Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Ami on December 09, 2007, 08:58:23 AM
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Finally, after all this "mess"---practically destroying myself over having an NPD M,I see that I HAVE to love myself --FIRST. It is simply the natural order of things like parents SHOULD take care of kids and not vice--versa.
There ARE natural orders of things.They just get awfully screwed up with an NPD M.
You go in to 'Alice's Wonderland" and you are damned lucky if you EVER get out.
Dr G gave me a way to get out.I can never repay him if I had a hundred lifetimes.
So, maybe I AM OK after all. It has just been a HORRIBLE ride. I almost didn't make it. Divine intervention stepped in many times---many ,many times.
I have had so many supernatural experiences that they are commonplace to me, now. I should NOT worry.I should be at peace.Maybe,it is around the corner. I hope so.
Thanks for listening. Ami
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Hi Ami,
Just this morning I was thinking the same thing! Slowly and slowly I get there with every deeper layer that is getting pulled back and every tear that sheds.
Tonight I was reflecting the things in my life in which I have to be grateful for...I was astonished at how much there is!
A friend of mine, a long time ago, told me that making gratitude lists is a shortcut to loving ourselves. It seems odd but when I ponder all that I have in life and all that God does for me I get a flooding sense warmth and calm which helps me ground out.
There is one thing that I always say to myself and that is God did not bring me this far to leave me hanging :D
Love,
Lise
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I should NOT worry.I should be at peace.Maybe,it is around the corner. I hope so.
Sometimes I am astonished at how on the same page we are :)
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Dear Lise,
TALK about" astonished" about being on the same page.
I feel a "true" gratitude inside .I KNOW that God kept me safe and kept me whole so I could come to Him. Now, I need to be His child in a way that reflects on Him.He does not WANT us to hate ourselves. He IS love so hatred has no part in Him
I think how much it hurts me when my son's don't like themselves. It does not make me "happy" at all. God wants us to love ourselves b/c He values us so much.
I AM getting THAT in to my heart and replacing my M's messages. I see that she could not do any better. That is freeing me from her..She is under the water--drowning. She wants to pull me under so she does not have to face herself(drown)
I think that I may have come to the forgiveness level.It was simply a result of uncovering lie after lie.You cannot PUSH it(IMO)
It comes very naturally and unforced. Then,I think that you know it is real.
I think the key to healing is "moaning "posts.I know they are hard for people to listen to ,but there is s/thing about honest self expression-over and over until the root is dug out. That is my opinion.I feel much better, so for me,it works. I think that the Bible simply says ,"You shall know the truth and the truth will make you free." I think that is simply the answer to any pain. Love Ami
((((((((((((((Lise)))))))))))))))
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Loving myself --first is my next goal. I have to overcome the NM messages that said it was "forbidden". To HER,it was forbidden b/c she could not face true depth and feelings--all of the things that MAKE us human.
She could not face good or bad. I became numb so as not to offend her. Now, my next stage is to reclaim all of my' humanness" and to love myself with it ALL . Love Ami
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In many ways,I DON"T like my voice .. It is "louder" than I believe it to be. . It is certainly filled with more pain and fear .
Right now,it is a transitional voice.
It IS who I am now. It is not "fake " nice,like it used to be. When I was "fake" nice,I had more friends. Why not? I didn't make waves. .However, people are coming back,like my F .
I really would lose everyone in order to find my voice.It IS that important to me.I could live with just God and the true me.
My true voice will give me a feeling of home. I will know when I find it.I have been there before and get there sometimes , even now. It is being filled with God's love so there is no fear--of people or of your own shame.
I think that so much of my problem is NOT people ,but the dance with my OWN shame--trying to out run it.
The answer is in making friends with it, shaking it's hand, telling it that it really is just a "silly old thing" .
The answer is in embracing my own shame and seeing that it really doesn't amount to much--at all Ami
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I really would lose everyone in order to find my voice. It IS that important to me.
Exactly - me too.
I think that so much of my problem is NOT people ,but the dance with my OWN shame--trying to out run it.
This is good stuff. Being free - free from what others think, their opinions of me.
"When you ain't got nothin', you got nothin' to lose." -- Bob Dylan
I think that I will find my true voice when I lose myself.
Lise (((AMI))) I love you.
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((Ami))
Your post really touched me deep down. I also felt/feel it was safer not to use my voice, I also would loose everyone. Actually I know more now I would loose the ones that were never there anyway. kwim?
This area is very big for me, scary and exciting all at the same time. To not care enough about rocking the boat to caring so much more about me, my value, my little voice.
much love, seasons
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Thank you Lise and Seasons,
I think that I am getting to a DEEP layer.Whatever my outside circumstances my true "foe" is shame.. Today, I had a rejection from s/one. Rejection is just part of life. We all have been on both sides of it and will continue to be. It just happens.
Actually,it was very freeing for me, surprisingly. I read an article that IF you are afraid of s/thing, you should put yourself in the path of it repeatedly until you are not afraid anymore.
At first,I felt horrible. Then,I thought, this is just part of life.I have been hiding from life for too long. I was afraid of "ghosts'. Rejection only hurts to the degree that I shame myself. IF I see it as simply "people moving on". I will be fine .I AM fine, actually.
I really and truly think that I should get in line for more rejection(LOL) b/c it is a big bogeyman.It really is. The ONLY time that it destroys you is if YOU shame yourself with it.(as I said)
If you just say,"Hey,people move on",then,you are OK.
What is happening to me is that I am learning junior high lessons at an older age. In junior high, you make up and break up. You screw up and learn. You CAN be immature b/c you are at the "right" age. I am at too old of an age to be 'immature'. HOWEVER, I am immature.(emotionally) It iS that simple. I AM learning junior high lessons ,now. It is true.
Maybe,I was too immature for my friend. I can live with that simply b/c I must find my voice--no matter who I lose or gain.I simply cannot go back to 'Miss Nice".
I am so tired from this that I wonder IF I am getting better or worse. I am sure that you know THAT feeling. You are simply exhausted from all these emotions.
Inside me, I have a little feeling that I actually AM getting better. I hope so. Lord,I hope so Ami
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Inside me, I have a little feeling that I actually AM getting better. I hope so. Lord,I hope so Ami
Perhaps that little feeling inside is your inner girl who is loving you back because she is saying thanks for "hearing me" "thanks for trying to not squish me" -- "thanks for giving me a chance."
Inner child Ami feels hope!
I know you ARE getting better, I can see and hear it!
Love,
Lise
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Lise(or anyone)
Do you know that feeling of NOT knowing IF you are losing it OR coming together? You are simply exhausted and wrung out.Maybe ,it is OLD walls crumbling ,but you really wonder IF you are "on the edge" of "losing it". Ami
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Lise(or anyone)
Do you know that feeling of NOT knowing IF you are losing it OR coming together? You are simply exhausted and wrung out.Maybe ,it is OLD walls crumbling ,but you really wonder IF you are "on the edge" of "losing it". Ami
Last night I felt that way - I think it is because we are giving up so much in persuit of change and growth; transformation will cause one to feel as though they ARE losing it because in essence you ARE losing it -- meaning you are giving up ideas that have comforted you and kept you safe, now you are pushing the edge which causes you to perhaps feel as though you are going over it...Does that make sense?
Love you,
Lise
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Lise
You ARE an "angel"-- and always will be. It does make sense that the old structures are breaking down SO I AM losing the "old'. I am simply so tired that I feel like I have the flu.
I think that I am getting to the deepest level(one of them) which is shame.It is the level that "'I am bad".
The rejection today was actually JUST what I needed. I needed to see my worst fear(rejection) and see that it really didn't hurt ALL that much. It was a "lie" that it would kill me. It didn't kill me. It ,actually, freed me.Now, I have got to go look for some more(LOL)
I guess whenever you put yourself "out there" , you will be rejected b/c people won't like you and you won't like people.It is just life WHEN you are"real"
IF you are "fake, then people will like you more b/c you are not a threat in most ways.
THIS is the hardest layer I have ever tried to heal. However,it is the deepest, too,I think. Love Ami
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Lise
You ARE an "angel"-- and always will be. It does make sense that the old structures are breaking down SO I AM losing the "old'. I am simply so tired that I feel like I have the flu.
I think that I am getting to the deepest level(one of them) which is shame.It is the level that "'I am bad".
The rejection today was actually JUST what I needed. I needed to see my worst fear(rejection) and see that it really didn't hurt ALL that much. It was a "lie" that it would kill me. It didn't kill me. It ,actually, freed me.Now, I have got to go look for some more(LOL)
I guess whenever you put yourself "out there" , you will be rejected b/c people won't like you and you won't like people.It is just life WHEN you are"real"
IF you are "fake, then people will like you more b/c you are not a threat in most ways.
THIS is the hardest layer I have ever tried to heal. However,it is the deepest, too,I think. Love Ami
Wow--- you are doing some really amazing work! That stuff, as painful as it is, is life changing and soul changing.
Rejection was and proably still is my greatest fear, I was abandoned as a baby and as a 3 year old until I was 5. That wound cost me $25k in Freudian psychotherapy - if I had only found this message board earlier! LOL - I could have saved some money! :roll:
That layer IS going to be the most painful - that feeling that we are bad, that one burns, the shame, doesn't it?
If you get a chance lay down and take a cat nap, turn all your thoughts and feelings over to God and let him heal as you sleep.
Peace,
Lise
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Dear Lise,
I am simply going to say" that I have the 'flu" b/c I feel exactly like I do. However, down deep, I have this little ,little feeling that maybe I CAN love myself.It is a little tiny light that says", Maybe ,you really can let it (N messages) go and love yourself."
I am seeing more humor in myself and others. I am a crazy nut .
I hate this exhaustion.It has been a few weeks that I have felt wrung out. I used to have great energy.
When I went to a party on Saturday night, my friend took me home b/.c I was too tired to stay. I was sitting on a chair in the kitchen and when my H would introduce me to people ,I wouldn't EVEN get up. I shook their hand from the chair(LOL) It was one of those rolling chairs ,so I was rolling around(LOL).People were looking at me a little strangely ,but I just ignored it(LOL)
Oh Lord, WHEN I get through this layer,I am going to celebrate. How "bout it, Lise? Ami
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I am a crazy nut .
What kind of nut are you? Macadamia, peanut, Brazilian nut, cashew? Because I know that you are NOT a crazy one! LOL :lol:
Yes, I'll be there to celebrate! I've got miles saved up so I'll fly anywhere! Let's meet in the Bahamas!
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Dear Lise,
I will have to give thought to WHAT kind of nut I am(LOL)However, I wanted to tell you that I have a little place inisde me that is starting to feel centered. I can eat meals that I could not before(stomach,mother issues).
This exhaustion does get scary,but you really, really helped when you told me that it IS a form of losing your mind---your 'old " mind.
This little space in me that feels centered is beautiful .It is like sunlight or fresh air. It is so precious to me b/c I have suffered for so long not being at home in my body.
It really is THE most precious thing ,next to God
Thanks for your presence,Lise. I really, really should never worry in life b/c God is so good to me. He knows that I am a "lost sheep" and he sends me unexpected joys,like you. Love to you Ami
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Dear Lise,
I will have to give thought to WHAT kind of nut I am(LOL)However, I wanted to tell you that I have a little place inisde me that is starting to feel centered. I can eat meals that I could not before(stomach,mother issues).
This exhaustion does get scary,but you really, really helped when you told me that it IS a form of losing your mind---your 'old " mind.
This little space in me that feels centered is beautiful .It is like sunlight or fresh air. It is so precious to me b/c I have suffered for so long not being at home in my body.
It really is THE most precious thing ,next to God
Thanks for your presence,Lise. I really, really should never worry in life b/c God is so good to me. He knows that I am a "lost sheep" and he sends me unexpected joys,like you. Love to you Ami
You are just as much an Angel to me as I am to you Ami. Little do you know the ways that you support me and comfort me in my dark and trying times.
And, if anyone is reading this and you ever need support, just ask Ami, she will be a true friend with a strong shoulder to cry on.
Lise ((AMI))
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Dear Lise,
God provides. It is SO hard to believe s/times--isn't it?I want to share an update with you. Last night, you helped me so much. I know that you know the intensity of feelings you can have when you are "craving" some FOO love relationship. It is beyond 'intense".
After talking to you, I quieted down and slept all night.
I am excited to tell you that today,I feel more peaceful. Also, I feel less afraid of things that I fear like the dentist.. I realized that ALL my "phobias" were really a looking for love. It is hard to explain,but one shrink told me that a phobia is BOTH a wish and a fear. I stopped going to him then b/c I thought HOW could it be a "wish". I SEE it now. I have had a phobia of throwing up(as well as MANY others). Anyway, when he told me about the wish thing I thought HOW could it be a "wish".
NOW,I know. My body wanted to be "taken care of". That phobia was a cry for s/one to help me. I see now that my other phobia ( the dentist,, doctor etc) is the SAME thing. I crave touch, tenderness, warmth and care. I am using these phobias as a cry to be taken care of. Isn't that BIG?
I saw all of this b/c my "friend" triggered these intense feelings in me. After a while ,I could see that it must be FOO stuff. It was too "over the top" .
So, I feel less afraid now. It WAS worth it. It is always worth it to face things. It does hurt terribly. However,IF you don't face them, they will come out 'sideways"-addictions, crazy life styles, depression, phobias etc.
Thanks for being there,Lise Love Ami
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Just when I thought that I had a break in these exhausting emotions,another wave hits me . I think that it is a cleansing ,though.
After this last one, I reclaimed s/thing that I lost in my teens. Right before I went in to a shell,I was formulating the idea of "power". I remember seeing two movies that shaped my perception. They pushed me in to a healthy way of looking at power. .
One was based on a book by Evan Hunter--Last Summer.
That movie hit me in a big way. After that, I vowed to retain my own power but I couldn't.. I lost that connection to myself-.
Yesterday, I realized that I need to reclaim it.
The pain IS there.It is better to have it triggered than to just push it down.
It feels like layers and layers of pain.I know that you understand.It feels bottomless.I am thinking that if you stay with it,it will give you the parts of yourself that you pushed away. I hope so.what do you think?
Ami
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I guess when you have an N mother ---you simply have to keep pushing away pain--finding nooks and crannies in which to hide it. Then,at some point---you are lost to yourself. .
If you run away from life, that is a type of pain.If you face life, you have to learn lessons that you should have learned in your teens. THAT is painful. You get rejected. You learn what you should have been learning and have mastered by now.
I AM clicking back in to place. I saw another thing ,today. I saw that my Aunt functions in an "organized " way. . She operates using all the different levels. For example, she could use values or intellect . Another time , she could use intuition. She sees what her emotions are telling her and takes ALL of it as guidance and THEN formulates what she will do. It sounds so simple.
When you have an N M, everything that should be simple is not.
My Aunt can take from all the levels b/c shame is not throwing a monkey wrench to derail her. She feels like she is O.K.
Shame is the key--healing shame. No outside thing can heal it.It would be so easy if you could drink it away, drug it away, buy it away or get enough approval to make it go away
. That is the key,I think, healing shame.
I bet that when you face it,it will be nothing but a vapor. Ami
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So, I feel less afraid now. It WAS worth it. It is always worth it to face things. It does hurt terribly. However,IF you don't face them, they will come out 'sideways"-addictions, crazy life styles, depression, phobias etc.
Thanks for being there,Lise Love Ami
Last night I felt sick with the flu/sorethroat. I took some theraflu and fell into bed drifting in and out of sleep. Suddenly, I awoke in terror -- I knew that this was old pain.
One of the things that triggered me into spending 5 years working with Dr. Freud was the pain of a love affair that ended in rejection. This was over ten years ago. I recall waking up one morning shortly after "the dear Lise Call" in intense emotional pain. My body was litterally burning so much I had to take a cold shower to cool off from the intense layer of shame that was surfacing. I could not get out of bed for a week. At the end of that week I knew that I needed help.
That is when I found Dr. Freud. I'm glad that I had common sense to tell me that my emotions were out of proportion to the present experience. I loved this guy but something told me that it was really more a wish for fulfillment than love fullfilled that was being grieved out of me. I knew this even before I entered intensive therapy -- I was ahead of the game 8). I used to beat myself up just for wanting and for moving on so slowly from this guy...but now I realize that I was healthy in the sense that I did not act on these strong emotions and try to manipulate him back or loose my dignity in anyway. My intuition usually proves me right.
Those 5 years of Dr. Freud were intense to say the least. The first two were just working through layers of defenses; the next year was reliving the emotional memories of what exactly it was like to be age 3 and 4 and without parents, who were my entire world.
Dr. Freud and I did dream analysis and wish probing -- in other words I persued my unconscious so that I could be more conscious.
It was at that intense emotional pain time that I read Necessary Losses -- What We Have To Give Up In Order To Grow - by Judith Voirst. I started doing the work -- just like you are, peeling back the layers and looking deeply at what happened that I did not want to happen and what never happend. I cried more tears and deep sobs, I pounded my pillow and sometime I just would crouch in a little ball in my bathroom, hugging myself in agony.
Through it all I never took medication, drank, smoked or overate. I used to swim laps and jog to get my endorphins up. I would nurture myself with cozy pajamas and warm cups of tea. It was a two year existence of this kind of pain.
I'll never forget the weeks when the pain started to subside and I told myself -- wow..."that was intense"..no wonder I was so messed up! I had so much pain in me that had never come out. It was like going into a time machine, and reliving from and emotional point of view, the grave trauma of what it is like to loose your parents when it is not time. I would say to myself no wonder you repressed this pain - it would have literally killed me if I had to experience it, back then, at age 4 -- I'm a survivor.
When you get a chance - read the thread "feelings as reality." LOL --- How about -- reality HAS feelings?
Anyway, my original point, was that last night I was in terror and it was not about now, it was about back then. The terror was overwhelming. I curled in a little ball and agonized all over again. It was the terror of letting go of more defenses, especially my anger. It was the terror of feeling the trauma of being so left alone emotionally when I was a baby. The good news is that the layer is gone now. I no longer will ever have to go through that again!! Whew...another layer down and about 2000 to go :P !!
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Just when I thought that I had a break in these exhausting emotions,another wave hits me . I think that it is a cleansing ,though.
You have no idea how many times I have said exactly that to myself. I think that I am through the thick of it and then another layer hits me again.
The healing graph for me would never be one straight line up - NO, it is more like back and forth and up and down -- all the while progressing in one direction. Go figure that one out!
Love you (((AMI)))
Lise
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Hey, can I join in here?
SURE!!! I'm glad you are here! :D
I'm sorry about feeling that pain, of sobbing and pounding your pillow. That is the kind of pain (emotional) that is buried deep and needs to be released, though. You're doing hard work. That is courageous of you to get in touch with it and allow it to come out. To recognize it and even embrace it.
Thank you Bean -- but actually, I was talking about work I did over ten years ago. But who knows -- I may get another layer and your post above is God's way of foreshadowing me :P If I get the pain - I'll reach to you for support.
Right now Ami, needs some support - will you give her a hug please.
How are you Bean?
Lise