Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Lupita on July 27, 2007, 09:41:48 AM
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Dear friends, yesterday I felt wonderful. Knowing that I did what is was correct. Today I feel very sad. What triggered it?
It seems like Write says that Lighter wants to keep things private. I read her post and I felt a lot of pain there. I thought that it needed its own thread. Maybe I did not help and I made her feel bad.
Then I feel bad because instead of dealing with the behavior of my "friends", I cut them out of my life. I should have enforce my boundaries and then take action. They were abusing me because I provoked it with my needy attitud. I regret now. Why I regret? I do not know. I have two new "friends" that are going to the dance with me. I will drive, but I choose to do that. My son only 20, he deals with his friends and keeps the friends forever. I was afraid to deal, I feel desperate, instead of dealing I just left. Maybe, since I have not resigne officially fromn the book club, I should just go back in a a month as I said. P is an N and I dont want her. That I dont want. That has no way to teach her.
Later when I went to the gym, one of the trainers who always was very nice to me, suddenly turned totally indifferent. She is only nice in private, but when her other collegues are there she totally ignores me. Maybe she does not want to show her colleges that she is nice to me. Came home very sad.
These little things should not make me sad. Today I feel so sad, it is rediculous.
Why, little stupid things make me scared? I mean literally scared. I should not be scared if a young lady probably 20 does not say hello to me, she makes no more that 7.00/hr, she probably did not even finish high school, not going to college, why her sympathy is so important to me. Not everybody has to like me.
I am trying to give information to Jackelin new poster about N mother, because that will help her understand that she does not need to please her mother, she will never be pleased. But I have the eeling that I am not helping.
Why do I need to feel needed? I do not need anybody, I said it yesterday. I do not need anybody to say hello, I do not need anybody to love me, I can love my self. I am an adult.
Then, why the heck I am so sad?
Does this happens to any of you, guys? dear friends? do you feel bad when somebody does not salute you?
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Lupita Lupita Lupita!
I hear your struggle because it sounds like the strugglings within myself. Tried to write about them yesterday on the board. I so hear what you are saying. You act out of love for Lighter and then question yourself because the results aren't exactly what you hoped it would look or feel like for the benefit of Lighter. This happened to me yesterday on the board too. Tried to communicate with someone in what I thought was loving and the reaction was one of defense. Causes me to question myself! Feel so sad! Less confident in acting! All I have to say to you, though, is that I saw your love for Lighter and concern for her. It was a gracious thing to do for a friend!
"Why do I need to feel needed? I do not need anybody."
Are we just lying to ourselves when we say than we don't need anybody? We do need each other! We do! I don't know, completely, the difference between being needy and having healthy needs is. I think it is human nature to want to feel needed and valuable to someone else. I think it is painful when we aren't allowed to be a viable participant in relationships. (like we are with our N's). I do feel bad when someone I like doesn't return the love I send out. It hurts. Could it be that it is ok that it hurts? Maybe it justs gets us into trouble when we attach it to our self worth.
I don't know, Lupita. But I am in the struggle with you!! Trying so hard NOT to need. Trying so hard to find enough love for myself that others aren't so crucial to the way I see myself. This is a tough one for me. I think children DO need their parents to show them worth by their love and support and care. I think it is a basic need. For us who didn't get that, the road is difficult, to say the least. :) I am scared too! I know how that feels. I think there are answers, though. So much of the information you posted is so valuable. Your posts to Jac, for example. I saw my own N family illustrated so beautifully. So helpful for me. I feel more power to detach! Your contribution to the boundaries discussion is so valueable and I took away much from it.
I am no expert on all this muck! But I am determined. You are doing great!!! And asking these questions are great too. Maybe we can figure out how to push through all of our thinking errors and find the places of rest!
--mof4
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Hi Lupita,
I know the feeling of hurt and confusion that I hear in your post. (((((((Lupita)))))). I salute you!! :)
You took a risk.....by starting that thread. Every time one reaches out to another person ....it's a risk.
The person may or may not accept the hand one is offering or believe one's intentions are to help or they may not react the way one expects, at all. Sometimes, the response can be downright nasty!
(and my bet is....that might be because the person hears/feels truth in what is being said/done and prefers to remain in denial).
Your reaching out shows you are brave enough to take the risk and kind enough to bother.
How the other person reacts, is about them.
Boundaries can be tricky. If a person feels their boundaries have been invaded, they might react to reset those or clarify where they are. It's hard to be aware of all boundaries of every person alive, especially since many of us have not had very good training in that department. I think we are all bound to over step boundaries now and then and it's part of learning.
Please be as kind to yourself. Maybe you did help and Lighter feels cared about, supported, understood?
They were abusing me because I provoked it with my needy attitud.
I don't like this thought at all! Aren't you taking the blame for being abused? Giving them an excuse for abusing you?
There is no excuse!!
There are lot's of needy people in the world but that does not give anyone a license to abuse them. What do you think?
And as far as I can see, you did enforce your boundaries by cutting abusive people out of your life.
Please give yourself credit for that?
Sela
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Dear Lupita,
From what I can see of you, you are trying to give other people that which you desire for yourself... and that's a beautiful thing!
Your tender heart is trying to do unto others as you would have others do unto you.
I don't think that many people are accustomed to that sort of kindness. The way this world is nowadays, folks seem to be shocked by any sign of genuine concern and caring... they don't know what to do with it!
I do still feel that sadness when somebody doesn't acknowledge me... even a stranger, who allows a door to close in my face, as though I'm not even there. For a long while, I felt that sadness as anger and resentment... so I think it's a good thing to just recognize the sadness and not allow it to morph into other emotions.
And I'll tell you something - I realized lately that I've been so preoccupied at times that I am certain I've failed to acknowledge someone... and maybe even allowed a door to close on them. And I know that I've let emotional doors close on the people I love most, because I didn't trace anger and resentment back to their roots... back to the sadness and fear.
Now some people are just downright rude, that's a fact. But in more situations than I ever before realized, I think that others are just wrapped up in their own business and oblivious to the world around them. For those people, who are as I have been and sometimes still am, at times, I feel sad.
I'm feeling sad for my mother these days, more and more. Sad that she does not have the tools to reach out to those who love her. That sadness sprouted out of the sadness I was feeling for myself, just last week, as I grieved the fact that she hadn't given me the tools I needed. So it grows and changes and runs its course... and I'm sorry that you feel sad, Lupita... but I am very glad for you that you are able to feel sad. That is a blessing.
Hope that makes sense.
Love,
Hope
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((((((((((Lupita))))))))))
It is sad.
The realization that, unlike us, there are a lot of people out there who don’t care about anything except themselves and getting their own needs met.
It is heartbreakingly sad on so many different levels. Sad when the realization comes when you open your heart to someone and the stab it. Sad when you become good friends with someone and all they do is use you. Sad when you try to express your light, and someone is so self-centered that all they can do is try to put that light out.
If only they realized that if we all shared and took joy in each other’s light, then each of our individual lights become stronger, until we all blaze.
I have experienced people who try to extinguish that light also. It is ok to feel sad, because everything you have gone through recently IS sad.
I think you were right to break it off with those “friends.” Their only interest was to try and extinguish your light. You are just learning to set boundaries and to try and enforce those boundaries. But if these are the type of people I think they are, they will never respect your boundaries (probably won't even see them). No matter how hard you try, they will stomp all over your boundaries because their sole goal is to have their own needs met. Trying to set boundaries with people like these will only cause more frustration and pain.
There is hope though. Now you are free to find friends that won’t try to extinguish your light. Friends that will respect your boundaries, and they are out there.
I also wanted to say that the post you started for lighter was beautiful. It was a lovely thing to do, and showed you cared, a lot, about her. I was very touched when I read it.
Peace
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I think you did help Lupita, Lighter has written to you about it below.
My caution was general actually, and is something I say over and over and which has caused problems on the Board ( and in life ) before, I can sum it up easily in
keep the PM stuff private
I was concerned that some stuff might accidentally spill into there is all.
Why do you need to be needed?
We all need to be needed.
What I and I guess some others are working through right now is how to be with others without dropping all boundaries and without protecting self.
I am havign a very hard time with my faith around this, because Jesus was very specific about the role of self-sacrifice and love, but how to turn the other cheek without it hurting me I haven't worked out yet.
Every time one reaches out to another person ....it's a risk.
Sela's right.
But so is Finding Peace
there are a lot of people out there who don’t care about anything except themselves and getting their own needs met.
I meet people like this all the time every day, and more in America than anywhere else I've been.
There's a cultural as well as personal lack of empathy often, and sensitive people are going to get extra-bitten by the spoiled attitudes, false friendliness, financial taking advantage and nasty churches.
folks seem to be shocked by any sign of genuine concern and caring... they don't know what to do with it!
I think many people are triggered by compassion and love, it's just words in romance movies or sermons.
For the people who actually think about all this stuff- it's pretty hard to stomach.
But one thing I will say to you directly Lupita, even if you thought you were upsetting me personally it's not the end of the world, it really isn't insurmountable to sort out miscommunications or disagreements or crossness etc with most people.
We've been dealing with the people who made our lives hell for such things, the pathological minority who you can't win with, who have issues that aren't even anything to do with us.
But we can and do negotiate our way through more balanced relationships as we recover from the trauma.
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Write,
This last post is a powerful one for me and really illustrates the delimmas I face. In my quest to find self love, I don't want to become so walled off that no one can touch me. That one of my friends can't point out a character flaw or that I can't see a soul in need and provide some needed support. I don't want to be so full of my own need to get my needs met, that I ignore others needs around me and others gifts. I really do want to follow Christ. I want to be self sacrificing and willing to serve. But as I read of Christ, many tried to tell Him that He was not who He said He was. He never faultered in his own identity and worth. I think you are correct when you say it is really a battle on the "boundaries" front. Feel like I need to learn so much with regard to that. But I appreciate your descriptions of the delimma. Helps me to understand myself and others better.
mof4
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I am havign a very hard time with my faith around this, because Jesus was very specific about the role of self-sacrifice and love, but how to turn the other cheek without it hurting me I haven't worked out yet.
I've struggled with this too, write.
My conclusion is, it's supposed to hurt, otherwise it isn't a sacrifice. And it is usually only through pain that we either grow or mature.
What I have struggled with lately is the point at which we balance self sacrifice with two other things:
1. Preventing continuing evil when it is in our power to do so and;
2. The point at which self sacrifice becomes destructive rather than edifying.
Martin Luther's take was that we had no right to defend ourselves but an absolute duty to defend others. Don't know that I agree with that but it is an interesting starting point.
mud
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Again, why, why, why.
I felt so sad and so useless, for nothing. Lighter said she appreciated me. Why the minimum possibility of losing a friend, or losing aproval or whatever, makes me unfunctional. I am doing better, anyway.
I felt sad but not as sad as I used to.
My friend P called and I let the phone ring. I will return her call at my convenience. There she is calling again. What the heck she wants? Is she getting worried about losing her victim? he he. No more driving her around.
And here in the board, I will be honest, hoping that my honesty does not bother anybody.
If I hurt anybody unintentionally of course. Please, let me know. We will deal with it. I will start dealing instead of running away.
I am going to choose the wardrob for the dance tonight. I will post when i come back to let you know how much I danced.
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Bravo, Lupita!
From desolation to dancing.
I need
you need
we need
I think it's just that after a while it becomes so EXHAUSTING to feel so desperate that some little cylinder in our head clicks and we just...turn.
Turn in our thoughts. Turn toward self-love, in a simple way.
I think we can make self-love sound like such an enormous project, when really it is--a moment.
One of my favorite stories from CS Lewis, in Surprised by Joy, was of his "conversion experience." Verrrrrrrry low-key, after he'd wrestled and wrestled and struggled with the thinking. He wrote that he was on his way to give a lecture, and when he got in the car, he wasn't sure he believed that Christ was the son of god, and when he got there, he did. Just a quiet moment in the back of a cab.
So maybe "getting it" about self-love is the same kind of thing. Maybe it's not about struggling to love ourselves, but stopping. Waiting. Breathing. Stirring the soup.
Hope you have a happy happy night, Lupita!
hugs
Hops
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Dear Lupita,
I think that the board can help you learn to deal with people in real life. You will encounter- here - many situations that you encounter in real life
With this situation with Lighter. You tried to do a loving thing and Lighter did not want you to( I am guessing b/c I do understand the whole situation)
You apologized. Then WRITE said that it was a misunderstanding. You learned many lessons here.You reached out to someone-- with love. It did not work out 'right". You faced this and apologized. The other person said ,"No problem."
It was a resolution of an issue between people. As you write and interact on the board more, you will have many other situations to face. You will handle them the way that you did this one. Then, you will get confidence for real people like the book club people( or anyone else) Love Ami
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I don't know how long this thread is so I'll c&p your post Lupita. My children came home with me late last night and I've been very busy with them.... maybe I posted that but I've read so little on the boards and there's so much I really want to respond to when I glance over: )
Now..... as for your post, dear.
Everyone goes in and out of feeling sad when they're learning how to be alone with themselves. There will be times of despair, sure..... getting through those times is what makes you stronger. I don't know how it works exactly, it just does. If you go back to those users in the book club, you won't move through this and beyond.
That would be going back to your old coping strategies, that don't work real well for ya. IF you go through the pain and re learn new coping strategies, that are healthy and actually work for you, you experience true growth. It just takes some time (((Lupita))).
Try to put your helmet back on and rise far above..... view yourself from a great distance, remember? Observe those around you without assuming any personal involvment. They aren't being mean to you bc you deserve it. They're mean bc they know they can get away with it. They're mean bc they have hurt in their hearts..... and anger. If they transfer it to other's..... it makes them feel less awful, for some reason. You and I will never understand that. We'll don't have to, thank God. We just have to recognize it for what it is and stop believing that nasty super ego in our heads that tells us we're always the problem.... we're never good enough.
Dear friends, yesterday I felt wonderful. Knowing that I did what is was correct. Today I feel very sad. What triggered it?
It seems like Write says that Lighter wants to keep things private. I read her post and I felt a lot of pain there. I thought that it needed its own thread. Maybe I did not help and I made her feel bad.
Then I feel bad because instead of dealing with the behavior of my "friends", I cut them out of my life. I should have enforce my boundaries and then take action. They were abusing me because I provoked it with my needy attitud. I regret now. Why I regret? I do not know. I have two new "friends" that are going to the dance with me. I will drive, but I choose to do that. My son only 20, he deals with his friends and keeps the friends forever. I was afraid to deal, I feel desperate, instead of dealing I just left. Maybe, since I have not resigne officially fromn the book club, I should just go back in a a month as I said. P is an N and I dont want her. That I dont want. That has no way to teach her.
Later when I went to the gym, one of the trainers who always was very nice to me, suddenly turned totally indifferent. She is only nice in private, but when her other collegues are there she totally ignores me. Maybe she does not want to show her colleges that she is nice to me. Came home very sad.
These little things should not make me sad. Today I feel so sad, it is rediculous.
Why, little stupid things make me scared? I mean literally scared. I should not be scared if a young lady probably 20 does not say hello to me, she makes no more that 7.00/hr, she probably did not even finish high school, not going to college, why her sympathy is so important to me. Not everybody has to like me.
I am trying to give information to Jackelin new poster about N mother, because that will help her understand that she does not need to please her mother, she will never be pleased. But I have the eeling that I am not helping.
Why do I need to feel needed? I do not need anybody, I said it yesterday. I do not need anybody to say hello, I do not need anybody to love me, I can love my self. I am an adult.
Then, why the heck I am so sad?
Does this happens to any of you, guys? dear friends? do you feel bad when somebody does not salute you?
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Hey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you so much for your notes, for taking the time to read, to write me those wonderful notes. This has been great help.
I had a wonderful time. The dance was full, full, 400 people. I danced like crazy with several gentlemen. One guy that I like behaved as if I was monopolizing him. I was just enjoying that he was an advanced student and it feels wonderful to dance with somebody from whom you can learn. So, when I felt the vibration I said, oh, I need to rink something and go to the ladies room. So instead of drinking and going to the br I went walking around and said hello to one of the beginners adn he immediately asked me if i would practice with him, I did. It does not feel so well to dance with a beginner, but it felt so well to show that other arrogant man that he is not the light of my night. Anyway, after that I grab a drink and started talking to somebody else, when another beginner asked me to practice with him, then, I did. when i finished dancing with those two students, the first arrogant came back to ask me if I would dance with him again. After that, he did not let me alone. He knew if he left me alone, I would not stay alone. We talked and dance for the rest of the night. My lesson, if I started feeling bad because of his initial rejection, I would not have been able to reover for the rest of the night. At the end, I was the one wo tought him a lesson. And I did not feel anything when I saw him dancing dancing with another lady. Some how I am getting the detachament that I so much need.
Probably, if the person is not terribly sick, and the person is working hard and studying and reading and meditating, it might just be possible to heal with only the board's help. Guess we have to thank Dr. G for that.
Guys, I feel great, like I never felt in many years.
God bless you.
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I just loved this post Lupita, lol. Let that phone ring when P calls, lol.... hee. It gives me a little shiver to share that giggle with you; )
I agree with Mud, we grow through the pain. The more pain, the bigger the lesson's going to be, IMO. (((Lupita)))
I hope you DANCED! last night: )
Again, why, why, why.
I felt so sad and so useless, for nothing. Lighter said she appreciated me. Why the minimum possibility of losing a friend, or losing aproval or whatever, makes me unfunctional. I am doing better, anyway.
I felt sad but not as sad as I used to.
My friend P called and I let the phone ring. I will return her call at my convenience. There she is calling again. What the heck she wants? Is she getting worried about losing her victim? he he. No more driving her around.
And here in the board, I will be honest, hoping that my honesty does not bother anybody.
If I hurt anybody unintentionally of course. Please, let me know. We will deal with it. I will start dealing instead of running away.
I am going to choose the wardrob for the dance tonight. I will post when i come back to let you know how much I danced.
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CB, I will try to close the book. I have been trying to do that forever. The past comes and hunts me. How? It is a scorpion in my heart. He constantly sticks his poisonous tail in my heart.
I will erase her. I erased P, I will erase her too. I have bigger fishes to frie, rather than a hello from anybody.
Detachment, detahcment, detachment. Practice, practice, practice.
Thank God. Detachment came automatically yesterday. I just did not feel. No expectations, no desappointment. I am not really pretty. But I felt pretty. Thta made a huge difference.
Love you!!!!!
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wow Hop that is so true.
I think it's just that after a while it becomes so EXHAUSTING to feel so desperate that some little cylinder in our head clicks and we just...turn
Yesterday I felt well. I remember similar situations where I felt exhausted. Just to think of O and A and P, it is exhausting, I have to erase that.
It is erased.
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Hey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
, after that I grab a drink and started talking to somebody else, when another beginner asked me to practice with him, then, I did. when i finished dancing with those two students, the first arrogant came back to ask me if I would dance with him again. After that, he did not let me alone. He knew if he left me alone, I would not stay alone.
Heh..... if you're busy.... people really ARE drawn to you, lol!
I just loved that you went on with your evening and found other things to do, rather than feel rejected by ego boy.
In this case, I suspsect the first arrogant boy wants to assert his right and authority to posess you, if he chooses. I don't want to upset you or scare you but..... keep your gaurd up.
Don't give him any information about yourself. Remain aloof and busy, you can dance with him all you want but..... don't let him step on your shiney new boudaries, Lupita.
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[Lupita,
You asked why it devastates you so to be ignored by people. I think when we feel deeply devastated because someone didnt say "hi" to us, it's because we need so much to have every bit of that approval in order to feel good in our own skin. I suspect, Lupita, that you feel very bad about yourself most of the time and you are very dependent on every bit of attention--kind of like crossing a deep, dangerous stream by stepping from rock to rock. You can't afford to take the next step unless a rock is there to land on.
There are some deep internal things to do to break free of this kind of thinking, and I see you doing them and not holding back from the hard work of facing your feelings and dealing with their origins. In addition you could do a couple of other things that both involve facing outwards: one, try to recognize that most people are focused on themselves more than you. That's both a curse and a blessing It sometimes it means that you don't get the empathy you would like, but it also means that you are probably not being actively rejected as much as you think
This ( above) is very profound. In my uncovering of the layers of my true self, I am coming to these lessons.I have been so dependent on outside approval b/c I felt so,very badly about myself. I was trying to fix the inside by controlling the outside.
Today, while I was exercising , I was thinking about Lupita's posts. I was trying to remember the 'happiest" times in my life. They were times when I was whole. The times when I was being complimented, approved of or found a new boyfriend were exciting,but they were not fufilling. When I was at peace wih myself, that was fufillling. I remember small slices in time when I was happy. Many of them involve other people ,but I was happy b/c I was in harmony inside--- not b/c the other person or situation "made" me happy.
As I heal, these slices in time are coming back to me. I am remembering the feelings that went with them. My happiest times were ALWAYS when I felt whole. The activity and the person were secondary.
CB's statement about "most people are worrying about themselves and not us" strikes me, too. I "knew" that when I was younger.. I was not that self conscious b/c I knew that no one was really very concerned about me. They were concerned about themselves. I could relax and just be me.
I remember how it felt to develop the qualities that I liked in me. I was a warm person and I liked that. I could make people feel comfortable. I had a good sense of humor. I ,also, tried to develop the character that I wanted. I wanted to act in a way that I could respect myself .These strivings for my own development gave me confidence This is the path, I think.Thank you CB. That was a great post Love Ami .
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[One of my favorite stories from CS Lewis, in Surprised by Joy, was of his "conversion experience." Verrrrrrrry low-key, after he'd wrestled and wrestled and struggled with the thinking. He wrote that he was on his way to give a lecture, and when he got in the car, he wasn't sure he believed that Christ was the son of god, and when he got there, he did. Just a quiet moment in the back of a cab.
Dear Hops,
I think that this(above)happened to me with self love. I think that there is a certain amount of "trash" that you have to take out, so to speak, before you can get the quiet revelation. It seems to be that way for me, anyway. Thanks for your kind posts to me, Hops Love Ami
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Hops,
I think that you would like CS Lewis' book Mere Christianity. He's a neat guy.
Love
CB
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I've always loved Lewis...got Mere on the shelf...right next to bio of the Dalai Lama, UU tomes...poetry...
(though maybe I relate even better to Screwtape!) :?
I loved the movie...Shadowlands, and Surprised by Joy. Grew up on (maybe in!) Narnia...
There's an innocence about him that reminds me of my dad, who was in Oxford during the war, and kinda don-ish...
Hops