Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: JanetLG on November 28, 2007, 11:50:39 AM
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I just need to write this down - I don't know if I'm asking for anything other than to be heard, really.
I haven't had any contact directly from my Nmum, in any form, for about ten years, and then it was 'sob story' letters, about how awful I was, and how I needed to learn how to 'fit into' the family better.
More recently, she's been getting her latest 'boyfriend' or my Nsister to do her dirty work, so I never expected to hear directly from her (we never do, though, do we?).
Then, this afternoon, I downloaded my emails, and there was one where the person sending the email was 'H and A ***' (that is, her latest boyfriend and his wife's email address), and the subject line was 'Ann'.
I was reading it before I was aware what it was really about. She was just 'informing me' that a woman I used to know had died last weekend. Two lines. And she signed herself with her first name, not some pretend endearment.
What is so strange is that the woman who has died was someone who I was friends with about 15 years ago, who I met at work, and who later developed multiple sclerosis (so she had to give up work eventually). When I got married, she was a guest, and I sat her with my extended family, as I didn't know where else to put her. So, she got to know my Nsister and NMum at my wedding (bad move!). I later found out that she'd started seeing them regularly (which I realise she was completely entitled to do), but that she was passing on the details of what I told her in our conversations, to them. When I found this out, I asked her to stop doing it, as things were by then really bad between me and my female relatives, and I didn't want them to know anything about what I was doing. But she kept doing it.
Now, I know that partly it was because she was stuck at home with MS, and looked forward to people visiting, so she tended to swap everyone's news with everyone else who visited her. But I'd asked her to not tell my family what I was doing, and she didn't stop. It got so uncomfortable, that eventually I stopped going to see her, and I felt really bad about that.
She kept in contact with my family, and then I moved away.
But that was nearly ten years ago.
To be told now that she has died, although sad, doesn't mean that much to me, and I'm surprised by my reaction today. Not only am I not very upset, I'm not scared witless by the contact from my NMum. I thought, fleetingly, 'Whatever I do now will be wrong, as far as she's concerned - either I'm wicked for not emailing back immediately to 'share' condolences, or I'd email back and say 'that's sad', and be accused of not meaning it, and that I'm wicked for ever breaking off contact with Anne in the first place.
One of the things that DID make me annoyed today was that my NMum can't even spell Anne's name right - Anne was always adamant that her name be spelt with the 'e' on the end, and my NMum didn't bother to get that bit right.
Anne was 51.
Janet
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Oh, ((((( Janet )))))
You must have that 'sinking' feeling after seeing that email from your Nmother -- quite a shock.
What strikes me is the thoughtless action of invalidating Anne's name, her identity as a person.
How are you feeling now?
Love to you,
Leah
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Dear Janet,
Just a thought, that you need not respond to Nmother's e-mail
Instead, if you so wish, what you could do is send condolences via a 'sympathy' card directly to Anne's family, either directly, or via the official service director.
Thinking of you.
Love, Leah
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Hmmmm....
I think most people would like to think that the reason your Nmom contacted you was to sincerely let you know of the passing of someone you most know. That could be why your mom contacted you.
It could just be me but I'm a little more cynical. The fact that she contacted you after not having any contact with you for 10 years would indicate that what prompted her to communicate was very important. If, indeed, she had maintained some kind of contact with Ann, then no doubt the communication of this news had to do with HER, not you. Perhaps she was looking for some sympathy or empathy for HER at losing this friend. Perhaps she was consciously or unconsciously trying to make you feel bad or guilty for cutting off contact with this woman years ago when she failed to respect your very legitimate wishes not to pass on information you told her about your family. Or, perhaps it was just an easy and legitimate way for her to initiate some contact with you.
I don't think you should be concerned at all that you really didn't feel anything when you heard of the news. After all, you hadn't had a relationship with this woman in many years. Moreover, in my humble opinion, illness or not, she doesn't strike me as much of a good friend if she couldn't respect your repeated requests not to share information with your mom about what you told her in confidence. That's just not a good thing. So, there wasn't much of a relationship to mourn. Of course, you'd feel bad that someone died young and from such a terrible illness. But it makes sense that the news would not have a great impact on you.
I suppose it's up to you now to decide if you want to respond. If you truly want to maintain no contact with her, I don't think there would be any reason to respond to the short e-mail she sent. If you did, it might be a sign to her that you would be open to more communication. Again, that would be your choice.
What struck me when you described your situation was that once again it was about her, the Nmom. I'm sure the passing of this woman was much more significant to her than it was to you, having had no contact with her for many years. To break the no contact with you just to tell you of the passing of this woman whom you haven't spoken to in 15 years just seems to be reflective of your mom's own needs, not your own.
Just my two cents.
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Leah,
Thanks for that.
Yes, I probably will send a card directly to her husband, as I knew him quite well, too. I used to go sailing with them at one time (when Anne was healthier and more mobile, before her MS was too bad).
I don't think I considered for more than a couple of seconds that I should answer my NMum's email - but I did wonder how long she'll wait for an answer...
I'm feeling surprisingly calm, which is so different to how I used to be when she made contact. But I've done such a lot of work since then (and this forum REALLY helps!)
Thanks so much for your concern
Janet
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Likewise, I have various discerning thoughts regarding subliminal ulterior motive(s) in view of my own Nmother's tactical behaviours.
One does not like to consider, but there they lie, in wonder? ment.
Love, Leah
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I'm feeling surprisingly calm, which is so different to how I used to be when she made contact. But I've done such a lot of work since then (and this forum REALLY helps!)
((( Janet )))
That feeling of calm must be such a comfort, and a strength to you, and what an encouragement! For who you are now!
Testimony that speaks volumes!
Sincerely glad to know of your calmness.
Love, Leah
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Sunblue,
Yes, I agree with you that the cynical side of me questions her motives in contacting me now. Other people in the extended family, even, have died since I started NC with my NMum (like one of my mum's sisters, for instance), but she felt no 'need' to tell me about that - I heard about that, after the funeral, from my dad (who has been divorced from my Nmum for 12 years now). So, yes, her 'need' to tell me about Anne's death has more than a little of the guilt-inducing twist of a knife to it than the casual observer might think!
I can see that both my NMum and NSister could have 'used ' Anne as a sounding board for their fantasies about how awful I was, for years - after all, she would have been a 'captive audience' for them, when they visited, and would have been 'better' than someone who didn't know me at all, if they wanted to slag me off, because, after all, hadn't I deserted Anne as well as 'hurt' my close family? So, out-and-out evil, to be sure!!! Obviously, I would never have got the chance to put my side to Anne once I stopped seeing her, so I've no idea what they told her, but I can guess.
What I feel about the news is a kind of generalised feeling of sadness at someone dying so young. Same as I would if I read of it in a newspaper, I think, about someone I didn't know - it's that kind of level. It certainly isn't the prostrating kind of grief that I have felt in the past when people I have really loved have died.
There's no way I would break my NC with either my NMum or NSister to discuss this with them. I'm finished with them, forever.
Janet
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Leah,
I think the only kind of motives Nmothers have are ulterior ones!
Perhaps my calmness might be helpful for others to know about, who are just starting NC? It does get better with time (quite a long time!), but it definitely fades with time, to the importance it deserves.
Janet
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Dear Janet,
You are an inspiration and always have been. Love Ami
(((((((((((((((Janet))))))))))))))
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Ami,
I do my best... :oops:
Janet
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How do you figure out HOW to use those "little faces";;;;; dumbfounded expression::::: Ami
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Janet My Dear-
Sorry about the shock and sad news. I am so proud of you though- you retain your integrity,dignity, and kind, right thinking in every situation.
Love and Peace,
Changing
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Ami,
When you're composing a reply, there's a line of little emoticons (the 'little faces') in a line above the box where you type. If you want one of them, you put the cursor where you want it to appear in your text, and then click once on the face you want. It will then be written in code format into the text of your reply. If you want to choose from a bigger range than just the basic ones, then click on the word [more] at the end of the line, and you get a pop-up box that shows others to choose from. When you click on one of them, the code is written into your message, and you can then close the window
Simple when you know!! :D :) :( :o :shock: :? 8) :lol: :x :P :oops: :cry: :evil: :twisted: :roll: :wink: :!: :?: :idea: :arrow: :| :mrgreen:.
I'll send you my invoice later...
Janet
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Changing,
Thank you so much - even when you're in the middle of your own problems, you've got the time to think about others. You're so sweet!!
I spent quite a while last night, thinking about Anne and the good times I had with her before she met my family and things went wrong. She was a good friend to me when I was splitting up from my Nboyfriend, as she'd been in an abusive relationship when she was younger, so she understood. It's just a pity she got 'contaminated' by the N members of my FOO, really.
Janet
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Leah,
I think the only kind of motives Nmothers have are ulterior ones!
Perhaps my calmness might be helpful for others to know about, who are just starting NC? It does get better with time (quite a long time!), but it definitely fades with time, to the importance it deserves.
Janet
Hi Janet,
Thought about NC last night, with regard to how I feel now, after a period of 2 years now, No Contact, with feelings of peace and calm, thoughts being random, if at all.
Yes, truly, it does fade, it really does.
Sadly, now, she is just a name in my life story book, someone who can't hurt me anymore.
Love, Leah
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Thanks for the "lesson", Janet. I am so happy for all your progress on the board. Thank you for all that you give to everyone. Love Ami
((((((((((((((((((Janet))))))))))))))))
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Janet I love that you shared this and it's wonderful to see an ACON at a place where you see the situation and the character of your mom with clarity and calm detachment. Sometimes I lie awake struggling against the knowledge that my dad smears me to family and friends - it feels excruciating sometimes, still - though I am more detached than before. It's encouraging to hear your experience.
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Thanks Iphi - I'm very surprised myself at my reaction, to be honest. Thinking about it, I feel that, really, I grieved more over the end of my relationship with Anne about ten years ago, soon after I stopped visiting her at her house. I remember sitting at home, feeling 'as if' she'd died, because I wasn't able to have contact with her any more. (This was about two years after going NC with my NMum and NSister - so I was much more confused about the motives for their behaviour, then). So, I think that I had 'got over' the lost relationship with her, pretty much, anyway.
But it's the contact from my NMum that I have always thought would panic me, and it just didn't. I have never even imagined that SHE would email me, because I know from my dad that she hasn't got a computer in her house (so it must have been sent from the 'boyfriend's' house). So, my guard was down, and I could have been even more shocked if I'd allowed myself to be.
I almost didn't post this topic, because it seems to be a 'non-topic' compared with other people's problems, but apart from the sadness I do feel, I think we sometimes don't actually talk about the progress we're making, just the crises.
I know I'm not completely where I want to be, though - I still have nightmares about my NMum, where I'm trying to reach her face to scratch at her, to stop her slagging me off, and when I touch her, her flesh falls off in chunks, as if she'd dead (any takers on what THAT means?!), but I know the feeling of pain at wondering what the rumour-mongering is doing to people who get told such lies by the N's. In the end, I suppose I just have to get on with my life and not let thoughts of possible conversations (between people I don't talk to) allow me to waste my life. Easier said than done, I know.
Janet
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I suppose I just have to get on with my life and not let thoughts of possible conversations (between people I don't talk to) allow me to waste my life. Easier said than done, I know.
That's the place where once I had arrived, there is no going back. Previously, it would torment me, the thoughts of my FOO continuing to lie and slander me, but, now, I choose to let it be.
There really is no other way - to live a life that's meaningful and purposeful.
Which in effect is a kind of quiet gentle form of avenging back what was done unto oneself by N FOO's --- because they expect us to remain entrapped in the web of their formation.
Simply choosing to get on with one's life, and enjoy it with peace and calm --- something that they will never know, unless, they choose to change.
Breaking free and staying free is truly wonderful!
Love, Leah
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OK, here's an update...
I've just had a phone call from my Dad (who's been divorced from my NMum for 12 years, by the way). It went like this:
Dad: I've got some bad news fro you. You know Anne, from the library, er...
Me: It's OK, I already know about her death I got an email. I already know.
Dad: Oh, good. I thought I'd ring and let you know.
Me: No, it's OK, I already know about it.
Dad: Well, anyway, I've got something to read out to you that [Nsister} told me to read - don't know why she couldn't have rung you herself...
Me: Because I never want to speak to her again, that's why.
Dad: Oh well, fair enough. Anyway, what it says is - 'Anne went into hospital last Saturday with pneumonia, [Nsister] went with her, three hours later Anne died. [Nsister] says the funeral is next Tuesday at 'Blah', no flowers wanted, donations to any charity for multiple sclerosis or dog charity. Funeral directors are 'Blah'. Sympathy cards to be sent to 'Blah'. Did you get all that down?
Me: Yes, I've got that.
Dad: Did you write it down?
Me: It's OK, I've got it.
Dad: And what's your response, for me to tell [Nsister]
Me: Response?
Dad: She wants to know what you're going to do.
Me: Does she?
Dad:Yes. What's your response.
Me: Well, I've heard you. So, how are you?
Dad: What?
Me: I said, how are you? What have you been doing?
*****
At this point, I actually managed to change the subject! When I put the phone down, I was actually laughing at the nerve the N's have got!
My husband can't believe the change in me. To be honest, neither can I.
Janet
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Bravo & Well Done ((( Janet )))
With love and a hug
Leah
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Janet
You didn't KNOW how good you were until you were tested. WAY to go ! Love Ami
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Janet - I am so happy for you. Way to go! 8)
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Janet,
You are a BIG FISH (illustration please, Izzy?)
You spat out the hook!
Sooooooooooo impressed,
xo
Hops
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This one is getting away, after the photo
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Janet-
You have such panache, class and grace! You wrote that you almost didn't post this thread, and it would have been a shame if you hadn't. You deserve a place to freely speak about whatever is going on, and it is always a pleasure to read your posts. Also, I learn a great deal from your successful methods of dealing with Ns and their minions, and this post was no exception. You were caring with your father, and yet did not take the N bait. Brava Big Fish!!! I also like your father's acceptance of your explanation without a major guilt trip (he seems sweet!). But what I like the best is that you were laughing after the call! Well done!!! With your kind permission, I'm going to keep this method of handling N control attempts in my mental Rolladex for future reference in case of N encounters!
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Thank you, sweet Izzzzz! :)
love you,
Hops
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Thank you, people!
Erm....I hope I'm not supposed to LOOK like that big fish, Izzy??? :shock:
Changing - My Dad doesn't understand why I don't speak to my NMum and Nsister (even though he has been told in the past, and was there during countless rows with them) - but I don't like going into the details with him, because the main thing I hated my NMum doing was getting me to lie to my dad when I was a teenager about where she was going while she was having affairs. So, it would be less than tactful to go over it all again now with him - it would only hurt him. But, yes, he is accepting of what I do. If you want to try the same tactics with any N-ish conversations you have to have (through intermediaries) it certainly seems to work.
Janet