Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: jayelle on December 28, 2006, 08:34:41 PM
-
Keep in mind - I'm new to this board, and only beginning to understand what a destructive narcissist really is. Here's an observation about my Nmother, and wondered if others have noticed, or if it's just my mother:
She chooses trends and OWNS them. Professes to be on the cutting edge. Was on the cutting edge years before any of us realized it was cutting edge. One of her current "got there before the rest of the world" platforms is ORGANIC FOOD. Claims she's been doing that for years (yes, she gardens & grows most of the veggies, I thought it was a hobby) and now says that she has known all along that organic food, raised without chemicals and pesticides and natural foods without preservatives is the only way to eat. (Huh - I wonder what that frozen pizza was all about when she was getting ready to host her bible study group?) Anyway - has recently proclaimed that she has always followed a healthy diet and will OUTLIVE ALL OF US because she has known for years that the food in the grocery stores was poisonous.
A few years ago she rearranged the living room, after it had been in essentially the same configuration for 30 YEARS. Recently proclaimed, after reading a magazine in the doctor's waiting room with a feng shui article that she had done exactly that when she rearranged the living room WAY BEFORE ANYBODY ever wrote a magazine article about it.
She has skinny legs - so she always wears skinny pants to show them off. Picked up a Vogue magazine at my brother & sister inlaw's house on Christmas Day, glanced through and said "Well I see they're copying my narrow-legged pants - these are so flattering on those of us with SLENDER legs."
I could go on and on, back to about 1970, when she brought home a microwave oven (it was monstrous) and declared she was probably the first person in our small town to own one.
Is this an N-thing, or is it some other insane aspect of her personality?
jl
-
Is this an N-thing, or is it some other insane aspect of her personality?
N thing. The driving root force in Ns is always insecurity. So she's makes herself sound more prescient and smarter and more of a trend setter than anyone could possibly be and on, on, on all because inside she's just a scared little rabbit.
mud
-
edit
-
I think it's an N thing. My mother gets stuck in trends though... doesn't realize they have passed. She had a pair of designer jeans in the early 80s that she was told she looked sexy in. So she equated that with being stylish and hot and now buys designer jeans still...
Basically she does not keep up with any modern sort of trend. She keeps things from past years that she felt special in... and which will never be stylish again. She always tells us how she was the thinnest, or the most beautiful in the room, etc...
Interesting topic... hard to answer... seems there are so many factors that go into the way Ns think about "things."
-
I think that there all degree's of N'ism behavior and to answer your question Control ,fear violence would qualify more as destructive N behavior.
I mean has any of her behavior effected you so much you wanted to
do self destructive behaviors to yourself this to me would show the degree of the N'ism and answer the question of being seriously a destructive N.
So I believe there are degree's of N'ism .
She seems Nish but destructive I do not know......
From wanting to be seen as a trend setter I do not know if this is as destructive as n behavior can get .If this is the only kind of stuff she does......
Sounds annoying
-
My Nmother is destructive to those around her - she is now estranged from most of her family (siblings, nieces, nephews, her living aunts & uncles). Typically has only one friend at a time. She used to have groups - bible study folks, women's groups, but that was many years ago when her house was new and recently decorated and she wanted people to come and see it. The destructiveness that I have experienced has more to do with her inhuman steely disregard for people's feelings or emotions. If she could make you cry, it meant you were weak and she was strong. If she could make you vomit, even better. From the time I was 9 she told me I only lived in her house becasuse she let me - so I was terrified that someday she would stop letting me and I would be a homeless child. I think I am describing things that aren't unfamiliar to any of you.
What I have wondered about is these behaviors - almost sidelines of hers - if they are common among Ns, or if they are, as moonlight says, just annoying. Not just portraying herself as a trendsetter, but also as a Bible scholar, an expert financial wizard, an example of a person with only the highest moral standards... and so on. She is a bigot, very prejudiced, embarrasingly so. She is of Native American heritage, and says that my father and brother and I, who are all fair-skinned, are less "pure" than her because my father's family is so "melting pot that they are nothing." I wonder if these "annoying" behaviors are common in addition to the destructive behaviors toward those who are closest to her.
-
Wowee! It sounds like your nmother and the former person in my life would get along well...everyone in her family looks to her to find out what the next fashion trend will be. In fairness to her though, she sure did seem to have a knack at predicting the next year's fashion trend and would be wearing it before it became the "in" thing. This was one aspect of Jodi that I did find really helpful in a way, since I had no sense of fashion whatsoever. I guess I didn't think of it as an N thing, but maybe it can be?
-
Dear Jay,
The destructiveness that I have experienced has more to do with her inhuman steely disregard for people's feelings or emotions. If she could make you cry, it meant you were weak and she was strong. If she could make you vomit, even better. From the time I was 9 she told me I only lived in her house because she let me - so I was terrified that someday she would stop letting me and I would be a homeless child. I think I am describing things that aren't unfamiliar to any of
I do understand this .So very much more than annoying..............terrifling :(
love
m
-
Interesting post, Jayelle!
What I think... if it weren't for narcissists, there would BE no 'trends'.
Think about it... what are 'trends' and what drives them?
Oh, everybody has to do [think, wear, be] THIS to be 'cool'.
If 'everybody' already believed that they were just fine, thanks, exactly the way they are, and understood that 'coolness' isn't something you can buy or put on like a T-shirt, anyway, they [we? us? me?] wouldn't go running after every fad that gets pushed under their [our? my?] nose in the first place.
Instead, the reaction would be - 'Oh, that's interesting. But what's all the fuss about? It's just a [car, tv show, handbag, new way of saying something we've all known for ages]. It's not IMPORTANT'.
TRENDY!
-
What I have wondered about is these behaviors - almost sidelines of hers - if they are common among Ns, or if they are, as moonlight says, just annoying. Not just portraying herself as a trendsetter, but also as a Bible scholar, an expert financial wizard, an example of a person with only the highest moral standards... and so on. She is a bigot, very prejudiced, embarrasingly so
I'd say they are ubiquitous among Ns and stem from their overwhelming internal feelings of inadequacy and insecurity. I believe in their hearts they think others are all happier and more secure and less fearful and socially normal and that they are none of those things. What seems to set them apart from other insecure people who cope in other ways is the overwhelming need to project a facade that demonstrates to the world that not only do they have all those attributes they believe others have but they've got more of them than anyone they might meet. Their great fear seems to be being found out as what they internally believe themselves to be, so they have to control every situation they are in and every person they meet in order to prevent that from happening. Hence they act as though they know more than even acknowledged experts in nearly any field you can think of, even though their knowledge is usually superficial, being just enough to make them sound expert to those around them. Bigotry would fit this pattern as well. They devalue others in order to elevate themselves.
And these behaviors are more than just annoying. They give out bad legal, financial, even medical advice to sound important or to control others and people follow it, often over a cliff. Then the narcissist blames the person who has just gone over the cliff on their behalf, dusts off his cuffs and moves on, shaking his head in disbelief at their stupididty.
After reading Stormy's link to psychopathy on a different thread, it just confirms to me that the only thing seperating a bona fide case of NPD from a full-on psychopath is that NPDers are full of fear and insecurity which slightly restrains them, unlike psychos who apparently lack even that tiny bit of restraint. In other words the only difference between NPD and a psychopath is fear of being caught. I don't know about others but I find that pretty creepy.
mud
-
Yep
It is more than annoying it is control and n's needing an audience groupies this is what creates cults.....
I have no secrets nothing to hide there is empowerment there
moon
-
Bean,
I hate it that you were told the same thing - that you only lived with your parents because they let you. I'm glad you figured out their bluff and knew they couldn't actually do it. IT BREAKS MY HEART to know that other children had to hear this. IT ALSO GIVES ME COMFORT that I wasn't the only one. I AM SO GLAD you said this in your reply. This has been one of my deepest secrets - that I believed for years that I was one twisted event away from being a homeless child. I have carried that for a long time, and never even told my therapist, it seemed so shameful. I feel like a demon that has followed me around for more than 40 years just got whipped and had to leave me. I think it was a hierarchy for me - the first needs that must be met for self-actualization are food & shelter. Since I was frequently threatened that even food & shelter were at risk, I was even easier for her to control. I love this place, and I love you for your courageous postings. I already feel less isolated.
JL
-
HER SHAME, JL.
HERS.
HOW DARE SHE DO THAT TO HER PRECIOUS GIFT OF A CHILD?
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr,
Hops
-
Hi Jayelle,
I was also told that we were the reason they didn't have money for all the things that they wanted to buy and the reason they couldn't live in the house they wanted or in the place they wanted. And sending me to college made them poor for years.etc. I now know that they just buy, buy, buy and it doesn't matter what it is just so they can have stuff. It's no different now that they have no kids in the house. But I felt terribly guilty about that forever. There is always a reason why their life is not the way they want it... and it never has to do with their bad planning.
To hear my mother talk, she is as smart as Einstein, completely versed in all types of literature, etc. But if you ever ask a specific question, she gets very flustered. She also has "rules" about what is nice and not nice, proper or not proper, cool or uncool and it's enyone's guess where they come from (and some of them are plain wacko).
YOU ARE NOT ALONE!!!!!
Lots of love,
Beth
-
JL, Bean, Beth...what you deserved to hear:
"We are so happy you were born.
New light came into my life the day you came into the world.
You are the biggest reason I know there's love in the world.
We are so happy, so glad, to be your parent.
I am the luckiest, proudest mom/dad in the world.
You are the most wonderful, precious kid, just as you are.
I will always be on your side in life, even if we disagree.
Mother/Father is the best thing I've ever been.
I have learned so much from you!"
Hops
-
edit
-
CB
IT WILL GET BETTER. The N is gone.........it is getting better. It sounds like such a strain you are living under but you have your kids and that is riches. Keep posting. Keep letting it out here. Well done for being their Mom.
axa
-
Oh, CB.
No wonder you're weary.
It's emotionally exhausting to recover from that level of cruelty as it is from surgery.
It IS surgery.
But in hindsight, when you're thriving again (WHICH YOU WILL BE), you'll know it was lifesaving.
Maybe it's time for draconian measures in terms of finances: all kids over 14 working PT and bringing the money home, hopefully a couple of them in restaurants where they get a big free meal each shift.
All unused rooms shut down to save utilities. Draft stoppers. Thermostat down to 55 at night. Bundle up.
Goat's milk is good for you. (I know I'm probably saying absurd things, but one good thing I'm aware of from my mother's childhood is that they survived conditions I find hard to fathom. Chickens and goats are lifesavers.)
As to clothing? Mine's been from the Goodwill for years.
I am so angry at your STBXNH. His spite extends to his kids.
But
...the ultimate justice is going to be your endurance (you WILL endure) and the ultimate thriving of your family.
You are an amazing woman, an amazing mother, and I know you will survive.
Trim down to the essentials, nothing more. (I'm certain you are already doing this, so forgive me for the lecture to myself!) Here's what might be missing in your busy-ness:
NURTURING things that you do FOR YOU. ONLY FOR YOU.
You can't be any good to your kids if you don't love yourself and nourish and care for yourself.
Healthful food fortunately is cheaper...beans and brown rice and tofu stirfries and frozen or canned fruit and veggies. No sodas but cold mint tea is easy to make and they can guzzle it all day w/o harm.
I hope you can find someone who would give you a deep, hour-long massage once or twice a month. Healing touch is so important and powerful in helping you heal the wound of abandonment and betrayal.
It also reminds us that despite our agony over one ruthless human being, there is love and comfort.
Peace, deep peace to you. This is just a chapter, not the book.
love,
Hops
-
Blessing to you and your children
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((cb))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
my kids are everything to me
love to you and take some time out for you
m
-
CB, I knew someone who was raising 7 children and working full-time and she had the most beautiful, manicured fingernails. I asked her how she managed that. And she said doing her own fingernails and polishing them so beautifully was the one thing she did just for herself. She turned the time spent on it, into special time for herself. And I imagine that every time she saw her beautiful nails, she could be reminded of that special "me time" and of her own self worth. Maybe you could even do your toenails too! She also enjoyed the ritual of teatime. That's what made me think of her, that you were making tea as you posted. There may be other small, inexpensive rituals you might incorporate into your routine that would help. I enjoy listening to your stories about your family. They sound like terrific people. You will definitely get through this very tough time.
Pennyplant
-
I'm awfully tired. Feels like clear to the bone. Feels like it the tired is pressed into every pore and the my brain cells are shrieking with it. I get up in the morning and it feels lilke my legs are heavier than the iron bed posts. It's not all physical either. Tell me it's going to get better. I know that it is--but I still need to hear it.
((((((CB)))))) Yes, strong, loving CB it's going to get better. I feel stronger, can I carry your tiredness that is real for you, for a moment. May I help by offering my shoulders to lean on, carry your worries as you begin to heal.
Pass it along...and rest.......with care seasons