I'm just tired of the fight.
I'm told I have an IQ of 131. What good does it do to be intelligent if one cannot make sense out of one's life?
I have read MANY books by authors such as Neale Donald Walsch, Thomas Moore, Dr Wayne Dyer, Deepak Chopra, M Scott Peck, Ken Wilber, Dr Phil, John Bradshaw, Gary Zukav, Clarissa Estes, Caroline Myss, etc, etc, etc. Every one of them took me to the same place in my heart and soul and dropped me like a rock. I cannot make sense out of an apparently pointless struggle.
I cannot give up, I already know too much. I cannot keep crawling, I'm too tired.
What now??
Just numb myself the best I can, and keep moving. Until a moment arrives when it is all too much and i cry myself to sleep, so I can get up in the morning and do it all again.
My kids are the only things that keep me going. Their father abandoned them, i cannot do that to them, too. They deserve at least one parent who cares about them. I try to be what i can be for them. It's all i seem to have.
I love music. I am a lyric-head, can recite the lyrics to nearly any 70's tune you can name. Love Justin Hayward. He is my angel voice, telling me
"Don't you know that it's not too late, the time's not past...And even though I tell myself, all is lost, somewhere there's a spark of hope.... somehow, the world keeps turning, promising a better day, somewhere the spark is burning away..."
from "It's Not Too Late", LP: The View From the Hill
I don't always believe him, but it's nice to hear..............
But one cannot live on another's music. It's all just part of the fantasy.
Thanks for listening.....i needed that!!
Smile
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Hi Dragon:
I know a book that might take you through this place you're in and bring you out on the other side...
Have you read When Things Fall Apart by Pema Chodron?
Hops
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PennyPlant,
My husband has no trouble talking about himself, as long as his discussion remains in the places of his childhood where he felt like part of this delusional "Walton's Family," during his father molesting both his sister and abusing all the children.
To talk to my husband, you'd quickly see that he is stunted back in childhood days. It's sick, sad and also sometimes ANNOYING! How many times can one listen to the same story about kids down at the fishing hole, or how "we tied stuff to the cats tails and let em run through the cornfield." First of all, he has no empathy, so to behead newborn kittens doesn't phase him (I HAVE NEVER ALLOWED THIS TO HAPPEN, BUT HIS FATHER AND HE DID IT YEARS AGO! SICKOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOS!) He has not empathy for people, so when I tell him about one of my friends hurting, his response is "so? that's THEIR PROBLEM, NOT YOURS!" He has even said about my suicidal friends, "If they are that desperate to end it and their lives are soooooooooooo bad, give em a gun and tell them to blow their brains out!"
When he says this, it makes me think DIVORCE!
~Laura
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Laura,
Sometimes my husband says, "If I act like my real self it will scare people." He also had a pretty rough upbringing in some ways, I can think of similar things in his history to what your husband witnessed. But he walled himself off in a different way. He basically divorced himself from these people in his soul. He was there physically, because he was a child of course, and had no choice. But he doesn't seem to consider himself a real part of that family. He loves them, but doesn't feel particularly close to them or feel he is the same as them. And his brothers and sisters really are good people. But he never felt connected. I guess it was good in some ways, though, because he has repeated very little of the problems that he was raised with.
One question I have, Laura: what were the things that first attracted you to your husband?
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Dragonsamm,
It seems like you have spent a very long time on a very large plateau. Seems like maybe you're waiting for a breakthrough. Or a way through to the place where everything will feel right for you. Really I can identify with much that you have written here except that I'm five years younger. You know, sometimes I wish I were dumb--it seems like there is a point where intelligence lets you know too much about the wrong things. You know or see things that you might be better off being ignorant of. I mean better off in terms of how depressing it can be to know some things.
I think it's hard to just decide to make some big change in life especially when you have to think about the consequences to your children and possibly making a poor financial situation worse. So maybe Dr. Phil has ideas that give people something to think about, but maybe it's not practical advice for everyone. One possibility is to try to work with what we already have, what might still make you feel alive, like music or art for example, and then see if there is a slightly different direction to go in starting from there. Of course, I'm someone who tends to hang onto the past. That seems to be the way I'm built. But it still is possible to work from what you already know and maybe find a way to make it new. Find a different angle or door to go through while still operating from that familiar place.
I'd like to hear more about what got you to this time and place if you think of something you'd lke to tell about.
Pennyplant
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Dear Dragonsamm,
I have had that hole in my soul which I could not fill. I now believe that... that hole is where God belonged. All of my life I had tried to fill the gap with other things and people, with wisdom and knowledge and understanding that were simply too shallow to suffice. To me, God is the only One big enough to satisfy. You've read alot of books. My suggestion is to read the gospel of John and the Psalms, for starters... in any translation which appeals to you. You are in my prayers.
With love,
Hope
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welcome!
I have been a secret poet and kept a personal journal for 30 years
that's awesome, that's a strong voice you know.
But I seem to be unable to ask for what I'm looking for.
you can practice getting it out there here- that's what lots of us have been doing.
I have found great support and advice here and once I was able to share in my real life some of my thoughts and experiences.
I'm really impressed by your 30 year journal, what a wonderful document.
I guess I just need to know that others are struggling, too.
people do struggle, often hidden.
They also share, grow, learn and survive.
Like I said- WELCOME!!!
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Pennyplant,
ALthough my husband didn't divorce himself from siblings, I found it so odd when he would be expected to visit his mother, then something came up and he'd say "oh she'll figure it out that I"m not coming when I don't get there." To me that is RUDE and that is how I was taught...you call if you are going to be late or not coming, you don't just ASSUME people know...esp your own MOTHER.
WHen we moved to IL from NY, my husband did not contact his mother or "father" nor did it seem to bother him not hearing from them. I just found it really disturbing. Even now that his mother lives out in IL, he doesn't go there much or call her...it's like he and his siblings grew up as separate "only-children" and never really bonded as siblings...it's just really strange.
One question I have, Laura: what were the things that first attracted you to your husband?
only thing that attracted me to him was chemistry and a way out of my controlling foster mother's house...He was an escape and, in the fantasy I lived in in my mind, he was my prince charming, come to rescue me like Cinderella LITERALLY ( i mean I really believed this...the happily ever after with mr romantic) He is FAR from romantic...even our sexual relationship is more like porno than something on a soap opera. Sad, but true.
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Hi Dragonsamm,
I hear and feel where you're at and I feel your sincerity and can imagine the fatigue.
Of the things you wrote, this one hit me the most:
"I cannot give up, I already know too much. I cannot keep crawling, I'm too tired."
One thing that stays with me and gives me an odd comfort or perhaps empathy is from one of the Grimms tales called Duration of Life:
http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/grimm176.html
Are we at the end of the donkey years and beginning the dog ones but paying the bills forces us not to rest in the dogs years and compels us to extend the donkey years longer?
It sounds like you/I want to rest but the whip of paying the bills keeps us in the donkey years? It's quite a tale, isn't it? It really makes me think.
Please consider us/me your new allied forces. (I'm using this term in the positive meaning of fighting of the good fight, ie: identifying the parental voices (superego, introjects, whatever we call them) in our heads so that they may be freed.
Anansi
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Dragonsamm:
When I was terrified that my daughter would stop crawling and give up, and neither of us could afford therapy for her, I went online and found multiple FREE ways she could find group support and nuture:
--AA, ACOA, Al-Anon (open meetings you can go to even if there's no direct family history of alcoholism. It does not have to be your primary issue for you to get support and learn new ways to cope there...so many people in these meetings have been crawling, or worse, for a long time)
--Community mental health organizations that run support groups on a sliding scale (if you can only give $5, that's what you do)
--Psychology depts at universities sometimes have student-run clinics for PhDs in training
--churches don't charge for caring about you, and have so many supportive subgroups
--support groups for various physical ills
--a volunteer activity that will take you out of yourself and connect you to a larger purpose than your nuclear family only (if you have to drag yourself a time or two, the next time you'll find it energizes you)
I know there are more. Please take yourself somewhere like this.
ReallyMe: That sounds so very very hard. You work hard at your restaurant and parenting and your mentor work and with this description of your h's inability to empathize, I understand even more why connecting with people is so important for you. I'm glad you've found ways to reach out, but it must be very hard to bang up against that personality. Do you ever find time to exercise? Just a thought.
Hops
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Hey Hops!
Yep, I do find time to exercise actually :) I go mall-walking and will be swimming 1 or 2 x during the week soon at my college.
I also have recently gone on a gluten-free eating plan. I cut all sugars and grains out of my diet completely, as well as no fruit for a couple weeks. Been having trouble with yeast in my body and have a strange thing in my breast as well, that I have to go get a mammogram for.
~Laura
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Got my fingers crossed for you, RM. (And thanks for sharing that detailed portrait of your stepfather...you have lived through some STUFF.)
I am having a little scare today although I feel 99% better. For about 40 min. this a.m. I couldn't spell ordinary words or find them in speaking. The left side of my head hurt a little as well as my left eye, etc. My doctor is thinking it's either a TIA (mini stroke) or an atypical migraine (Mom has had those...one put her in the hosp for a week totally incoherent, spouting gibberish).
MOI? Gibberish? :? Anyway I'm not too scared but I have to have an MRI this evening.
Hops (sorry to hop into Draggon's thread but where you'd go?)
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Hops ,
MRI'S ARE NOT FUN.
I do hope you are feeling better soon.
love ,
m
Dragons ,
I know just when I thought I could not go on I have .Where the human spirit gets the strength amazes me.
MoonLight
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Thank you, Moon!
And I've been meaning to tell you how so glad I am that you're healing up, tummy wise.
I hope the arm heals very fast too. It must be frustrating not to be able to paint!
hugs,
Hops PS--I have also LOVED your comments about the cosmos lately. Bells ringing. xxoo
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Hi Dragonsamm,
Just thinking of you and hoping that you'll be back when you are able.
Blessings to you,
Hope
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Thank you for all the responses (again). sometimes I seem to be writing to the Universe in general and don't really expect much response from people. As far as spirituality goes, I am at a place where i have no use for most organized religion, I have a more Eastern Religion type of belief that may be unique in itself. I don't believe the Bible is the single and final Word of God, I believe God speaks to us every day because we all are part of what God is. No single entity out there sitting in judgement, I believe that every soul is a drop of water in the ocean that IS God. We create our existence everyday. Something along the lines of a Cosmic Consciousness. And still, in the midst of this belief in the value of all souls, I find myself to be an invisible drop in that ocean. No value beyond my job as "one of the drops". Cognitively, I know this is skewed thinking, but the emotional side of me feels no connection to the whole. So there's the rub......
I just don't feel like I belong anywhere, that I'm needed anywhere beyond what YOU need from me. I will give anything I can to anyone who needs it, but I don't feel much returning to me. Because I don't know WHO I REALLY AM, I cannot give anything of MYSELF to you. Take what you need, but you don't know a thing about what I need. I grew up with a belief that if a thing is not offered to me specifically, I have no right to ask for it. Indeed, I am WRONG for even wanting something that no one else believes I need. Again, I know cognitively that that is not true. But...........
The phrase "You're doing it wrong" has roots so deep in my life, I cannot begin to unravel it all. I had an abusive, angry father, and an emotionally unavailable, perfectionist mother. Anything a person can DO, I've been told I do it wrong. Including sleeping, breathing, walking, talking, eating, etc...................
This phrase is SO insidious in my life, I struggle with it all the time. It pops up everywhere and undermines my self-esteem, my confidence, my dreams, well, everything.
One of the responses to my posts was a suggestion about joining a support group. I have no physical addictions beyond overeating. I don't smoke, I don't do any drugs (except Ibuprophen for body aches), I drink rarely, and only one or two even then. I don't gamble, I don't spend money way over my head, I don't secretly cut myself, I don't abuse small children, i'm not a sex addict, so tell me WHICH group do you think would even begin to understand why I'm there????
Also, I live in a very rural area, extremely limited resources (I've already been through the local Mental Health Center and back out again.) And how would I ever find the trust that people in one of those groups truly cares about me? I have some kind of an emotional block, I guess. When I make friends with someone at work, even, I have a really difficult time when they quit and don't keep in touch.
I know I am rambling here, but I guess it doesn't matter if one person can make sense of it all. It's never happened before. Maybe I can just get bits from different people.
Maybe not. but writing in my journal has finally become a chore. I've been talking to myself for actually 36 years, doesn't seem to have changed anything. A lot of the time, I still feel like the 14 yo I was when I started. Clueless.
I feel the need to apologize for my darkness. (don't mean to bother you....) even though I know that thats what this forum is for--being truthful.
So, for no one and anyone I'll go way out on a limb:
Sadness
Black raindrops
splash against my window
and drip, slowly drawing
streaks on the glass.
The darkening skies
release these tears
like watercolors.
Opaque and grim,
they slowly cover
everything
with dripping
spatters.
The way a cloud
shadows the sidewalk
on a sunny afternoon,
these black raindrops
obscure the
brilliance
of life.
--S Roemer (dragonsamm)
Thanks for your ears, guys!!
:)
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Welcome back, Dragonsamm :)
And now I don't know what to say except... I hope that you will not find writing here to be a chore. It is good to hear from you again... you've been in my thoughts.
With love,
Hope
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Dragons,
You seem like person with depression. Are you taking antidepressants?
They've been so heloful to me.
Hops
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Hi
Jac, you have said a couple of things that I want to respond to. The act of seeking help when one knows something is wrong, well, I've been doing that for a very long time. I have had 3 counsellors that I became quite comfortable with, trusted them fully, and each one seemed to me to only be listening. I will not discount the value of being heard, but I came out of each of those relationships feeling as if the counsellor simply believed I would figure it out on my own, somehow. While each of them touched me in meaningful ways, I always felt that client/therapist wall that prevented me from feeling the love I need to feel along with being heard and cared about. I just have never felt truly supported by people I can give nothing to (therapists I have to pay in order for them to listen to me). I have been searching for help for a very long time. How can i continue to believe that I will find it after all these years of falling short???
And that takes me to another comment you made about a possible belief that my life cannot changed. I have always (until recently) had an optimistic, imaginative outlook on life. Amongst the years of sadness and depression, I fought the good fight, even to the point of expecting good things to happen to/for/around me. I think I had an expectation of something coming along that would inspire me to some greatness or other. My purpose in life, so-to-speak. Something exciting and perpetually inspiring, something i could sink my teeth into, give myself completely to.
All I can see at this point in time when I look back at my life is that i was living in a fantasy. I wasn't expecting to marry a movie-star, but it only looks as if what I always wanted was nothing but a Hollywood dream. How do I ever trust myself to dream again? If I spent 30 + years believing in a dream that didn't exist, how do I ever know what IS possible now???
I had a good friend once who continually encouraged me to "never settle". Sounds good, but what i want to ask anyone who can answer it is:
What is the difference between "settling" and simply accepting what i CANNOT change?
How do I ever learn the difference between what i can and cannot change????
I'm a little late in getting to that question, I'm afraid. Should have done it at 17. Or 25, at best.
To Hopalong: You mentioned antidepressants. Yes, I took Prozac for several years and it helped me learn to control racing thoughts while I learned from all the books I was reading how to change some of my thought patterns. I stopped taking the drugs when my finances dictated it, and seemed to deal with things pretty well for some time. I think the problem now deals more with the circumstances I've dealt with in the past two years, including 1)my youngest child moving out, leaving me with a quite unexpected case of Empty Nest Syndrome, 2) quitting the second job that allowed me any kind of financial freedom, then 3)losing the remaining job a year later under very stressful circumstances,4) the failure of what appeared to be a promising relationship (after being alone for nearly 10 years), 5) returning to college (with great anticipation after waiting years for the timing to be right) and being bitterly disappointed by the experience (I got the credits, but it left me with a strong resistance to go back), 6)moving 300 miles from two of my kids in order to be closer to friends that i believe are more supportive than any of my family, 7) continued failure to obtain gainful employment in the new location. All of this added to the litany of crap that permeates my every move (thanks to those clueless parents i mentioned in an earlier post), and what else could I have expected than to completely lose myself, my dreams, my belief in a better life???
I don't think drugs are what i need, really.
I need answers. And I have a high expectation that they aren't out there.
Someday I might feel it unnecessary to thank everyone for their responses. But not yet. I still find it surprising every time I come here and see that someone has responded to me. It's a wonderment.............. :)
So, thanks again.
dragonsamm
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Samm, I have the impression that we are alike in many ways. Unfortunately I read this thread last today and have to go to work, but I wanted to let you know that I understood EVERY WORD YOU SAID because you are describing my own life, almost exactly, when you describe what you have been through.
That is not meant to diminish you, or to invalidate you, or to put me in front for attention. It is to say that I know what you mean because I too have lived it.
I'll try to get back here today and give you something of substance, but if I can't manage today, I'll definitely be back some time over the weekend. In the meantime - unglamorous as it seems, endurance is a virtue, and one well worth having, though not for the mere sake of enduring... that's where the twisted legacy of abuse comes in. We learned to endure so much, and were promised a light that has never come, at the end of a darkness we did not create.
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dragonsamm,
First of all, welcome. I can relate to much of your frustration and sadness, and will also be entering that empty nest world alone as of next week when I take my youngest to school. I think we are of similar ages--I am 56--and wondering now what I will do when I grow up. I found my passion in being a wife and mother, but both those jobs are now over for the most part. Everyone tells me I need to find a new passion and follow it. I don't disagree, but sometimes those things aren't readily apparent and I'm not sure which direction to go to find a new passion that is doable at my age. My parents were similar to yours, but are now both dead. I have one brother with whom I have no relationship whatsoever, and absolutely no other family to whom I am close--either physically or emotionally. I moved to where I am now 25 years ago because of my xnh, and obviously have established myself in this community and have friends here. However, most of my closest friends are married and spending much of their time in warmer climates these days, and my children are both in school elsewhere. I do have a wonderful b/f with whom I spend a lot of enjoyable time, but he is really the only reason I have to stay where I am, and it is very scary for me to have all my eggs in his basket.
You are fearful that you cannot change who you are and how you feel about life. I understand this, but maybe you are trying to change too much at once. Perhaps if you just took one small aspect of your life that you would like to change or improve and put all your energy into that, you may start to see some successes which would improve your overall outlook. Sometimes when all we see are the negatives it becomes too overwhelming to find anything positive. It would be similar to the discussion we were having on another thread about housekeeping and clutter. Sometimes the clutter gets so overwhelming that we can't imagine ever getting it sorted out. But if we start with just one table or one closet and get that in order, we can start to see the possibilities of cleaning up the rest. Sometimes we need some professional intervention to help us do the sorting. Maybe you need to consider revisiting that with the attitude that you are going there to seek change and not leave until you see progress.
I don't know if any of this is useful, but I wish you well regardless.
Brigid
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Dear Dragonsamm,
Reading this last post of yours has brought some questions and thoughts to my mind which you may or may not choose to address, of course, but I'll put them out here and see what happens. Just so you know, I don't feel that the time I spend to do this obligates you in any way to respond. I know that what I have to say may be like one of those birthday gifts received and immediately taken back to the store for exchange and if that's the case, no need to acknowledge at all. I'm convinced that (most) everything we put into writing here has the potential to help someone, at some time, even if the person helped is no one else but the writer him/herself.
First, regarding counselors. Fourteen years ago or so, my family was involved with several counselors who tried to help us work through issues relating to sexual abuse issues/my childrens' father. Personally, I had varying levels of trust for each of these individuals, but all were equally detached, as well they need to remain, I'm sure. At the time, I found them all equally maddening because of this attachment. They listened and occasionally offered questions, but never the answers I sought. One woman said to me, "Everything you need to know is already inside of you." This was not at all what I wanted to hear. I wanted someone to tell me what to do, to provide a formula for the restoration of my family (my personal dream) along with a guarantee of success. I believed that if I could just complete a certain sequence of steps, everything would be alright... just tell me what are those steps and I will meet the challenge! Well, I met the challenge, but obviously I couldn't drag anyone along with me on that journey and ultimately my family (my dream) fell apart anyway, despite my best efforts. The falling-apart phase consumed me for a period of 8 years, bringing me to the point of despair, at which time I met the most narcissistically disordered man I have ever known, beginning phase 2 of the destruction of my barely surviving dream. After all of this, I can say along with you:
All I can see at this point in time when I look back at my life is that i was living in a fantasy
From what you've shared here, I gather that your dream began with the finding of a sense of purpose. You envisioned another human being presenting that purpose and giving you opportunity to fulfill it? I did.
Something exciting and perpetually inspiring, something i could sink my teeth into, give myself completely to.
I tried to accomplish this dream via my husband, my children, a career... none of that was sufficient or "faithful" in the sense I'd imagined it should be. In other words, life isn't fair. Imagine that. How dare the universe not comply when I was working so hard to be good and to do well! I understand that you don't accept the Bible as the authority, but I hope you don't mind a couple quotes from the book of Ecclesiastes: All is vanity. And.. "of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh." (I, too, read until I thought my eyes would fall out.) Cognitive understanding can build a databank of information, but getting that knowledge from head to heart is another matter entirely.
In an earlier post, you mentioned the "apparently pointless struggle". This sounds to me like that dark night of the soul which Stormy will possibly address when she can. In my own life, this was the bottoming out which brought me to my knees before God. Don't worry, no sermonizing here. I only want to say that I'm quite sure I'd still be in that blackest of pits if it weren't for His grace and mercy and tender touch on my spirit and heart 2 1/2 years ago. My marriage to a man with NPD left me financially destitute with 3 children still at home. I was stalked day and night by this man who considered me his possession and promptly got myself into an instant relationship with a seemingly very helpful guy who also showed signs of objectifying me. To my eyes, the entire world looked "N" and I only wanted to bail out. On top of all this, I had my own "litany of crap" with N+ish family members encouraging me to relocate back to their state where they could "help" me. No thank you very much... I'd rather stay in my pit alone.
To this: "I need answers. And I have a high expectation that they aren't out there" .... I have an answer:
I think you'll find exactly what you're looking for and if you expect nothing, that's just what you'll get. I did.
I think you know that in your heart, but what you fear most is... to hope. I had that fear and nearly settled for remaining in it. It was at just that moment when God released new hope in me, hence my screen name. I know that I cannot give you hope to own for yourself. I can only tell you that I lost it and then regained it by what I can only say were miraculous means.
You asked: What is the difference between "settling" and simply accepting what i CANNOT change?
The answer, I think, is hope. Hope is the difference. There's an essay (ok, it's more of a sermon) which says it all alot better than I can. "The Triumph of Hope - When Should We Continue to Fight? When Should We Accept Defeat?"
http://nehemiah.gospelcom.net/hope3.htm
I hope that you'll receive this in the spirit in which its offered, Dragonsamm. You see, I don't believe in coincidence and here we both are... and to me it would be a crime to not at least offer you what I have to give, leaving it up to you to unwrap that gift or not. No strings attached, of course. Only alot of hope on my part... for you.
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All I can see at this point in time when I look back at my life is that i was living in a fantasy...How do I ever trust myself to dream again?
Well, you don't...not right now, and that's okay. Trust is something that is earned and developed over time, even with ourselves. We did not have the opportunity when we were little. Now, as adults, we can give ourselves what our parents could not, at least, learn to and grow into over time and through choices. Inner trust will be developed as you take each step toward your own healing.
I understand this part about realizing you've been living in a fantasy. It is an incredible betrayal, a self betrayal that can leave one stunned for a long, long time. It's, also, something that can fill you with a tremendous amount of regrets, as you wake up and realize just what a high cost your fantasy had on others around you, in my case, my children. But even in fantasy, there's some element of truth, and as time goes by, it will be clearer to you what's real and what wasn't.
For now, let yourself grieve. It sounds like this is the state you might be in, and grief and despair are normal reactions. I know, for myself, I needed to grieve, really, deeply grieve. I went from being numb, shocked and stunned to anger to sorrow, despair, depression to being numb, shocked and stunned to anger to sorrow...
It gets better. Truly. You don't have to believe it. You just need to go through it in the cadence that is yours. There's no map, so there's no right way or wrong way to do it.
And dreams are choices on a whole other level. Even when we don't believe in our dreams, they believe in us. It's like the song that finds the singer and the poem the writer. So it's not all on your shoulders.
Have compassion toward yourself. And if you're so sure you don't know what will work, then be less sure of what won't. Healing isn't linear. Just because something didn't work before, doesn't mean it won't be meaningful to where you are now, because you are a different person in a different place. No one stays the same. They either become deeper entrenched or they become lighter, but nothing stands still. That in itself is an illusion. Even those who are frozen can get colder, and those who see themselves encased in ice may actually be thawing.
For me, I've found the works of Thich Nhat Hanh to be most helpful. For all the years of walking my own healing journey, which a good part was trudging through the swamps of my fantasies, being blind to the bog I was knee deep in, because I was mesmorized by the pretty flower blooming off a swamp vine, I've struggled with incredible amounts of rage born of my childhood and the wonderful fallout of dysfunctional dynamics. The simple suggestion to sit still and be with my emotions as they came up, with no judgment - no right way, no wrong way, no right feelings, no wrong feelings, no justification, rationalization or condemnation - they are what they are. To not struggle with them or deny them, but to observe each one and greet them with compassion, as a loving big sister would to her cranky little sister, has totally changed things for me. I, initially felt contempt for this suggestion and disregarded it for a couple years, until my own reality brought me to my knees. Since then, I have experienced a deep sense of peace and healing I never thought was possible. How could I expect such a thing I was not even capable of comprehending?
It was this process that opened me up to the personal awareness that I was a drop of water in the ocean, and the ocean loved me.
And now I know this. I don't know why. I don't know how, and I don't care. Like so much beauty and mystery of life, it just is.
Demian,
~DreamSinger
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There is a lot in this thread, and I want to respond to all, but am limited in time right now. But I will start with dragon since you've started this wonderful thread.
hi dragon.
First of all, welcome.
I have only read to Storm's post, but I want to say that like storm, I know how you feel. You've described almost perfectly and certainly painfully what it is like to be raised without "voice." It is something that any child (now an adult) who's been abused by a parent(s) might feel I imagine, if they could somehow find the strength to emerge from that equally strong coping mechanism called denial. So you are very brave indeed to name it. You are courageous and strong in my eyes. As for finding someone to validate us. I too, struggle with this, so I know how this feels. It has probably been one of the most powerful driving forces in my life - to seek out someone to validate me. I am learning very slowly, sometimes taking steps backward in fact, that this person does not exist externally to me. That person is within me, and it is in fact the child who was never validated that is now an adult. I have to become that person for which I seek. It is difficult - probably the most difficult challenge I've ever faced in my life. But it is so crucial for me to find this strength in order to "thrive." Some might say that it is God within me, that would give me such strength. They might be right about that, I don't know.
I will not discount the value of being heard, but I came out of each of those relationships feeling as if the counsellor simply believed I would figure it out on my own, somehow. While each of them touched me in meaningful ways, I always felt that client/therapist wall that prevented me from feeling the love I need to feel along with being heard and cared about. I just have never felt truly supported by people I can give nothing to (therapists I have to pay in order for them to listen to me). I have been searching for help for a very long time. How can i continue to believe that I will find it after all these years of falling short???
Regarding the above. I know that something that has helped me is to give up the expectation that I would find the above in others I meet.
(((((((((((((((((((((((dragon))))))))))))))))))
p. bean
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So many beautiful words and images to describe something so painful and maddening. I feel lucky to be here and to have access to these gifts that you all are sharing.
Dragonsamm, you are definitely not alone in this. Just let it all sink in. All of these people are telling you the truth. I'm not as far along yet, but have experienced enough of my own miracles and "coincidences" to know that it is possible. Let it all sink in and soon you will be able to see something new. Something will get through, maybe when you least expect it.
Pennyplant
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I will not discount the value of being heard, but I came out of each of those relationships feeling as if the counsellor simply believed I would figure it out on my own, somehow. While each of them touched me in meaningful ways, I always felt that client/therapist wall that prevented me from feeling the love I need to feel along with being heard and cared about. I just have never felt truly supported by people I can give nothing to (therapists I have to pay in order for them to listen to me).
Hello Dragonsamm,
I can sympathise with your empty feeling. It is very hard to feel this way. It almost feels better to experience rage or guilt, or anything to fill in the emptiness. However, please take the time to fill it in with something good and healthy.
I want to comment on your feeling about therapists. A good therapist is someone who has devoted much of his/her life to the pursuit of helping people who need them. They are human and care about some patients and others they do not care for. If you had a good relationship with the therapist, chances are you were among the ones he/she cared for.
The therapist does not know how much is inside you that has to get out before you can start your healing. It would be a mistake to suggest a solution, putting on a band-aid before you cut out all the rot. You yourself may not know how deep the well goes.
Also, consider that the therapist has to preserve his or her ability to be there for you. Any feeling person will be affected by the awful stories people who seek help have to tell. They are all disturbing, and I could not imagine listening to that all day for years on end. If the therapist allows herself to be engulfed, she will not be there for you the next time. Not immersing herself in your issues is not a sign that she does not care. It is a method of self-preservation, and of preventing the therapist's own issues from becoming entertwined with yours. Professional detachment is a good thing, even though it may feel cold to you.
By paying the therapist, you permit that person to have the education to asist you, and to devote the time. It is not the same as paying a friend for friendship.
I hope you can benefit from the therapeutic relationship because it sounds as if you have had good ones. The therapist is not there to love you, even if love feels like your primary need. He is there to help you sort things out, so that you can find, recognise, experience, and give love in your life.
Plucky
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dragonsamm,
Although I am one of the most outspoken people on this message board, I'm going to do my best to be tactful and considerate of your feelings while still stating my points, views, etc....
you said: but I came out of each of those relationships feeling as if the counsellor simply believed I would figure it out on my own, somehow.
This is basically what psychologists and psychiatrists, therapists are trained to do. The only difference was, you "caught" them at it. Usually the clients do not find out about what is actually being done with them, in such a setting, because most people who go to therapists, are there to just vent. This is the God's honest truth. Most people who are clients, just need a sounding board and someone to say "ohhhhhhhh, I see. Ok, mmhmmm" until the client figures out the answers to their own problems. Therapists are strong warned NOT to give answers to their counselees as a matter of fact. They are not there to give you answers, be relied upon for complete direction, nor to become the next codependent relationship in client's lives...they are very guarded against it.
Sooooooooo, that being said, your statement above was exactly correct. They expect you to "talk" yourself back to sanity and wholeness. The only exception to this rule that I know of, is maybe cognitive therapy, where your actions are recorded and the therapist suggests new behaviors to follow in order to bring about a better outcome for the client.
As far as things being hopeless for you, I believe having a relationship with and giving one's life to Jesus is the only answer for heartache, abuse, pain of any kind.
~Laura
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apologies samm, have sprained my hand, cant type very long. it looks as tho many other folks weighed in, in the meantime, to let you know that you're not alone in feeling what you feel... abuse is very isolating and its aftermath is also; it's hard not to be paralyzed by the shame and dread and worst of all the sense of hopelessness.
it isn't hopeless now. i hope the light will dawn for you soon, and the day will be bright and warm...
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Demian,
Such a deep Yes to this:
It gets better. Truly. You don't have to believe it. You just need to go through it in the cadence that is yours.
AND healing not being linear, and Tich Nat Hahn (I love him) and so much else. Sometime, on another thread, I'd be grateful to read how you learned to "sit." Anxiety bedevils me when I try to meditate, so any tips would be wonderful. Or I could stop being lazy and go read him again.Thank you for this, your whole post.
PB: I have to become that person for which I seek. It is difficult - probably the most difficult challenge I've ever faced in my life. But it is so crucial for me to find this strength in order to "thrive."
Me too. Completely and totally me too.
PennyP, I feel lucky to be here too...these are gifts.
And Jac, ditto every word.
Well put, RM! They are not there to give you answers, be relied upon for complete direction, nor to become the next codependent relationship
And along the same lines, bingo, Plucky:
The therapist is not there to love you, even if love feels like your primary need.
Dragaonsamm, like Storm...I do understand how paralysing shame is. I think more even than fear.
And I am very glad you have "Dragon" in your name.
Hops
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Dragonsamm and all in this thread -
Your words are so thought provoking. Dragonsamm, I am 48 have had all the blessings that should have permitted me to live a full and fulfilling life but my experience has been anything but fulfilling. I have no money, a house that is almost falling down around me, have no friends, family that (at best) offers no support, have a 5 year old who is the love of my life but is certainly dependent on me, not good work history and I could go on and on. I have been trying to get at the source of my "dysfunction" for over 20 years but I have not given up.
I believe, (and am acting on this belief) that I can transcend this darkness and get to the place, to the life I once envisioned. I have been reading about brain and mind and have received the concepts of moving toward living on a plain of higher energy. Thich Nhat Hanh writes in "Understaning our Mind" about nuturing the seeds in our consciousness that we want to grow. In part, I am going to nuture those seeds that tell me, against all odds, that I have broken through the walls of paralysis - that I have a job, that I have friends, that I have a nurturing home and on and on. His teachings along with Wayne Dyar's in "The Power of Intention" fit neatly with my Christian philosophy. They provide me with tools to fight the oppression of the shaming binds that were put on me by my FOO. I could not free myself from these shackles because I felt bound to my parents and brothers out of loyalty but also I wanted to BELONG. I wanted that life that I grew up in but also more significantly I NEEDED to connect to those people who were my very life source. The annihilation of my very being began perhaps at birth and has been so incidious perhaps in part because it was not conscious and was not necessarily spoken. I have had to name everything for myself and in my youth, up until recently, when I have tried to elicit validation from friends, family even therapists, I have fallen short.
When you wrote about your struggles with therapists waiting for you to solve your own problems I identified with that. I love my therapist but I have really needed more. When I came upon th concept of NPD via the internet I asked him what he thought. He agreed but his agreement was lackluster enough for me not to feel reassured. Well that's the crux of the matter. Growing up in a family that not only did not nurture but took any and every opportunity to belittle and besmirch me I need more that a nod in order to integrate anything that contradicts my families accepted order. I would have like or my therapist to do a Tom Cruise and jump up on the sofa and shout. Even today, when I am knocking on my own wall of paralyzing shame and getting no nudge I will not let go of my belief that when I convert this low energy shame to high energy something, then these fetters will be loosed. But I am retraining my brain to operate on a new energy level and it will take practise.
There is a marvelous book, "The Mind and The Brain" by a psychiatrist who specializes in OCD. In this book the author focuses on the neuroplasticity of the brain to help OCD by first identifying the obsessive thought as "a misfiring of the brain". And then he works to create a means to get that brain to fire correctly. This book and th other books mentioned above among others are pointing to the same thing. I believe it and I know that I can apply it.
Perhaps the turning point came for me in several months ago when I was reading something on the internet about Narcissistic behavior and in addition to my father I saw myself. And in a flash I knew what had caused me so much struggle in recent years with friends and store clerks, bank tellers, etc. For a moment, in a panic, I feared that I too might be Narcissistic but then I realized my behavior was simply mirroring what I have received. Looking back, it is no surprise that I have lived on a low level energy plain - frustrated about the way things are, unable to see how I ended up where I have, unable to discern the difference between me and those I grew up with, unable to understand where I went wrong, and once life went wrong I was unable to see why I couldn't get back on track. Well first of all, I never was on track and second of all - my heavens - no wonder I lived in such depression - it was all I or my family had ever lived even though, as a child, we had everything you could ever want - materially, socially, educationally - everything: everything except love and support and encouragement. Everything except those wonderful high energy emotions. So now my work for myself, my son and the world around me is to convert all of my depression, all of my fear, all of my doubts to hope and prosperity and fullness of life. And I am going to do it step by step and to the extent available I will receive any encourage offered here and anywhere else.
Dragonsamm - take this journey with me. Convert your doubts and fears by focusing on them with love. Open those recesses of your memories and love that child desparate for encouragement and hope. Pour love on her, conjure in your mind the perfect parents and let them love her and stand betgween her and your real parents. I do that, and it helps. It is slower than I would like but I will not let that deter me. Will you walk with me Dragonsamm?
Your in love - come with me, I'm - Gaining Strength
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Hey, everyone!
Can't tell you how much you have all moved me. I feel so overwhelmed by compassion and understanding that i had to take a few days off and let it all sink in. So many wonderful, touching, beautiful words of encouragement, and more, I am stunned!
One of my favorite authors is Thomas Moore (of Care of the Soul fame). His low-key approach is appealing to me, amidst my headless chicken-speed demon tendencies. Among other writers i am familiar with, I have learned the truth of searching within to find those apparently external things I believe I need. "If I do not go within, I go without" is a favorite quote of mine (I don't know the author). Unfortunately, putting it into practice has more often than not resulted in going into my head, not my heart. My head knows infinitely more than my heart can feel. But one of my deepest issues is in not trusting myself in matters of the heart. Without a trusted guide, I CAN GO NOWHERE near those heart issues. Every self-help book I have read has a bookmark somewhere in the last quarter where I stopped reading, put the book down and never went back. Even with the aid of exercises (which I did faithfully, Dr Phil), there comes a place in every one of these books where I simply CANNOT move any farther. No amount of desire, determination, or dreaming will carry me through that wall. It is as real and solid as granite. I cannot do it alone. And the frustration of that inability is more than defeating. It is devastating.
I have sought counselling and never found anyone who could address this issue. My friends and family simply don't get it. Begins to feel very isolating and maybe, just maybe, I'm simply crazy. I appreciate DreamSinger's words:
Even when we don't believe in our dreams, they believe in us. It's like the song that finds the singer and the poem the writer
That feels so encouraging!! As if I don't have to prove I'm either sane or incapable of movement. However, the act of being unable to move is, in itself--discouraging. Draining.
Another quote I believe is: "When the student is ready, the teacher will come" some Zen-type of writer, I believe. I really do believe it, but I feel I've been waiting a very long time, working overtime even, with so little assistance from the Universe. I know I can only do what i know to do, that things will change in their own time. But after so many many years of attempting to understand, accept, be still, do what i can, etc, I'm feeling very much neglected and forgotten by the Powers that Be. Maybe it's part of growing up in the environment I did that I feel ignored by universe as proof of my being 'undeserving" of what I seek. I know cognitively that deservedness has no place in this argument. But old heart beliefs die slowly.....
I think that if i were to pinpoint my biggest trouble, it is the disconnect between the cognitive and the felt. The head and the heart. So difficult to explain.
I cannot begin to tell everyone of you each and every way your responses have touched me. That would be a week-long job in and of itself. All I can say is
THANKS!!
And a million hugs to all of you!!
~~Dragonsamm~~
ps--tell me why you like my name, Hops! ?
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Hey Dragonsamm - glad to see you!!!
"When the student is ready, the teacher will come" [/i
Listen, I've been looking and waiting for many, many years too. But I think the teacher has been there and I was unable to see. Presently, it is very clear to me that the teacher has come in the guise of a couple of very good books and in this forum. In the past I would have been looking only for a bigger than life person who would take me under his or her wing. I was looking in the wrong place.
About not being able to finish any of the helpful books. I get it. In my case it is a matter of being overwhelmed. Though exactly what is behind the sense of being overwhelmed is not yet fully available to me. But I understand what you are talking about.
Glad to see you back. - Gaiining Strength
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Hi Dragonsamm ,
Years of sadness I well understand.
It is so hard to let go of the shame the sadness the wishing this or that had not happened.
The only way I have found is having compassion for self.The head is too think a dee think and finding
ones heart and giving self compassion is a way that helped me feel better about the world.
If I had the words to take away your sadness I would.All I know is it does get better.
And you are here with all the people on this site wishing you kindness and together we can find our way.
"Even when we don't believe in our dreams they believe in us"
by Dreamsinger that just takes my breath away.
Love to you,
Moonlight
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Dear Dragonsamm,
Unfortunately, putting it into practice has more often than not resulted in going into my head, not my heart.
My head knows infinitely more than my heart can feel.
I am this way. I think that if my heart felt it all at once, it could not survive. Small, steady realizations at that level are all I can take.
No amount of desire, determination, or dreaming will carry me through that wall. It is as real and solid as granite. I cannot do it alone. And the frustration of that inability is more than defeating. It is devastating.
Upon first reading this, I thought... well, what is missing is the WILL to break down that wall and no one else can give us that will. But the will grows out of a hope for something better, I think? And hope is a very frightening entity when there's been so much disappointment. All things considered, this sounds like pure, unadulterated fear to me, and the only remedy I know for that is love.
My friends and family simply don't get it. My theory is that people are afraid to "get it" because then it might "get" them.
I would like to assure you that neither your existence nor your suffering have escaped the notice of the Power that Is.
Grace is not cheap, it's free. One thing I've discovered is that in all my years of reaching and grasping, all I ever had to do was open my clenched fists and receive.
With Love,
Hope
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Hi Dragonsamm,
Because who but someone with a glowing center, a persistent fire for life, would name herself Dragon?
You might be sleeping, tired, battle weary, camoflauged in the woods as a big lump of leaf cover.
But one day, you're going to gather your strength from all the many amazing dreams that dragons can have, and you'll get to your feet and wander on into the woods. You won't worry about whether it's dark, because your dragon instinct is taking over. You'll keep going, step by step.
And you'll reach the edge and you'll see the high blue sky and the gorgeous sunlight and scudding clouds, and sweet breezes will be blowing toward you across a green meadow, and you'll see a high-running stream flashing down below, and birds will swoop around your head unafraid (because they know)...
And you'll let loose a wonderful fire-throwing shout that might look like a roar, but it's really just how dragons say "I'm alive!"
That's why.
Hops
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OMG, Hops!
That was just Awesome!!..
Thank you SOOOO much!
I am framing that letter. I want it to be within view all the time.
what wonderful inspiration!
Thank you for such a gift as this! :D :D :D
~dragonsamm~
p.s. fyi, the tagline on my email for the past few years has been a line from my favorite song . it seems quite appropriate here:
"...a soul in tension that's learning to fly. Condition: grounded, but determined to try..." --Pink Floyd
8) 8)
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Thank you, all who responded (to my surprise, I must say). I really didn't expect much of a response, especially so quickly. It brought tears to my eyes, really. I have spent so many years trying to figure out why I've been unable to have the life I believe in, I might have begun to think it was all a fantasy. But I hear the care and understanding in the responses I got, I just don't have a clue what might be possible....
I am 50 years old, tired of life. I gave birth to 3 beautiful, intelligent children, and I have several brothers and friends that I know care about me. But there has always been a hole in my soul that I cannot fill. I know cognitively how valuable every soul in the universe is...but there is still a voice inside that tells me..."except me". I have been through enough relationships with men that failed at every turn that i have no hope of finding anyone who can even come close to being what I need in a healthy relationship. Or hope that i could be what I need to be within that kind of framework. At the same time, I feel extremely lonely, and know that solitude, while necessary for my soul, is quickly toxic to me when it goes on too long.
My financial situation is dire, with very little hope of change.
I know that Dr Phil would tell me to just get up and move, and something will change. But I've been waiting, trying, reading, listening, praying, crying, writing, talking, for more than 10 years with no improvement. I'm just tired of the fight.
I'm told I have an IQ of 131. What good does it do to be intelligent if one cannot make sense out of one's life?
I have read MANY books by authors such as Neale Donald Walsch, Thomas Moore, Dr Wayne Dyer, Deepak Chopra, M Scott Peck, Ken Wilber, Dr Phil, John Bradshaw, Gary Zukav, Clarissa Estes, Caroline Myss, etc, etc, etc. Every one of them took me to the same place in my heart and soul and dropped me like a rock. I cannot make sense out of an apparently pointless struggle.
I cannot give up, I already know too much. I cannot keep crawling, I'm too tired.
What now??
Just numb myself the best I can, and keep moving. Until a moment arrives when it is all too much and i cry myself to sleep, so I can get up in the morning and do it all again.
My kids are the only things that keep me going. Their father abandoned them, i cannot do that to them, too. They deserve at least one parent who cares about them. I try to be what i can be for them. It's all i seem to have.
I love music. I am a lyric-head, can recite the lyrics to nearly any 70's tune you can name. Love Justin Hayward. He is my angel voice, telling me
"Don't you know that it's not too late, the time's not past...And even though I tell myself, all is lost, somewhere there's a spark of hope.... somehow, the world keeps turning, promising a better day, somewhere the spark is burning away..."
from "It's Not Too Late", LP: The View From the Hill
I don't always believe him, but it's nice to hear..............
But one cannot live on another's music. It's all just part of the fantasy.
Thanks for listening.....i needed that!!
Smile
Hi, dragonsamm.
Like you, I am in a similar boat today so you are not alone.
Bones
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Dragonsamm,
You are so welcome. (And I so believe how I described you.)
Hi Bones,
Now I know you're going to make it. (You just reached out to somebody else who's hurting too.)
A peaceful sleep and fresh dreams to both of you.
Keep on breathing, keep eating, sleeping, walking, talking, getting support...
'night,
Hops
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teartracks, hops,write,and all who have responded to me,
I so appreciate being 'heard'. So many people here have spoken to me on a level i never really knew existed. In my life I heard so many i know what you mean, but you gotta get over it responses that it becomes easy to believe that there is something wrong with me because i seem to feel things no one else understands. (or has patience for)
And I think you can understand my reluctance to jump on the bandwagon of hope any time soon. I hear you words of hope and encouragement and desperately want to believe your words. I once had those beliefs and hope myself. But that is not my reality now. It hurts too much to even hope anymore. I feel like hope has been a cruel joke for 99% of my life. It was never more than a fantasy, what kind of miracle would it take to make me believe NOW?? All I can do is maintain. Barely.
One of the great ironies is that I may very well be turning my back on every possible opportunity. Well, I've tried it every other way I could think of, to no avail . I give up. I've recently realized that I am extremely terrified. My life has no purpose beyond its own survival. I have no prospects for improvement and no hope for any. I am at the mercy of whatever has more power than I.
All the encouragement I have received here is bouyancy to keep me from drowning. I appreciate it greatly. But I fear I am wasting your time and you, too, will walk away sooner or later. Because my attitude is probably toxic. I apologize. I'm just trying to be honest.
Thanks for your ears and hearts :?
~dragonsamm~
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dragonsamm-
I hear you, I am just crawling out of a place that fits your description. Time and time again, over the past five years I have had hope only to fall flat. I isolated and then out of encouragement from my T and psychiatrist made an effort to get out only to get my head chopped off. But this time I am on fairly solid ground. I was right to isolate. I had to work things out myself and open up to find healing in my own way. One thing that came to me was Wayne Dyar's book, "The Power of Intention." It gave me what I needed. I needed to understand why hope was good but how I had unwittingling sabotaged my hope.
His book may not be what you need but I encourage you to hold on to "survival." I had to be there a long time and I am thankful that I could do it. If I hadn't had a little child who had just lost his father I am not sure I would have endured "survival." While there, I encourage you to open your heart to receive your healing _____. When my heart was opened I found a couple of books that helped and then I found this place.
Survival can be good. Hold on the best you can and let some of us hold you up while you flail around trying to get your footing. Let your toxic attitude out here. We can just walk away from it without taking it on. But definitely let it out of you. Don't hold on to that poison.
Glad you are here - Gaining Strength
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Hi Dragonn,
You've been through hell. Now comes the "and back" part.
I'd encourage you to recognize that yes, you may have confused hope and fantasy and expectation. Here's how I'd define them:
Hope is choosing an attitude of openness to the possibility of UNKNOWN good things coming.
Fantasy is distracting yourself from the power of the present moment with scripts for one (since whoever's or whatever's in them won't materialize just because you think about them), when you could be taking ACTIONS (not just thoughts or persistent daydreams) to ease your mind and body and change your direction. Small ones count. (1' X 1' squares! :) )
Expectation is thinking you can force fantasy on reality.
Is it possible you haven't really been hoping, hon?
A book I'd suggest for you (I interviewed the author once and he impressed me a lot) is Learned Optimism, by Martin Seligman.
Hugs,
Hops
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Okay, Dragonsamm,
You are in my thoughts. I identify with so much that you write; with having been hopeful far too many times in the past to risk being hopeful again, with being in dispair ,on the edges of financial disaster. I want to reach you. It's as though in reaching you, I am reaching through you into myself.
I see that you are fed up with HOPE. I see that you are looking for ANY reason to kindle a spark of hope. I see people throwing you a lifeline to kindle that spark but in your pain and despair you are flailing around and almost taking the lifesaver down with you. In order for you to be rescued, you must accept the gift.
OK, I've sufficiently mixed enough metaphors to sink a drowning swimmer. Let me try to untangle myself.
One of the first things taught in Red Cross lifesaving is to not let a drowning person take you under. The easiest person to save is someone who does not fight. Why in the world would anyone drowning fight the rescuer? FEAR! Fear is the great enemy! In some ways it is THE enemy.
Would you be willing to work on overcoming fear? This would not even require you to have hope except maybe the hope of ovecoming fear.
Back to my mixed metaphor. Re: "accepting the gift." My NPD father was not a bad gift giver, but he absolutely could not receive a gift. Even as a young child this left me in agony. Only in recent years have I understood that at Christmas and his birthday I felt so incredibly inadequate. I wanted desparately to give something to him that would please him. Don't we all want people we love to ACCEPT and be pleased with our gifts. It is empoweing to have our gifts received. We feel connected and belonging and supported and all those good things.
When I have my little stories about life with my Ns received, acknowledged and identified with, my life begins to change. This place has really changed my life in just a few weeks. Having my little stories listened to, rather than put down as they have been my entire life, is transforming. Your posts give someting to me. They echo my own despair and fear and agony. When I read your posts, I think, "There is someone else who knows. There is someone else who will be able o really hear me and believe me." And I am so very thankful. Now I want to give back to you - Won't you please take my gift? I'm not asking you to give up your dispair. I'm not asking you to have hope again. I am just asking you to consider letting go of fear. Will you try that?
Come on - at least think about it. Think about looking at my gift. Think about trying it out. It's not as risky as Hoping.
Let me know - I really do care. I'll stand with you and hold your fear. This is not a sacrificial offer. Each time I stand with another sufferer I am strengthened.
Your friend - Gaining Strength