I am a Child of Narcissism

[SilverLining]

I never realized whata crappy father my stepfather was until I had a child of my own. I never remember him doing any of the things I do with my son. Like getting down on the floor playing with toys, telling me he's proud of me, teaching me to love humanity and help those who need it. Nothing that I value in life and teach my son was taught to me. I was taught that people suck and just want to use you and you should take everything you can from the world and give nothing back.

Hi Tony.  This all sounds pretty familiar to me.  Only in the last few months have I realized my N/autistic father never taught me a single thing.   Our interactions consisted of him doing know it all monologues and countering much of what I had to say.  Then when I was in my twenties I started getting a series of weird "fatherly" letters which explained his philosophies of life and so forth.  He isn't comfortable interacting with real people, so as soon as I left the house he felt free to start a fantasy relationship via the mail.  It works great for him, as long as I don't expect a real reciprocal relationship.   

 I don't have children of my own, but observing how other parents interact with their children is one of the things which woke me up.  It actually came as something of a shock to see people treat their children as separate human beings worthy of respect. 

I also found the "Children of the Self Absorbed" book to be very helpful.

 

[reallyME]

the "zone out" thing you mentioned, Tony, happened to me when I stayed 6 weeks with Jodi (former spiritual "mentor").  When I began confronting her about how she talked down to her daughter to a point that the girl FEARED her, and when I began questioning why Jodi seemed never truly happy and always wanted more, and why when her mother came over, the world STOPPED and everyone catered to her like she was the Queen, and why she would not come near me after she asked me if I thought she had an issue with affection and I told her "yes I do"...after all that, Jodi zoned out on me...it made me feel like I stopped existing. Then when her mother came over, she would be talking to her about things and say to me "right Laura?  Didn't I do that?"  as if she and I had been talking all along, yet when that door closed and her mother was gone, Jodi would flip right back into zone-out mode, ignoring me, till I GOT IN HER FACE AND DEMANDED TO KNOW WHAT THE PROBLEM WAS...then she'd just shrug with this sort of aloof stare, saying "nothin, why what could be wrong?"

It was the STRANGEST, MOST- DISTURBING THING I have EVER experienced in my ENTIRE LIFE!  N's are something just not from this plane of existence.  Indescribable for sure!

Please, Tony, do yourself and especially your son a favor...keep him the H*** away from any and ALL N's!!!!

~Laura

[condeezi]

dear tony, take delight in your child (i realized how hard it is sometimes to feel feelings when my parents seemed not to and didn't express them towards me except anger and disappointment)  remind yourself that you are learning and you will be a great parent - i always try to remind myself that at least i have learned what not to do from my parents. i try to think that out of their failures i have learned. life should always be a learning process and we should always strive to better. do not be afraid of failure - your awareness of your fear of it and your experience of your parent's failures makes you a better person who is trying to grow. we need more people who question themselves (not to the point of being paralyzed) but in order to grow.  good look - i am so happy that you are concerned about being a good parent.  many aren't.

[tony001]

I am making great progress I feel in identifying my unhealthy narcissistic traits. I realized that I began diminishing them as soon as I was out of the house away from my parents at 17 years old. I love my children more than anything on earth and my most important goal in my life is to give my son a father who really loves him and expresses it openly and honestly. ( I almost said "to give my son the father I never had, but that sounds rather self-serving) I recognize that I engage in self-depreciating behaviours, like it's hard for me to take a compliment, so I recognize this and smile and say "thank you". Whenever someone compliments me I always think about what was left undone or how my accomplishment could have been better. In essence I minimize myself. I used to deal with this lack of self esteem by having a grandiose facade, I used to fancy myself a famous artist and up and coming rock star. A lot of people bought into it, until I grew up a little and realized how ridiculous I was being.

I'm working on giving up the fantasy perceptions of my parents and seeing them for who they really are. This I feel, is really starting to piss them off. But that anger is there's not mine. I refuse to have any part of their negativity. They will not project it on to me again.

I am strong. I am here. And I am growing every day. Life is good and so am I.

[Portia]

I've been reading you. You sound good Tony. Unasked for opinion coming up:

I'm working on giving up the fantasy perceptions of my parents and seeing them for who they really are. This I feel, is really starting to piss them off.

Just a thought: you can see them for who they really are – do they have to know that your perceptions have changed? Do you want any type of relationship with them? If so (I keep a very distant relationship with both of mine) then you may want to choose to keep your thoughts and feelings to yourself. They don’t have to know. If that feels too false, then you may want to separate yourself from them completely and not see them.

But that anger is there's not mine. I refuse to have any part of their negativity. They will not project it on to me again.

If they get angry with you, it’s because they feel threatened. You can refuse to accept their anger, but they’ll still be angry if you give them cause to feel angry as they see it. It may not be ‘right’, but they ain’t right anyway!

I am strong. I am here. And I am growing every day. Life is good and so am I.

 

[tony001]

I've been reading you. You sound good Tony. Unasked for opinion coming up:

I'm working on giving up the fantasy perceptions of my parents and seeing them for who they really are. This I feel, is really starting to piss them off.

Just a thought: you can see them for who they really are – do they have to know that your perceptions have changed? Do you want any type of relationship with them? If so (I keep a very distant relationship with both of mine) then you may want to choose to keep your thoughts and feelings to yourself. They don’t have to know. If that feels too false, then you may want to separate yourself from them completely and not see them.

But that anger is there's not mine. I refuse to have any part of their negativity. They will not project it on to me again.



If they get angry with you, it’s because they feel threatened. You can refuse to accept their anger, but they’ll still be angry if you give them cause to feel angry as they see it. It may not be ‘right’, but they ain’t right anyway!

I am strong. I am here. And I am growing every day. Life is good and so am I.

 

I don't plan on sharing any of my newly found ideas with my parents. The idea of giving up my fantasy was given to me by the book "Children of teh Self-Absorbed" I am following Nina's advice. She said that to try to talk to the N about how they have hurt you, what yu have learned about them will be absolutely futile. They will not have a clue what you are talking about. They will never see that they are wrong. I am not so sure that I really want any type of relationship with my stepfather but I very much want a relationship with my mother. I may have to tolerate my stepdad in order to have a realtionship with my mom. I wish she could give up her fantasy of the three of us being "the perfect little family" because it is so untrue. I feel that until she gives up her fantasy it will only cause her pain.

I know that they will be angry. They probably feel very threatened. And I know that I have hell to pay, but when that bill from hell comes in the mail, I'm sticking it in the trash with the rest of the junk mail.

My parents said that me keeping my son distant from them is hurting them becasue they want to be the kind of grandparents that "interact" with their grandchildren. What they meen by "interact" is to mold, manipulate, and project their image upon.

[adrift]

I'm happy that I found this site, I've already got some great comments and some good advice as well. Forgive me if I don't express gratitude exclusively to any specific posters as I feel you all are very important.

I think back on my life and I was subjected to some pretty disturbing scenarios, nothing as horrible as physical or sexual abuse but rather emotional and passive abuse.

When I was about 5 years old we had this cat that my stepfather didn't like. I used to love playing with the cat. He took the cat to a tall bridge over a river and threw it off the bridge. Then over the years he loved to tell the story about how the cat smacked the water and started to swim for shore. About that same time in my life I got a dog for Christmas, a puppy. The dog pooped in the house. So my stepdad, using a technique for housetraining dogs he learned from an Army friend, fed the dog his own poop with a spoon, I still remember vividly the turd hanging out of this poor dog's mouth. The dog mysteriously disappeared after that.

These are just a few of the "fun" moments from my childhood. I'll post more as they come to me.

(((((((((((Tony)))))))))))))
Yes, those are disturbing scenarios, very disturbing!  I'm so sorry for what you went through.  You are right to stay away from your step-dad and also to keep your family away from him.  He's terribly sick.

[Portia]

Hi again Tony

I think I misunderstood when you said:

I'm working on giving up the fantasy perceptions of my parents and seeing them for who they really are. This I feel, is really starting to piss them off.

I think what’s pissing them off is your last show-down with stepdad and keeping your son away from them? In other words yes, you being ‘real’ is going to piss them off! But not because of you, because they’re not getting what they want. Because their ‘needs’ are not being met. Sick.

I wish she could give up her fantasy of the three of us being "the perfect little family" because it is so untrue. I feel that until she gives up her fantasy it will only cause her pain.

I wished my stepfather out of my life and my mother’s life. He was a control-freak one-man-cult who wanted my love and respect. He died. Good I thought, mum can do what she likes now and not have to pretend or suffer him. She did what she liked and it didn’t involve me at all and I expected her to want to get to know me better. I was wrong. It takes two to keep a sick relationship going and she was half of that relationship.

My experience is not yours I know. Your mother has her fantasy because she chooses to. She chooses to stay with your stepfather. Does her fantasy give her pain, or is it you that really feels the pain of those lies? Her denial serves a purpose, it keeps her head together. If she gives it up, she might have to admit what a jerk your stepfather is and I don’t see that happening soon?

hurting them becasue they want to be the kind of grandparents that "interact" with their grandchildren.

Hurting them! They don’t think I suppose about your son’s feelings or well-being? Of course not, it’s all about them and their needs. Interact! Tony, people who talk like this have no idea what love is, what compassion is, what relationships are about. You don’t have to think that your mother is suffering in the relationship she’s in. She chooses it. Please look after yourself (((((((Tony))))))

[Jynna]

Tony,

I'm new here and this thread is helping me soooo much, so thank you for it.  I can relate to so much of what you're saying.

I didn't get that my parents were Narcissists until I had kids myself.  I didn't understand how much I missed out on until I saw how much my kids needed from me and how much I WANTED to give them.  So different from my parents who constantly reminded us kids what a burden we were to them and how grateful we should be to them for taking us in.

I want to say that you are wise not to share your new found knowledge with your parents.  My parents confronted me about my new  limits on their contact with my kids.  They showed up at my house and demanded to know why I was acting "this way".  My kids were playing in the basement, so they didn't know what was going on and I was stuck.   The response I gave them was that I felt they didn't respect me.   I could go on and on about this conversation, it lasted 45 minutes and was very ugly.  Nina Brown could not be more right---it was pointless to try to show them how their behavior affects others.  They (of course) could not care less.

Anyway,  I will say that the positive part of having "The Conversation" (that's how my hubby, therapist and I refer to it) is that it shattered my denial.  I was still holding on to the hope that they could change and still thinking they weren't really narcissists, that I was the one who was not understanding and giving enough.  The Conversation woke me up.

Good luck on this journey, reading posts on this site helps me make it between therapy sessions.  I still have doubts about whether everything is all my fault and this helps me to keep that old thinking in check.

[tony001]

Thank you so much for the replies, you all have said things that are really helping me understand my dilemna. Bless you all.

I have this wierd feeling that a part of my parents problem is that they realize (maybe this isn't possible) they didn't give a whole lot when I was a child, so they are trying to "make up for it" in my adulthood (I'm 36). But instead of doing healthy things to foster our relationship, they become overbearing, possessive and manipulative in their attempts to "help". For instance, they are doing very well financially. When I was a child they were dirt poor, I never had a lot of material things I saw other kids with. (BMX bikes, NIKE shoes, a car at sixteen, designer jeans, etc.) But I don't hold that against them, my value system shuns materialism. But over the past few years they have given me outrageous birthday and Christmas gifts. I got a $900.00 guitar for Christmas and an $800.00 handgun for my birthday. These lavish gifts made my wife and I very uncomfortable as I could practically see the strings attached to them. My mother is constantly bringing up "my inheritance", I could care less if they leave me anything, the price is just too high. All of the artwork I did in art school is framed and hanging on THEIR walls. My mother always talks about the little poems and writings I did that SHE has saved away in a box. I's like to tell her that when they die I don't want their money, they can give it to charity or leave it to their dogs (their favorite friends BTW) I just want my artwork and poems left to me, in other words, "Mom, when you die, can I have ME? Will you leave me ME?"

[Portia]

Tony they’re not trying to make up for it, they’re trying to buy affection and look good, image is everything. And they’re trying to use money and stuff to control you (be nice to us and you’ll get the inheritance). Doesn’t it suck? Yes it does. 

But you have your own values and they don't include the lure of filthy money - good!

[reallyME]

PORTIA: 

Tony they’re not trying to make up for it, they’re trying to buy affection and look good, image is everything. And they’re trying to use money and stuff to control you (be nice to us and you’ll get the inheritance). Doesn’t it suck? Yes it does. 

But you have your own values and they don't include the lure of filthy money - good!

AMENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!