Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: sheeeva on April 10, 2007, 08:41:59 PM
-
What my N ex taught me about court.
1. N's will cheat all they can.
2. They will bring in people who will tell lies for them.
3. They will attack your mental status.
4. They hate to lose.
5. If they lose, its not over.
6. They will lie every time they open their mouth under oath on the stand, they tell half truths so its hard for the judge to tell which part is a lie, and which part is not.
7. They will pay their attorneys lots of money to get judges that don't care if they lie or not, they will get these judges to make outrageous orders that most people would be astonished at. They will get their attorneys emotionally involved, my Ns attorney told the judge he hated me so much, he wanted to get up on the stand and testify himself.
8. They will claim they are stable and you are not, if any of his friends or family EVER witnessed you crying from his abusive behavior, they WILL be in court to testify about your mental instability and inability to take care of your children.
9. They will call state agencies to report you for imagined frauds and abuse and have you investigated over and over.
10. They will laugh at you when no one is looking, then resort to a calm dignified manner before anyone catches them.
11. DO NOT REPRESENT YOURSELF IN COURT, they will play a lot of DIRTY tricks.
12. They will believe that they have a special relationship with the judge and all court personal. You will think they do too, because the courts will most likely favor them.
13. They will not feel any remorse not matter how much they destroy and wreck your life.
14. Seeing how much you hate them for their sadistic ways will only fuel their desire to continue to drag you into these legal chambers of torture.
15. They will not pay any court ordered fees.
16. They will not follow any court orders, they will deny you visitation with your children and if you protest, they will make it look like YOU are doing something bad.
17. They will try to make the courts believe that YOU are the one breaking the orders, even if you follow them to the letter.
18. They will win 100% of the time if you do not have an attorney, don't even try to kid yourself that you have a chance if you do, no matter what proof you have that the N is a horrible person.
19. Stay out of court with a N if at all possible.
20. Through the courts the N will shred your soul and when you hate the N with all your heart, it gives him purpose to life.
21. If you have to leave a N and you think court is in the cards, get all your ducks in a row, have many many witnesses, get some of the Ns outrageous behavior on video if you can, if the N hits you press charges, but the N is smart, they may stop hitting you when they sense you may be leaving.
22. The N is always suspicious, and also lays very good traps. Plans so elaborate you would never suspect that it is an attempt to set you up.
23. They do everything in their power to bring you back into their world, even if its only as a enemy, and the harder you fight them, the more worthy of an enemy you are, for when they beat you, they can gloat of their victories even louder.
-
Many of these attributes are consistent with N's in particular. It seems they spin the series of events to their liking and then call you unstable for getting frustrated or worse, angry. They can point to your instability which has been caused by their crazy making. I recorded my ex calling and propositioning another woman and in the court documents they demanded I turn over any illegal recordings of ex. In other words, taking the evidence I had of infidelity. Some other manipulations too!
-
Oh yeow Sheeva!
I will add this to my checklist and remain informed and warned. I didn't mean to make it sound so easy, as I can see all of this actually happening with my soon to be xNH. All of it. I have seen him completely pound down any enemy and then come to everyone else for pity and sympathy for what THEY did to HIM. I have seen him orchestrate the enire thing with others which is a reason I have to be so cautious and put up with absolute horrible behavior for just bit longer. I can see it and he has orchestrated his family seeing one of my "breakdowns" from him driving me crazy just this past few months. I can see him trying to get them on his side as well as the children. I just have to fight and stay alert and prepared.
I hope to be able to record some things very soon. It won't take long for me to just step innocently out of line and cause him to blow. I won't risk it though until I have proof. Thanks for the heads-up! On many things with that helpful list since that is exactly where I am headed.
Good luck to you. I DO know what you are up against and I feel for you.
Take care,
Sunny
-
I know this sounds like general personality traits of the N, but I have never seen anything about how they relate to court situations, and if this can help just one person, then its worth it to take the time to write.
I would strongly suggest that anyone that is naive about court proceeding go and learn all they can from this web site, as it is a very accurate portrayal of small town justice systems.
http://www.familylawcourts.com/
-
(((((((((((SHeeva))))
I am so sorry for what you have been through. How awful. I just can't imagine how hurtful and frustrating and scary that must have been.
Please keep coming here for support and to share your story.
What are you doing now? Are you working with a lawyer?
Love, Beth
-
Sorry Sheeva I DIDNT mean to take away from your pain. I am removed from my divorce by years but it is good reminders for us all.
-
I do not have a lawyer. I cannot afford one even in my wildest dreams. I have sought a pleaded and begged at least 50 different attorneys to work pro-bono on this case. No one has been able to help so far. I did have an attorney for a few months, but could not afford him for the duration that this case has taken, over 2 years so far. I am totally controlled by my ex, through the courts. I am in the process of resigning myself to this fate, as I am going to completely lose my mind thinking of the abuse my son will suffer at his fathers hands but THERE IS NOTHING I CAN DO ABOUT IT. The only thing that I can do at this point, is walk away from everything, I have to escape the web of lies, misery, destruction and perpetual hatred of him by me, that is the nature of the relationship between me and the N. I am on the verge of madness. The N told me a long time ago, if I ever left him he would take my child, make my baby hate me, and drag me through the courts till our son turned 18, he is making very good on his promise so far. The only promise he ever kept. I know my son has love for me, he just has to hide it from his father, or he is spanked. He is also spanked for talking to me on the phone. I told my son to never forget that I fought for him, and I love him with all my heart, and to hide me away in his heart. I cannot go back to court without an attorney, and I cannot get an attorney until I have ten to fifteen thousand dollars, (estimates from several attorneys) because of the complexity of the case, (he spent so much time mudding the waters, and confusing the issue), there was a four day trial where I represented myself, and he talked about how horrid a person I was the entire time, and the best interest of our son was never brought up by anyone but me, and the judge thought I was such a scumbag by then, he totally ignored anything I said. I wake up every morning back in that court room, I fall asleep to that fateful day in that courtroom. I have vivid pictures of his mother screaming at me from the stand that I was going to kill my own child if he was left in my custody. I thought the judge would see how his entire family hated me, and how nuts they were ,but he was hand selected by my ex Ns attorney as a judge who likes these sorts of displays, and who sides with the most outrageous sides, had I only known, I too would have flipped out in court and screamed accusations. He was the 8th judge on this case, he was not even a family law judge, he was a criminal law judge and I guess in that family law case i was made into a criminal. My exs attorney screamed at me for hours while I cowered in the witness stand. My ex N smiled and nodded to the judge, and laughed and brought his girlfriend to court, not to testify, but to witness his power. I really am sick about the whole thing. I am surviving despite everything though. In time I hope to heal, but who knows....
-
I'm sorry Sheeva for your pain.
Try to get an attorney. If you can't afford one try legal aid. Did you wavier your right for an attorney?
Also, look for a family service counseling in your area or something on that basis.
I worked for one and we had a D.U. unit (court appointed psych team). They would be ordered in (wife, children, father and whoever else they wanted to bring. They were seen by a psychologist, psychiatrist, specialized MSW. They were all evaluated and a written report sent to the courts.
Alot of the times (especially with the men) I noticed that they were nervous and would run their mouths with us (me and other girl, office mangers) tell much of what they intended to hide in the room with the eval. They could not. I have seen a Dr have custody and bash his ex-wife so bad who was fighting for custody back or at least shared. He thought he was God Like and knew all the right moves to do. He even went off on me on the phone telling me what to do, when to do it and he was a Doctor. I told him I was not in his office he was in mine and Dr just meant he had a different job than I. He got real nice after that. I saw his true colors, they came out when I refused to do it his way. He lost it with me and worried about that. The eval was done and the court honored our diagnosis and suggestion on what to do with custody. 99% of the times the judge will go with an Eval. Sheeva his wife got shared custody back. We saw he was abusive with her Sheeva!! he lied and bullied her and we saw it!!! Go to the professionals and fight your ex back with power and truth and a team behind you in court this time.
So hon don't give up. Arm yourself with knowledge and people. Find a good attorney and a good counseling agency behind you.
Take care of yourself and keep posting.
Love
Deb
-
Sheeva,
I'm sorry I was typing while you were posting. I now see that you tried to have an attorney but could not afford one.
Now you arm yourself with an Agency who help Abused women. They will be able to give you heads up on what next to do. Do not give up. Your going to need support and women's resources are wonderfull places. Look in your phone book what is available.
Love
Deb
-
When I left him I went to the only family that I had. They lived 600 miles from where he lives. He filed a court case on me a few days after I left him, just like he had promised. I cannot get help from legal aid in the county where the case is, because I am not a resident of that area, and the legal aid in my county cannot help because the case is 600 miles away. I have been depleted of all my financial resources in this two year battle, as he had 50% custody, and I was court ordered to do ALL the driving for custody exchanges, so I spent three days a month in my car driving 1200 miles. He was court ordered to PAY for gas, he never paid for gas, but I spent thousands of dollars on my credit cards and countless days in my car to take our son to him to honor court order. He told judge he didn't pay for the gas cause I got the expensive kind and used to much gas getting to him. The judge accepted this excuse. I am now in RN program where I live 600 miles from him. This what is going to save my future. When I am done I will be able to afford attorney. That is almost two years off though. I am sad about it. I cannot go to counseling with him, as I am so far away now. I am planning on moving back to the area when I am done with school. I love my son very much, I will never give up, but that is what the N expects.
The mediator saw my ex bully me, he bullied me in the mediators office and the mediator wrote a report that said I should have custody of our son, but N fought it, he knew that because I did not have attorney that I would lose. I have only been a good mother to my children. I have provided them with love, affection, and a home where they have all that they need. Without an attorney, they painted me as a monster. My ex Ns attorney actually told the judge that I was a "Seven foot monster, wielding my restraining orders like daggers, twirling them like batons, to pierce my ex, to sever his relationship from his son, and to eventually condemn him to a life in prison. It is her intent to have him jailed away from his son where he will never see his precious son again" those were his exact words.
I see that you saw my post.....I still wanted to post this. I think the more people who know what its like to leave a N, the more careful they will be. I researched this before I left him, but at the time, I could not find any info. It was not talked about.
-
I thought the judge would see how his entire family hated me, and how nuts they were ,but he was hand selected by my ex Ns attorney as a judge who likes these sorts of displays, and who sides with the most outrageous sides, had I only known, I too would have flipped out in court and screamed accusations. He was the 8th judge on this case, he was not even a family law judge, he was a criminal law judge and I guess in that family law case i was made into a criminal.
Ummmm.... what county and State are you located in? Here..... DeKalb County Georgia...... the judge is selected by automatic lottery and nobody knows what kind of judge they're going to pull. Margo
-
Hi, Sheeva.
I have not visited here in a while, but today I did, and I think it was to see your post.
I was in a similar situation a few years back, feeling that my life was completely under an devious, destructive N's control, in and out of the courts. I felt your pain coming off the computer screen. Please know that you are not alone. N's know that the one thing they can "get us" with is our love for our children. It doesn't matter to them that they are also their children....the children become tools to bring us to our knees.
This pain is like no other. I just cried reading your anger and hurt.
It can take over your entire brain and spirit. Having your love for your children used against you is one of the more twisted things narcissists will do, and it's done all the time.
Please don't give up. Try to see through the pain you now feel to a brighter day. Can you imagine it? Give yourself glimpses of the life you want every once in a while. Don't let him take every single moment in your head. Reclaim it. Just a little at first.
Breaking away from this pain seems insurmountable, I know. It is not, however. We have power in us that can defeat any fear and any evil.
In these bleak times, give yourself the gift (that you DESERVE) of hope. Find ways to let the pain go (yup, I know...the hardest part) even in small amounts and let your brain rest from the obsessive worry and fear. Your mind is your own. You can imagine the worst or the best. Granted, it looks like the worst right now....but you can turn that power you imagine he has right now over on him in an instant! One day, you will be like me, looking back from the other side, saying "oh, my word, I did it. I took back the power."
You WILL be able to not only survive, but thrive AND keep your child. Keep reciting THAT in your head everytime you hear yourself say the opposite.
Look, there is a way. It is not easy (at first) mostly because of how overwhelming this pain is. But PLEASE keep faith...in yourself, in God, in the Universe, in the goodness that is there for us. The goodness that YOU are connected to, and the goodness that for whatever reason, the N's have disconnected from. It's still there. Inside of us. Powerful, intense, pure. It's love.
You know how to love, and that is your only "mistake"...one N's use to hurt us. But it doesn't matter what he does, what he says, how much money he has or who he knows. All that matters is that YOU find the power of YOUR love and focus on the good there is.
We tend to get in our lives what we focus on. So focus on all the love and empathy that I and the others here are sending you.
Allow hope to carry you. You have angels with you...all of us who have been there. We are all with you.
Do not let him take your spirit down the dark spiral of despair (I know they are good at that....but it's YOUR life, and YOUR mind, and YOUR child. Remember that.)
This will be your biggest challenge in this life. Not with him, for he is just a character in your life.... but with this awakening. This is your chance to FIND YOUR POWER, to connect with what matters. N's are afraid of just that, which is why they lie to us and control us and because of our loving nature, we allow them to.
This is your chance to CLAIM what is yours. Your life. Get mad. Get happy. SO much is waiting for you to learn and embrace.
YOU ARE an incredible mother. YOU CAN win this. FOCUS on how amazing and wonderful you and your child are.
Forget about him whenever you can. He is not inside your head unless you let him be. Purge him from your head as often as you can (I used a flushing toilet image for my ex, considering all the s*** he gave me!!!). I used to "flush" him twenty times a minute. Do whatever it takes to imagine his energy leaving you (attach breathing to that, it really helps calm me down)..... and fill the void up with images of YOUR choosing!!! (happy, with your kid, away from him!!! YAY!!!)
YOU CAN DO THIS!!!
Sorry for the ramble... I just hope something lands and grows...I feel for you so much.
Love,
Mum
-
Mum, thank you. I know your post was to Sheeva but it felt like cool water over me. I needed it.
Today I took back my power. I feel good. I have more to share, but not on this thread because it is Sheeva's and because I want to do a couple more things first.
I am so glad I have this board.
CB
-
Hi, CB. We are all in this together. I am happy you found solace in my cheerleading for Sheeva. Any of this is for anybody going through this.
Divorcing an N is nasty stuff. How dare we, eh?
But whenever we can detach from the emotion of the "battle" and take a larger perspective, we can give ourselves some compassion....and rest. Maybe then we can see that this is not really about them and the crazy things they throw our way to get us to think we are in hell. But that it's OUR life and OUR journey and they are bit players put there to teach us something.
My ex N has been one of my biggest teachers in this life. I learned so much from him . He has NO idea of course, being asleep as he is, and if he ever heard that, he would say (typical N fashion) "of course....see? It IS all about me!!").
I felt like I was in a horrid swamp and he was the mucky water and whenever I got one leg out, I would look down and see tentacles of totall panic and fear grabbing me, pulling me down. When I started to detach and reclaim my life, I realized how skilled N's are (and THIS board really helped!!) at conjuring up illusions of horror. But that's what they are....illusions. They are no more real than any other thought we may have. Most of it is smoke and mirrors. And lawyers are not miracle workers, even if they are in our "camp". Nothing gets done "quickly" in the courts...nothing. And family court is especially slow. I learned to detach from any time deadlines I thought should be there.
It made my life that much easier. (I am referring to your other posts, about courts and lawyers, CB).
I have a little thing I go through whenever I go down the dark spiral of regret about the money lost fighting him, or money he is hiding, or the lack of financial support he is giving our kids, or the way he is in general:
(imagine the master card commercial):
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ spent on lawyers and court fees....
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ lost in child support and tuition aid......
%#^$&*@&#!!!!! in energy spent being angry and hurt......
Getting the a**hole out of my life.............PRICELESS!!!!
To Sheeva: Money is like anything else....it's just energy and pretty much a collective illusion. I don't really see the "money" in and out of my hands....it's just numbers. If you focus on feeling like you simply don't have the money to get a lawyer...that may be your "reality" but understand it's created in our heads first.
Now this may sound nuts (as if the above doesn't already), but I have seen it work for my family many times (and for me). If you truly want to be represented by an attorney, and if you believe that is what is best: you will. If you stop that thought every time it comes up with your percieved "reality" (I can't afford one) then you have deemed it so. That's ok, really. But everything in our life is how WE percieve it. And we are so powerful it's shocking.
Try, (ok, just try?) imagining yourself with a powerful ally in the courts (assuming you think it's what you need or want to win this....if not...carry on). Now don't put any stops on that (as in: how could that possibly happen? Not going to....etc). Don't worry about HOW. Just carry the mental picture and remain open to it happening. This is where faith and believing and hope comes in. These "real" things that can come your way may always have been available, you just couldn't see them (our minds do amazing things). I bet something comes up for you...a WAY, a path, a possibility. These may be just the suggestions people have been making.....women's shelters who may know attorneys who work probono, etc... Just don't WORRY about the outcome. Focus on the good stuff in your life (there has to be something). ALLOW good things to happen, ok? This is the great mystery of life....how amazing it can be if we let it!
THERE IS NOTHING I CAN DO ABOUT IT.
This statement from your earlier post is incredibly powerful. You have deemed this so. I know how much work it takes to turn this into :I CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT but it's entirely possible. Please make room in your head for that possibility, please. It is your way home. (make some "room" by "flushing" that jerk out of your head whenever you can!)
I don't mean to sound harsh, or that somehow this is your fault (I went through that part and would love to spare you that). The only thing you did was get involved with someone who cannot possibly love the way you know how to. He is particularly skilled in making you feel certain ways (mostly bad!). If you feel crappy, it's most likely the "training" you recieved from the N. So don't give in to that. Just because you can claim your life back doesnt' mean you have failed in trusting it to this person!!! That is past. That is what happened. It is a memory, no longer real, no longer NOW.
I gotta go, but I WILL be sending you and CB and anyone else who is stuck in the negative with an N's debris: lots and lots of positive, high and happy energy so you can spend your thoughts in possibility, not limitations.
much love
Mum
-
Wow CB. You have just given me the tools I needed today to get up an fight for myself. These words are very powerful and very helpful to me today. For me the victory is going to come in believing that I can affect change in my life--not just cower in the corner, hoping the damage he inflicts will be minimal.
I encourage you to make sure your new attorney understands your experience as you describe it so clearly here:
He is using the court system, and my reluctance to fight with him, as a way to continue to exert control over me. Set up a court date and then cancel. Make a settlement proposal and then refuse to sign. Offer to negotiate over the phone and refuse to answer phone calls. I am still too wrapped up in his games. I need to turn this whole thing over to an attorney who will handle it without my emotions getting involved in it.
I am afraid of having to affect change in my life. I have been cowering in a corner waiting for help. Help is not coming. I need to take a step and get beyond cowering. Thank you CB - GS
-
Sheeva,
I'm sorry for what has happened to you and I also believe if you do not give up you will prevail. Perseverance pays off; it's a test of our character. And you are correct that if you go into court unarmed against an N you will regret it. Have you contacted the Legal Services Corporation? I believe it is a Federal program and might not be hindered by the diference in jurisdictions. I don't know for sure, having never used it, but you might look into it.
CB,
He is using the court system, and my reluctance to fight with him, as a way to continue to exert control over me. Set up a court date and then cancel. Make a settlement proposal and then refuse to sign.
Gee why does that sound familiar? They see reasonableness and compromise on the part of their "enemies" as weakness. They cannot be induced into being reasonable in return, they must be bludgeoned into it. I subscribe to a magazine which claims to be represented by the law firm Solitary, Poor, Nasty, Brutish and Short. I hope you find the equivalent in your area and they impart a little bludgeoning on your behalf.
mum,
Good to hear from you again.
Money is like anything else....it's just energy and pretty much a collective illusion.I don't really see the "money" in and out of my hands....it's just numbers.
I bought some groceries the other day and at the checkout line they would take neither the handful of energy I offered nor the post-it with all the numbers I scribbled on it. Could you tell me where you shop?
If your lawyer takes energy credits as well it's no wonder you don't mind how much it cost to get the a**hole out of your life. :P :D :P
mud
-
Mud, Mud, Mud, ever so literal Mud. Very funny. Hope "reality" is going well for you.
My attorney's work was paid with lots of "energy", and I was happy to do it! She navigated the courts for me, and she was not perfect. And she was the second attorney I tried, CB. My first attorneys did not quite "get" how to deal with the nastiness my ex and his attorney dished out. Wishing you all the best.
It can be "won" but mostly by changing how you "play". That all starts in your head.
That's one of the many benefits of focusing on yourself....you cannot count on anything but crazy from N's, but you can keep strong and focused on YOUR goal and keep that feeling that it's right around the corner. I was embroiled in my court battle for so long, that when I finally prevailed I was shocked. They do give up eventually. And the courts do prefer parents who are not crazy/angry. So I would advise anyone in this situation to find ways to let go of the negative energy and anger these N's stir up in us. (however justified it is).
Much love to all.
Mum
-
Sheeva,
I am concerned about your son's inability to even talk to you on a regular basis. Is there anyone with whom he spends time away from your ex, i.e., day care provider, school, neighbor friend, who you could recruit to be your ally, and provide a safe place for your son to talk to you? I think it is so important that you get strength from each other during this time away from one another. You need to hear that he is doing OK and he needs to hear that you still love him and will be working your way back into his life.
I was fortunate in my own divorce situation that my xnh was not nasty and manipulating about the kids and they were older (15 and 18) at the time anyway. I needed a good attorney to protect me financially as he had lied about and hidden assets while carrying on an affair. But if it hadn't been for my therapist, who diagnosed my x as n, and his help and guidance during a devastating time of my life, I'm sure my ex would have been able to take great advantage of me as well.
I'm so sorry for your situation and my heart aches for your little boy and for you who cannot be with him. My children are my life and if they were taken away from me, my heart would be shattered into a million pieces.
I agree with what the others have said about finding help from legal aid and from an abused women's shelter. I have been associated with one in my hometown and they can be very helpful in many ways to women with absolutely no resources. I would also recommend finding a divorce support group. These are often offered by churches, local community groups, hospitals, etc. They can be a big help in working through the anger, giving you a shoulder to lean on, finding others in a similar situation, and also for providing additional resources that can help with the legal and psychological issues. You said you are in school studying to be an RN. Your college probably has some counseling services which you could take advantage of. I strongly urge you to find any way possible to get some help to process all your pain right now. It is not anything someone should have to do alone.
Hugs,
Brigid
-
There is something to be said for magical thinking. It can sometimes get you through the tough times, but there is no substitute to for reality. I have to face things as they are and learn to deal with them. There is no way for me to get an attorney, unless one reads about this on the internet and contacts me with a miracle of an offer. Some people have the luxury of living in bubble and others do not. Some of you claim to have attorneys, and that is so wonderful for you, you have found a way to pay for them, too, that is even greater... I am not in that kind of a situation. I left with nothing but my kids and the clothes on our backs, I did not even have my own car when I left. I felt a sense of freedom that I had not had in years, but that was short lived as fighting for my child set in. He gets so much attention from his friends and family over the whole situation, that he may never let him go. Our child is a great source of attention for him and his ego. He now gets to play all kinds of new and exciting roles in his ever lasting search for self validation. I am bound under to court order to let my child go to him, the small town court played a huge role in the shredding ripping and destruction of my family. I used to have fantasies of walking into the court house and blowing my brains all over the judge because of what they were allowing my ex to do to the kids and me. I used to be happy. I used to have joy. That is all gone now as year three of court battle is underway. I have no money, nothing. The only thing I have is this RN program. And the bleak outlook of working for an attorney when i am done, as in every penny I earn will go to an attorney for many many years, I have no doubt that my ex will fulfill his promise of 18 years of court battle, and I need money to protect my children from him, as in this particular family court the parent with the most money wins. I tried calling my son all week last week during the court ordered times, but as usual my ex had the phone off the hook, so this week I did not even try. It is just the Ns way of hurting me even more. He has found a powerful tool. All the positive thinking in the world has not and will not make a difference. I totally thought that I would be able to get an attorney somehow, but I could not. ATTORNEYS ARE NOT OBLIGATED TO TAKE CIVIL CASES FOR FREE. THERE IS NO LAW THAT SAYS THEY HAVE TO. I spent TWO years working on this for at least 40 hours per week, trying to figure out how to get an attorney and how to file papers in a court case that I was dragged into. STOP TELLING ME THAT I CAN GET ONE WITHOUT MONEY. I am not dealing with a normal person either. It took him two years to get custody, and I am sure that if I had it reversed, he would not stop until he found another judge who would give him the same outcome. As long as I fight him, it gives him a reason to live, it gives his ego fuel. I have to let him think he has won for now, while I slowly work on my ability to change things. He just got custody last month, that is why it is so hard for me emotionally right now. I know that if I had an attorney for an appeal I would win,(I had a restraining order, 14 police reports, and a mediators report that said I should have full legal and physical custody, and my son had always lived with me, and he has a brother who lives with me) I lost for the SOLE reason of no attorney.
-
I am sorry for your pain, Sheeva. And I am sorry if my responses seemed invalidating, it was not my intention.
Mum
-
There is no way for me to get an attorney, unless one reads about this on the internet and contacts me with a miracle of an offer. Some people have the luxury of living in bubble and others do not. Some of you claim to have attorneys, and that is so wonderful for you, you have found a way to pay for them, too, that is even greater... I am not in that kind of a situation. I left with nothing but my kids and the clothes on our backs, I did not even have my own car when I left. I felt a sense of freedom that I had not had in years, but that was short lived as fighting for my child set in. He gets so much attention from his friends and family over the whole situation, that he may never let him go. Our child is a great source of attention for him and his ego. He now gets to play all kinds of new and exciting roles in his ever lasting search for self validation. I am bound under to court order to let my child go to him, the small town court played a huge role in the shredding ripping and destruction of my family. I used to have fantasies of walking into the court house and blowing my brains all over the judge because of what they were allowing my ex to do to the kids and me. I used to be happy. I used to have joy. That is all gone now as year three of court battle is underway. I have no money, nothing. The only thing I have is this RN program. And the bleak outlook of working for an attorney when i am done, as in every penny I earn will go to an attorney for many many years, I have no doubt that my ex will fulfill his promise of 18 years of court battle, and I need money to protect my children from him, as in this particular family court the parent with the most money wins. I tried calling my son all week last week during the court ordered times, but as usual my ex had the phone off the hook, so this week I did not even try. It is just the Ns way of hurting me even more. He has found a powerful tool. All the positive thinking in the world has not and will not make a difference. I totally thought that I would be able to get an attorney somehow, but I could not. ATTORNEYS ARE NOT OBLIGATED TO TAKE CIVIL CASES FOR FREE. THERE IS NO LAW THAT SAYS THEY HAVE TO. I spent TWO years working on this for at least 40 hours per week, trying to figure out how to get an attorney and how to file papers in a court case that I was dragged into. STOP TELLING ME THAT I CAN GET ONE WITHOUT MONEY. I am not dealing with a normal person either. It took him two years to get custody, and I am sure that if I had it reversed, he would not stop until he found another judge who would give him the same outcome. As long as I fight him, it gives him a reason to live, it gives his ego fuel. I have to let him think he has won for now, while I slowly work on my ability to change things. He just got custody last month, that is why it is so hard for me emotionally right now. I know that if I had an attorney for an appeal I would win,(I had a restraining order, 14 police reports, and a mediators report that said I should have full legal and physical custody, and my son had always lived with me, and he has a brother who lives with me) I lost for the SOLE reason of no attorney.
If your ex has money.... then part of that money was YOUR money. All the money he earned during the marriage.... half of that was yours. I don't understand why he has so much and you got nothing. Beleieve me.... I'm not accusing you of exaggerating.... I'm simply trying to discern what went wrong so that others don't let that happen to them, if they can help it. (read that as me)
What happened that you left with a small child, as primary caretaker, and got no temporary support or money for an attorney? If you weren't working.... the court usually orders money for an attorney from the husband? If I'm wrong..... please correct me. Especially when dealing with wealthy people..... there seemed to be no reason why your husband wouldn't have had to pay for your counsel?
Also.... how did he get custody of your child? It's almost unheard of here for a parent who never cared for their child to get full custody like that. Here in Atlanta GA, anyway. We don't even have joint custody here unless both parents agree to it.
Also..... what happened to your first child's father? Is he around, helping... hurting you? How are you living on your own and did you not get any support?
-
i never married him. he was not my husband so I did not get half of his money. Sorry this is so unbelievable for some of you to fathom, but it is true, I never ever thought in a million years that they courts operated the way they did. If you have any experience with an abuser then you might be able to imagine some of it anyway. He is the stealthy kind. The sneaky one who hits only when there are no people around that he knows, or behind closed doors. He is a N, so he always modified my thoughts after evey fight, saying "why are you so sad" " I didn't do anything to you , you need to take some medication for your depression" The funny think was, I never did take any "medication" for my "depression" and I would agree with him to get him to leave me alone. I am so terrified of him that I shake when I know that I am going to have to see him. I had to get up in court and endure a four day trial with his attorney and him attacking me every word they said. He was so elated it showed in his face every time he looked at me. I was reduced to less than human by all the accusations him and his sick mother and sister flung at me. Funny thing was I only saw his mother twice in the four years of our sick relationship, and his sister once, but both of these women got up and testified that I was a crazy bitch who would kill her own children. I was shocked. I love my kids. I am a honor student and a RN student. I love people, and I am very sensitive and kind. I have always tried to raise my children the best I know how. I kept his abuse secrets way to long, and when I finally broke free of his mind control, it was to late. Nobody would believe me, well one judge believed me, and gave me a restraining order that stopped him from trying to physically intimidate me too much anymore, or at least made him more sneaky about it. I am very ignorant of the laws, and do not know how to navigate a complex legal system against a lying and sneaky attorney who will do any dirty lawyer trick in the book to help his client have the advantage, a lawyer with a track record of 100% wins in family law. You think every client he has had is innocent? This attorney brags to take on cases where the person has been accused of child molestation and defends those people too, and he wins EVERY time. That is how the unbelievable comes true. SO IF YOU WANT TO TELL ME TO GET AN ATTORNEY OR DON'T BELIEVE ME STOP POSTING IN THIS THREAD, I DON'T NEED YOUR CLOSED MINDED OPINIONS
What I do need is good advice from people who know about narcissism, and can give me good advice on what to do to get him to take his radar off me, and get tactics to use on him(not the courts) to eventually get my child into a safer life. People who know that every interaction with a N is dangerous and the cold calculating SOB is making plans with every word uttered. People who know that he does not want custody to give child better life, but to hurt me and continue to get reaction out of me. People who know that the N live in their own little worlds of their choosing, and have good advice to give on the subject of dealing with them. My whole story up to now is a world of the N's choosing. I would have never choose to live in this manner. I would have done everything to avoid court, but when your dealing with a N, there is no input that does not jive with their plans. This was his plan. This is my life. I want my life back.
-
Sheeva - I believe you word for word. I think what you are up against is so unbearable that even many of us who have experienced great hardship in dealing with Ns can only begin to get. The hardships of dealing with systems that cannot or will not help the innocent is too much for many of us to bear.
I have been through some absolute insane shenanigans in the legal system in trying to deal with my husband's will. They are just as insane as what you describe but the object is not over my child. I went to several different attorneys and each time was told that the attorney who was handling the case could not do what he was doing - but he did and then no one else would help me - except one who charged me $5000 for telling me that I had to give half of my husband's property to his adult son even though the will suggested otherwise. She went on to tell me that my husband's son was shipping out to Iraq and when I told her that he hadnot even finished his ROTC requirements and had a long history of exaggerating and lieing she clearly did not believe me. That is such an insignificant piece of it because I cannot discuss the parts that are painful because no one will believe me so I get what you are trying to say and I get what you are up against.
I hear that you need someone here to listen and to believe - not to offer more suggestions of things already tried or that won't make inroads into the nightmarish experience you have been living. It is not really closed mindedness - it is the inability to imagine that there is no real answer to the insanity you have lived with. But I have seen much in life that echos such insanity - the broad class of examples that I think of often are those folks who are in prison for crimes they did not commit - some of them on death row. Now that is as insane as anything else.
My heart is with you. On another thread you really had started figuring out some very good things. Keep your mind and your heart on your work towards your degree. Keep documenting your attempts to call - date, time and what happens on the phone. Write letters to your son or a journal so that when you do get to see him later you can show him how much love you have had for him..
Later tonight I have a story that is as Kafkaesque a situation as you are describing concerning my probate experience - but again it does not involve anything as precious as your son. My heart is with you. Your situation is unbearable. But you do so clearly understand that the more you fight the more the child's father enjoys tormenting you. My sister in law is being much like that right now with my brother and their 15 year old son. She wanted the divorce and now that my brother has gotten engaged to a kind loving person my sister in law will do anything to make life difficult for her son who loves being with his father and step-mother to be.
I am thinking of you - Gaining Strength
-
Sheeva,
Look, I don't know you but I would like to help. You also don't know me, as I was on the board a long time ago, when I was battling my ex over my children. But I am honestly not trying to belittle your experience or baby you either. I think you are an honest, competent, intellegent woman who is currently in N-hell. I screw up sometimes, and I apologize for adding any salt to an unbearable wound.
I re-read something I wrote to you and I understand, now, why you might have been offended. It's so clear now, and I really am sorry. I can be pretty clumsy sometimes.
When I said the courts give preference to "parents who are not crazy/angry", I did not mean you were crazy. God, no.
I was speaking from my own experience. My ex made me feel crazy and I was extremely angry and it all worked against me, that's all I was saying. A horrid catch 22, to be sure. A mediator told me that my anger was sabotaging me, legally. She "got" who he was, understood he was a raging, abusive, horrible N, but she knew custody court, and she was right (in my case). I blistered from that for a long time. But my anger and pain poisoned everything in my life during that time and in retrospect, she was dead on about what happened. That may or may not be what's going on for you. I know that.
And that is what I meant by changing the way you play the game.That IS how I dealt with fighting an N is custody court. N's feed off of our (justifiable) anger at thier hands. They know how to hurt us and take great pleasure in doing so. In my case, the more I hurt, the more power he felt and the more out of control I looked. They way N's work is truly evil. Family courts are loaded with N's...on and off the bench, and it seems like a crap shoot to me, how judges rule.
And I know it sounds like I am talking from some other world, but I have been at the depths of the ocean, held down by an abusive N, while he dangled my children to taunt me. I am so sorry that I lost touch with that when I wrote.
My "real" experience with dealing with an N, is just what I wrote you. It is not everyone's way, but it was how I turned it around....in the real, physical world. Disconnecting from that "reality" (of hell) that was his making and making my own reality, turned out to work for me. Turns out the unrealistic stuff were the lies he tricked me into believing about my life.
I have nothing but admiration and compassion for you and your difficulties right now. I want you to get your life back, too. It's only because I got mine back that I believe others can, too.
It's ok with me if you reject my akward way of trying to say I care. I still hope you find your way out.
I was able to find some help through a website, and you might too. It's
www.thelizlibrary.org
A long time ago, when I felt I had nothing to lose, I contacted the moderator of the website (a lawyer). She put me in contact with someone in my city who she thought could help. It turns out I got some help from another source at the very same time for my appeal, but I was amazed at how helpful they were. It's just an idea, but maybe you could look into it?
Best of luck to you. With much love,
Mum
-
i never married him. he was not my husband so I did not get half of his money. Sorry this is so unbelievable for some of you to fathom, but it is true, I never ever thought in a million years that they courts operated the way they did. If you have any experience with an abuser then you might be able to imagine some of it anyway. He is the stealthy kind. The sneaky one who hits only when there are no people around that he knows, or behind closed doors. He is a N, so he always modified my thoughts after evey fight, saying "why are you so sad" " I didn't do anything to you , you need to take some medication for your depression" The funny think was, I never did take any "medication" for my "depression" and I would agree with him to get him to leave me alone. I am so terrified of him that I shake when I know that I am going to have to see him. I had to get up in court and endure a four day trial with his attorney and him attacking me every word they said. He was so elated it showed in his face every time he looked at me. I was reduced to less than human by all the accusations him and his sick mother and sister flung at me. Funny thing was I only saw his mother twice in the four years of our sick relationship, and his sister once, but both of these women got up and testified that I was a crazy bitch who would kill her own children. I was shocked. I love my kids. I am a honor student and a RN student. I love people, and I am very sensitive and kind. I have always tried to raise my children the best I know how. I kept his abuse secrets way to long, and when I finally broke free of his mind control, it was to late. Nobody would believe me, well one judge believed me, and gave me a restraining order that stopped him from trying to physically intimidate me too much anymore, or at least made him more sneaky about it. I am very ignorant of the laws, and do not know how to navigate a complex legal system against a lying and sneaky attorney who will do any dirty lawyer trick in the book to help his client have the advantage, a lawyer with a track record of 100% wins in family law. You think every client he has had is innocent? This attorney brags to take on cases where the person has been accused of child molestation and defends those people too, and he wins EVERY time. That is how the unbelievable comes true. SO IF YOU WANT TO TELL ME TO GET AN ATTORNEY OR DON'T BELIEVE ME STOP POSTING IN THIS THREAD, I DON'T NEED YOUR CLOSED MINDED OPINIONS
What I do need is good advice from people who know about narcissism, and can give me good advice on what to do to get him to take his radar off me, and get tactics to use on him(not the courts) to eventually get my child into a safer life. People who know that every interaction with a N is dangerous and the cold calculating SOB is making plans with every word uttered. People who know that he does not want custody to give child better life, but to hurt me and continue to get reaction out of me. People who know that the N live in their own little worlds of their choosing, and have good advice to give on the subject of dealing with them. My whole story up to now is a world of the N's choosing. I would have never choose to live in this manner. I would have done everything to avoid court, but when your dealing with a N, there is no input that does not jive with their plans. This was his plan. This is my life. I want my life back.
I don't doubt you've been tortured unfairly by a lying manipulative N. I did not, however, realize you didn't have this custody dispute in divorce court. It may have been mentioned but..... I missed it. Sometimes people ask for clarity on a message board so they can learn too. It's part of the process and since I'm in divorce court at this time, with children, you can understand my need for clarity, yes?
Please try to stay focused on the things that will help you. Documenting your N's behavior with regard to visitation rights he's trampling. Document document document. The system won't stand behind him if he's waving his fanny at it too. Get your education and remain in contact with your child. Research the laws youself on the computer. It's your job to keep from becoming overwhelmed..... and that comes with practice and information. I found this board through another site you may find helpful as follows: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_difference_between_narcissistic_personality_disorder_and_borderline_personality_disorder
I hope you find your power. I hope you're able to focus your energy on getting some justice and sanity for you and your child. Get some therapy. Take information where you can find it and start journaling. No one here wishes anything but healing and restoration. It isn't over..... till it's over. Your child is young and he needs you calm, steady and consistently. Don't miss any more visitations. Keep looking for ways to bolster your position. He's going to make mistakes and you should position yourself to take advantage of them. Good luck, Margo
-
Just bringing this to the top for the person who was curious about what it could be like going to court with an N, Good luck!