Baldwin calls daughter a "thoughtless little pig"

[cats paw]

GS and Hops-

   Been waiting to see how this would go-  I love happy endings!

cats paw

[Stormchild]

Hops,

May I be next in line? I feel as though we have a serious unresolved issue, back from when I tried to discuss something with you and you weren't ready to hear or think about what I had to say. You will remember: instead of looking at what I actually said to you in private, you imagined, out of fear of judgement, what you were afraid I would say, and then you accused me of saying that to you, out in public.

What you thought I said, and accused me of saying, bore no resemblance at all to what I actually said to you. You didn't know what I actually said; you had no idea. So, I ended up having to post the PMs in question, in order to prove that I was not the monster you were portraying me as.

And then your initial response was to refuse to read them.

Eventually you came around, and did read them, and admitted that they weren't what you thought they were.

But I can't recall you ever telling me that you were sorry. For refusing to read them when they were private, and for essentially bearing false witness against me about them out here in public. For making up a story about me and coming here to tell it to everyone.

It's that deliberate misrepresentation that rankles. It jumps out in front of me whenever I see you speaking kindly to anyone here, and makes me think that kindness is only an act. How could I possibly think otherwise, with this huge unkindness remaining unaddressed?

I think we have both come a long long way in an amazingly short time, but I also know that I still have PMs from you blocked, and as I recall, you also still have me blocked. Which is fine; I only need to be burned once to learn what not to touch. I hardly PM anyone, and I prefer it that way.

But you know - you've never really fessed up to what I think you tried to do to me here, and I wish you would. These days you're keeping short books, and it's truly admirable, but there's one account that is still desperately in need of balancing.

I would like to have the same opportunity to forgive you that I see you now extending to everybody you wrong here  - and that's not many people - except - for some strange reason - me.

And yes, I do wish there had been enough trust restored between us, that I could have said this to you privately.

Edit in: and yes. Even more, I do want to forgive you.

[Hopalong]

I remember, Storm.
I know you didn't see it that way, but I did and do maintain that anyone has the right not to read something that disturbs them or causes too much pain. Even when it frustrates the other. I'm sorry it hurt you that I didn't want your PMs about my relationship with my daughter. I really was in pure self-protection mode. (That doesn't make you a monster, it was just a boundary I had to set.) But I am sorry for the whole episode. It was painful.

I hope there can be forgiveness even when there is disagreement.

I think sometimes a person can ask another for an apology, in such a way that it sounds like:
"I ask you to apologize to me for my opinion of you." That's a tough one. "Bearing false witness, making up a story, and deliberate misprepresentaion" are not how I see myself.  I was doing my honorable best to explain why I was protecting my heart, and how, and may have done a terrible job of it. But there it was.

What I can say, wholeheartedly, is that I hold no grudges, Storm. I've enjoyed reading your posts and have been glad we've had bits of gentle dialogue.

I hope even though I don't capitulate to your interpretation of events, I hope it's possible for you to forgive me anyway if you'd like to.

How are your feet?

Hops

[Stormchild]

They hurt, Hops, but at least it's honest pain.

If this is the best you can do, that's just the way it has to be, I guess.

It does help, just not the way I had hoped it would. It's always good to know where one stands.

It's also helped me make peace with a personal decision I made earlier this week, involving setting a boundary; for that I thank you.

Storm

[Hopalong]

Thanks for accepting me where I am for now, Stormy.
I do appreciate it. It's not easy to do that.

I'm glad we're posting, and I'm glad for a fresh start.

Hops

[axa]

I want to say that suffering had become part of my identity.  I felt as if there was some honour in suffering, as if it was a noble option.    I feel differently now.  It has taken me a long time, and with a lot of help from people on this board, to realise that at some unconscious level I choose to be a victim.  Of course I had been groomed for this role in my childhood but continued to hang onto it in adult life.  I was not aware.

For me there is a significant link between my victimhood and my relationship with Ns.  I am glad to say that I am purposely moving from this position and it feels like quite a release.  Awareness, examining my life, therapy, posting on this board, taking responsibility for myself, struggling with growing up have been the elements which have helped me move along the road.  Not there yet but clearer and hopeful.

THank you all,

axa

[BonesMS]

This morning, I saw an excerpt from "The View" where Baldwin apologized to "everyone he offended".  HE HAS YET TO APOLOGIZE TO HIS DAUGHTER!!!!!  As far as I am concerned, Alec Baldwin IS THE THOUGHTLESS LITTLE PIG!

Bones

[Gaining Strength]

I think that the cultural norms in Indian allow for NO on screen PDA and while here - we can't get away from it - there it is still shocking a la 1950s culture here. - GS

[Stormchild]

I want to say that suffering had become part of my identity.  I felt as if there was some honour in suffering, as if it was a noble option.    I feel differently now.  It has taken me a long time, and with a lot of help from people on this board, to realise that at some unconscious level I choose to be a victim.  Of course I had been groomed for this role in my childhood but continued to hang onto it in adult life.  I was not aware.

Axa, thank you so much. You are so right; we are taught that suffering is not merely our inevitable lot in life, but that our job is to find ways to raise it to the stature of an art form.

One thing I finally figured out: If you want to see what a culture REALLY thinks is worth doing and having, look at the things the most powerful members of the group reserve as their OWN privileges. Not the things they try to brainwash you into valuing; the things THEY demand as a god-given right.

And look at the things that are actually rewarded. For instance - if our culture really valued children, and really valued education, then day-care providers and teachers would be knocking down six figure salaries, and professional athletes would be bringing home $20K a year, and holding day jobs.

In that context, you don't see very many folks who have the wherewithal to choose... choosing the kind and degree of suffering that they advocate for others. Talk about a "racket"!

[axa]

CB

Thank you for writing your post.  I feel as if I am moving in a similiar direction as you.  I am so BORED with being a victim.  I am clear that I do not want to go there ever again.  Before I dumped XN a lot of my paintings were filled with symbols that I now interpret as victim like........... a cross for example.  I think in making these paintings I projected what was going on inside.  I have one of the paintings in my kitchen, look at it daily and say never again.

Storm,

I so agree with what you say about what society values and it sure aint the kids.


axa

[Hopalong]

CB, Axa...

Me too.
I can have pain, I can have disappointments, I can have complaints...
and they come and they go.

But if "victim" is no longer part of what I see in the mirror, life is a better adventure.

Hops

[axa]

Hops,

I think this is sooooooooooooooooo significant.  It has put a different spin on the world for me.  Last night I was asked to a party, which probably would have been fun but felt if I went I would probably have had a few too many glasses of wine, that kind of party and decided I would prefer not to go.  There was a time when I would have felt, poor me, I am not going because I won't know enough people there, I may not have fun blah blah blah.......... very victim stuff.  Instead I decided that I wanted to get up early this morning and work in my garden and I guess I was not interested enough to spend an evening at this party.  Now that is a big jump for me.  I am taking responsibility for my feelings. 

The shift, I believe, is me moving into adult mode.  I am often unsure.  Once I had a thought that I have spent so much of my life banging my head off the wall and not being able to figure out that it hurts.  Think I am beginning to see the walls and stay away from them.  A bit rambling but hope you get my meaning.

axa

[BonesMS]

It appears that Alec Baldwin is not the only N among the rich and famous.  On other message board, I read about a possible N-attempt by one N-Heather Mills, who is planning to produce a cartoon titled "The McFartneys" where she portrays herself as the "poor, put-upon housewife".  PUH-LEEZE!!!!  Is that Narcissistic or what?!?!?

Bones

[Hopalong]

Axa I sure DO get your meaning.
It's a quiet inner genuine shift that's seismic.
I feel joy for you about this.

 

love
Hops

[Stormchild]

Thanks for accepting me where I am for now, Stormy.
I do appreciate it. It's not easy to do that.

I'm glad we're posting, and I'm glad for a fresh start.

Hops

Well, Hoppy, bless your little pea-pickin' heart, you can't help it! I was pushing you to do something that's just beyond what you feel you can manage right now.

That's just the way it is. I do understand, and I think it took a lot of courage for you to admit this. I'm here and ready to meet you halfway, when you feel ready to deal with this.

[Edit in: revised to use more egalitarian language.]