Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Gaining Strength on April 20, 2007, 04:41:26 PM
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I was listening to the radio today and heard the recording Alec Baldwin left his daughter. I wanted to post about it because it is much like I expect some of us lived with as powerless children. When I went on line to find some excerpts (http://video.msn.com/v/us/v.htm?f=01/64&g=2F483C34-B39A-4A7C-B69D-4DDD36096528&p=hotvideo_celebrity&t=m555&rf=http://movies.msn.com/movies/article.aspx?news=259574>1=7701&fg=)
I first found the following statement.
"Although I have been told by numerous people not to worry too much, as all parents lose their patience with their kids, I am most saddened that this was released to the media because of what it does to a child," he wrote. "I'm sorry, as everyone who knows me is aware, for losing my temper with my child. I have been driven to the edge by parental alienation for many years now. You have to go through this to understand. (Although I hope you never do.) I am sorry for what happened. But I am equally sorry that a court order was violated, which had deliberately been put under seal in this case."
Does something seem to be missing in this "apology" ? Does this part of his statement sound believable to you? "I am most saddened that this was released to the media because of what it does to a child."
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Here are a couple of more tidbits from the story:
UPDATE: A friend of Alec Baldwin's just contacted TMZ to say that the actor called Ireland last week and apologized for his outburst. The friend added that Ireland is the most important thing in the world to Alec and that he is frustrated because over the last six years, Kim has "tried everything" to alienate Ireland from him.
It seems to me that he has done a good enough job alienating his daughter all on his own. His response is so typical of an N. That's why it has really touched me. It frustrates me that he has enough of an audience to appear to get by with this explaination because it is transparent but only if you choose to see through it.
UPDATE: Alec Baldwin's spokesperson released the following statement to the TV show "EXTRA": "In the best interest of the child, Alec will do what the mother is pathologically incapable of doing ... keeping his mouth shut and obeying the court order. The mother and her lawyer leaked this sealed material in violation of a court order. Although Alec acknowledges that he should have used different language in parenting his child, everyone who knows him privately knows what he has been put through for the past six years."
Does this get to anyone else on this board? Does it touch N nerves with anyone else?
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GS - I'm glad she aired what he did. That child will get validation of how wrong her dad was, and he will be more careful in the future as to how he treats her. It doesn't sound to me like his apology was sincere at all and I don't care what he says, you don't treat a daughter you claim to adore like that. He's sick.
And another thing;
Kim has "tried everything" to alienate Ireland from him.
Kim doesn't have to try anything to alienate Ireland from him, he's doing a great job of that himself. I think that if my child's father treated her like that I'd be trying to create as much distance as possible to protect my child. Don't you?
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Ah, note the nasty swipe being taken at Mommy now. "Pathologically incapable" indeed.
I'd say we have a very clear picture of who the pathological one is, and it's not the mother.
Edit in: and the 'sadness' about the information being released? Classic N reaction to having their viciousness exposed.
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Stormy - I noticed for the first time your blog sites and went to them. You write beautifully! I especially love your description of yourself and In Honor of Liviu Librescu .
I'm so glad you and Mountain spring replied. I have kept somewhat quiet about the tradgedy at VPI - it is simply too much, too broad, incomprehensible. Perhaps that is why I have something to say about this but I would have anyway. There is so much here that kindles my own experiences but here the dark underbelly has been rudely exposed. I am truly thankful for Ireland. Perhaps she will have the support she needs to weather the nightmare of such a brutish father. - GS
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I've been reading some more on it. When the family court judge heard the tape she immediately banned Mr. Baldwin from having any further contact with Ireland until a May 4 hearing date. I hope she gets the support she needs too...
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There is a sadness in me that few here are at all interested in this topic. It is one that touches the very dark places that brought me here. I have been feeling a little alienated lately as though my interests are mine alone. Sometimes I pour my heart out on a post and get no response at all. And when I view that logically it makes perfect sense but in my wounded heart it is deeply painful - another example of not fitting in and not fitting in here is painful indeed because "here" is a load of people who are compassionate and empathetic. So if I am alone here, if my words and my concerns fall on deaf ears here then I am truly alone.
I know this sounds like a strange reaction to posting on a topic that others are simply not interested in but this topic goes to the core of the Nism that I grew up with and I realize that I am alone in it. I lived in such fear and with such a crushed spirit and was so unaware of it. I knew that none of my desires would come to fruition and internalized that my desires were flawed.
Can you imagine the fear that child was in from the time she received that message unti the judge protected her. The fear that she would pay the price of a full day of rage from her father "showing her". I lived in that fear with each and every mistake that I made and I weep that I have not been able to put that fear aside. Instead I have learned to be paralyzed from fear of mistakes and have learned to condemn and criticized myself and expect flaws and expect condemnation and expect rejection.
This news story illuminated my 11 year old life to me. In the middle of the night I dreamt about an experience from the spring of my 7th grade year. I was 12. This story had taken me directly back to that age. There was something that I wanted to do, that the other girls in my class (all five of them) were going to do but my parents said no. They said no in a way to make clear that my desire was flawed and below our social status. Nevermind that others in my class were their friends children.
I don't know what to do with all of this - the loneliness is excruciatingly painful. I chose to believe that this is part of the process of opening up the past for the healing light to shine in. I am ready to heal and longing to heal. I believe in healing. I see it all around me here.
I experience the message by Alec Baldwin as life crushing and the split reaction to it to be reflective of our society. I am heartened by the sizable reaction of shock. I am so surprised that there is hardly a wrinkle of reaction here of all places.
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((((GS))))
So if I am alone here, if my words and my concerns fall on deaf ears here then I am truly alone.
You are not alone.
Can you imagine the fear that child was in from the time she received that message unti the judge protected her. The fear that she would pay the price of a full day of rage from her father "showing her". I lived in that fear with each and every mistake that I made and I weep that I have not been able to put that fear aside.
But you are putting that fear aside. Every time you use your voice to describe it... each time you post you are working through your fear. You are becoming stronger. I think you're forgetting it's a process. As children, these things happened to us over and over again and we got the same result over and over again.. and in working through it as adults we expect the same results that our abusive parents taught us. But each time we speak up, each time we use our voice we are 'training our brain' to know the truth. The truth is you are not flawed and defective. The truth is we adopted a view of ourselves that our parents projected on to us and we believed that as children and well into our adulthood. I don't know how it is to change what we feel about ourselves... I'm working on that too.. but I do know that you are not alone. I promise.
Can you imagine the fear that child was in from the time she received that message unti the judge protected her
I can imagine it. I think what we need to remember now though is that Ireland's father has been exposed. The whole world knows how he acted. Ireland is fortunate that she has a mother that doesn't cower to the abuse and is working hard to protect her from her. She's getting validated from lots of sources while she is still a child that this type of behavoir is wrong. One of the people reporting the story said that Ireland was fine with the story being released. That shows strength on her part and is evidence that she is understanding while she's still a child how horrible his behavoir is.
This news story illuminated my 11 year old life to me. In the middle of the night I dreamt about an experience from the spring of my 7th grade year. I was 12. This story had taken me directly back to that age. There was something that I wanted to do, that the other girls in my class (all five of them) were going to do but my parents said no. They said no in a way to make clear that my desire was flawed and below our social status. Nevermind that others in my class were their friends children.
((((GS)))) Your parents were wrong. And I know you know that but it takes a while for the feelings to catch up. Try to trust the process. Healing is a process that takes time. And when you catch yourself feeling flawed, talk soothingly to yourself. Remind yourself how far you've come. It may not work the first or second or 20th time, but it will begin to eventually.
I don't know what to do with all of this - the loneliness is excruciatingly painful.
You are not alone. I feel it too. I feel it each time I pass by Mammaw's old room. I feel it each time I have to interact with my mother. I feel it each time my father closes his eyes to how she treats her children. I feel lonely and flawed and defective too. Healing takes time. You will make it. You are not alone.
I chose to believe that this is part of the process of opening up the past for the healing light to shine in.
Me too. The process takes time. It's a path we have to walk... a journey we are taking. You are going to be okay. Ireland is going to be okay. It feels lonely but we are not alone.
((((GS))))
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But I just said everything I could about it and still get through my day today
((((CB))))
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GS, thank you for your kindness above. Especially because I was a bit 'short' with you elsewhere here, a few days ago, out of my own physical pain and sheer human foolishness. Thank you very, very much, for taking up the best of me, and letting the rest of me - rest. ((((()))))
Please don't despair regarding this topic. I think a lot of folks are close to overload, with all that has happened this week, especially the events in Virginia. And at least in my part of the world this episode with Baldwin has not been much broadcast or talked about.
I think this topic dovetails with the events in Virginia too. More and more information is coming out about the way the shooter was treated, in grade school, in high school, remorselessly and relentlessly bullied, and no adult ever did anything about it. Doesn't matter whether they lacked the guts or lacked the brains, what matters is that nobody ever did anything, with results that all can now see clearly today.
We can hope desperately that someone will now do something about it in the case of Baldwin's daughter, at least.
(((((((((CB))))))))) - can you get your boys cameraphones? Anything that puts this monster's behavior on record gives you leverage. Verbal testimony can be minimized and spun, but an actual recording is pretty hard to lie about and trivialize.
Edit in: GS, on a more personal note, I understand the feeling of 'twisting in the wind' when you put up a post and nobody, or almost nobody, responds. I end up pulling mine when that happens, because it only seems to happen when I've taken a real risk, exposed a real vulnerability, etc., and I'm not willing to do that unsupported. Not suggesting that you pull this thread by any means - just letting you know that I do know how you feel, but the evidence that would prove it is mostly not here because I've taken it down.
((((((((((GS))))))))))
((((((((((MS)))))))))) you are so right... we are not alone. Not any longer. It's just that, sometimes, it still feels that way...
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Gaining Strength,
I'm interested in the topic, and I played the clip as soon as I saw it. I'm extremely interested in the topic, but I'm more interested in you- so thank you for coming back and posting what you did. It took a lot of courage to be so vulnerable.
Much like others reactions, it is still taking me a bit to process my ideas related to it. But your feelings about it are more than just ideas. I did not recognize your need by what you wrote, and I wish I would have, but I think you'll forgive me.
And as far as writing ability, I think you have it also. I have admired both you and Stormchild in that respect (as well as some others).
As a matter of fact, you have also inspired me to address something else when I have a bit more time, and it will require me being vulnerable again.
cats paw
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GS:
Your words touch me so much. The same has happened to me. That is why I stopped posting. I guess what hurts us and we are interested is different what the rest of the group is interested. I did not want to shape my posts into something that would be interesting to others. Either we match or we don't. So, now I post very few things. And I take a long time to go see if somebody was interested so I do not get disappointed. Which is not goo either because we should respond as soon as possible to the few who took the time to read and write to us in response to our pain. Anyway, I am not making any sense. It is maybe we are different. Not better or worse, just different.
Love you GS.
God bless you all.
Lupita
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Doggone it Lupita!! :)
I was trying to get myself peeled off the computer and I read your post! Did you see I did respond to what you posted on "The Bad Mommy Taboo" ?
You are making a lot of sense. I think it's genuine that you do not shape your posts to be of interest to others, and realistic to say either we match or we don't.
One of the reasons I lurked for so long was because of my computer and typing deficits; I knew that I would want to include everyone, that I would want to address each and every person each time they addressed me, or that I would want to reply to something that tugged at my heart every time I read it. Not only is that not possible, I know that this is a group of people, and we share it. It's also an anonymous internet support group which is totally different from a 3D group or even internet groups that meet at regular times.
That said, I think for the most part, this is a group of remarkably intelligent, caring, responsible, growth-seeking individuals. I think the group as a whole tends to be very inclusive, and overall a pretty safe place to be. I don't see a lot of the "flaming" that has happened.
So, Lupita- thanks for the addition of your voice.
cats paw
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Lupita,
I just don't know what to say. Well I should of said I was sorry for your pain. I should of just acknowledged that I hear you. I do Lupita, I really do. I have never experienced these things so I don't want to comment on something I don't know what I'm talking about but I know you suffered with the things that was said to you.
It was wrong.
Love
Deb
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I've been trying to wrap my mind around this whole mess. Baldwin's rage was scary, to say the least.
I haven't heard much about mother and daughter but I believe mother is trying hard to protect her daughter.and something I read about daughter made me feel that she was 'ready for him'.
If he has never struck his d'ter then this emotional abuse will be very hurtful anyway.
It saddens me, as this board is not the only bunch who, in this world, have suffered horrible physical and mental pain.
........and I woould hate to think this was done as a publicity stunt.... but it's the first I knew of the history of the custody battle.
Izzy
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Ah, note the nasty swipe being taken at Mommy now. "Pathologically incapable" indeed.
I'd say we have a very clear picture of who the pathological one is, and it's not the mother.
Edit in: and the 'sadness' about the information being released? Classic N reaction to having their viciousness exposed.
Ya know.... I'm real hesitant to point fingers at either parent as the N apparent, in this scenario. It seems to me that the N's are the people driving pothers into behavior this crazy. For all I know.... Kim's an N and she's driven her ex insane, lol. N's seem to be more stealthy and their victims seem to be the ones running about looking angry and crazy, kwim?
Having said that..... I'm sad for the child and hope neither parent is an N. Perhaps this is the typical post mating ritualistic dance of most divorces..... sacraficing our children to the God's of Hate and Vengeance? Hard to say, really. Margo
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Hi everyone,
I feel grateful for technology that is able to record things so maybe some of the abuse will stop.
Baldwin went from razzle - dazzle to frizzle - frazzle! Maybe this will change the hearts of those (if there are others besides him) who are hurting Ireland. She's old enough to observe and remember the changes (if any) that come from this. And if she chooses, tell her story someday. I can't imagine the affects this will have on her personal day to day life with her peers. It has to be an embarrassing and tough place for her.
How many broken hearts can burden a culture before it sees the light? I know these lyrics reach for the ideal and that peace on earth will never be, but this song came to mind as I've thought of recent eventsl
Let there be peace on earth
and let it begin with me.
Let there be peace on earth
the peace that was meant to be.
With God as our father
brothers all are we.
Let me walk with my brother
in perfect harmony.
Let peace begin with me
let this be the moment now.
With every step i take
let this be my solemn vow.
To take each moment
and live each moment
with peace eternally.
Let ther be peace on earth,
and let it begin with me.
(child)
Let there be peace on earth
and let it begin with me.
Let there be peace on earth
the peace that was meant to be.
With god as our father
brothers all are we.
Let me walk with my brother
in perfect harmony.
Let peace begin with me
let this be the moment now.
With every step I take
let this be my solemn vow.
To take each moment
and live each moment
in peace eternally.
Let there be peace on earth
and let it begin with me.
fade out...
tt
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There is a sadness in me that few here are at all interested in this topic. It is one that touches the very dark ploaces that brought me here. I have been feeling a little alienated lately as though my interests are mine alone. Sometimes I pour my heart out on a post and get no response at all. And when I view that logically it makes perfect sense but in my wounded heart it is deeply painful - another example of not fitting in and not fitting in here is painful indeed because here is a load of people who are compassionate and empathetic. So if I am alone here, if my words and my concerns fall on deaf ears here then I am truly alone.
I know this sounds like a strange reaction to posting on a topic that others are simply not interested in but this topic goes to the core of the Nism that I grew up with and I realize that I am alone in it. I lived in such fear and with such a crushed spirit and was so unaware of it. I knew that none of my desires would come to fruition and internalized that my desires were flawed.
Can you imagine the fear that child was in from the time she received that message unti the judge protected her. The fear that she would pay the price of a full day of rage from her father "showing her". I lived in that fear with each and every mistake that I made and I weep that I have not been able to put that fear aside. Instead I have learned to be paralyzed from fear of mistakes and have learned to condemn and criticized myself and expect flaws and expect condemnation and expect rejection.
This news story illuminated my 11 year old life to me. In the middle of the night I dreamt about an experience from the spring of my 7th grade year. I was 12. This story had taken me directly back to that age. There was something that I wanted to do, that the other girls in my class (all five of them) were going to do but my parents said no. They said no in a way to make clear that my desire was flawed and below our social status. Nevermind that others in my class were their friends children.
I don't know what to do with all of this - the loneliness is excruciatingly painful. I chose to believe that this is part of the process of opening up the past for the healing light to shine in. I am ready to heal and longing to heal. I believe in healing. I see it all around me here.
I experience the message by Alec Baldwin as life crushing and the split reaction to it to be reflective of our society. I am heartened by the sizable reaction of shock. I am so surprised that there is hardly a wrinkle of reaction here of all places.
(((())))) I think many here are dealing with overwhelming emotions and situations that make it hard to post consitently. I know that's the case for me, at least.
I honestly don't know what kind of mother Kim is.... or what kind of father Alec's been through the years so I'm hesitant to really judge. For all I know... .both parents are N's or using the child to jerk each other around. That doesn't excuse his behavior, of course but..... I can understand being driven crazy by someone who's been doing terrible and unfair things to me for years.... that no one else could see or would believe if they knew about. margo
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There is a sadness in me ----etc.
I am truly sorry for what this episode had done to you, GS.
I expect most people view this in different ways. I told my Therapist about my view and she was the same as I--------------so I no longer worried about not crying my eyes out for days. Life goes on and it will for others the day I die!
Sometimes I, too, have something to say, and if the responses are few, then I expect I typed it in an not understandable way.,
My daughter says she doesn't understand what I say!
I told her, that come therapy, I "would do it my way, now!" This was because I had been doing all this research! She misunderstood because I didn't repeat about all the research and what I had learned SO.................. took it as my being controlling.
Mistakes can be made but Baldwin's voice recording is not a fake.
I sent a cheque to my daughter for Valentines's Day. I finally wrote to her about her inabillity to acknolwedge a gift. She didn't say anything about that until finally on MARCH 3, she opened her mail to find the chequethen e-mailed a thank you--------------from Feb 14th she doesn't open her mail-????--------------I don't believe it! I cannot believe she lied!!!!!
Take Care . GS
My therpist says that sometimes we can be more worried about things "at home" Like what do we do when a strange 'boy/soldier' dies in Iraq? We know nothing about him, can say a prayer for his soul, and his grieving parents, and never know his name but......................the toast is burning and the kid just fell down the stairs......we forget the unknown soldier and.......................................life goes on!
Love
Love
Love
Izzy
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Remember that movie Alex Baldwin was in. Forgot the movie but he's on trial, he's a big surgeon and they say to him. You think you are God and he replies, No I am God!!
Big N? maybe.
Hmm,
Love
Deb
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((((((((((((((((((((((((((GS)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
As Cat's Paw said, I am not drawn to focus on the Baldwin story. I loathe bullies. But I do care about what your bullying parents have done to you. And what you do to yourself. I don't respond to things often, sometimes it's because I have a dozen threads to read and I know I can't type on all of them.
I understand what it's like to take things personally. I hope you'll read When Things Fall Apart by Pema Chodron.
Stormy, I agree with you so much, and I am sobered by the deep viciousness of the bullying you went through.
CB, your boys are on their way to full-grown. And one day, I hope they stand nose to nose with him and tell him what they think of him. (If they're even still in touch....) I am so sorry for what all of you went through, so proud to know you and learn from your rebellion (never ever too late to be beautiful)...
love from a sleepy
Hops
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gaining strength,
You are gaining strength by pointing out how you feel about not being responded too. Boy, that takes courage. I care how you feel. Sometimes I need to be woken up to notice. That is sad but true.
I am thankful that you put the info about Alec Baldwin and his horrible whining and badgering of his 11 year old daughter. Posting it here helps to show what a sick bastard he is. As for the damage he has done to his daughter........ that is incalculable. And she has probably heard this can't of rant many times. The poor kid. there is nothing that can prepare a child for that kind of soul destroying name calling.
I shudder to think that you experienced the same kind of verbal abuse as a child. Hearing this on the tape must have triggered the horror for you. I am sitting here trying to think of what to say that could help. You are valuable and no one ever ever deserves to be torn apart verbally. It is the person who is haranguing that is off base and psychotic.
Alec Baldwin says that people tell him that he is no different than many other parents he knows. Hmmmm, isn't that lovely and affirming for him,,,,,, the friends must be arrogant, ignorant weenies like him. As I listened to the tape I thought that AB was sounding infantile and petulant. He wanted his daughter to meet his emotional needs and was completely oblivious to his daughter's needs. This is such a classic situation. The little kid frozen and listening patiently and calmly to the insane parent while the child shatters inside. There is no where to hide and no place of safety developed inside the child where they can buttress against such tyranny and evil.
I hope that Ireland has a place like this with people like here to hear her story. She will be believed. Many, many incidences will be forgotten by the time she is an adult but there will be a black hole of fear in her that will be triggered when she hears a man or woman lashing out, blaming, shaming, name-calling and trying to destroy. I hope that you can talk about that abuse that you experienced.
I remember a time when my daughter was five and i was leaving her to go to japan. I left her with her father. She got her arm caught in the elevator door and it was terrifying. He managed to get her arm out of the door and then he tore into her for being so stupid. WHat a fool and a stupid ass he was. She was so little in her nice little dress all dressed up for daddy with a little purse and all. She loved him and he was destroying her. Years later I asked her if she remembered getting her arm caught in the elevator and she couldn't recall it. I thank god so much that she had the resilience to survive his cruelty.
I am thankful that you survived the cruelty that you experienced too GS. talk about it. Thanks for posting the incident of the abusive father. Thanks for the wake up call.
I am also wondering about he family dynamics in this case. Baldwin has been exposed as a frightening bully and out of control anger addict. There are some pretty dark things going on in that family and I can only hope that the deadly triangle will see some light shone on it after this exposure. How does healing happen in such a family. How can Ireland become safe from all this? How can Alec and his ex begin to heal?
Sea Storm
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To everyone here who feels the pain I wish comfort and strength
RE: A Baldwin/Kim
And once again the child suffers.
axa
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Baldwin's rant is so similar to the many vitriolic rants my ex did it's eery. One time in particular I remember my daughter was in grade school maybe 3rd grade and she drew a self portrait to be displayed during parent teacher conferences. The parent (my ex went in for the 1 time in his life) was supposed to pick out the portrait of their child. Well he picked the wrong one. Of course she was crestfallen. All it took was her sad expression to throw him into a rage. "I work my ASS off all day for you. Then I go to your STUPID parent teacher conference and I have to pick out your STUPID picture. When I get it wrong, I get THIS TREATMENT from you!" ETC, ETC.
1. Unjustified anger at levels far above what's normal.
2. Blaming the victim
3. There's always some little kernel of truth in there that's desperate for his own attention (I work so hard...) For Baldwin it was "feel sorry for me I'm alienated".
Yes, this is most definitely destructive, toxic, hurtful narcissism. The man needs therapy and the child needs therapy to deal with her pain.
Dandylife
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Hi, old friends and new posters.
I heard about the AB, recording and ran to the site to see if anyone was posting on this subject. So thank you for posting and just to comment on those that don't find intrest in certain post.
This board is for you to get help part of that is to expect what you have to say may appeal to others more strongly than others and just move on if you don't hit a nerve. Getting hurt or being offended is a waste your time and does not benefit anyone. This hit a nerve for me so thank you for posting.
I recently kept a letter from N, from my 14yo D regarding the frustration N-dad was having with her because she does not call or wright him like he expects her to.
To bring those up to speed I was given full custody of our D almost 2 yrs ago and the courts found her N-Dad, was not to send her letters about his health or adult things as a 12 yo at the time she would not have the emotional maturity to be involved in knowing these things. So I check his letters and sometimes I let her read them and sometimes I don't.
When I heard the tape it hit a nerve for me , how my own D, if she had read this last letter would have understood just how much SHE had insulted him etc. She somehow was not cabable of picking up a pin to write him or call him.
As I hear the news people, talk about AB, that he did go WAY over the line in calling his young daughter names.However, he was upset and this was a simple anger problem because of the divorce process.
I'm horrified wishing others were more aware of the deep rooted N problem he has.
How HE was so insulted and how SHE was less than human. I would hope this gets blown into more awareness as a mental N-illness and not resolved with a temporary anger management class. I understand the fear the mother Kim, must have and wanted others to understand.
So she was scream for othe to hear and know this may have been a mild outburst.
I felt this way when I was struggling for custody, I wanted the courts to understand the emotional abuse (never physical ) until the last days when he said he would stop me from moving to TX with a gun! You want others to understand how UN-beliveable the N can be.
Only if you have lived through life with an N can you image !
What she did was a cry for help to protect her daughter and herself.
Could you image what she was thinking the fear of his wrath and how to keep him from playing out his threats when he arrived for his young Ds, BIRTHDAY!
Along with deaths in the Virginia Tech College, mental illness in this country needs to addressed.
I think if AB, is going to have a Physic testing, he may play it different next time. He may be more passive aggressive or find away to get his anger across in time get his N out
My Ex even with the courts instructions to him not to write harmful thoughts to my D, he behaves for awhile but his N behavior is so deep rooted he finds away to get his sick thoughts out to her.
My Ex can not see my D without first having a Physic Test done , that has not happened and I don't expect he will ever have it. He often tells D, he will see her when she is 18 yo.
I'm so sad for the VT families and pray there will be emotional healing soon.
My Dad is coming into town today for a 1st time visit busy and must go !
take care OR
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GS,
I do understand your fear and processing childhood trauma.
Sweet little Ireland will have a hard road .But I am sure there are gifts of wisdom and tenderness that will surly come her way.
I saw her mom Kim on a t.v. show once speaking of her panic attacks and the times she (Kim) did not wish to leave her home.(when married to mr. Balwin)
Surly Kim is trying to protect her child ...................what parent calls their 11 year old a pig???????
So hard to understand .....and sad...................
love to you GS
p.s your posts have helped me and I thank you .........
moon
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There are 2 topics here and I guess I wanted to address the 2nd one, too, as it is probably even more important than the surface one of "Alec Baldwin's rant". GS was triggered by it, as was I, as were many of us.
GS, you identify so much with Ireland, the daughter, on the receiving end of this n-istic spew.
That's the whole ball game here.
We are all here because this spew has touched us all. This is one huge media circus because it was caught on tape - something that most times went on behind the scenes, with no one to judge, no one to call as wrong.
GS, you were hurt so badly as a child and you probably never received the validation that Ireland is getting now. You deserve it just as much.
Sending you love, validation, hugs, and warmth. Something your N was incapable of.
Dandylife.
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Dandylife - thankyou. I haven't said anything here for a couple of days because I have been deeply touched and cannot possibly respond adequately and so I haven't figured out how to respond at all. The most significant thing for me to say is that as I was writing the post in which I made the point of how isolated I felt I started to erase the whole thing before I posted. I expected to get some responses that expressed irritation or frustration at my post but that didn't happen at all.
At the same time I was taking in this whole remarkable thread I have been dealing with my N father for several hours a day for three days in a row. It was a very strange juxtaposition of life. The thing that has struck me most of all is that this is the first time in my life that I have been able to say I didn't get what I needed and the response I got was one of comfort and kindness and understanding. I wasn't asking anyone to do things differently but I was just saying that I was saddened and yet so many dear kind people reached out. I simply cannot get over it. It is the most extraordinary thing I think I have ever experienced.
I have experienced validation here that is beyond anything I could have imagined. Thanks - that doesn't really say much but no words can. - GS
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GS,
It is the most extraordinary thing I think I have ever experienced.
Beautiful!
tt
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Dandylife, thank you for your wisdom and kindness.
So grateful to you for your post here.
GS, I'm deeply happy to hear that you spoke, USED YOUR VOICE, in your 3-D life too.
That is wonderful!
love
Hops
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Hello to all,
I haven't been posting lately but the Alec Baldwin rant really rattled me on so many levels. My children suffered far worse verbal abuse from their father but I didn't stop it. I'm out of the situation but they still get his rants and rages. They are all over 16 so they can walk away when they don't like how he is behaving but they suffered thru a childhood of walking on eggshells. It is scary to me that at some of the websites that allow posting about the story people defend Alec's behavior. "The daughter ticked him off, the mother turned the child against the father, we all have the right to vent our anger ." There is an entire sick population out there that sees nothing wrong with calling names and being verbally abusive. Alec's apology wasn't about what he said and how he was sorry he lost control but rather it was that he was sorry the general public heard his rant. I remember my husband berated me about something ridiculous then realized my friend was there and had heard his abuse. He apologized for abusing me within earshot of someone else not for the abuse. I remember being so hurt that he didn't care if he had been abusive but rather that someone had heard it. It really made the abuse feel intentional vs. rash behavior that you can't control
I asked my oldest if he had heard the tape. He said his friends were shocked but he had been on the end of much worse tirades. I apologized for not protecting him better as a child. The tape also brought back my childhood and my mother's horrible rants on what a useless child I was. I hope this incident gives more mothers and fathers the courage to take action against their abusive spouses. I think it would have had a profound, eyeopening experience for me if it had happened 15 years ago. It would have made it clear that verbal abuse is grounds for zero visitation.
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Gap - I relate to your post. It is appalling that so many defend him but I am thankful that this has been exposed as abuse. I suspect there are many, many of us who related to receiving the abuse as your son did, as you did. You write:
The tape also brought back my childhood and my mother's horrible rants on what a useless child I was.
and I completely relate to this. My father didn't use language like Baldwin but more like your mother but I did live in a fear of him - not of bodily injury but of complete control and domination and yet I loved him and longed to please him - classic behavior of abused. Without realizing it I took in completely the message of useless and worthlessness and became powerless. I suspect that you felt powerless to protect your children but that powerlessness was deeply buried in your subconscious. Is that possible? - Gaining Strength
PS - since this tape was released I have been having dreams set in childhood where I am powerless and reacting in rage resulting in isloation and rejection. So much has been stirred up.
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hi GS, hon.
I just had an odd thought: do you think it's possible that you explore your past wounds so deeply, and linger in them until you've excavated and relived every trace of pain...because in a healthy, defiant way, you discovered something that you're GOOD at, which is suffering? (The followup question would be, do you think you explore your pain because that's your life skill? If that feels true, I think you have other unexcavated skills, so many...)
It was not done in your family. To peel back the surface and dive in. And in your bravery, you've broken out of that limitation.
I also wonder, whether the suffering has become your identity. Does it feel that way?
You aren't a walking wound to me. You're an intelligent, interesting woman, insightful and warm, who loves her son, is frustrated about stuck things that won't move until you move them, and who deals with it all with a lot of consciousness and courage.
Hugs
Hops
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No hops - I explore them in an attempt to get at the thing that has caused me to be stuck. I have not been able to will myself unstuck. The Baldwin thing has shone a light on it for me that helps me understand how paralyzing the humiliation was and I experienced it over and over and over.
I go back to it to try to get free.
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Hi GS,
Remember good old Socrates? "An unexamined liffe is a wasted life" and "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance."
I have gone gack over my life time and time again in order to come to some answer to what has gnawed at me for almost 68 years. I am different from my sibs. After all my therapy, I realized I depended on the therpaist to dig out the answer, but it was a job I should have been doing myself.
Now I know how disconnected I am from self, how unfeeling from hiding, but I have retraced those steps so many times to get to the bottom of it!
So many times we hear "Stop living in the past". I have always referred to my past as a guidepost, but until I understood it, it didn't help me at all.
Can you see our parents in therapy?
Later
and
Love
Izzy
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CB I'm sorry you are concerned. I understand. The insane thing about the article you site is that it has absolutely nothing to do with the Baldwin situation. It is about bashing divorced men.
The title is: Alec Baldwin: Monster or Alienated Parent?
but the point of the article is completely expressed in the last paragraph:
The media automatically cast divorced parents in the roles of villainous father and heroic mother. Many mothers are heroic, but so are many fathers. But a divorced mother as the villain? Heaven forbid!
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CB,
I'm sure my husband is totally sympathizing with poor old Alec, he rips into the kids whenever he feels they disrespect him (look at him the wrong way, accept a second soft drink at dinner without checking if it is free refills, won't do what he wants when he wants, don't run over to see him when they arrive in town). The problem is when people hear news stories they see it from their own point of view. Sure, we all yelled at our kids, maybe even said something we didn't mean. If you don't understand narcissim and all the classic signs this situation exhibits you could feel bad for the alienated Dad who is fed up with the controlling and crazy Mom. If you've lived with a narcissist that tape was all to familiar. Dad feels disrespected therefore rage. His message is about how he feels, you've humiliated me for the last time, you won't treat me like this again. His apoligy was not to his daughter for the hurtful things he said and his anger management but that he was sorry it had been released because having the tape go public could hurt his daughter, his message didn't hurt his daughter it was the release of the tape that hurt his daughter, he is a gem.
Although the tape has dredged up bad memories it has also reminded me I choose not to be part of abusive relationships anymore and although my kids are still dealing with their dad they are in a much better place in that they when they are with me it is peaceful, loving, supportive and fun.
GAP
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I'm real hesitant to point fingers at either parent as the N apparent, in this scenario
I'm not, Margo.
I would agree with you if he had called his wife a pig--I probably wouldnt have even bothered to read the story because I don't give a flip about celebrity name-calling.
But he called his daughter a pig. There isnt any amount of crazy-making that my NH could do that would drive me to call my child a pig. My NH used the excuse that I "drove" him to bad behavior. Nonsense. We are all responsible for our own actions.
Amy Carmichael said once that if a glass is full of pure water, jiggling it will cause pure water to spill. If it is full of poison, then jiggling it will cause posion to spill. Or as someone else famous once said: man speaks out of the overflow of his heart.
Baldwin not only verbally abused his daughter, he threatened her with more of the same (or worse?) when he saw her next. Sorry, no excuses. No mercy.
CB
I'm not excusing him.... I think I'm reacting from the fluff and stuff in the news when Kim and Alec were both terrors during their courtship and subsequent marriage and break up. They were, neither of them, nice people in those reports.
If my husband took my girls and consistently turned them against me.... consistently made it impossible for me to have scheduled phone contact when I was really looking forward to it....... I'd lose my sanity a bit, for sure. Not saying I'd verbalize it to my child but..... I'm not Alec and I don't know where he's been, KWIM? He may be an N.... he may be a victim responding to an N, mixing his dd up with Kim in his craziness. I don't know and I'm very sad for the child. If Kim is an N or something similar.... then I'm doubly heartbroken for the child. I think it's very common for parents to rip their children apart in a divorce.... mother's included. That custody dispute always smacked of both parents conducting themselves poorly. Margo
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I'm real surprised to see Alec all over the place giving interviews and chatting up his relationship with dd. How horrified she must be! Is he trying to save his career and public image..... or his relationship with his dd? Margo
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Boy, abusive Ns really hate the revealing daylight, don't they???
towrite
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At the risk of being confrontational I want to address your post at reply#37 Hops.
you discovered something that you're GOOD at, which is suffering? (The followup question would be, do you think you explore your pain because that's your life skill? I also wonder, whether the suffering has become your identity. Does it feel that way?
It took several days for me to realize that my reaction to your words was shame. I do think that it says something about you rather than me but it was quite jarring and silencing to read a post that repeatedly (3 times) identified me with suffering. There could really be no good intended by these jabs. The words are quite demeaning and for one who has suffered shame from my very inception they tend to reinforce that sense of being flawed to the core.
Why on a board about voicelessness would you accost anyone for expressing their own deep pain? That seems so odd.
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GS, I am so very sorry.
Looking at the phrases in bold feels like an insensitive slap to me too.
Good god.
I had an observation, but that was so blunt and clumsy. You are right it's about me, and it was largely projection. Damn. Please forgive me if you can.
I have strong memories of times when I identified so very strongly with my overwhelming emotional pain that in a sense my pain WAS my identity. And at that time, it almost felt like a skill. I was GOOD at facing and enduring and describing intense and persistent psychic pain. I think it's one reason I became a poet, because that was the first experience in my life where I felt full acceptance of myself, and all I had to express. Not the pretty stuff, but the real.
For me to have such an unaccepting reaction to yours, is a true failure. I'm very sorry. Thank you for telling me, for helping me see.
with love,
Hops
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Please forgive me if you can.
Absolutely - what a remarkable response - so full of kindness and validation. A reflection of your incredible goodness and inner strength. Not many people in this world would have responded the way you did. Thank you. - Gaining Strength
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well
It can work both ways
I can see that MY identity has been my all time dysfunction and I have been covering it up, yet I'm still one person.
What does this mean about ME?????????????????????
Thank you both
Izzy
EDIT: I think????
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EDIT: I think????
That's too deep for me to figure out Izzy. I think! - Gaining Strength
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GS and Hops-
Been waiting to see how this would go- I love happy endings!
cats paw
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Hops,
May I be next in line? I feel as though we have a serious unresolved issue, back from when I tried to discuss something with you and you weren't ready to hear or think about what I had to say. You will remember: instead of looking at what I actually said to you in private, you imagined, out of fear of judgement, what you were afraid I would say, and then you accused me of saying that to you, out in public.
What you thought I said, and accused me of saying, bore no resemblance at all to what I actually said to you. You didn't know what I actually said; you had no idea. So, I ended up having to post the PMs in question, in order to prove that I was not the monster you were portraying me as.
And then your initial response was to refuse to read them.
Eventually you came around, and did read them, and admitted that they weren't what you thought they were.
But I can't recall you ever telling me that you were sorry. For refusing to read them when they were private, and for essentially bearing false witness against me about them out here in public. For making up a story about me and coming here to tell it to everyone.
It's that deliberate misrepresentation that rankles. It jumps out in front of me whenever I see you speaking kindly to anyone here, and makes me think that kindness is only an act. How could I possibly think otherwise, with this huge unkindness remaining unaddressed?
I think we have both come a long long way in an amazingly short time, but I also know that I still have PMs from you blocked, and as I recall, you also still have me blocked. Which is fine; I only need to be burned once to learn what not to touch. I hardly PM anyone, and I prefer it that way.
But you know - you've never really fessed up to what I think you tried to do to me here, and I wish you would. These days you're keeping short books, and it's truly admirable, but there's one account that is still desperately in need of balancing.
I would like to have the same opportunity to forgive you that I see you now extending to everybody you wrong here - and that's not many people - except - for some strange reason - me.
And yes, I do wish there had been enough trust restored between us, that I could have said this to you privately.
Edit in: and yes. Even more, I do want to forgive you.
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I remember, Storm.
I know you didn't see it that way, but I did and do maintain that anyone has the right not to read something that disturbs them or causes too much pain. Even when it frustrates the other. I'm sorry it hurt you that I didn't want your PMs about my relationship with my daughter. I really was in pure self-protection mode. (That doesn't make you a monster, it was just a boundary I had to set.) But I am sorry for the whole episode. It was painful.
I hope there can be forgiveness even when there is disagreement.
I think sometimes a person can ask another for an apology, in such a way that it sounds like:
"I ask you to apologize to me for my opinion of you." That's a tough one. "Bearing false witness, making up a story, and deliberate misprepresentaion" are not how I see myself. I was doing my honorable best to explain why I was protecting my heart, and how, and may have done a terrible job of it. But there it was.
What I can say, wholeheartedly, is that I hold no grudges, Storm. I've enjoyed reading your posts and have been glad we've had bits of gentle dialogue.
I hope even though I don't capitulate to your interpretation of events, I hope it's possible for you to forgive me anyway if you'd like to.
How are your feet?
Hops
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They hurt, Hops, but at least it's honest pain.
If this is the best you can do, that's just the way it has to be, I guess.
It does help, just not the way I had hoped it would. It's always good to know where one stands.
It's also helped me make peace with a personal decision I made earlier this week, involving setting a boundary; for that I thank you.
Storm
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Thanks for accepting me where I am for now, Stormy.
I do appreciate it. It's not easy to do that.
I'm glad we're posting, and I'm glad for a fresh start.
Hops
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I want to say that suffering had become part of my identity. I felt as if there was some honour in suffering, as if it was a noble option. I feel differently now. It has taken me a long time, and with a lot of help from people on this board, to realise that at some unconscious level I choose to be a victim. Of course I had been groomed for this role in my childhood but continued to hang onto it in adult life. I was not aware.
For me there is a significant link between my victimhood and my relationship with Ns. I am glad to say that I am purposely moving from this position and it feels like quite a release. Awareness, examining my life, therapy, posting on this board, taking responsibility for myself, struggling with growing up have been the elements which have helped me move along the road. Not there yet but clearer and hopeful.
THank you all,
axa
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This morning, I saw an excerpt from "The View" where Baldwin apologized to "everyone he offended". HE HAS YET TO APOLOGIZE TO HIS DAUGHTER!!!!! As far as I am concerned, Alec Baldwin IS THE THOUGHTLESS LITTLE PIG!
Bones
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I think that the cultural norms in Indian allow for NO on screen PDA and while here - we can't get away from it - there it is still shocking a la 1950s culture here. - GS
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I want to say that suffering had become part of my identity. I felt as if there was some honour in suffering, as if it was a noble option. I feel differently now. It has taken me a long time, and with a lot of help from people on this board, to realise that at some unconscious level I choose to be a victim. Of course I had been groomed for this role in my childhood but continued to hang onto it in adult life. I was not aware.
Axa, thank you so much. You are so right; we are taught that suffering is not merely our inevitable lot in life, but that our job is to find ways to raise it to the stature of an art form.
One thing I finally figured out: If you want to see what a culture REALLY thinks is worth doing and having, look at the things the most powerful members of the group reserve as their OWN privileges. Not the things they try to brainwash you into valuing; the things THEY demand as a god-given right.
And look at the things that are actually rewarded. For instance - if our culture really valued children, and really valued education, then day-care providers and teachers would be knocking down six figure salaries, and professional athletes would be bringing home $20K a year, and holding day jobs.
In that context, you don't see very many folks who have the wherewithal to choose... choosing the kind and degree of suffering that they advocate for others. Talk about a "racket"!
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CB
Thank you for writing your post. I feel as if I am moving in a similiar direction as you. I am so BORED with being a victim. I am clear that I do not want to go there ever again. Before I dumped XN a lot of my paintings were filled with symbols that I now interpret as victim like........... a cross for example. I think in making these paintings I projected what was going on inside. I have one of the paintings in my kitchen, look at it daily and say never again.
Storm,
I so agree with what you say about what society values and it sure aint the kids.
axa
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CB, Axa...
Me too.
I can have pain, I can have disappointments, I can have complaints...
and they come and they go.
But if "victim" is no longer part of what I see in the mirror, life is a better adventure.
Hops
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Hops,
I think this is sooooooooooooooooo significant. It has put a different spin on the world for me. Last night I was asked to a party, which probably would have been fun but felt if I went I would probably have had a few too many glasses of wine, that kind of party and decided I would prefer not to go. There was a time when I would have felt, poor me, I am not going because I won't know enough people there, I may not have fun blah blah blah.......... very victim stuff. Instead I decided that I wanted to get up early this morning and work in my garden and I guess I was not interested enough to spend an evening at this party. Now that is a big jump for me. I am taking responsibility for my feelings.
The shift, I believe, is me moving into adult mode. I am often unsure. Once I had a thought that I have spent so much of my life banging my head off the wall and not being able to figure out that it hurts. Think I am beginning to see the walls and stay away from them. A bit rambling but hope you get my meaning.
axa
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It appears that Alec Baldwin is not the only N among the rich and famous. On other message board, I read about a possible N-attempt by one N-Heather Mills, who is planning to produce a cartoon titled "The McFartneys" where she portrays herself as the "poor, put-upon housewife". PUH-LEEZE!!!! Is that Narcissistic or what?!?!?
Bones
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Axa I sure DO get your meaning.
It's a quiet inner genuine shift that's seismic.
I feel joy for you about this.
:D :D :D
love
Hops
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Thanks for accepting me where I am for now, Stormy.
I do appreciate it. It's not easy to do that.
I'm glad we're posting, and I'm glad for a fresh start.
Hops
Well, Hoppy, bless your little pea-pickin' heart, you can't help it! I was pushing you to do something that's just beyond what you feel you can manage right now.
That's just the way it is. I do understand, and I think it took a lot of courage for you to admit this. I'm here and ready to meet you halfway, when you feel ready to deal with this.
[Edit in: revised to use more egalitarian language.]
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CB, you weren't here for this:
http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=3404.msg56404;topicseen#msg56404
you weren't a board member at the time.
Read it; consider that Hops has made no amends to me for this since November of last year; read what Hops said to me above, when I asked her to apologize for it; then I think you will congratulate me on my patience and longsuffering.
Hops has said she is simply not capable of apologizing to me for having done me a grievous wrong. I have two ways to deal with that.
Either I can decide that she is on some kind of power trip, being deliberately cruel to me and taking pleasure from it, while deliberately rubbing my nose in her graciousness towards others she has wronged [this is a ricochet transaction, and very unhealthy if true]
or I can decide that she is being honest with me, and she is simply not capable of accepting responsibility for this specific past behavior and making amends to me for it.
I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt. Extensively. I'm assuming she actually wants to reach a point where she will be capable of making appropriate amends. And that she is able to see that in this situation, amends are warranted and long overdue.
Please make sure you are in possession of all the pertinent facts, before you judge someone.
And by the way, I came back and revised my post above before I read yours.
Hops hurt me badly in November, and hurt me badly again just above, and it took me several days to reach the point where I could accept the possibility that she really isn't malicious, she's just not capable of doing better than this. Right now. With me. For some reason.
Because she has made huge progress. She used to simply refuse to read anything that might be the least bit critical of her; she's come a long way from that, she can now read and respond to appropriate confrontations that she would have announced she was ignoring entirely, six months ago.
I had hoped that she had come far enough to be able to address our unfinished business. Not yet.
I realized that too much of my hurt was coming through still in that post above. I've done what I can about that. But it's awfully hard on me to expect me to carry the entire load, both hers and mine, for six months and counting at this point, while being superhumanly impervious to pain, isn't it?
Yes it is.
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Storm,
Will you please leave me alone?
I believe you that it really hurt when I rebuffed your probing and advice six months ago. I am sorry that I hurt you. I did not mean to hurt you. I was deeply upset and could not accept your PM comments about my greatest sorrow. If you want to mutter and imply and hint and suggest that someone else is not to be trusted, is not what they appear to be, you can do that.
Who did this to you Stormy? Who pilloried you? I believe you did not deserve it.
I don't want to defend myself against you again. I won't. I understand that saying No to you was a challenge but you were speaking about my relationship to my child in a way that I couldn't take. It's painful to see all that purple again, but you often post old threads when a new group of members has settled in a while. Anyway, that's the decision I made and you'll have to accept it. I realize it can spark rage.
You are very intelligent, accomplished and offer such fine information Stormy. I'm glad you started your blogs and I hope they have many readers. I do learn from your posts and I have a great deal of compassion for what you have lived through. I imagine it is far worse than anything I ever suffered. We're just not the right match as advisors for each other. Not all of us can be perfect advisors for all the rest.
We are all survivors, we all intend well, and we all have blind spots and deaf moments. I believe you that my blindness has banged onto your bruises, and caused you pain. I am truly sorry for that, Storm. I believe you felt really hurt, and I do not want you to be hurt. (Any more than I wanted to hurt GS the other day, god knows. I am thankful for her grace.)
I don't know what amends you are demanding Storm, I think they amount to: "I demand that you agree with my assessment of you." I don't. I am not wily, smarmy, or insincere. You can take offense over and over again, as often as you are compelled to. I think you have more creative things to do with your talents. I think you are a remarkable woman who can pour a lot of healing on this world, and I believe that is what you truly mean to do, almost all the time.
I want to let this go now. I spent my childhood accepting bullying as something I deserved. Regardless of my personal failings, hubris or mistakes, Storm, I do not deserve to be bullied. Or shamed, or ganged up on. Nobody does.
I am sorry for whatever's driving this, because I would like to think of you as powerful and competent as you are, not alone, and enjoying a happy, peaceful, safe life. In the embrace of loving friends and a gentle community. You deserve that and I'm sure you've earned it many times over.
You don't need me to validate your power or your wisdom, Storm. I am not disapproving, I am not vengeful. I just sincerely want you to leave me alone.
In peace,
Hops
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Back to Baldwin - yesterday I saw in the New York Times that he is giving up his acting to go on a crusade for alienated parents. I have no doubt that there are many parents who are alienated but I am certain that some have done the alienation themselves. What really gets me is how many people were not able to separate the issues of exposing the tape with the appalling abusive siatribe released by Baldwin.
If alienation has taken place it is a separate issue from Baldwin's abuse. I even saw Dr. Phil on Larry King say, "I'm not excusing Baldwin's language BUT...." He went on to say that he would gladly counsel with Baldwin and Kim and would explain to Baldwin why his language was not acceptable. What kind of misguided arrogance is that? Clearly the expect Dr. Phil is lost in his own bravado - he will "explain" to Baldwin and then all will be right. I have noticed that Dr. Phil operates as though everything is a surface, rational understanding without any concept that we all possess and function to some degree in our unconscious mind. It is appalling to me that he doesn't see through Baldwin's claims.
I believe that Baldwin feel alienated but he clearly refuses to see his role in it. His raging and subsequent apologies indicate a total lack of empathy for his daughter. In all the apologies I read he never offered one to his daughter for raging. That behavior is characterisctic of a Narcissist.
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I don't know how much longer aol will have this link up but here's the video on rosie O and Barbara's interview with Alec Baldwin:
http://news.aol.com/entertainment/tv/articles/_a/under-fire-baldwin-lashes-back-with-a/20070428090109990001
I haven't had much luck with the technical aspect of this website, so you will probably have to cut and paste that. Sorry!
Dandylife
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Thanks for giving the link for the interview. He is just pathetic. Watching him blame everyone but himself and claim he had never raised his voice before except in danger warning situations was just plain ridiculous. He sure feels bad for everyone that has written him that have been abused but he claims he is not an abuser....
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Gap I agree. Could anyone believe that he has only raised his voice in warning of danger. The give away of that lie is that he acknowledges that his rant should have been aimed at Kim. His coaches missed the concept that raging at his ex-wife is still raging .
I am slowly connecting how diminishing, how shaming it was to be raged at by my father, knowing that I would have to be in that situation over and over again.
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it's absurd - but a mirror of what I've experienced - very restimulating of emotional abuse
Yes, I agree Besee. That is what has captivated me about this story is that it is a mirror of what i have experienced. Thanks for your comment and the way you expressed it.
Each time I revisit this story and all the subplots I reexperience that outrage which actually comes out of my own powerlessness when I received shaming emotional abuse. I have to remind myself over and over that I have a choice of standing up in my own mind and denouncing Baldwin's behavior and those who say "yeah but" or falling prey to that powerlessness of shamed victimhood. When I remember that I have this choice I declare loudly and convincingly, "NO, this is wrong behavior, regardless of ANY actions by others. Abusive raging is ALWAYS wrong!"
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Before I say anything else, I need to state that I haven't read any posts on this thread or elsewhere on the board since Sunday. I have no idea what's been said pro or con regarding me or anyone else here at this point, if anything.
I don't need to, in order to say what I have to say here.
I went to bed on Sunday as fed up and just plain disgusted as I think I have ever been in my life, and I said a prayer before falling asleep to that exact effect: that I was as fed up and disgusted as I have ever been in my life.
I explicitly asked God to take from me any pain - physical or emotional - that wasn't a natural consequence of my health status, and any pain that wasn't 'earned'. I asked Him to remove any pain that came from 'negative energy' that I had not been the direct source of.
I woke up on Monday entirely pain free. No ulcer pain, no foot pain, no knee pain, no back pain, and no emotional pain.
I went in to work and the entire day went like silk. I planned to take today off [and have], and I didn't get sandbagged with something that forced me to cancel my vacation day; everything I tried to finish got done; not even the traffic was an impediment; and I had a spontaneous lunch date, to boot.
I know how I'm interpreting that...
Spent yesterday and most of today with this situation back-burnering on my mind. Without the pain, it was possible for me to see a lot of things more clearly, and I realized something VERY important.
My narcissistic sibling is a woman, and my narcissistic mother was a woman. As a result, I have extreme radar for any behavior on the part of other women, acting alone or in pairs, that reminds me of my sister or my mother [or the two of them teamed up] in any way. To any extent. However slight, however subtle.
I don't "see things that aren't there"; but I think I see things that are there with the visual acuity of a scanning tunneling electron microscope. And when I see them, sometimes my response to them has that exact effect: it magnifies them, brings them out in detail, larger than life.
At this point, I apologize for my remarks above, to the community here as a whole.
Each person here has their own history and their own perceptual filters and enhancers. Each person here has their own talents and their own limitations. When I share my perceptions in a teaching, explaining way, it's constructive. When I share them in a confronting, judging way, it's not.
That doesn't mean people have a right to abuse me and expect to get a 'free pass' on it; and it emphatically doesn't mean that anyone here has a right to abuse me, pretend it never happened, and expect me to enable that pretense.
But it does mean I will be trying to remain non-abusive myself when I decide it's time to call someone on that stuff, from now on.
And that, I think, fits very well with the original subject of this thread.
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After putting up my last post, I went for a walk. It is a beautiful evening, warm, no humidity. More like Oregon summer weather than mid-Atlantic sprawl spring.
And God whapped me one right upside the head, right in the middle of it.
I have been given an experience of grace, a genuine damn miraculous experience of grace, something that hasn't happened to me in many long years, and I almost squandered it.
I have been struggling for decades with the question of unilateral forgiveness, unable to grasp how it could be genuinely possible to let an issue go, truly put it out of sight and out of mind, without somehow being evasive, being in denial, colluding with the other party to 'paper it over' and endorse my being misused.
I have wanted an answer to that problem with all my heart. At least, I thought I did. Because Sunday night, I was given the answer, and I nearly wasted it.
The meaning of my release from pain has nothing to do with keeping score, here or anywhere else.
It is totally different from that.
The meaning of my release from pain was simply that God [as I understand Him] has that much power. That God [as I understand Him] can make me whole, regardless of my circumstances.
That unilateral forgiveness can be - IS! - a matter between God and myself, and nobody else, in the sense of healing the hurt.
I wasn't healed so that I'd have more energy available to me for obsessing about this in the future. I was healed so that I could forgive, release, and put this episode behind me, and move into a better future. Monday was a sample of what that future might hold for me, if I would just open myself up to it. I want that wholeness, I want that healing, I want that future, whatever it holds. I want that God, and I want Him forever.
Hops, I forgive you freely and completely. I haven't seen any of the other posts here - God forgive me, I don't think I'm strong enough yet in this new insight that I could hold on to this emotional and spiritual state, if any responses turned out to be strident and condemning, and I don't want to go back to the state I was in. It was an insult to God, to misuse His gift that way.
I hope everyone here will forgive me - I am grateful beyond words for having had the chance to work this out here, and talk about it openly, and admit my own fault, and glimpse, thank God, a way of being that I never expected to touch in this life.
I pray that I will have the spiritual strength to hold on to it. And I'm sorry I haven't looked at what anyone else has had to say about any of this - if anything. I will, though, in a day or so, after I've given myself a chance to get used to this new way of seeing things.
Whoever out there was praying for me - thank you. It worked. God be thanked and praised. May you be blessed, whole and free, and walk in light all the days of your life, whoever you are.
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I'm glad, Stormy.
Deep peace to you.
love
Hops
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Stormchild - I was just getting ready to post when your last post came on. I want to tell you how very glad I am that you had such a remarkable Monday. I hope today was as good.
I am always struck when anyone can find a path to forgiveness and a path to grace. What a remarkable experience! Thank you for sharing this with the board. I am so glad for you.
Gaining Strength
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Storm,
What an amazing place to be. This is such a God story, inspiring and wonderful. Glorious! Your renewed spirit has touched mine which has been in pretty bad repair these last few weeks. 'Scuse me, I'm about to shout!
tt
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Hi Storm
Your posts impress me and it's great to know you have discovered something.
Love
Izzy
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(((Storm)))
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Hi CB
Thank you! Your post is grounded in good sense and says things I needed to hear. I appreciate it.
I've posted more about this on the Cog. Diss. thread.
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I have been struggling for decades with the question of unilateral forgiveness, unable to grasp how it could be genuinely possible to let an issue go, truly put it out of sight and out of mind, without somehow being evasive, being in denial, colluding with the other party to 'paper it over' and endorse my being misused.
I have wanted an answer to that problem with all my heart. At least, I thought I did. Because Sunday night, I was given the answer, and I nearly wasted it.
The meaning of my release from pain has nothing to do with keeping score, here or anywhere else.
It is totally different from that.
The meaning of my release from pain was simply that God [as I understand Him] has that much power. That God [as I understand Him] can make me whole, regardless of my circumstances.
THAT is the true meaning of the Law of Attraction! Ask and you will recieve - but only when you are able to receive it.
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What's really, awesomely great, Ami, is what GOD did.... :-) :-) :-)
And I am still pain free.