Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: DivineSunshine on October 23, 2007, 01:03:25 PM
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Hi all!
I have been back in my home from a shelter about a week now. My husband who fought me hard and long seems to be playing the sympathy card now and has emailed me and told me he was in the doctors because he misses the kids so much it hurts! Won't tell me what happened though. But I didn't really ask.
Then he says, he has a referral from his doctor for a counselor. He has been insisting I am depressed and need a counselor for years. I know he wants to bring me in to prove I am the "problem". No way buddy! I won't fight himas in argue or stupid details, my only interest would be a safe place to tell him the truth about what an ass he has been over the years. For the childrens sake! I feel though I am walking into an ambush. I emailed him last week about a counselor and he ignored it. He is definitely trying to control me again. I also don't really like that he will know I will be away from home for a while. He does not associate with very nice people who might try to break and enter to find "dirt" on me or harrass the older kids when they arrive from school.
Of course, in his Nism, he set the appointment right during a time when I will have to find sitters for the kids and someone who can be at the house to protect them while I am gone and they are getting home from schools since I do have a protective order against him. I just don't like it, but I struggle since he will try to accuse me of not trying to solve the problems. I want to tell him some things, but you never know what kind of counselor you will get and am very very wary.
Any ideas? My appointment is in about two hours.
Thanks.
Sunny
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Sunny,
How dare he 'set' an appointment so quickly, without discussing whether or not you can arrange to meet up then, whether you even want to go...! What was his doctor thinking of, to allow counselling to be arranged without consulting both of you! Aarrgghh!! Oh, it all makes me so angry!
To be honest, I wouldn't go. He is railroading you into going to a counsellor of HIS choosing. As you say, when you suggested a counsellor of YOUR choosing, he ignored it.
Could you ring the counsellor he wants you to meet, during the appointment time period, just to say that you aren't going to turn up, just so that you can put your point of view directly to him (without your H being able to hear what you're saying)?
Whatever you do, whether you turn up or not, he will always blame you for 'not trying to sort out the problems', IMO. If it isn't this showdown, it'll be another one, later.
Sorry this is such a mess, and so little time to get it sorted, too.
Janet
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Dear Sunny,
I don't trust him,at all.I would have a contingency plan for leaving ( ready at all times). I hate to say this(ICKK) but O.J. Smpson went back with Nicole many times.( and he was really nice ,too)
I think you said that he was a sociopath. If so, you have to be very,very very careful Sunny.
N's are bad--but sociopaths make N's look wonderful. Be careful, Sunny Love Ami
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Sunny,
This is the guy you had to leave your home for, take your kids to a shelter because of the danger you and the kids were in? And you are wondering if you should go to see a counsellor with him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Take care of you and the kids,
axa
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Sunny,
Don't do it.
If he was serious about "getting help" for you, he wouldnt have scheduled an appt for you with so little notice. I also am worried about him getting you out of the house while the kids are home. Who can you find that will protect your kids in your absence the way that you would?
If you do anything--tell him that you agree with the need for a counselor and that you will find one on your own and get the "help" you need. And you will invite him to participate when you and the counselor feel it is advisable. This is a marathon, not a sprint. What's the rush????
Anyway, I hope you will resist this ploy. You don't have to prove anything to anyone. If the court wants to see you get counseling or evaluation, TRUST ME, they'll tell you.
Please, please be careful.
Love
CB
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Hello (((( Sunny ))))
Janet has superbly expressed my initial thoughts regarding the 'rush' to get to the counsellors - today! right now!
My feeling and concern for you is that most likely is an hidden agenda of some kind.
Once again, a person's choice is not being considered by a doctor.
When will they ever learn - or think!
It certainly does feel that you are being 'railroaded'
You mentioned that you have been in a 'shelter' - is there a Restraining Order in place?
My gut feeling is saying to me out loud NO don't do it.
Thinking of you Sunny.
Love,
Leah
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OK!!!
I KNEW I COULD COUNT ON YOU GUYS!!
I know it was a stupid question, but I thought maybe it would look like I was trying to NOT be a Bit** if I went -----or I had something to hide if I didn't show.
Sometimes he still does this to me. Well, he tries all the time, but I only almost fall for it once in a while. Thanks for the reality-check! I needed it.
I have already cancelled babysitter for the little one and will be here as usual to protect the kids when they return from school. Whew, that was close! Yes, I do have a restraining/protective order in place and he is still causing problems with that by pretending he does not remember clearly what the judge said.
I can't believe, (but I CAN) that he is pulling the doctor visit baloney on me. Even my daughter kinda giggled (she is 15). Alluding to a anxiety attack or something.
After he had his tirade and vengeance for a few days, he now is trying all the tears and guilt trips he can at court and emails to see the kids and I finally just told him(as nicely as possible), LOOK they are NOT emotionally ready to see YOU! As much as YOU want to see them!
They don't want their minds messed with any more either and have NOT asked to see him. Of course, his Nism had not clued in on that important part of the equation yet! And all of a sudden he figured it out and now is saying he cares about their feelings above all.........funny I had to give him a hint first! N-upid N-idiot! !!!
Thanks all! Wow you are all awesome as usual!
xox
Sunny
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Sunny,
My take is when they are being "reasonable" that is the time to be most careful. It is easy to forget what you are dealing with especially when they press your buttons about "trying to sort things out". I wasted a year of my life with Xn because he wanted to work out our relationship.........SUPPLY SUPPLY SUPPLY.
We all slip at times, don't worry be armoured.
axa
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If I'm not to late.... Please don't go! If you're concerned about how it looks, you could fax a copy of protective order to the therapist's office???? Please know that in domestic violence situations your primary goal should be safety for you and your children. Personal experience.....
peace...
jill
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Brilliant idea, Jillie...
If you're concerned about how it looks, you could fax a copy of protective order to the therapist's office????
Just a little note to that counselor, "I am sorry I won't be able to attend, but contact is not possible due to our legal situation."
Bravo to you, Sunny.
Stay safe.
That is the only job you have.
love,
Hops
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Thank God you got good advice, Sun.
Remain professional and elusive. You shouldn't even have contact via e mail, IMO.
A TPO should state what the conditions are..... how many feet away, etc.
You need to be there to protect the children.
You don't need to go engage your H in a battle of wits.
For no good reason.
Only to take steps backwards and waste money.
You're done.....?
Your'e done. ::nod::
That's it, now stick to the plan.
BTW.... what's the plan: )?
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yup---DONE! For some reason I wish to prove I am not crazy as he has been alleging.
AND I really want for him to see his selfish rotten behavior so he will not torment the kids when he sees them, eventually. I know it is almost impossible but I can't help but feel I need to try for their sake, but realize that might be dreaming big time!
Sunny
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Dear Sunny
It is too bad that all our wanting can not change a sociopaths or an N's behavior.(Sigh.) We all have tried so hard for so long.Your situation sounds like it could be dangerous if you don;t face the truth, though.
I think that you are not 'allowed' the luxury '"of fantasy with your type of guy.I am really sorry,Sunny. love Ami
((((((((((((((((((((Sunny)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))00
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Dear DivineSunshine,
I'm so glad you didn't go! It really did sound like a setup and a way to get it on tehr ecord that you're `so crazy you needed to see a psychologist'. My ex-N did the same kind of thing. He called it `couple's councilling' and arranged it all, but then he didn't show up! For years afterwards he told family and friends that I had so many issues that i needed therapy and not to believe anything I said. The sad thing is, people believed him and shunned me when we broke up.
I think this sort of thing is more dangerous in your situation, because of the legal ramifications and potential future custody battles. Somehow he'd try use your visit to see a psychologist against you in the courts.
I'd say only go to counseling for you (if you want to) and keep it private.
X Bella
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Whew I am just reading this now and glad you didn't go. Good for you!
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Sunny-
Please don't say that anything you ask or write is stupid- this is one place where you are not going to be judged , as we have all been in similar spots ourselves, and had to find our way with the help of loving friends.
Please get a counselor of your own in order to counteract any N plans- your counselor's testimony may prove crucial in the furture, especially if the N has one to bolster his side in some sort of custody or divorce proceeding. I would imagine that the shelter has a referral to a free counselor , and they may well have their own sessions, focusing on domestic abuse.
You may not want NH to ever pick a doctor for you. When people litigate, one or both of the parties are often compelled to go to a doctor chosen by the other side, who prepares a report that backs up the paying party's argument (not disabled, pre-existing condition, etc) Nobody goes willingly though, and they get their own medical opinion to counteract any damage from the bought and sold "doctor". Trust your feelings, Sunny- it could be an ambush!
Your own counselor could provide a safe place and method to tell NH what you want to convey, or may advise you in a different way. You need your own advocate with this dangerous man. PLEASE keep your safety and your children's welfare at the utmost priority level- they need you to protect them.
Love and Concern,
Changing
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Yes, I do have a restraining/protective order in place and he is still causing problems with that by pretending he does not remember clearly what the judge said.
Hi (((( Sunny ))))
I asked the question because my gut feeling was that he was railroading you for a purpose! As I mentioned, that he had an 'Hidden Agenda'
Hidden Agenda being ... that he was working at dissolving the need for the Restraining/Protective order ...... by getting you to go along with him to counselling!
Contact renewed with a third party present!
He seems to know what he is doing.
This is an all too common devious tactic in domestic violence situations.
Keep on guard - fully armoured and equipped, for your protection and that of your precious children.
Please do forward a photocopy or fax through your Restraining/Protective Order to the Doctor.
Then its crystal clear to the Doctor what the true situation is all about ....... and it should be retained on file.
You could insist that a copy is retained on both files ....... on HIS file ... and of course your file (for your personal safety and wellbeing).
Take care ((( Sunny ))) looking after yourself and your precious children.
Thinking of you.
Love & Hugs,
Leah
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Sun.... for God's sake don't go against the restraining order yourself.
My h and his attorney were constantly suggesting that I do just that.
Crazy, esp when my own attorney seconded or thirded the suggestion!
Do exactly as you're supposed to.
The thing that will protect the children is your asking for a psych evaluation for your husband..... not yourself though the court may require you both take one, just bc they work that way.... easier than thinking.
Being a victim of DV isn't a mental condition. Being an abuser IS.
Don't get me started.
Anyway...... talk to the children and begin preparing them for eventual visitation..... whatever that may look like.... what you think it will look like and how they're to handle it. Do they have set times to phone you and will there be code words that signal distress or danger? What will be acceptable... ie spanking, etc. What do they do if he won't allow them to phone for help and he's being agressive or abusive.
Visits should be safe for you and them.
If you believe your H will harm them.... you need to ask for the evaluation and supervised visitation that allows you to remain safe too. I think the evaluation is the MMPI? Something like that and it's expensive but what choice do you have? Your children are absolutely worth it, IMO.
NO MEETING WITH HIM OR GOING TO COUNSELING! NO TALKING OR E MAILING!
::sigh:: If you can help it.
So what...... he doesn't see his behavior. It'll become apparent enough as he sees it explained in court. It may seem important to you right now but.... please keep your eye on the balls that are reality based. Hopefully, he'll have to enter into some kind of program for anger management, parenting and mental counseling.... you aren't going to be the catalyst/reason/great shaman that makes him see the error of his way.
You're the one he's been abusing bc he really thinks you deserve it. He uses you as an excuse for his bad behavior. Someone else is going to have to point that out.... not the bad girl, he's used to punishing.
Also... I really really think he's more than off balanced. I think he's disturbed pretty deeply and you're wishing for him to see the error of his ways is a warning flag for me.
You can't. It's folly to think that way. This is seriouse. You have to remain focused on safety and let your attorney do all the talking to him and his people.
IN OTHER WORDS>>>>> YOU MUST REMAIN CONSISTENT IN YOUR WORDS AND ACTIONS OR YOU WILL BE EVEN MORE DISMISSED THAN YOU ALREADY ARE IN THE SYSTEM, which is already profound and pitiful.
DO NOT CONTRADICT YOURSELF! Your desire to see justice done and HELP him.... your children.... can be your undoing.
Do not rest, in this area.
Be vigilent.
Be consistent.
Do not sabotage yourself.... the system's already stacked against you bc you fewer resourses than your husband and you care about the children, he doesn't.
Be aware of the ways people are trying to move you off your arguments and reasons.
They will consistently be trying.... even your attorney will be trying bc MOST WOMEN EXAGERATE AND ARE VERY VERY UPSET IN DIVORCES. WE ARE ALL DISMISSED OUT OF HAND!
Did I make that clear enough, lol?
He can work his way up to unsupervised by exhibiting sane safe behavior for an extended period of time.
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Lighter, what a gift.
And hard-won.
Sunny....YES.
You have to let go of wanting to help him.
He can find help for himself.
love
Hops
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Let go of trying to help eveyrone see the truth.
Your husband will show them all, soon enough.
You take care of you and the children.
Keep your routines and explain to the children that you have it under control. You will make sure things are all right.
Give them permission to love their father..... tell them they will see him again. Don't villify him. They're 50% him, they'll internalize whatever you say about him.
They are too young to understand everything, though they may know bc of what they've experienced....
you need to be the good enough parent now.
That's your job.
Not helping or exposing your husband.
Forget that.
It's out of your hands.
Off your shoulders.... feel it being lifted.
It's on his own shoulders now.
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:shock:I HEAR AND I OBEY!!! :shock:
(heehee---isn't that a quote from some movie?) I just wanted to say, I get it! But NEED the sound advice right now. So anything you say is appreciated and not taken lightly. All of you! You are so sooooo wise, I have needed the "sisterly" guidance and support!
I won't be emailing him any more. Obviously he will not behave himself and is using it to try to control me and guilt me. We agreed tenatively to that as a documented temporary form of communication in court in front of the judge. He seems to have a selective memory about what transpired in court, so my attorney (a friend of family) is ordering a transcript for him. Seems we start from square one with that crap, again.
My only words to him in that way (chosen very carefully) have been to tell him his kids are fine since he likes to email me about how much pain and anguish HE is in from "missing" them. And ask him to please tell me the garage code since he changed the locks on our home while I was in the shelter and the garage systems he changed too, and he won't tell the code or return his opener. Don't worry, I disable the door from inside EVERY time I shut it. I have not had time, or money to have help with it. I will figure it out without him though. And ask if he restored and obtained cell phones for the older children as agreed to in court. And ask about our daughters cat he is kinda holding hostage. He is holding all of it hostage and won't respond to anything but HIS agenda, so ENOUGH! I will let my attorney handle it. Thanks. Good idea.
I find out through 3rd party though, that his "mysterious" doctor visit was to obtain medication for depression.....ironic? Or a master plan. Sound familiar to anyone? Besides just trying to get sympathy and "off the hook" for stuff?
He still does not understand how FINISHED I am. He just does NOT get it, obviously. Still REALLY thinks I have lost MY mind! OH WELL!! He seems to be the only one, so that is a blessing. And the judge is a woman, and my attorney nailed his NPD right off the bat. And so far seems to be really supportive. He has practiced for 37 years and says he has seen it all. He is incredibly smart and has been very helpful and seems to know just what to do. I got really lucky there, I think. Shoulda seen my H trying to make friends with MY attorney at court though. Sickening. Pathetic.
I would not doubt his attorney is behind this current ploy to get me to come around him or agree to a counseling ambush. I let him know I would not be attending yesterday as a courtesy and his response was, "How about later this week?" Pressure, pressure, pressure!! I didn't answer. But that didn't add up since he originally told me by email that this counselor was booked for weeks, but he was able to "fit us in" in an emergency for yesterday. So now he has times open later?? HMMM...
I will continue to see the lady counselor I was seeing when I can. She helped me make plans to leave. She isn't terribly expensive and I have asked her about seeing my kids when we can swing it too. She is really good. She can verify my story at any time for legal purposes, I know.
OK---gotta get tons done here today so I will be off!
HUGS to everyone!
Sunny
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You'll feel better if you stop communicating with him.
Occassional e mails regarding the children... professsional, courteouse..... that's fine.
The thing is.... what do you discuss with him about the children?
I assume the TPO is for you and the children?
There isn't anything to discuss right now, is there?
His holding the children's pets hostage won't play very well in court, I don't care what sex the judge is.
Did you copy e mails asking him about the pets? Copy and document everything. You can also check your State's laws on recording conversations.
They sell recorders at OFFICE MAX and Radio Shacks... those stores. You have to plug into the mic with a ear plug device and put your phone up against it. About 70.00.
Remember to hold the recorder way far away from the phone, as it will set off a high pitched noise that ruins the tape. Maybe drop the recorder in your pocket so you don't forget, and hold it close to phone in the heat of the crazy conversation. If he violates the restraining order... you'll have that. Judges don't like it when their orders are ignored either.
You also need to file that report with the police to document it. Attorney's don't want you to but... that's how it's done, or so says Ami with the FBI.
Set up file folders and add more as you need so you can find everything you need, when you need it. A large accordian file will help with this too.
Remember, you're in the most danger when you leave. Riding the tiger may be dangerous.... but getting off the tiger is when you're in the most danger.
Be careful.
Take different routes when driving, if you can.
Have a plan if someone enters the house.... make sure all the children head for an exit and go over the plan so they understand. This should be done in case of fire also. Lots of kids hide in the closet and are found when it's too late. Everyone needs to know where to go to get help. Tell your neighbors about the plan and what to do if they see one of your children frantically heading their way...
It's also important that you try to get out of the house and call for help immediately. Not round up all the children first. It sounds awful but it makes sense when you think about it.
Take what you want and leave the rest.