Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board

Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: tony001 on October 20, 2006, 02:37:39 PM

Title: I am a Child of Narcissism
Post by: tony001 on October 20, 2006, 02:37:39 PM: My stepfather is a textbook case of DNP. My mother (biological)has traits of DNP but is nowhere near the level of my stepfather. I always kept my stepfather at arms length after leaving home at 18 years of age very angry with him. I could never put my finger on it but I always felt very uncomfortable around my parents. Very vulnerable almost like a chicken hanging out with foxes.

My son was born 4 years ago and major red flags began going off in my mind. My parents were very interested in "interacting with" and "influencing" my son. I kept them at a distance from him. As you can figure, this caused much tension with my parents. Eventually we had a huge argument where I told them what arrogant know-it-alls they were. This resulted in the last time I have ever spoke with my stepfather. I tried to reconcile with him but he will not. Which I'm actually glad he didn't because I really don't want him in my son's life anyway.

I am working hard to remove narcissitic traits from my own personality as I know they exist.

I am working through Dr. Nina Brown's book "Children of the Self Absorbed" and it is a invaluable tool.

I never realized whata crappy father my stepfather was until I had a child of my own. I never remember him doing any of the things I do with my son. Like getting down on the floor playing with toys, telling me he's proud of me, teaching me to love humanity and help those who need it. Nothing that I value in life and teach my son was taught to me. I was taught that people suck and just want to use you and you should take everything you can from the world and give nothing back.

People often say "I'm surprised you turned out as good as you did.". I guess I am too. Fortunatley my mother was not a Narcissist. But after being married to my stepfather for 30 years she has developed very strong Narcissitic traits.

It's hard to realize that most of what you thought about your parents was just a fantasy.

Anyone else out there have experience with this?
Title: Re: I am a Child of Narcissism
Post by: IamNewtoMe on October 20, 2006, 03:11:10 PM: Hi Tony001,

Welcome! It is so sad that your parents did not give you all the love you deserve. It is such a hard realization to come to grips with, but it sounds like you are doing great with your progress.

I sympathize with much of what you are saying. I started this process after my daughter was born. I had such a hard time with depression and anxiety, I thought it was post-pardom depression. After entering therapy, I realized I was terrified I wouldn't be a good mother, because Nmom didn't give me a good example (she never played with me, cuddled, or did anything for me that didn't have strings attached). I realized that my mom, who had been on a goddess on a pedestal all my life, was actually a monster. What a mind-blowing experience. It rocked my entire world. Now I am learning a lot about parentling my daughter (and myself) from books and friends, and I am trying to learn to trust my instincts.

Figuring out your mom's role in all this too must be confusing. For me, I thought my Dad was a N, like my mom, until I recently realized he is a codependent, enabler, invertedN or something along those lines. He is a puppet for the Ns in his life and he has never figured it out. I now believe that he is even more lonely, lost, and hollow-feeling than I am. I can forgive him, because I feel sorry for him, but my Nmom is another story.

Sorting through it can be painful and confusing, but worth it. Writing all this down is so helpful to me. I hope you find expressing your thoughts and feelings here helpful, too.

I look forward to hearing more about your story when you are ready.
Title: Re: I am a Child of Narcissism
Post by: moonlight52 on October 20, 2006, 03:18:15 PM: Welcome Tony,

You sound like a great parent .Maybe the example your step father set for you was how not to be a parent ?????
Did you realize early on this was not the way to parent or was it when you had your little boy?????

Either way you broke the cycle and are doing all the good things for your boy that is so great.
I received love from my mom and that's what saved me as well.

And I now am seeing n spots in me and learning to change those patterns.
I have read Nina Brown's books They really opened my eyes .

The parental fantasy I call it the phantom parent you know the one you wished existed but does not.
I think I was shocked at first but so many things were answered for me.
So I then could stop blaming myself and finally live my life.There are degree's of NPD .
But I understand losing the fantasy.
Now I even do not blame I am just trying to understand what happened in my life with compassion.

Blessings to your son and to you,

MoonLight
Title: Re: I am a Child of Narcissism
Post by: tony001 on October 20, 2006, 03:28:50 PM: IamNewtoMe-

It sounds like your father may be narcissistic supply for your Nmom. (I already sound like a know-it-all don't I? That is part of my own narcissisism I am trying to overcome.) Narcissists view the people in their lives known as "loved ones" to non-narns as objects to feed their neverending need for admiration and validation. They have no true sense of self so they rely on those around them to provide them with a sense of identity.

The wierdest thing about diagnosing my parents and beginning to understand them is that I cannot confront them with anything I have learned. They would say "Where did you hear that load of b**llsh*t? From a psychiatrist? Did she get her degree out of a Cracker Jack box?" They immediately demean and minimize anyone and everyone in the world. They are the great mentors. The gurus. The holders of all great knowledge. Jesus Christ himself could learn a few things from my parents, they are soooo all-knowing.

If you haven't read "Children of the Self Absorbed" by Nina Brown. I highly recommend it, it has opened so many doors in my mind, and answered so many questions about the big N. For instance, I was always in the dark about "parentification of the child" I never thought of myself as the parent and my parents as the child, until it occured to me. I was always expected to nurture my stepfather's emotions, to make him feel like a father, to make him feel loved. However this was never reciprocated, I was never nurtured emotionally by him. He never had the ability to do this for anyone, even himself.
Title: Re: I am a Child of Narcissism
Post by: tony001 on October 20, 2006, 03:36:17 PM: Thanks Moonlight-

Yes I did have a great example of what not to do as a father. Actually I had two good examples. My biological father killed himself when I was 8 years old. He committed the ultimate act of abandonment. It makes me angry that my stepfather has chosen to ignore me (the silent treatment, the last desparate tool of the control freak) for confronting him. Ns hate to be confronted, to have their grandiosity challenged, they usually respond by withdrawing. I feel I have been abandoned a second time. This causes me anger, I will not let it cause me pain or hurt. I refuse to feel emotions that he is incapable of feeling. However I am in Al-Anon dealing with a recovering alcoholic wife. This is going well and Al-anon is teaching me a lot about letting go of anger and resentment. Being angry at someone is like picking up a hot coal to throw at an enemy, it will burn your hand worse than it will burn them, if it even hits them at all.

A narcissistic trait I notice in myself is that sometimes I will "zone out" when someone is talking to me. I will only be interested in what I wish to tell them and not hear what they are telling me. I'm working on that.

Q:Did you realize early on this was not the way to parent or was it when you had your little boy?????
A:I never gave much thought to parenting until I met my wife and acquired a beautiful, freckled faced, wonderful 5 year old stepdaughter. I never really had to deal with my stepdad's narcissism after I left home because I immediately made efforts to become independent of my parents. I did not depend on them for money. It ALWAYS came with strings attached. (Even now my mother will insist I take some cash to "buy the kids something" I used to argue with her that I didn't want it, but now I accept it out of courtesy to her, and so far it seems to be "string free") Early on in adulthood I placed myself into a position to not rely on my parents for ANYTHING. This allowed me to emotionally insulate and distance myself from them. I had a wonderful, loving superficial relationship with them for years until (drum roll please) THE BIRTH OF MY SON! They were delighted to have the ultimate narcissist's supply come into their lives. I couldn't explain it then because I had no knowledge of NPD but I just could not bring myself to leave my baby alone with them. Nor did I want to be alone with them. There is something VERY, VERY CREEPY about being a 32 year old father of two with his own family being treated like a 15 year old child. Not a good feeling. This is the way I felt when we three were alone together. This is the way they wanted to feel.
Title: Re: I am a Child of Narcissism
Post by: moonlight52 on October 20, 2006, 04:23:10 PM: Tony

I am so sorry that you experienced the lost of your father so young and the way in which that happened.
Well I would have to say after experiencing sudden loss at age 27 I know this hurts so much and takes a long time to get balance.
I do not want to minimize that these issues have stages.
And the one hardest for me was anger I just was so afraid of letting myself feel it.

Stromchild has a logo someting like you got to go trough it not around it.I have let myself feel the feelings instead of running from them or pushing them down.
It is wonderful you are looking at these experiences and taking them on.I know what you mean about confronting N's never gets the results you wish for .
I just can not stand to be manipulated any more.
Drum roll please They need a parade..............................

Tony I am so happy you are a great dad that's what is important and whether or not they see you as an adult and grown man is really their trip.
But I can see it's not good for your son .A child needs to see the grandparents respecting the parent etc.
Sounds like you understand a lot wow I wish I had a clue at your age.

Much love to you Tony and welcome again.

moon
Title: Re: I am a Child of Narcissism
Post by: October on October 20, 2006, 06:12:48 PM: Quote from: tony001 on October 20, 2006, 03:28:50 PM

It sounds like your father may be narcissistic supply for your Nmom. (I already sound like a know-it-all don't I? That is part of my own narcissisism I am trying to overcome.)

Hiya Tony. I just wanted to say, that people who think they are going insane generally are not, because those who are insane tend not to realise it. And the same goes for narcissists. A true N will never have self doubt, and never use self condemning language about their own words, because their words are always true, always useful and always to be greeted by mere mortals as pearls of wisdom. Even if only talking about how late the bus was this morning.

The second point is that a certain amount of narcissism is healthy, and helps us to maintain a stable self image, and a sense of self worth. It is what prevents us accepting being treated like a doormat. If we do not have this healthy level, we have problems. :(

If you state something with confidence here, it does not make you narcissistic. It makes you a person who is willing to contribute to the healing of another person; someone you have never even met. This is an act of love, as well as an act of self care, because by giving love we also receive love in return. But I don't see any of the Ns in my life able to make this kind of exchange. They don't do delayed gratification, and they don't do altruism. All they do is stare into the mirror of their own tortured soul, while screaming, 'what about me!'.
Title: Re: I am a Child of Narcissism
Post by: Lily_ on October 20, 2006, 08:31:15 PM: Hi Tony,

I too recently realized that my parents are Ns - my father is the more destructive one, but neither are tolerable. Like many of us here, I was the parentified child, responsible for their emotions and had to nurture them, but I can't remember having ever been nurtured myself. And despite it all, I loved them more than anything.

The most difficult thing for me when I realized what I grew up with (just two months ago), was reconciling what I believed to be true and what I know to be true. At first the memories from my childhood wouldn't stop popping into my head and I saw the events of my life and my parents without the BS. And it made me hugely angry. I was duped and worse yet, I knew I'd never be able to confront them they way in which normal people confront each other.

And as for that "people suck" quote - man, I've heard that one a million times over from my Ndad. His version: "Don't trust anyone. They'll step on you the first moment they can." And my favorite, "There's no such thing as friends".

There are such things as friends. And here I've found so many.

Hugs,
Lily
Title: Re: I am a Child of Narcissism
Post by: tony001 on October 20, 2006, 08:44:51 PM: There were many things my stepfather tried to teach me that I somehow knew were wrong. Like he wanted me to call black people "n***ers" (you know, the other N word) I am so afraid he will try to teach my son this. My stepdad can quote Hitler in German I think the quote he says is something like "kill the Jews". He idolizes Hitler, I idolize Oscar Schindler.

This man is not sane. He thinks he has it all together, so much more so than other people. He has accomplished a great deal in his field. He is a 4th degree black belt in a particular style of martial arts and an acclaimed authority on the subject. But there is a saying: "No man is a success that is a failure in the home."
Title: Re: I am a Child of Narcissism
Post by: Hopalong on October 21, 2006, 01:44:08 AM: Dear Tony,

Welcome, I'm glad you're here.
It may be difficult to carry through but your son matters more than anything, and this, on its own, even without anything else, is imho--ample reason to remove your family from this man's life. You do not OWE this person time with your son and your fear of how his bigotry may warp your beloved son is well-founded.

Stand up for your son. BE the father and do not let this man pollute him, please!

Means nothing that this jerk has the "step-father" role...you are writing the play in your own family's life and your son's development and psychological safety matter most.

I'm being awfully direct, but do those thoughts ring any bells?

Hopalong

You're the director! Toss that chump off the stage!
Title: Re: I am a Child of Narcissism
Post by: tony001 on October 21, 2006, 07:03:43 AM: I'm happy that I found this site, I've already got some great comments and some good advice as well. Forgive me if I don't express gratitude exclusively to any specific posters as I feel you all are very important.

I think back on my life and I was subjected to some pretty disturbing scenarios, nothing as horrible as physical or sexual abuse but rather emotional and passive abuse.

When I was about 5 years old we had this cat that my stepfather didn't like. I used to love playing with the cat. He took the cat to a tall bridge over a river and threw it off the bridge. Then over the years he loved to tell the story about how the cat smacked the water and started to swim for shore. About that same time in my life I got a dog for Christmas, a puppy. The dog pooped in the house. So my stepdad, using a technique for housetraining dogs he learned from an Army friend, fed the dog his own poop with a spoon, I still remember vividly the turd hanging out of this poor dog's mouth. The dog mysteriously disappeared after that.

These are just a few of the "fun" moments from my childhood. I'll post more as they come to me.
Title: Re: I am a Child of Narcissism
Post by: Hopalong on October 21, 2006, 09:56:48 AM: Your stepfather is psychopathic.

I hope you will not expose your child to five more minutes of him.

YOUR SON DOES NOT DESERVE TO GO THROUGH WHAT YOU WENT THROUGH, AND YOU CAN STOP IT.

(You didn't deserve it, either. I am so sorry you went through that, Tony. No child should. Nor any cat nor dog.)

Meanwhile, you get out of the past and see your boy and get him AWAY from that a**hole.

'Kay?

A bossy,
Hops
Title: Re: I am a Child of Narcissism
Post by: tony001 on October 21, 2006, 10:25:40 AM: Quote from: Hopalong on October 21, 2006, 09:56:48 AM
Your stepfather is psychopathic.

I hope you will not expose your child to five more minutes of him.

YOUR SON DOES NOT DESERVE TO GO THROUGH WHAT YOU WENT THROUGH, AND YOU CAN STOP IT.

(You didn't deserve it, either. I am so sorry you went through that, Tony. No child should. Nor any cat nor dog.)

Meanwhile, you get out of the past and see your boy and get him AWAY from that a**hole.

'Kay?

A bossy,
Hops

But what are you really trying to say Hops? :lol: JK!

Yeah he's pretty disturbed when it comes right down to it. But to talk to him he would convince you that he's one of the most "together" people in the world. But Ted Bundy had everyone convinced of that too.

Another memory I have is from when I was about 8 years old. My parents were in graduate school and we were a a college party. There was a woman there who was geting a degree in child psychology. Well my stepfather thought it would be funny to blow this woman's mind so he told me this: "That woman only wants to talk to you because she thinks you are a little lab rat (test subject) tell her you want to get naked." Now I was never sexually abused but that may qualify to some extent.

I never had normal boundaries when I was a child. My parents (and I have to include my Mom because she let this happen) let me drink alcohol starting around age 10. They smoked marijuanna in front of me starting at age 5. Allowing me to smoke pot with them at age 17. I no longer smoke or drink and am very health conscious today. They allowed me to get a subsciption to National Lampoon magazine at age 10. This magazine contains nudity and adult humour. My stepdad claimed it was a "new" approach to parenting that allowed me freedom of choice. He beleived he had all the answers when it came to parenting. I think he was full of sh*t!

I agree with you Hops that his contact with stepdad should be cut, but I'm in a dilemna that I want a relationship with my mother and therefore contact with stepdad will come with the territory. I talked about this with a counselor, she said that my influence over my son would always be far greater than any limited influence stepdad may have over him and that she saw little harm in limited contact. Fortunately stepdad likes to play the martyr and withdraws if he doesn't get total respect and attention.
Title: Re: I am a Child of Narcissism
Post by: dandylife on October 21, 2006, 11:33:36 AM: "A narcissistic trait I notice in myself is that sometimes I will "zone out" when someone is talking to me. I will only be interested in what I wish to tell them and not hear what they are telling me. I'm working on that."

Actually, this is a common phenomena that happens to people who've been abused. Most commonly you'll see it in someone embroiled in a "fight" or argument. They will suddenly zone out and become very quiet. Perhaps this is what you are experiencing?

dandylife
Title: Re: I am a Child of Narcissism
Post by: tony001 on October 21, 2006, 12:14:11 PM: Quote from: dandylife on October 21, 2006, 11:33:36 AM
"A narcissistic trait I notice in myself is that sometimes I will "zone out" when someone is talking to me. I will only be interested in what I wish to tell them and not hear what they are telling me. I'm working on that."

Actually, this is a common phenomena that happens to people who've been abused. Most commonly you'll see it in someone embroiled in a "fight" or argument. They will suddenly zone out and become very quiet. Perhaps this is what you are experiencing?

dandylife

Usually in an argument I'm pretty good about listening. My zoning out usually takes place during casual conversation. Good Point though.
Title: Re: I am a Child of Narcissism
Post by: SilverLining on October 21, 2006, 01:00:54 PM: Quote from: tony001 on October 20, 2006, 02:37:39 PM
I never realized whata crappy father my stepfather was until I had a child of my own. I never remember him doing any of the things I do with my son. Like getting down on the floor playing with toys, telling me he's proud of me, teaching me to love humanity and help those who need it. Nothing that I value in life and teach my son was taught to me. I was taught that people suck and just want to use you and you should take everything you can from the world and give nothing back.

Hi Tony. This all sounds pretty familiar to me. Only in the last few months have I realized my N/autistic father never taught me a single thing. Our interactions consisted of him doing know it all monologues and countering much of what I had to say. Then when I was in my twenties I started getting a series of weird "fatherly" letters which explained his philosophies of life and so forth. He isn't comfortable interacting with real people, so as soon as I left the house he felt free to start a fantasy relationship via the mail. It works great for him, as long as I don't expect a real reciprocal relationship.

I don't have children of my own, but observing how other parents interact with their children is one of the things which woke me up. It actually came as something of a shock to see people treat their children as separate human beings worthy of respect.

I also found the "Children of the Self Absorbed" book to be very helpful.
Title: Re: I am a Child of Narcissism
Post by: reallyME on October 23, 2006, 02:49:18 PM: the "zone out" thing you mentioned, Tony, happened to me when I stayed 6 weeks with Jodi (former spiritual "mentor"). When I began confronting her about how she talked down to her daughter to a point that the girl FEARED her, and when I began questioning why Jodi seemed never truly happy and always wanted more, and why when her mother came over, the world STOPPED and everyone catered to her like she was the Queen, and why she would not come near me after she asked me if I thought she had an issue with affection and I told her "yes I do"...after all that, Jodi zoned out on me...it made me feel like I stopped existing. Then when her mother came over, she would be talking to her about things and say to me "right Laura? Didn't I do that?" as if she and I had been talking all along, yet when that door closed and her mother was gone, Jodi would flip right back into zone-out mode, ignoring me, till I GOT IN HER FACE AND DEMANDED TO KNOW WHAT THE PROBLEM WAS...then she'd just shrug with this sort of aloof stare, saying "nothin, why what could be wrong?"

It was the STRANGEST, MOST- DISTURBING THING I have EVER experienced in my ENTIRE LIFE! N's are something just not from this plane of existence. Indescribable for sure!

Please, Tony, do yourself and especially your son a favor...keep him the H*** away from any and ALL N's!!!!

~Laura
Title: Re: I am a Child of Narcissism
Post by: condeezi on October 23, 2006, 06:25:04 PM: dear tony, take delight in your child (i realized how hard it is sometimes to feel feelings when my parents seemed not to and didn't express them towards me except anger and disappointment) remind yourself that you are learning and you will be a great parent - i always try to remind myself that at least i have learned what not to do from my parents. i try to think that out of their failures i have learned. life should always be a learning process and we should always strive to better. do not be afraid of failure - your awareness of your fear of it and your experience of your parent's failures makes you a better person who is trying to grow. we need more people who question themselves (not to the point of being paralyzed) but in order to grow. good look - i am so happy that you are concerned about being a good parent. many aren't.
Title: Re: I am a Child of Narcissism
Post by: tony001 on October 25, 2006, 08:30:26 AM: I am making great progress I feel in identifying my unhealthy narcissistic traits. I realized that I began diminishing them as soon as I was out of the house away from my parents at 17 years old. I love my children more than anything on earth and my most important goal in my life is to give my son a father who really loves him and expresses it openly and honestly. ( I almost said "to give my son the father I never had, but that sounds rather self-serving) I recognize that I engage in self-depreciating behaviours, like it's hard for me to take a compliment, so I recognize this and smile and say "thank you". Whenever someone compliments me I always think about what was left undone or how my accomplishment could have been better. In essence I minimize myself. I used to deal with this lack of self esteem by having a grandiose facade, I used to fancy myself a famous artist and up and coming rock star. A lot of people bought into it, until I grew up a little and realized how ridiculous I was being.

I'm working on giving up the fantasy perceptions of my parents and seeing them for who they really are. This I feel, is really starting to piss them off. But that anger is there's not mine. I refuse to have any part of their negativity. They will not project it on to me again.

I am strong. I am here. And I am growing every day. Life is good and so am I.
Title: Re: I am a Child of Narcissism
Post by: Portia on October 25, 2006, 08:39:26 AM: I've been reading you. You sound good Tony. :D Unasked for opinion coming up:

I'm working on giving up the fantasy perceptions of my parents and seeing them for who they really are. This I feel, is really starting to piss them off.

Just a thought: you can see them for who they really are – do they have to know that your perceptions have changed? Do you want any type of relationship with them? If so (I keep a very distant relationship with both of mine) then you may want to choose to keep your thoughts and feelings to yourself. They don’t have to know. If that feels too false, then you may want to separate yourself from them completely and not see them.

But that anger is there's not mine. I refuse to have any part of their negativity. They will not project it on to me again.

If they get angry with you, it’s because they feel threatened. You can refuse to accept their anger, but they’ll still be angry if you give them cause to feel angry as they see it. It may not be ‘right’, but they ain’t right anyway! :?

I am strong. I am here. And I am growing every day. Life is good and so am I.

:D :D :D :D 8)
Title: Re: I am a Child of Narcissism
Post by: tony001 on October 25, 2006, 08:48:29 AM: Quote from: Portia on October 25, 2006, 08:39:26 AM
I've been reading you. You sound good Tony. :D Unasked for opinion coming up:

I'm working on giving up the fantasy perceptions of my parents and seeing them for who they really are. This I feel, is really starting to piss them off.

Just a thought: you can see them for who they really are – do they have to know that your perceptions have changed? Do you want any type of relationship with them? If so (I keep a very distant relationship with both of mine) then you may want to choose to keep your thoughts and feelings to yourself. They don’t have to know. If that feels too false, then you may want to separate yourself from them completely and not see them.

But that anger is there's not mine. I refuse to have any part of their negativity. They will not project it on to me again.

If they get angry with you, it’s because they feel threatened. You can refuse to accept their anger, but they’ll still be angry if you give them cause to feel angry as they see it. It may not be ‘right’, but they ain’t right anyway! :?

I am strong. I am here. And I am growing every day. Life is good and so am I.

:D :D :D :D 8)

I don't plan on sharing any of my newly found ideas with my parents. The idea of giving up my fantasy was given to me by the book "Children of teh Self-Absorbed" I am following Nina's advice. She said that to try to talk to the N about how they have hurt you, what yu have learned about them will be absolutely futile. They will not have a clue what you are talking about. They will never see that they are wrong. I am not so sure that I really want any type of relationship with my stepfather but I very much want a relationship with my mother. I may have to tolerate my stepdad in order to have a realtionship with my mom. I wish she could give up her fantasy of the three of us being "the perfect little family" because it is so untrue. I feel that until she gives up her fantasy it will only cause her pain.

I know that they will be angry. They probably feel very threatened. And I know that I have hell to pay, but when that bill from hell comes in the mail, I'm sticking it in the trash with the rest of the junk mail.

My parents said that me keeping my son distant from them is hurting them becasue they want to be the kind of grandparents that "interact" with their grandchildren. What they meen by "interact" is to mold, manipulate, and project their image upon.
Title: Re: I am a Child of Narcissism
Post by: adrift on October 25, 2006, 09:03:13 AM: Quote from: tony001 on October 21, 2006, 07:03:43 AM
I'm happy that I found this site, I've already got some great comments and some good advice as well. Forgive me if I don't express gratitude exclusively to any specific posters as I feel you all are very important.

I think back on my life and I was subjected to some pretty disturbing scenarios, nothing as horrible as physical or sexual abuse but rather emotional and passive abuse.

When I was about 5 years old we had this cat that my stepfather didn't like. I used to love playing with the cat. He took the cat to a tall bridge over a river and threw it off the bridge. Then over the years he loved to tell the story about how the cat smacked the water and started to swim for shore. About that same time in my life I got a dog for Christmas, a puppy. The dog pooped in the house. So my stepdad, using a technique for housetraining dogs he learned from an Army friend, fed the dog his own poop with a spoon, I still remember vividly the turd hanging out of this poor dog's mouth. The dog mysteriously disappeared after that.

These are just a few of the "fun" moments from my childhood. I'll post more as they come to me.

(((((((((((Tony)))))))))))))
Yes, those are disturbing scenarios, very disturbing! I'm so sorry for what you went through. You are right to stay away from your step-dad and also to keep your family away from him. He's terribly sick.
Title: Re: I am a Child of Narcissism
Post by: Portia on October 25, 2006, 09:49:39 AM: Hi again Tony

I think I misunderstood when you said:

I'm working on giving up the fantasy perceptions of my parents and seeing them for who they really are. This I feel, is really starting to piss them off.

I think what’s pissing them off is your last show-down with stepdad and keeping your son away from them? In other words yes, you being ‘real’ is going to piss them off! But not because of you, because they’re not getting what they want. Because their ‘needs’ are not being met. Sick.

I wish she could give up her fantasy of the three of us being "the perfect little family" because it is so untrue. I feel that until she gives up her fantasy it will only cause her pain.

I wished my stepfather out of my life and my mother’s life. He was a control-freak one-man-cult who wanted my love and respect. He died. Good I thought, mum can do what she likes now and not have to pretend or suffer him. She did what she liked and it didn’t involve me at all and I expected her to want to get to know me better. I was wrong. It takes two to keep a sick relationship going and she was half of that relationship.

My experience is not yours I know. Your mother has her fantasy because she chooses to. She chooses to stay with your stepfather. Does her fantasy give her pain, or is it you that really feels the pain of those lies? Her denial serves a purpose, it keeps her head together. If she gives it up, she might have to admit what a jerk your stepfather is and I don’t see that happening soon?

hurting them becasue they want to be the kind of grandparents that "interact" with their grandchildren.

Hurting them! :x They don’t think I suppose about your son’s feelings or well-being? Of course not, it’s all about them and their needs. Interact! Tony, people who talk like this have no idea what love is, what compassion is, what relationships are about. You don’t have to think that your mother is suffering in the relationship she’s in. She chooses it. Please look after yourself (((((((Tony))))))
Title: Re: I am a Child of Narcissism
Post by: Jynna on October 25, 2006, 10:28:27 AM: Tony,

I'm new here and this thread is helping me soooo much, so thank you for it. I can relate to so much of what you're saying.

I didn't get that my parents were Narcissists until I had kids myself. I didn't understand how much I missed out on until I saw how much my kids needed from me and how much I WANTED to give them. So different from my parents who constantly reminded us kids what a burden we were to them and how grateful we should be to them for taking us in.

I want to say that you are wise not to share your new found knowledge with your parents. My parents confronted me about my new limits on their contact with my kids. They showed up at my house and demanded to know why I was acting "this way". My kids were playing in the basement, so they didn't know what was going on and I was stuck. The response I gave them was that I felt they didn't respect me. I could go on and on about this conversation, it lasted 45 minutes and was very ugly. Nina Brown could not be more right---it was pointless to try to show them how their behavior affects others. They (of course) could not care less.

Anyway, I will say that the positive part of having "The Conversation" (that's how my hubby, therapist and I refer to it) is that it shattered my denial. I was still holding on to the hope that they could change and still thinking they weren't really narcissists, that I was the one who was not understanding and giving enough. The Conversation woke me up.

Good luck on this journey, reading posts on this site helps me make it between therapy sessions. I still have doubts about whether everything is all my fault and this helps me to keep that old thinking in check.
Title: Re: I am a Child of Narcissism
Post by: tony001 on October 25, 2006, 11:11:10 AM: Thank you so much for the replies, you all have said things that are really helping me understand my dilemna. Bless you all.

I have this wierd feeling that a part of my parents problem is that they realize (maybe this isn't possible) they didn't give a whole lot when I was a child, so they are trying to "make up for it" in my adulthood (I'm 36). But instead of doing healthy things to foster our relationship, they become overbearing, possessive and manipulative in their attempts to "help". For instance, they are doing very well financially. When I was a child they were dirt poor, I never had a lot of material things I saw other kids with. (BMX bikes, NIKE shoes, a car at sixteen, designer jeans, etc.) But I don't hold that against them, my value system shuns materialism. But over the past few years they have given me outrageous birthday and Christmas gifts. I got a $900.00 guitar for Christmas and an $800.00 handgun for my birthday. These lavish gifts made my wife and I very uncomfortable as I could practically see the strings attached to them. My mother is constantly bringing up "my inheritance", I could care less if they leave me anything, the price is just too high. All of the artwork I did in art school is framed and hanging on THEIR walls. My mother always talks about the little poems and writings I did that SHE has saved away in a box. I's like to tell her that when they die I don't want their money, they can give it to charity or leave it to their dogs (their favorite friends BTW) I just want my artwork and poems left to me, in other words, "Mom, when you die, can I have ME? Will you leave me ME?"
Title: Re: I am a Child of Narcissism
Post by: Portia on October 25, 2006, 11:50:03 AM: Tony they’re not trying to make up for it, they’re trying to buy affection and look good, image is everything. And they’re trying to use money and stuff to control you (be nice to us and you’ll get the inheritance). Doesn’t it suck? Yes it does. :(

But you have your own values and they don't include the lure of filthy money - good! :D
Title: Re: I am a Child of Narcissism
Post by: reallyME on October 25, 2006, 02:59:21 PM: PORTIA:
Quote
Tony they’re not trying to make up for it, they’re trying to buy affection and look good, image is everything. And they’re trying to use money and stuff to control you (be nice to us and you’ll get the inheritance). Doesn’t it suck? Yes it does.

But you have your own values and they don't include the lure of filthy money - good!

AMENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!