Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Jacqueline on July 27, 2007, 02:32:39 AM
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My entire life I have spent trying to please my N-mother. I didn't know she was an N until 2 months ago. The rest of the time, i thought everything was MY fault.
Ever since i was a child, i had this fantasy that I would name my daughter Mary after my mother (Maria)...to "honor her". I chose the name b/c it is a name i knew my mother would "approve of". But for years i only had sons. Son after son. Finally, i was pg with my long awaited daughter. I spent my entire pg in a depression b/c my mother was not speaking to me/giving me silent treatment. Every effort to contact her was met with stone cold silence.
I foolishly told myself that once my baby was born, my mother would melt and everything would be forgiven/would not matter anymore. But she did not budge. I almost died giving birth to my daughter and this is the only time my mother decided that I was worth talking to, so she finally extended her great "mercy" and stepped off her royal throne to come visit me. While lying in the hospital wondering if i would see my baby grow up I suddenly didn't want to name her Mary anymore. I wanted to name her Jackie after me (just in case anything happened to me).
SO i did. After i found out i was going to live (hopefully a very long time), i was overcome with GUILT for not naming my daughter Mary. I told my mother that Mary was my second choice and that perhaps i should have given my daughter this name instead.
In true N fashion, my mother exclaimed, "Oh Jackie is a beautiful name! She should be named after you". Soon afterwards, my mother stopped speaking to me again. She was very cold, curt, refused to hold my daughter. When i asked her what was the matter, she told me "you know what you did!" I told her i did not mean to hurt her by not naming my daughter Mary after her. I named her Jackie b/c i was afraid i was going to die and I suddenly wanted my daughter to have a piece of me.
My mother refused to listen. Told me it was all lies, lies, filthy lies. That i did it on purpose to STAB HER IN THE HEART...and now every time she looks at my child it is a painful reminder of how much i have hurt her. She has refused to speak to me since.
I feel so horrible inside. I have had nightmares where my daughter is named Mary and not Jackie. I waffle back and forth on whether to change her name to Mary or not. I like both names and I would name another daughter Mary if i was ever so fortunate to be blessed with another. However, THIS baby in my mother's mind was Mary....not another child....for my sweet daughter unwittingly chose my mother's birthday to be born...thus she MUST be Mary.
I know even if i did change the name to Mary Jacqueline it would be TOO LITTLE, TOO LATE to my mother. She is all about the "show" and I had the priest baptise my daughter Jackie quick before i went into surgery. So my mother says its too late. God knows her as Jackie and it will never be the same.
I want to change her name for my own sanity....I wonder if i will regret not naming my daughter Mary for the rest of my life....having to hear my mother tell me my entire life how she was "supposed" to be Mary, how I will regret it if she dies tomorrow etc. etc. At least if i change her name to Mary, i won't have to listen to the crap.
I just want to stop feeling so guilty. I don't want my mother to treat my daughter badly for the rest of her life just b/c i was to stubborn to change the name.
Does anyone have any advice?
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Oh Jacqui I feel so so sad for you.
I have an N mum too and I have lived in that turmoil of never doing the right thing.. never being good enough and beating myself with the guilt stick over and over until I almost drove myself insane. And really I nearly was insane.. vulnerable and desperate to please so I could just please that fantasy mother...
You see in my experience it is a fantasy and I'll let you into a secret.. Say you were to call your beautiful Jacqui Mary... SHE WOULD BE THE SAME!!!! SHE WOULD HAVE SOMETHING ELSE TO BEAT YOU WITH... These N's want to own and control all of you. Your heart your soul and any other tiny tiny piece of you.. Nothing you do will be good enough.. I'll give you some examples.. I called my daughter Katie.. My N mum wanted her to be called Hayley. So for a while she simply called her Hayley. I didn't give in though I was ridden with anguish and guilt... not that my poor child would be confused, but that I was not pleasing my mother.. but even though I didn't change Katies name that was not the end of it.. There was another thing and another thing...
I could not paint my walls without tormenting myself about whether or not my mother would like the colour. I did not know how to dress because it was not to her satisfaction.. Nothing was to her satisfaction. I never to this day wear my hair up because she doesn't like it... I do not know how to put make up on because she would ridicule me for it... I would change for her over and over again until I was just whirling around and around in a confused and chaotic mess... She would withold from me and my lovely daughter unitl I gave in and then within a few weeks there would be something else.. I blamed myself for it all of course and she liked it that way...
It is possible to change Jacqui, though it is a hard and painful road as the manipulation goes up and up a notch.. I have had lots of therapy, hung around here and have been through a couple of life changing traumas in the past 7 years which has led me to where I am today. I build a wall now and behind that wall I try to keep myself and my family grounded and loved and safe. I still dream of the day that my mother is what a mother should be but a huge part om me knows that it isn't possible for her and I have learned to accept that. My daughter has just had a baby of her own and my mother is currently not speaking to us which is very very sad but I have finally got to that stage of some sort of acceptance.
I know that horrible gnawing churning feeling inside.. That total inability to make a decision and my heart goes out to you. But my advice to yu would be that you named yur baby Jacqui after you and that is very very appropriate. If you change it to Mary now it feels like you are sacrificing yourself and maybe this is the time in your life to stop doing that. My guess is that you found this site for a reason... The people around here understand. They will give you support and walk with you.
You say in your post that you want to change Jacqui's name for your own sanity.. I suggest that you DON'T change it for your own sanity. You don't have to listen to the crap. You always have the option of walking away, however hard it seems. This is your baby and you don't have to let your mother treat you or her like crap. Give your baby all the love you have, protect her and she will only benefit from your strength love and determination..
Keep posting
Lots of love
Spyralle x
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Jacqueline,
I'm sorry this is causing you so much pain.
Your daughter's name is fine as it is. It's entirely appropriate to name her after you. As Spyralle says, if you *did* change it for your mother's sake, she'd only find something else to criticise, and would never let you forget what you did *first* , *before* you changed it.
Because, to an NMMother, you can do no right in their eyes.
Not 'you can do no right.'
Just 'in their eyes'.
They are the ones with the problem, not you.
Can I ask you a question? What does your daughter's father think about what she should be named?
Keep posting, there are lots of wise people here.
Janet
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Dear Jaqueline,
People have given so much wisdom to this question. I think what it took for them to get to that point of wisdom. They have faced the type of thing that you are facing. You are seeing what your N mother is really like. It is a shock. It is horrible. It is like finding out some deep, dark horrible "secret". Real life just got mixed with a horror show.
I agree that the name of your daughter is just one of thousands of "power plays" that you will have with your M.
After so, so much suffering with my N mother, I think that one lesson that I learned is that you have to be strong. If you are going to deal with her at all, she will only respect strength. She will not "learn" new lessons.However,she can be squelched.That is the best that I can hope for.
It is like training a dog. You simply have to be the stronger, more dominant one.
If they sense weakness- you are "lost"(IME)
I just really faced this.
Many people here have gone No Contact with their N parents. I have been NC for 6 months. I was able to grow and see things that I would have never seen if I was interacting with er.
IT is just a thought--- for the future.
As far as the name, you might as well start to own yourself ,now. Now ,is a good time b/c it is a new beginning. Please keep sharing. You are in the right place with people who understand . You are not alone , anymore Love Ami
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Please, visit this website.
It might give you some understanding.
http://www.nevergoodenough.com/
It is living on the edge all the time. It is never good enough. No matter what you do, you are never good enough for the N mother. N mothers do not love us.
Please, do not try to please your N mother. That will set you up for constant disappointment.
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If you had a narcissist for a parent, you lived in a world governed by whim enforced without mercy.
Narcissists have normal, even superior, intellectual development while remaining emotionally and morally immature. Dealing with them can give you the sense of trying to have a reasonable discussion with a very clever six-year-old -- this is an age when normal children are grandiose and exhibitionistic, when they are very resistant to taking the blame for their own misbehavior, when they understand what the rules are (e.g., that lying, cheating, and stealing are prohibited) but are still trying to wriggle out of accepting those rules for themselves. This is the year, by the way, when children were traditionally thought to reach the age of reason and when first communions (and first confessions) were made.
Having a narcissist for a mother is a lot like living under the supervision of a six-year-old. Narcissists are always pretending, and with a narcissistic mother it's a lot like, "Let's play house. I'll pretend to be the mother and you pretend to be the baby," though, as the baby, you'll be expected to act like a doll (keep smiling, no matter what) and you'll be treated like a doll -- as an inanimate object, as a toy to be manipulated, dressed and undressed, walked around and have words put in your mouth; something that can be broken but not hurt, something that will be dropped and forgotten when when something more interesting comes along. With narcissists, there's also usually a fair element of "playing doctor," as well -- of childish sexual curiosity that may find expression in "seductive" behavior towards the child, such as inappropriate touching of the genitals, or it can also come out as "hypochondriacal" worries about the child's health and/or being most interested and attentive when the child is ill (thus teaching the child that the way to get Mother's kind attention is to get sick). Having a sick child can also be a way for the narcissistic mother to get the sympathetic attention of authority figures, such as doctors and teachers.
http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/six.html
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. She destroys your relationships. Narcissistic mothers are like tornadoes: wherever they touch down families are torn apart and wounds are inflicted. Unless the father has control over the narcissist and holds the family together, adult siblings in families with narcissistic mothers characteristically have painful relationships. Typically all communication between siblings is superficial and driven by duty, or they may never talk to each other at all. In part, these women foster dissension between their children because they enjoy the control it gives them. If those children don’t communicate except through the mother, she can decide what everyone hears. Narcissists also love the excitement and drama they create by interfering in their children’s lives. Watching people’s lives explode is better than soap operas, especially when you don’t have any empathy for their misery.
The narcissist nurtures anger, contempt and envy - the most corrosive emotions - to drive her children apart. While her children are still living at home, any child who stands up to the narcissist guarantees punishment for the rest. In her zest for revenge, the narcissist purposefully turns the siblings’ anger on the dissenter by including everyone in her retaliation. (“I can see that nobody here loves me! Well I’ll just take these Christmas presents back to the store. None of you would want anything I got you anyway!”) The other children, long trained by the narcissist to give in, are furious with the troublemaking child, instead of with the narcissist who actually deserves their anger.
The narcissist also uses favoritism and gossip to poison her childrens’ relationships. The scapegoat sees the mother as a creature of caprice and cruelty. As is typical of the privileged, the other children don’t see her unfairness and they excuse her abuses. Indeed, they are often recruited by the narcissist to adopt her contemptuous and entitled attitude towards the scapegoat and with her tacit or explicit permission, will inflict further abuse. The scapegoat predictably responds with fury and equal contempt. After her children move on with adult lives, the narcissist makes sure to keep each apprised of the doings of the others, passing on the most discreditable and juicy gossip (as always, disguised as “concern”) about the other children, again, in a way that engenders contempt rather than compassion.
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Hi J,
Honey, don't you let that 'you know what' make you unhappy!
You just had a DAUGHTER. A beautiful, precious child.
It IS typical N behavior. All about HER.
Sweetie, let me tell you, she will destroy you. That's what N's are all about.
My mother is an N as well.
She once told me not to hug my girls so much because it would make them "weak".
BULLSH**!!
You love that baby with all your heart. When you look at her, see what You & your husband have created, not what NMother is up to!
You don't want to look back & see what you could've done differently.
Believe me, J, I look back EVERYDAY, & wish I would've been stronger.
We are here to help, & we understand!
Love,
Bigalspal
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Dear Jacqueline,
Many congratulations on the birth of your daughter!
You've been given so much wise advice here... I only hope that you'll continue to post and allow it to become a fact of your life that
N is impossible to please. N doesn't care about the consequences or the end-result of our attempts to please and pacify... N only thrives on the process of watching us twist ourselves into knots in the process of trying.
Hugs to you and Jackie.
With love,
Hope
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Oh my Gosh! I want to scream! This reminds me of something so stupid that my mom would do as well! I just want to yell LET THE LADY GO! But those are my emotions screaming out and I do not know your situation. My own issues came flooding out. Love to you!
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Jac,
I am always amazed when I read a new story! Even though I have lived with it myself, I am still amazed. This sounds like so many difficult situations I have found myself in. Trying to listen to myself (my thoughts, wishes, plans) and feeling them so overshadowed and almost eclipsed by the desires and moral pressures of the N family in my life. All I can say is, stand firm in what you want to do. Your voice! Your desires for your new little one! How can your decision be wrong? Just because your NM rants or puts on the show of victimization? SMOKE AND MIRRORS! I sometimes tell myself to make the decision I would make if all the influence of my N's were not there. Kinda frees me up to hear myself. I also ask myself, what would I do or be without that N voice in my head. And I now try to follow whatever bubbles up. Try to stop myself whenever I see myself scrambling to make N people satisified.
My mother tried to name my daughter once. Told everyone what her choice was before we had even announced. We didn't even act like we noticed. Just named our daughter what we wanted. So glad I didn't give in. Feel like I freed myself and my little girl from regret and obligation.
So happy for your new baby! There is something so magical about new baby girls!
--mof4
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Jac, who picked your name? Did you grand mother pick your name or your mother pick your name?
Is there a tradition in your family that the grand mother pick names?
Maybe your grand mother picked your name and now your mom wants to do the same?
I picked the name of my son. My father picked mine. My mom picked the name of my sister.
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Thank you all for your support.
Thank you especially to the person who wrote: I know that horrible gnawing churning feeling inside.. That total inability to make a decision and my heart goes out to you.
This is EXACTLY how i feel. Completely helpless. I waffle back and forth back and forth every single damn day. My baby is several weeks old now and I cry about naming my own daughter after MYSELF. I blame myself. How could I have been so STUPID? Why did i have to be in such a rush? I could have avoided this whole mess if i had just named her Mary....why was I so stupid to even tell my mother the names i was thinking of?
There is more to this story. Prior to naming my daughter, i showed my mother a list of names and asked her which name i should choose. She told me, "i cannot tell you that." Then i told her, i was deciding between the names Mary and Jackie. She said, "Of course i would be honored if you picked Mary" [pause]....there....right there....that's the moment i should have stopped and declared "Alright then, her name is Mary".....but no, mother continued...." but there are so many beautiful names on this list....leave it with me and i will pray on it".
A couple hrs later my mother called and declared my daughters name should be Angelika b/c she is an angel. So when i told my husband this, he told me to name our daughter Jackie since my mother did not seem to care about Mary or not... (ah ha! you stupid fool. this was all just my mother being 'humble' and she chose this ridiculous name so we could see how proper of a name Mary was....)
So i went ahead and baptized her Jackie. As soon as i did it, a dark cloud washed over my mother's face and I was IMMEDIATELY struck by the grave mistake I had just done! I cried out to my husband, "Oh no! I should have named her Mary! Jackie is a mistake"....my husband told me, "Just give it some time. Mary is the mistake"
Then my mother started in with the cold shoulder/silent treatment. I started having nightmares about calling my daughter Mary. I cried every day. My husband finally said i should name her Mary IF that's what i think her name is but not just to please my mother. I don't know if that's what her name is. If my dd is not Mary then why can't i get that name out of my mind? What makes it even harder is how everyone (strangers) tell me how wonderful/classic the name Mary is and how Jackie is common/boring.
I feel so horrible and guilty! Why could I not have just called her Mary like I was going to? Would it have been so awful for my mother to parade around and show off her granddaughter? Who cares what the name is? But nooooooooooooooooo! I had to insist on Jackie just in case i died. My mother has exploited my guilt over this and says i have to "live with what you did" for the rest of my life....and that I am no longer her daughter and she is ashamed to call me that. She said i brought this whole thing on myself b/c i did not honor my mother like the bible says.
I have daydreams where i imagine what it would be like if i had given in and called my daughter Mary instead....well my mother would be happy. She would tell me how PROUD she was and how happy i made her. She would tell everyone what a wonderful daughter i was. I would be welcome in my mother's house.....and even though she doesn't make any effort to remember any of her grandchildren on their birthdays, christmas, etc....she would have remembered little Mary. Mary would have been her FAVORITE grandchild....and it would have made her happy which is all i ever wanted to do. Make my mother happy.
I weep b/c i chose the other road. I was selfish and chose myself instead. I feel so terrible. I can't even bond with my daughter...its like i need my own mother's PERMISSION to love my own child. IF she says the name is good then it is good. Otherwise it is wrong/bad. I can't move on. Its like i'm in a fog and this consumes me everyday.
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For the person who asked:
My mother named me after someone she saw in a movie. That's it. She did not name me or my sister after herself (Maria) OR my grandmother (Elizabeth) for that matter. She had 2 chances, 4 names and not ONE of them was after anyone in my family....but now here is my mother preaching to me about the importance of family and passing on tradition and honoring relatives. F*cking hypocrite!
So my whole life i had this fantasy of naming my daughter Mary Elizabeth (after her and my GM)....and maybe later, if i had a 2nd daughter i would call that one Sarah Jacqueline.
Well, being told by the surgeon that I might not make it...wondering if i would ever see my little girl get married etc....i suddenly didn't care about the name Mary. I wanted her to have Jaqueline....somewhere.
My husband wanted the name Evangeline (which means "brings good news") b/c our daughter brings us good luck. So her full given name was/is
Jacqueline Evangeline Elizabeth X. Not Mary Elizabeth. Not Mary Jaqueline.
My mother is upset that she is not Jacqueline Mary Elizabeth. She is upset that I put Elizabeth 3rd and not First. She went around asking people if they agreed Elizabeth is a nicer name than Jackie! She says i insulted my grandmother by throwing in Elizabeth as the third name. SHe tells me i humiliated her by not giving her Mary even as a second place name.
I was not fond of my husband choice but i wanted him to have a say also. He did not want ELizabeth in there at all b/c he thinks the name is too long and doesn't flow well with our last name.
Mary Elizabeth flowed well. Everyone tells me what a BEAUTIFUL name that is. When i told my MIL i was thinking of changing the name back to Mary Elizabeth, my MIL says, "Oh good. I was not very fond of the name Jackie Evangeline Elizabeth...that's an awkward mouthful"....so now i feel even more confused and stupid.
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PS. to the person who told me i need professional help.... thank you. I have been going to counselling for several months. My first counsellor (when i was PG) was telling me i should name my dd Mary Elizabeth b/c it would make my mother happy and my daughter could be "the bridge towards peace/reconcilliation". This was the church counsellor. My mother and i had been estranged for several months and i went then b/c my mother refused to have anything to do with me while i was PG. She refused to come to my baby shower.
When i was told this, i felt like i was sacrificing my daughter on the altar of my mother's approval. I didn't want to do it. I was SO ANGRY that my mother would shun me this way. I thought, "what if i name my daughter Mary and then my little girl asks me why i named her after her grandma that doesn't come to her birthday parties? What will i tell my little girl?"
After she was born, I thought "i never want my girl to feel like she was not good enough for me and my name...so i will give her a piece of me forever"....at the time it sounded like a good thing to me.
Now i have big regrets. My mother has disowned me for this. I am seeing another counsellor (non religous) who told me that any grandmother who shunns her own child/grandchild over a name is NOT WORTH IT and i should cut off ties. That my mother is a N - this is how i found out. I wonder if he is right b/c i have not heard of this before. Maybe its just mother-blaming? So many days i wish i had listened to the church lady and named her Mary like she suggested. Then this whole mess would not have happened.
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((((((((((((((((((((((((Jackie))))))))))))))))))))))
Oh sweeetheart the tumoil you are in is almost tangible. Firstly though I have to say that Jacqueline Evangeline Elizabeth is a beautiful beautiful name. It is the name of that little baby. That's who she is and you know what that is more important than anything else.
I don't believe you are sacrificing your daughter on the 'alter of your mothers approval'. I believe that you are sacrificing yourself, and probably you have done that many many times before. I'll be very surprised hon if your mother has disowned yoou and I know this sounds awful but it would almost be a blessing if she did. If I had a pound for every time my mum has said to me 'I am finished with you' I'd be loaded. I mean.. think about it.. What kind of a person would disown their daughter because she called her own baby by the name she chose.. Sit down for a minute Jackie and just think about it. Are they the actions of the kind nurturing mother, or of a woman who craves control and enmeshment and will manipulate and emotionally abuse to get it.
That feelinf inside is a killer isn't it, and the way it goes around and around in your head until it is unbearable. Take some time jackie. Breath slowly and deeply and look into your daughters eyes. Maybe you will see that is what counts.that bond between you and her. The bond I have with my daughter (who by the way is 22 and still called Katie despite my mothers best efforts) helps calm that horrible feeling.. Trust in your relationship with her because that is what counts...
Lots and lots of love
Spyralle xxxx
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Poor Jackie your mom really has you hog-tied. I have a confession to make to you. As I read this topic, I have have come to deeply dislike your mother. I can't stand her! Who does she think she is to upset a pregnant woman like that?? How mean and selfish can she be!! The nerve of her! The unmitigated gall! She should be on her knees begging you for the chance to change a diaper or two of her beloved granddaughter and asking if you would like a cup of tea and a nap! And where is she?? She's having a tantrum.
I think what your mom was doing before the birth, shunning you and giving you the cold shoulder and refusing to come to the shower - I think that was wrong. And what she is doing to you now, I think that is wrong too. I think it's a terrible thing that you are in such pain and agony and she put you there. When you imagine a mother who is overjoyed and happy to be your mother and your daughter's grandmother - you are imagining a woman who does not exist. I am sorry. You deserve to have that, but you don't and it is not your fault.
So that's my perspective. We just had our first baby earlier this year and my husband and I were agreed that the very last names we would name our baby boy would be our respective narcissistic fathers' names. The very. last. of all boy names that exist.
I encourage you to read more about N-ism.
It will help you understand that you have done nothing wrong.
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Thankyou thank you thanky ou all so much! I tell my friends about this stuff and they tell me I need to try harder with my mom, that she loves me in her "own way".
I'm to the point where i don't give a damn what she thinks anymore. When i look at my sweet daughter, I just want her to have the best life possible. But i weep when i think that it won't include my mother. I feel responsible for the rift i have created between them.
I have tried to speak to my mother about this (calmly). I said, "mother, i just want you to know that i did not name her jackie to hurt you. If i wanted to hurt you i wouldn't have even considered the name Mary"
My mother put her fingers in her ears and told me she didn't want to hear any more of my lies, filthy lies. She said now every time she looks at my daughter she is disgusted. I humiliated her in front of everyone calling her Jackie. "I TOLD YOU I WOULD BE HONORED WITH MARY. I TOLD YOU AND YOU CHOSE TO STAB ME IN THE HEART. YOU ARE A SELFISH B*TCH!" This is what my mother was screaming at me.
I was crying and telling my mom i loved her and want her to be in our lives and my mother stops, stares me down with a cold hard stare and said: "You made your bed. Now you have to lay in it. You have to suffer the consequences of your choices. It is obvious that I do not hold the right place in your heart. When i hold the right place in your heart, then you will KNOW what the right thing to do is....until then. Don't even look at me"
Then she left and when i went to see her a couple wks later my mother did not even acknowlege i existed. She ran right past me and into her house and refused to open the door to see me. I cried all the way home. I don't know how i can even begin to fix this. I feel so terrible for hurting her so badly.
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Oh sweetheart,
I feel responsible for the rift i have created between them.
You are not responsible at all - your mother is.
My mother put her fingers in her ears and told me she didn't want to hear any more of my lies, filthy lies. She said now every time she looks at my daughter she is disgusted. I humiliated her in front of everyone calling her Jackie. "I TOLD YOU I WOULD BE HONORED WITH MARY. I TOLD YOU AND YOU CHOSE TO STAB ME IN THE HEART. YOU ARE A SELFISH B*TCH!" This is what my mother was screaming at me.
I was crying and telling my mom i loved her and want her to be in our lives and my mother stops, stares me down with a cold hard stare and said: "You made your bed. Now you have to lay in it. You have to suffer the consequences of your choices. It is obvious that I do not hold the right place in your heart. When i hold the right place in your heart, then you will KNOW what the right thing to do is....until then. Don't even look at me"
Then she left and when i went to see her a couple wks later my mother did not even acknowlege i existed. She ran right past me and into her house and refused to open the door to see me. I cried all the way home. I don't know how i can even begin to fix this. I feel so terrible for hurting her so badly.
No caring, nurturing mother would ever say things like that or behave that way towards her child. Can you imagine saying something like this to your precious daughter?
Have you considered that she is the one who owes you an apology? She is acting like a child and having a temper tantrum over a name at one of the most stressful and beautiful times in your life - stressful because of the residual pain of childbirth and surgery, the utter sleep deprivation, and the shifting hormones, and beautiful for having just brought a new and precious life into the world.
Honey, this is your daughter, not your mother's, you have every right to name her whatever you want.
I am so sad that you have to experience antics like this at what should be a most wonderful time for you. You deserve a lot better.
(((((Hugs to you and Jackie))))))
Peace
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Please, read the post that I gave you. That might help you understand the NPD. That way you will start not to feel the urge to please her. There is no reason to please her. This kind of persons never get satisfied. I gave you three about NPD in mothers.
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One more thing hon,
N's love attention and c'mon Jackie, why should you get all that attention having a beautiful baby girl.. What's that about.. !!!!! I guess the best thing to do then is to focus attention right back onto her.. regardless of the pain and heartache.. regardless of the detruction of that special time that is just for you and your husband and daughter.
My daughter has just had a baby and I want it all to be about them... I watch her with her baby and I am so proud of her. I never want to be like my mother because it is unhealthy to make your child go through the sort of desperation you are feeling. That isn't love Jackie. As I have craved a mother who loves me I have turned myself in somersalts for one who sees me as a possession. Try and stop spinning hon stay calm and show your baby how strong you are and how true to her..
Spyralle x
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Honey, this is your daughter, not your mother's, you have every right to name her whatever you want.
Well, here is where I get confused. I KNOW i have a right to name her whatever i want....but i have been trained/ programmed, conditioned to automatically think "what would mother want? what would make HER most happy? I should WANT what she wants. A GOOD daughter would do that.
For years I WANTED to name her Mary....never even gave it a second thought. When my husband asked me why i picked that name it was automatic "well, b/c it would make my mom so happy/proud"
Now i'm sitting here with my head spinning wondering if i'm going to regret this for the rest of my life. When mother's lying on her death bed am i going to be kicking myself for not giving her this namesake? Or will i be kicking myself for naming her Mary when my daughter is in tears after my mom says something cruel to her? If i knew the answer to THAT question then i would have it made. I already know when i was facing death i wasn't thinking about no stinking Mary name. I keep thinking, "this will pass....one day my mom and I are going to be speaking again...." i've told myself this everyday for 2 years now....and its not getting better. Its getting worse!
When i was in the hospital (before my surgery thinking i was going to die)...my anger, who was right/wrong didn't matter to me anymore. I loved my mom. I forgave her. She was like a cold statue and muttered that she forgave me also a long time ago and i had to forgive myself.....now this name thing....my mother telling me i haven't changed. i'm still the rotten, selfish person. I AM SELFISH. I wanted my daughter to have a piece of ME! My mom says i need mental help and treat my daughter like a toy.....not!
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but i have been trained/ programmed, conditioned to automatically think "what would mother want? what would make HER most happy? I should WANT what she wants. A GOOD daughter would do that.
I was too.
I also understand the worries about regret. I went no contact (NC) with my mother almost a year ago. I don’t take any calls, anything that is sent is unopened, I don’t read any e-mails or letters. It got to the point where her cruelty and demands were too much, it was not only devastating to me, it was impacting my relationship with my husband and children. I was a mess all the time, and they felt the effect of it. It was at that point where I realized she was not only hurting me, she was hurting my family, and that is where I drew the line. I would not allow her poison to spill over to my real family.
My regrets - I worry that when my mother dies, I will regret my decision to go NC. I worry that I will regret not trying harder to make the relationship work. I regret that my children may be very angry at me for not associating with that side of the family when they get older.
It came down to a choice for me. I had to decide whether or not I was willing to continue being mistreated (and frankly, IMO, you are clearly being mistreated) and put up with her abuse, or if I would live with the worry about the regret I may feel. I chose to live with the worry that I may feel the regret.
It is a horrible position your mother has put you in, she is forcing you to decide between you and her. A nurturing, caring mother would never do this. I can’t imagine saying the things that your mother said to you to my daughter for anything, let alone not naming her after me.
In my opinion (IMO), in caring, mature relationship, each person considers their own needs and the needs of the person they care for. It is a synergistic realtionship - they work together to find a solution. If only one person’s needs are taken care of, especially through emotional manipulation, it is not a relationship, it is emotional slavery.
I can remember how hard those first couple of months were after I had babies. Do you think you could give yourself some time to make a decision? You can always change her name in 6 months if that is what you decide to do. Right now, heal, take the time to get to know that precious little life, and give yourself permission to take a break from your mother and this decision.
Lupita had some really good advice also. Read as much as you can on NPD. It was a real eye-opener for me, and helped me to understand that it is not my fault.
I don't know if this helps, but please know I am thinking of you. It is a horrible place to be.
Peace
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Dear J,
You need to find some help--- support group ,the board, a good friend , --- someone outside your little world. For me, the board helped me more than anything else that I ever tried.
Your thinking is "not right". You are focused on the name as the pivotal issue. The name is only a symptom of your mother's larger problems. She sounds like NPD(IMO)
She sounds like she has this disorder which makes her thinking very "off". Your "job" would be to separate yourself from her issues-- to see her problem as hers. The name thing is only one of thousands of issues that you have had before, I would think. There will be thousands of issues in the future.
Whatever you do with the name is a "small" issue in light of the fact that you need to separate yourself( emotionally) from her sickness
Read people's posts here. Tayana's posts remind me of your mother. Keep writing and get whatever objective person you need to try to help you see that the problem is her. She is not "right" and no name or anything else will make her right Love Ami
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Jacqueline,
I have an insurrectionist thought.
If naming your daughter Jacqui (lovely lovely name) haunts you (and thank god you did not name her Mary)...and if she's just a few weeks old, is there any other name you might consider?
Perhaps it would lighten this horrible feeling if you stood up for your baby girl's right to NOT be enmeshed, with either her mother or her grandmother. Perhaps giving her her own, new name would help.
Have you thought of talking to a minister about this? I know that names have great specialness. When you give a child a naming ceremony, you are giving her a blessing.
All the pent-up love you have in your heart for her...what if you turned this page--just turn it over. And consider, some loving ritual where you make her name a gift, not a burden?
Look at her sweet face in peace. Sit with her, see where it leads you.
(And I echo every wise one here, please get help with this. She needs you. And you need freedom in your mind that will give you for you to love her and defend your sacred bond with her against ALL who would invade it. Including your mother.)
I let my Nmother have way too much sway over my daughter's life. And I regret it.
Keep posting, there is so much help here, and support for whatever decision is right for you.
with love,
Hopalong
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J: I Have come so far in my progress with my mom but I was thinking just yesterday that I still feel constant pressure from her that I am not doing a good job or that I should do what SHE wants me to do. These issues take weeks, months and years to work through. My heart goes out to you during this struggle. Is her middle name Mary? Maybe you could establish as the moment in time where you have made a decision and she is just going to have to live with it. I remember being afraid of my mom
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and her reactions. I lived my life trying to make her happy. Problem is I was miserable. So just love your baby and ask the Lord to bless her and while you are as it ask God to bless your mother-as hard as that is I heard if you pray for those who persecute you your heart will soften towards them.
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Dear Jacqueline,
What would you like to be able to share with your little girl one day, when you tell her the story of her birth... and of her name?
Just the way it happened, there in the hospital... exactly the way it was, when you didn't know whether you'd be on this earth to share your life with her... can you imagine how that would make a daughter feel - knowing that her mama longed so very much to be a part of her life?
Wonderful, I'd say... loved and cared for and wanted... all warm feelings.
Would you say so?
Love,
Hope
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Jac:
Your mother won't ever be kind, no matter what you do. You can change your dd's name and you can grovel and sacrafice yourself till the cow's come home.....
your mother won't change.
It's confusing and crazy making to try to make sense of something that doesn't make any sense, I know.
I'm so sorry you have to go through this. Once you accept that your mother is broken and can't be fixed.... you can begin to move forward with healing.
There's no advice to help you live with her.
No advice to make it easier.
No advice to make her less crazy and you feel good about that.
You feel such intense discomfort because you're somewhere you don't belong. That discomfort is telling you something. 'Make a move'
You may THINK the message is that you aren't good enough or that you caused this or that you have the power to change her IF you can be good enough smart enough try hard enough sacrafice enough. Phht. Won't happen. Sorry. Makes it more difficult to put responsibility on your mother's shoulders, where it belongs. All you can do is control you. Take responsibilty for your actions and words. Be a better mother and figure out how to do that. You never saw it modeled for you. How could you know?
Realizing that you deserve better, she sucks and you have the choice to accept that truth and fill your familie's life with better things and people.... or not.... is a choice before you now bc you've crossed the line into facing the truth. No more outright denial for you. Sorry about that bc it hurts. A lot. Can't be helped. It's the way out. THROUGH THE PAIN. Never around it. If you stay, you're now volunteering for more abuse.
Crap, huh?
She'll tear your children apart if you allow that.
It's not what N's do..... it's what they ARE.
Like expecting them to change the color of their skin. It's not possible. It's not going to happen. ::shaking head::
Lighter saying for the day..... "It's hope that kills us"
Very sad but moving past this and creating a safe wonderful fulfilling life, with healthy supports and boundaries, is about realizing you're never going to get your mother to love you and treat you with kindness.
HOW UNFAIR IS THAT?!?!
You deserved it and should have been gifted those things because you were an innocent vulnerable child entrusted to her, as your mother.
Societie's expectations of a mother is fairly well layed out. Society doesn't want to hear that mama's can eat their young, for satisfaction of chewing. ::shrug::
Doesn't change the fact, no matter how hard society hums and covers it's collective ears.
Improbable...... makes it hard to find support and understanding within the community of extended family and community, no doubt.
A good therapist, this board and one close friend can provide the support, IMO.
Relief will come from walking through the pain and facing the truth.
Mourning the loss of your mother, (which means you mourn the loss of the IDEA of the mother you wanted) She never really existed as "good mother."
The final journey is creating healthy boundaries that enable you to make good choices in the future.
You can.
I hope you do.
Replacing her with uplifting people and things in your life.
TEACH YOUR CHILDREN HOW TO DO THAT FOR THEMSELVES!
If you weren't so overwhelmed and in pain, you might see a glimmer of hope and feel some thrill of excitement over exploring your life and finding happiness.... releif from confusion and pain.
I know you don't see that now, ((Jac)) But try to view yourself from a distance. It's so hard to see what's going on when your face is pressed up against the glass, I know.
The good new is....there are many people here who've been where you are.
They carry torches shedding light on the path ahead of you.
I know they're posting support and information.
Cry and mourne the loss you feel, then keep coming back and looking for answers.
Yo've found validation and understanding here. You don't have to qualify your posts or convince us.
We BELIEVE you simply bc it's happened to us to.
We won't doubt you and you can just speak and be understood.
WHAT A GIFT THAT IS!!
Welcome Jac.
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I know you are all right. I wish i was still in denial. Ignorance was bliss.....well not bliss, but definitely LESS PAINFUL!
I have been making excuses for her behaviour for so long....she's tired, she's busy, she's old, she's had a tough life with 2 failed marriages, blah blah blah. So i tried not to be too demanding. When i told her i was pregnant with my first son, she was annoyed that his due date fell during her "busy time" at work..."why didn't you plan it better? you KNOW that's my busy time....i won't have time to help you you know"....and she didn't. She came over for 2 hr the first day and i didn't see her after that. I felt guilty for not counting 9 mo in advance to get PG to see if it would be convenient for HER....
Problem is, my sister had babies when our mother was not busy and she didn't get any help either. Not when she had a c-section and was forced to stay at her MIL, not when she had another child and lost so much blood she was too weak to get out of bed for 10 days. My mother had excuses for my sister also. She's too busy with our brother, my sister is too difficult, my sister is too rebellious and stubborn and doesn't appreciate our mother (maybe if you were the least bit KIND mother, kindness would flow back to you!)
I guess i am just in MOURNING. There have been so many good things, so much love, so much joy my mother has missed out on b/c every time we tried to surprise her with something, she ruins it! Every gift i give her she discards, or returns to my face. But i keep blaming myself for not being honest with her. For hiding my true feelings....she could never handle the truth anyways...i remember always sugar coating everything, leaving out details that would make her upset. Always walking on egg shells around her.....and then gagging when i would hear her spout off how "open minded, fair and understanding" she claimed she was.....puke!
I've spent my whole life making excuses for her b/c she had 2 bad marriages. She never left the second one, even though she knew our stepfather was cruel and mean. She claims she didn't want to be a single parent again....but i think she lived on the sympathy and attention it gave her from her friends and family. "oh poor you"....now my brother is almost out of the house and she claims she can't leave b/c my stepfather is ill. She "answers to God".....oh yeah? What does God think of your filthy mouth and how you treat your daughters and grandchildren?
If that wasn't enough, she BLAMES ME for her bad marriage to my step-father. I wasn't loving, caring, thoughful enough....okey, dokey....then why does my brother hate his father so much then? I left when he was 2. Its all just lies.
I just want to get to the place where I don't feel anger/rage anymore. I had it for awhile in the hospital. Now i blame myself for ruining our reconcillation. Such a fragile truce. (she gave me the silent treatment for 18 months b/c i told her to "shut up" - once.....never once did she apologize for calling me a spiteful, demon possessed, bitch that she wishes she never gave birth to....nope. THAT crap was justified)....
So i make excuses for her. I try to remember the "good times"....but even those were peppered with her cutting me down a notch. Telling me i'm too negative and have negative energy (gee ma? ya think? Maybe if you tried LIFTING ME UP instead of critizing my acne, body, friends, maybe if you allowed me to wear makeup and date and build up my selfconfindence i wouldn't be this shy pessimistic wallflower.....)
Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrhhhhhhh! I feel like SCREAMING! I just want to dump it all out! I want to pour out my soul to her - good and bad. I've asked her to come with me for counselling but no, she told me to take some personal development couses to learn how to treat people. So i did....and guess what i found out? I'm a GOOD PERSON and my mother is crazy! So i grew a backbone and that's when the trouble started. "you took the course all wrong!" she told me.....why? b/c i wasn't grovelling at her feet telling her what a good mother she was?
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Jackie,
I feel that the name of your baby and the anguish over your mother's interference is just the tip of the iceberg, here. Your posts are getting more and more revealing (we all tend to do that, her, when we start - I don't think it's deliberate!).
Your mother has NPD, definitely. She'll never be the mother you deserve, and you'll need to grieve for that, because it's not going to change.
I've had No Contact with my NMum for 13 years. She 'suggested' I went to family therapy to 'learn how to get on with the famiily better' (that's what she thought family therapy meant). It sounds like your mother treats you the same ...you're at fault, all the time. If only you'd change, do what she wants, bend over backwards just a LITTLE bit more...
If only, if only...
It's not going to work. IMO, no contact from now on is the only way to go. Otherwise, she'll poison your life, and that of your daughter, and neither of you need that, or deserve it.
Even if you changed your daughter's name to Mary now (even if you'd named her Mary FROM BIRTH, IMO) she'll still never be happy. She'd think of something else for you to be wrong over.
I'm sorry this is so negative, but you've got time to protect your daughter from having such a dangerous person in her life.
JKanet
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Dear Friend,
Keep talking about where you are. It is all valid and it is all important .We have been there. You are correct in calling it--- mourning. I also, sometimes think that it was easier to be in denial, but it really is not
It just hurts so, very, very much, You don't want to hurt. The problem is that you have stuffed and absorbed years and years of bad treatment from her and you DO hurt. Just let us help you go through it. Just keep feeling the pain and betrayal. It will end at some point and you will feel "clean" inside. It takes time b/c there is so much pain to dispel. Also, you have taken in ,many false ideas about yourself. You will let these go--- in time.t I am so glad that you are here. Love Ami
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Well, thanks everyone for welcoming me here. It feels so liberating to have a VOICE for a change. ITs bittersweet to learn my mother has NPD b/c a part of me still hopes and wishes that perhaps she can still be fixed...with just a little bit more love, compassion, understanding on my part. I STILL LOVE HER - warts and all....and i have told her so....she told me to "shut up and stop being so high and mighty"
So i need to get to a point where i am no longer REACTING to her shite! Everything i do is either a reaction or complete opposite to what she would do. I wish i knew what I WANT....i feel like i'm being deprogrammed.
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Dear Jac,
You WERE programed or "brainwashed", Facing what is true about you( that you are worthwhile and lovable) is the deprogramming.. You will replace the lies with the truth as you start to heal Love Ami
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My God Jackie, is your mother my mother's long lost sister. Every example you give I can come up with one the same.. Stand firm hon. Just one thing though.. If you do pour out your soul to her be prepared.. I tried that with my mum. I had been in therapy a while and learned all about projection and I decided that all the crap she had been dumping on me for years was hers and I was going to give it her back.. She had come to visit for a month and she stayed a grand total of 16 hours.. She turned into Medusa and started really abusing me.. came out with all the demon possesed stuff.. You know the score. What it did do for me though was it laid a boundary that had never been there before. I don't think she picked up on it but it changed the way I was and eventually she has had to pick it up... She said to me last year.. 'the problem with you is that I used to just raise my little finger and you did what I wanted.. now you don't' For her that was a major problem.. For me it was liberation.. Not total liberation as I guess that will take years.. but enough to stand my ground... Just remember you will never get the reaction you crave...
Keep stong because you are absolutely right when you say she is the crazy one. It sounds like hanging around here is really helping you to look at the reality of the situation. Stay with us.. We are watching your back..
Love
Spyralle x
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Jackie,
You wrote:
"I STILL LOVE HER - warts and all....and i have told her so....she told me to "shut up and stop being so high and mighty" "
Who throws affection back like that? Would you take this kind of rubbish from anyone else? From a partner? From another relative, even?
That's the trap, IMO. Society (and the N, of course) trains us (especially women) to ALWAYS put mothers on a pedestal and allow them to get away with behaving atrociously. But it's your personality, and health, and mind, that suffers for it.
And it 's NOT FAIR!! You deserve so much more than being treated like a doormat.
Normal people do not respond to being told that someone loves them, on that way.
Spyralle - I've just seen your post as I was typing this. I think all our mothers were triplets! :D When you put that your mother said recently "'the problem with you is that I used to just raise my little finger and you did what I wanted.. now you don't' For her that was a major problem.. For me it was liberation.. " that reminded me of when I put on weight back to a normal level after 12 years of anorexia, and she reacted by saying 'I used to like you better when you were thin - I could control you better, then.'
Aren't they predictable?? :shock:
Janet
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Oh my God Janet we need a let's compare mothers post I think... i have heaps to say on the whole reason I have total eating issues...
Spyralle x
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J: There obviously is more to this story. Your mom was not talking to you BEFORE this episode. While you were P G? You see, what this says to me is she will always have issues with you despite the circumstances. What was her deal prior to the naming fight? N people have to be the center of attention. You were getting too much attention being pregnant with a girl and then almost dying! Everyone must have been concerned about YOU not her! It makes me mad for you!
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Hey Jac:
You really seem to know where you're going with all this.
Now you have to stay focused and work on nurturing yourself.
Nurturing your new baby and your husband.
Does he support and understand you?
Research all the develpmental phases your baby will be going thorugh so you know whats normal..... so you know not to label your child 'bad'.... if she's doing it, it's most certainly going to be normal.
You will gently guide and teach her to do better by giving/modeling behaviors for her.
How do you want her to speak to you? Loud and blaming? Calm.... with humor? She'll speak to you the way she's spoken to.
If you're racing around the house out of control, your child will be out of control. For whatever reason you aren't controlled....
Please do seek a psychotherapist, be choosey and get one you trust and who is trustworthy.
When you were a child you were a victim. You had no choice. Now, you're a grown woman and all the choices are yours.
Lighter prhase of the day....."no victims, only volunteers" and you are responsible for giving your trust ONLY to those who are wothy. From here on out. Your mother's not worthy. You know that now. She won't be trustworthy with your child either.
Giving up the hope that mother will love you is awful. I see you've started to do that. Finishing it requires, IMO, wailing and mourning and crying loudly like a wounded animal..... get it all out.... just like you feel like doing.
IT WANTS OUT.
Once you've done that,as long and often as it takes..... it stops tapping you on the shoulder like a ghost.
All that NEEDS to come out and it will continue to come out in all sorts of ways that keep you sad..... living with anxiety..... until you let it out and explore it.
The good news is..... all that pain isn't going to stay.....
or be for nothing.
It gets better. ::nodding::
You'll grow through it and realize you are really and truly glad to be alive again.
In the meantime...... enjoy that baby girl. I get shivers remembering the quiet comfort of our changing ritual and bedtime ritual and breast feeding ritual.... THE most amazing time of my life and I'm having a hard time moving past baby phase.
I envy you the joy you have before you.
Please remember to take time every day and experience the moment you're in. Look at her little face and remember that this time will be gone before you know it.
Gone... puff!
You'll have a hard time remembering the details. Write them down. Journal moments. Good moments, scary moments, light bulb going off moments, lessons on everything that worked from gas meds and diaper rash cream and how you figured ot how to solve these problems bc one day.... she'll ask you for your advice and support. You'll pull out that little journal and be amazed at all the things you once knew about babies, lol.
No one will ever know her better than you. Stand tall with her doctors and be heard. Don't let them marginalize you jac andI'll look forward to seeing you grow on the board ((())))
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We had (and still have) problems like this... Names, etc...
There is only one problem: Your mother.
Don't change any name or anything. Don't ask anything to your
mother. Don't expect ANYTHING from her.
She is trying to GET your daughter as HERS. She would just play
with her as she is `playing' with you. Your daughter deserves better:
she deserves YOU. Protect your daughter: minimize contacts with
your mother (both for you and your whole family). Don't even speak about
names with your mother. Don't let her babysit, etc... if you can. Take
all the guilt/stress/bad feelings you have, put them in an imaginary
ball and leave it with your mother. Her problem. Love your husband,
your children. Take time for yourselves and keep it precious (don't
give your memories to her). Live YOUR life. Go and see a specialist to
help you. As soon as you can and you are ready.
Do this for your children, your husband, and for you.
You are neither the cause or the solution of your mother's problems.
She shouldn't be or try to be the center of this time of your life.
Put her aside. Now.
Congratulations ! I am sure you have wonderful children, all of them.
Bug.
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Thanks everyone!
The reason my mother and I didn't speak for 18 months was b/c of a big argument we had where i finally told her what i thought about her kind of "mothering". The year before I had named our son in honor of my grandfather (HER father) but she dissed everyone at the Christening and never showed up over some trivial comment i had made which she twisted into something ugly. She ignored me for 2 months - even when i fell ill and couldn't take care of my NB. So i had to have my MIL (out of state) come and extend her visit for a month while my MIL (not my mother who lived 10 min away) nursed me back to health. My own mother ignored my calls and never once asked about me or the baby. I cried several times to my MIL and my DH was so upset, he went over to my mother to tear a strip off of her - but in true N fashion, my mother pretended she was not home.
Even though I knew i was right and my mother was wrong, my sister begged me to "do whatever it takes to make the peace" b/c my grandmother was visiting for only a short time and my mother had cut off my sister too b/c she dared to defend me against my mother's actions. "Grandma is only here for a few more weeks. PLLEEEAAASE, just suck up your pride Jackie and tell mom whatever just so this whole thing blows over".
Mistake #1: I did. I apologized to my mother and took full responsibility for everything just so she would let me see my grandmother. I was seething inside but i loved my grandmother more. This led to a fragile truce which lasted for several months. Looking back I should have nipped this in the bud and told her the behaviour was unacceptable and established boundaries. But no. I let things slide...which reinforced her sick way of thinking and made her even more brazen in the future.
Then, the unthinkable happened. My father (whom she divorced when i was 7 and badmouthed my entire life) decided to give me and my sister our inheritance early, so we could pay off our houses, bills etc while we are still young. My father's father died at only 55 and my dad (now 57) was starting to have health issues and was sure his number was coming up and wanted to do this for us and let us enjoy life with him for the few years he has left. It was also a conscience purge for him b/c he was not there for us growing up and paid only the bare minimum of child support while we were young.
Mistake #2: I thought long and hard about accepting this money but in the end, i'm not going to let my family suffer over some petty grudge. I had made up with my dad at my wedding so i gladly accepted the money....
My mother was furious!
a) b/c i didn't tell her my dad was giving us money - she had to find out from strangers
b) b/c i accepted the money - i have no loyalty to her and was "bribed" with his love
c) b/c it was a lot of money and i did not split it with my 15 yo. brother from her second marriage - i am selfish, greedy, only see "the money"
My mother sat us (me and my sister) down and told us she wished she never bore us b/c we are selfish, greedy, rich b*tches who are flaunting money around and rubbing it in her face. Then she started in on her big "mother of the century speach" how she was always there for us, did everythign for us, etc. etc. This is when I had enough and challenged her on how she abandoned me when i just gave birth and wouldn't care for me when i was sick with a NB. I told her "my MIL was more of a mother to me than my own mother. She was doing YOUR job. Where were you? Sulking. Your pride was more important than taking care of your sick daughter." My mother was furious, tired to slap me across the face, told me to shut the hell up before she makes me shut up. So i said, "no, YOU shut up for a change. I'm speaking now". She ran away and refused to speak to me for 18 months. All of my cards, letters, phone calls etc...all unanswered.
Finally i was PG with my dd and i thought she would come around to the baby shower. Nope. I thought she would call when i told her the baby was born. Nope. Only when i had to go for surgery and it was very serious did she bother to come and make the peace and only after i had cried to her on the phone, weeping that i might not see my baby grow up and to please forgive me mama, did her heart of stone soften and did she come to see me. Not only that, but she told me that
a) I was not going to die
b) I brought it all on myself b/c it was punishment for not respecting her as a mother. God was answering her prayers to show me how much i needed a mother.
And can you believe it? Through it all, I STILL had this stupid fantasy of naming my DD Mary and telling my mother and she would be so honored and pleased and we would all be this big, happy, loving family. But the surgery changed all of that & so i wept to my mom and asked her what i should name her. And she had her human face on that day and told me "Who cares about the name....look at your daughter and name her from your heart. What does she MEAN to you?"
Mistake #3: So i did. Even though my whole life i planned on calling her Mary, we christened her Jackie. TO this day i wonder if i had done it for the right reasons. Being afraid of dying is not a very good reason. And when i saw how disappointed my mother was, I thought i made a horrible mistake. I KNEW Mary would make my mother happy. I KNEW this and I deprived my mother and chose myself instead. I cried, "mom, i'm sorry i did not name her Mary" and she left without a word b/c i humiliated her. So i am kicking myself for not giving my mother this one thing. I berate myself for making her so unhappy. "You haven't changed...she sneered...."you are still the same selfish, self-absorbed b*tch you always were".... maybe i am.
I wouldn't feel so bad if Jackie was a name i had always planned on, but it wasn't. My DD was born on my mother's birthday so according to her its a "sign from God" she should have been Mary.....After i recoverd and found out everything was fine with my health, i had big regrets of not calling her Mary. Now i'm the reason my poor baby isn't going to have a relationship with her grandma. I know my mother doesn't give a damn about her other grandkids, but litte MARY she would care about. Little Mary would be praced around and shown off proudly. Now my mother doesn't even acknowledge that Jackie exisits. I feel sick to my stomach over this. I shouldn't have pushed Jackie in a moment of weakness. I don't know if its worth it to keep Jackie knowing how miserable it is making my mother. A child should be a happy thing and i've turned it into somethign awful.
So that's it. My mother is not speaking to me now Again and its my fault, Again. I don't really miss HER, but i do miss my brother and my extended family, aunts, uncles, grandmother etc. I wish i had named her Mary b/c at least there would have been peace for awhile. At least i could have seen my grandmother before she died. Now i am not welcome b/c she believes my mothers lies.
I don't know what i can and can't live with. I have tired to make peace with my mother since then but there is no moving on her part. There can never be peace she tells me. Not until i "fix it" she says. I am wracking my brain trying to figure something out, but i cna't think of anything.
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Jackie,
Your post is really honest, and it sounds like you are hurting so much. I am really sorry.
I went NC with my NMum 13 years ago, and at a swipe she stopped me having contact with my whole extended family (all except my Dad, who defied her and kept seeing me, so she divorced him after 37 years of marriage). It hurts to lose the whole family at once, I know. You could try contacting them by letter, explaining your side of things, to see if they want to see you anyway. But it might not work - she won't have told them the truth, will she? But you DO have the right to tell them 'your side' if you want to.
Janet
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Jackie: I played the lottery yesterday. My fantasy is having more money than my mom. I am a Christian and I know I am to look to God to supply all my needs. But because my mother is loaded, it is as if she has stepped in and become God to everyone in our family and business. We have to beg for her to throw us a crumb. If someone came along and handed me a huge chunk of money, I would feel relieved to be out from under my mother's thumb. Especially since I work with her.......yikes!!!
It sounds to me if you decided to, you could go on with your life without your mom and be better for it!! It sounds to me that the only power and control she has over you is in your own mind. Do NOT feel guilty. That is what these N women are famous for. NEVER GOOD ENOUGH. I have always felt that the only way my mom would be happy is if I lived my life according to HER will. Well, I have a mind of my own and so I have learned to say NO to her on a pretty regular basis. It irks her every single time. But this is what she does, she calls up at 4:30 and asks me if anyone in my family wants to go with her to look at the hot air balloons at 6 pm.....have to leave at 5:30 (one hour lead time......) It is 100 degrees outside and I said no.....she's a little perturbed. But you know? THe song Cats in the Cradle is so appropriate to her....................she blew me off when I was young and now I blow her off. What goes around comes around. So, in my opinion Jackie? Tell her to take a flying leap!!
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J,
DO YOU REALIZE HOW MUCH YOU HAVE DONE THE RIGHT
THING BY CALLING YOUR DAUGHTER JACKIE ?
And I also believe you have done the right thing by accepting the
early inheritance from your Dad...
Hugs,
B.
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Gosh Jac:
That's a whole life of hurt and I don't have any simple answers for you.
I don't think you can please your mother, no matter how much you sacrafice to/for her.
I don't think she can help it.
Asking her to understand or do better is like asking a diabetic's pancreas to please see the error of it's ways and make corrections.
It's not reasonable and all you can do is make better choices for yourself, starting today.
Be really really sad that you didn't get a decent mother.... you were truly gypped. You deserve to mourne it and grieve and feel every mean thing she did to you and accept that she'll never be sorry or treat you with kindness.
That's just so sad and I'm sorry it happened to you ((Jac))
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J,
DO YOU REALIZE HOW MUCH YOU HAVE DONE THE RIGHT
THING BY CALLING YOUR DAUGHTER JACKIE ?
And I also believe you have done the right thing by accepting the
early inheritance from your Dad...
Hugs,
B.
If its the right thing, how come it doesn't FEEL like i did the right thing? I have absolutely no peace over it when i think about my mother i feel terrible that i didnt name her Mary. I feel tremendous guilt, sadness etc. The only time i feel happy with the name Jackie is when i'm not thinking about my mother at all. I don't even want to take my daughter to see my mother b/c everytime i try to she scowls at her and won't even hold her or anything. A knife in the heart is what my mother calls her. Sick.
And the money? Its made our lives easier....and harder....the DRAMA i've had to endure from my mother since she found out is unbearable. My entire life she told me how useless my father is - will never do anything for me etc....now here he goes and shows up my mother and she's LIVID...absolutely livid. She cannot live it down. She calls me a greedy, blind, selfish idiot...she hopes the money is "worth it b/c you've lost your mother" garbage.
A NORMAL mother would be happy and pleased her daughter is financially secure....not her. Its a big competition. She refuses to show up anywhere my father is b/c he has more money than her. By accepting my fathers generosity, i've proven to her that i have no loyalty and love him more than her...petty bullshit... her dream would have been for me to tell my father to f-off and rip the cheque in his face. I refused to do it. He wanted to help us and we're grateful. My mother just can't live it down and cuts us to shreds every chance she gets.
My daughter was the final straw. If i had named her Mary she could have "saved face" in front of my dad....but i just didn't get it. I chose myself over her. The guilt i feel is unbearable sometimes.
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Dear Jackie,
Feelings lie.
Once the thoughts are straight, the feelings will follow.
Love,
Hope
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Dear Jac,
You have layers of pain and distortions that you need to let go of.. It will take time. Right now, you are opening up about your life. Maybe, you never have before. If you have, I bet that people did not understand. So, It is probably new for you to have people who "get "it. Just keep sharing and people will help you to heal step by step.
I read some books on NPD that helped me.This helped me to get out of denial-. You are describing the N mother--perfectly. It will probably help to know that she fits a category(IMO) rather than not knowing what is happening. It helped me
What you are going through is a normal reaction to abnormal circumstances( an N mother)
Keep Sharing. Love Ami.
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Hi Jacqueline,
I'm worried that your precious baby will be cheated of your full, loving, joyous attention...and that you'll never be able to feel clean joy when you think her name.
You can re-christen a child.
Would you consider it? I think this name thing could hurt her and interfere with your and your daughter's relationship.
Harmony.
love
Hops
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Hi Jacqueline,
I'm worried that your precious baby will be cheated of your full, loving, joyous attention...and that you'll never be able to feel clean joy when you think her name.
You can re-christen a child.
Would you consider it? I think this name thing could hurt her and interfere with your and your daughter's relationship.
Harmony.
love
Hops
I worry about this too....all of the time...i worry that I will regret for the rest of my life that I did not name her Mary....of course if something were to happen to me tomorrow, i would be upset that I didn't keep Jackie. Even after everythign my mother has done to me, i was going to the hospital to birth her with full intent on calling her Mary....my brush with death changed all of that...
I feel i'm suffering from post traumatic stress b/c i am constantly worried about death now and if i will live to see my daughter grow up. My mother does not understand this paralyzing fear i've been living with since i left the hospital. I know that tomorrow is not guaranteed for anyone, but I never THOUGHT of it constantly before...its like my innocence is lost....same thing like when you are PG (you KNOW there is a 15% chance of miscarriage with every PG - but you never think it will happen to you)....after you have a m/c you worry about each and every PG.
My husband is on board with changing the name but he wants it done for the right reasons (b/c i truly feel in my heart it is the RIGHT thing to do and not b/c i just want to please my mother)...Not that we could please her anyways...I just don't know how i feel right now...which is why we are not going to order the birth certificate until we are both sure of what we want to do.
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Dear CB,
Did you have an actual NDE? If so, would you talk about it-- in another thread or here.? Thanks Ami
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Hi Jackie,
I think: you are a good person. You are a person with sense. You are
a person with reason.
I think you are a good mother. I think you have a great husband.
I am sure your daughter is wonderful as well as your sons.
I think that the more you allow your daughter to be her own person,
the better it is. I think that this is opposite to what your mother
would like. I think that she would rather have Jackie be a little herself
so she could either inflate any positive thing that she (Jackie) does
like if she had done it or inflate any negative thing that J does to
complain how bad J is so she (your mother) is not bad.
I am really sorry that your mother treats you like she does. I think
that she feels that you are escaping (probably have escaped) her and she
feels she is not going to be able to control your beautiful daughter.
By giving your daughter her own name (Jackie, is HER name.),
I think you protected her from the fantasies your mother might have
projected on her. That's why I think you have done the right thing.
I am tempted to see your experience at the hospital as luck that protected
your daughter...
In my opinion, there is no emergency of any kind (except maybe
taking care of yourself and relaxing). Stay in your bubble
of love with your husband, and children. Speak with your doctors. Ask
your husband to order some delivery food and some cleaning service for
your home. And some flowers for you...
Much love,
I forgot earlier: Congratulations !!! :)
Buggy.