Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: towrite on August 10, 2007, 11:06:40 AM
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I have been toying with the idea of writing my mother a note along the lines of "I just cannot tolerate any more of her disrespect towards me and if she wants to write me out of her will, that's fine with me."
Whaddya think? An opinion someone, please.
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Dear towrite,
Just my personal opinion here...
I prefer:
"I will not interact with you in any way apart from a basis of mutual respect."
First things first, I think :)
With love,
Hope
P.S. You would likely have to define your terms to N, since neither "mutual" nor "respect" are in the N-vocabulary, imo.
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Yes, thanks, CS. I will have to define terms with her. The note is more for me - a definite limit-setting. Boundaries.
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Towrite,
I did that with my NMum, just before I started NC. As Hope says, they don't know what you're on about. You would need to be VERY specific.
However, if you give exact examples of WHEN THEY WERE disrespectful, etc., etc., they'll say 'no I wasn't' and try to derail what you're trying to get over to them. If you DON'T give examples, they'll say 'what do you mean? It's just you being touchy,' etc.etc.
You can't win, IMO.
But yes, boundaries are good, if only so that YOU know you've set them.
Janet
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I guess for myself I'm tepid on the idea, if it was me doing it. My thought is she is bound to react poorly from your perspective, but from her perspective it is just like kerosene on the fire and she will just love the opportunity to do all those things Ns do like rage, punish you and lash at you and smear your image to others etcetera and so on.
I mean let's face it, whether you say so or not, an N with some money to leave in a will - it's just as if a terrorist had a hostage. I read 3 different boards and the N-with-a-will issue comes up again and again. Just last year my dad asked me to send him information on trust and estates attorneys and I sensed great danger. I sent him some information with no letter and no comment and never, ever, neverever mentioned it again.
I know you are telling her to go jump in a lake with that money, but whether you make a statement or not - she'll always be trying to get to you and hold it over your head and hold you for ransom (and she's got the ransom money). And let's face it, we are never going to see a dime because what N on this green earth could resist depriving us of it in a last gesture to drive their point home, always the same point?
I think that from an Ns perspective your strong and assertive statement is no different to them than all the other times we have gone against them, whether we even knew we were going against them or not. You know, like being happy and accomplishing something for ourselves, for example.
So if I made a statement I wouldn't mention any wills because she will jump on that like a monkey on a banana. And for me, I wouldn't make a statement at all. As far as boundaries are concerned, I am in the No See Um school. They are suddenly *there* with no advanced warning and no helpful signposts. Ive come to the conclusion, in direct contrast to my Ndad's belief, that I'm not here to help my N, guide, support or advise them. Especially I am not here to help them beat on me. They'll need to do that the hard way.
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For what my opinion is worth, I suggest no letter.
Whatever you would write might indicate that you are "starting something"
Just Begin No Contact and stick to it.
Should she contact you to see why you have not contacted her you can, if it's a letter, return it unopened
Should she telephone you to ask what is going on, One comment that it was the beginning of No Contact, because it is healthier for you, 'bye. and hang up
How does that sound? fit in?
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I ditto Iphi
Especially I am not here to help them beat on me.
and Izzy...
Why give her an opening to do more damage?
I think silent retreat is the most powerful and self-protective thing you can do.
And open the will can o' worms as you will. It backfired on me in that it gave her
the opportunity to manipulate, tease and torment me about it for several years.
(She knew I had huge anxiety about being able to afford to stay in this town,
because I'd been laid offx4 and had huge job instability after I moved here),
although after
a confrontation in which I asked not to "get" the house, but to have my
mother just TELL me how it would be settled (so I could make some security
plans for either contingency)...anyway, after all that, she did decide I could inherit it
and my brother could inherit the contents. She even said one night, while I was on the floor
cutting her toenails or something with my back killing me..."now I realize it
truly is fair to leave you the house." But it was years in resolving, and a high cost.
Anyway, for all those reasons...I fear your engineering a negative encounter,
which is imo how she would interpret your message.
Then again, you'd be stuck screening calls, etc... I don't know what's right for you.
I hope this helps, just as grist for the mill...
hugs
Hops
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Towrite,
If it helps..(Probably won't, but...)
I know that I've been cut out of my NMum's Will. I haven't ever spoken to her about it, but other relatives have told me so (possibly 'sent' by her to gauge my reaction??)
Anyway, I don't give a damn about her tainted money. It isn't worth thinking about. She'll leave it to Golden Child NSister of mine, and good riddance to both the money and the sister.
I'd advise you, really, to forget about the money without mentioning it. Bad money never did anyone any good.
Janet
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Thanks everyone. More grist for the mill.
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My mother plays those games too towrite.
To answer your question, my gut (and experience) tells me that N's are not people you can negotiate with, without backing up everything you say with actions. So if we say `I am not playing your game any more' as far as they are concerned, we are still in the `game' because we're communicating with them.
Good luck; I know its so hard to deal with a Mum like this, and worrying about your inheritance too. The money side of things is oddly confronting, isn't it?
X bella
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and Izzy...
Why give her an opening to do more damage?
Hops?
I didn't do this, but if I did, please quote my words--Here!
Thanks
Izzy
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and Izzy...
Why give her an opening to do more damage?
Hops?
I didn't do this, but if I did, please quote my words--Here!
Thanks
Izzy
Misunderstanding, Iz...
Hops was ditto-ing you... she just didn't write "ditto" again. See? She ditto-ed Iphy and you both. Dittoded? Dittodified? Oh, wutevah! :)
Love,
Hope
P.S. I am NOT a fixer. Oh no, I am not. :P
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Thanks Hopw.
I expect that answer from Hops.
She left me wide open with the..................
to carry on
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Thanks Hopw.
I expect that answer from Hops.
She left me wide open with the..................
to carry on
Yup yup.. permission to carry on, Ma'am...
lol
I expect hugs when it's all over :P
Love,
Hope
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Izzy, thats how I saw it too. Hops was agreeing with you. You made a good point!
Janet, that is so sad that you've been cut out of the will, and that the relatives know about it. But like you said,telling your relatives could be still part of the game of trying to control you. Maybe you'll wind up in the will anyway, and you could probably contest it.
I feel that money is so nice to have, but I guess I see my parent's money as theirs, because they earned it. If they want to try to play silly control games with it, and damage all their close relationships thats their choice. I don't really see it is as mine. I see it is as my responsibility to earn my own money. Though its a nice fantasy, having wealthy parents who support and love me:)
X Bella
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What I have done is just set my boundaries and allow my mom to blame me. I do not care what she thinks or says about me as long as I get the boundary. My family is too important to me to peter all ties. I would never "Dare" her to take ME out of her will-I would simply be cordial and not take her stuff!
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Yup, Izz...
I was agreeing with you, that dialogue about that opens a door for the N to reach in a tentacle and toy with you...
I agree, Bella, that my mother's estate belongs to her. I feel some shame that I even entertained any sense of entitlement. I remember that I was really desperately scared about the future. No retirement plan, no security whatsoever, and a commitment to care for her for the rest of her life. (My brother comes to visit a couple times a year.) So I am not sure I'm entitled, and perhaps I should nobly renounce it now. But I won't. There was too much fear, too much toying-with...and I honestly felt I "earned it" as her unpaid governess, nanny, sitter, and support.
Until about a year ago, I felt like Cinderella.
But the way I was raised, particularly by my father...it was a shameful thing to recognize how furious I was that she would strip me of my shelter in order to "look good" to my brother, who does not need the help.
Nah. I'm not "right." But I am relieved.
Hops
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I know Hops...its so confronting, because the money would help, especially since so many of us have had to battle with fears surrounding survival and independence (because of our parents). The bonus of a nice inheritance would be very, very nice, wouldn't it? I mean its something most people can expect, and there are certain emotions tied to it; its not `just money'. I hate `inheritance' games.
Hops, anyone who cares for their elderly parent, especially a toxic parent, has `earned' their inheritance. But its not really something most people feel like they have to earn is it? it so unfair that you even have to think about it, or feel guilt or shame about wanting to inherit what should be yours.
I only have my attitude about my parent's money being `their's' because it clears things is up in MY mind, and helps me keep strong about my boundaries.
PS. Hops, when you agreed to care for your mother, was there a sense of obligation or fear that you would not be left your inheritance?
X Bella
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Bella,
At first, I didn't even think about it at all.
I leapt into the companion-caretaker role with cheer.
Then the unemployment nightmare began, and for several years, my mother still expected me to pay her for sleeping in my old room. I did, for about three years. My mother's demands for daily attention and service were exhausting. Now, I don't resent it. Because she can't help it. But until a year or two back, she was hale and hearty and driving her car and very independent...except every day when she clutched and manipulated and plucked and whined and complained and needled and badgered and --well, you get the idea.
Then a friend said, "You're an au pair who pays for the privilege!"
Finally, after the 4th job in this small city had evaporated (for one year, I even commuted to California half the month) and I realized that my career was gone and I would never be able to earn a full living as I had been in the big city...my fears set in. She always pooh-poohed my worries, wouldn't listen to anything I tried to tell her about the out-of-control housing situation here, and then, seeing my fear and vulnerability...that's when the serious triangulating and manipulating and using the house like a carrot or stick began.
I think a lot of it was unconscious Nreflexive behavior and I am not angry any more. It's resolved, so although I inherit a mortgage too and will never really be out of debt, I have a chance at hanging onto it. Though I'll need to rent out room/s.
thanks for caring, Bella...
love
Hops
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Yup, Izz...
I was agreeing with you, that dialogue about that opens a door for the N to reach in a tentacle and toy with you...
Yup Hops.
thanks for agreeing..
..and Hugs all 'round for straightening me out on the dots............................
Izzy
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Bella,
At first, I didn't even think about it at all.
I leapt into the companion-caretaker role with cheer.
Then the unemployment nightmare began, and for several years, my mother still expected me to pay her for sleeping in my old room. I did, for about three years. My mother's demands for daily attention and service were exhausting. Now, I don't resent it. Because she can't help it. But until a year or two back, she was hale and hearty and driving her car and very independent...except every day when she clutched and manipulated and plucked and whined and complained and needled and badgered and --well, you get the idea.
Then a friend said, "You're an au pair who pays for the privilege!"
Finally, after the 4th job in this small city had evaporated (for one year, I even commuted to California half the month) and I realized that my career was gone and I would never be able to earn a full living as I had been in the big city...my fears set in. She always pooh-poohed my worries, wouldn't listen to anything I tried to tell her about the out-of-control housing situation here, and then, seeing my fear and vulnerability...that's when the serious triangulating and manipulating and using the house like a carrot or stick began.
I think a lot of it was unconscious Nreflexive behavior and I am not angry any more. It's resolved, so although I inherit a mortgage too and will never really be out of debt, I have a chance at hanging onto it. Though I'll need to rent out room/s.
thanks for caring, Bella...
love
Hops
You're a special Lady Hops. Your mother is so lucky to have you close by to care for her. Your attitude is such a gift, and it is inspiring to me, with all my fears surrounding dealing with the same scenario in the future. How is she doing now?
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Well, for someone who'll be 97 in a few months, amazingly well.
She has been declining a lot in the last year, especially the last six months.
But she can still walk (very tenuously with a walker or cane), read (without much retention but she enjoys it), enjoy chatting (though she doesn't remember enough to make real conversations work any more), dress herself (although if I'm not downstairs right when she's ready to go to bed she'll go to sleep in her clothes), and get herself to the bathroom.
Most of the time she has little pain (her back hurts now and then). She sleeps way more than she used to.
I hope I have her genes. But I more likely have my Dad's.
Is it true that the parent you resemble on the outside is the parent whose resilience or lack thereof you resemble on the inside?
Thank you (((Bella))),
Hops
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I think inheritance has been a big topic on this board. Almot every book I have read on Narcissism has talked about taking the Ns stuff in order to get an inheritance in the end. I think you can try to have it both ways. You can try to be nice so in the end you are not disinherited. BUT I also believe that you can set boundaries to protect yourself. When I first set boundaries it was a major deal. My nmom was so used to getting her way in every single situation. She was used to being able to control and manipulate me ALWAYS. When I finally set boundaries AT THE TOP OF MY LUNGS it was a bit unnerving for her. She thought I had lost it.....and I had. But now she respects my boundaries for the most part. One of the ways I ensure this is I speak out loud my boundaries in front of other people. It gives me validation when others tell me in front of my mom that I am doing the right thing. For instance......in a business meeting with a consultant I told everyone that I had a 12 year old autistic daughter and I was not willing to sacrifice her well being for our business - therefore, I would take a step back for the next five years until I get her grown. Although my mom understands this concept she still leans on me to be at work all the time. Now I say to her - NO, I am not going to do that because I need to be with my daughter......and I remind her that she cannot have it both ways so she needs to get used to that idea....and I have witnesses to back me up.....