Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Ami on December 25, 2007, 11:19:22 AM
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I am strangely calm. If I can stay centered in myself, I may be able to heal by seeing that I am different than she is. I never was like her. I had to lie to myself in order to be like her.
I am really very different in most ways--likes ,dislikes,interests, basic personality etc. So, if I can be true to my core,I should be OK and maybe even be able to separate emotionally from her. Ami
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Hey Ami,
Please let me know what happens with your mom. I'm interested to know how it all goes. You are in my prayers.
~Laura
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Put on your armour Ami. Go to that centered place and everytime you feel drawn away from it, excuse yourself and go to the bathroom and recenter. Even if you have to pretend to have a small case of diarrhea.
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I WILL have a large case of diarrhea----small case????? (lol)
Thank you GS and Laura.
God must think that I am ready to try to maintain my 'core"in her presence. I hope that "she" turns out to be a "ghost" just like the shame that she taught me is turning out to be. Thanks for caring. I really appreciate it.. Love Ami
((((((((((GS,Laura)))))))))))))))))
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Keep us posted about the visit.
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Dear GS,
IF I can retain my core(centeredness) in the face of my M,then I will know that I am indeed "different" than she is. The only time in my life when I was whole,it was based on my being able to see that she was '"different" than I was. Once I couldn't see this anymore,I lost my sanity.
Now,is an opportunity NOT to give in to her or her world view. Thanks for your supportive words, GS Love Ami
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YOU are the best. I needed that TLC, today, Besee. Thanks so very much . Love Ami
((((((((((Besee)))))))))))))
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Wow! Prayers being sent up on your behalf! You can do it AM!
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Thank you, Kelly. I can see that I have part of my core back. Any part of it is very precious to me. For me, a good life would be one where I could operate from my core(trust in my emotions ).That would be the "definition" of a good life, for me.
I am ready for the challenge. . The key is not HER,but me. The key is my finding my way back home( to my internal home) Thanks for caring , Kelly. Love Ami
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Ami,
I've only got a minute again this AM, but I couldn't believe my eyes when I read the subject line.
Yes, the key is not her but you.
Let us know how it goes.
cats paw
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Thanks Cat. I appreciate your kind words. Love Ami
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What boundaries are you setting, Ami?
For example, are you choosing:
1) to see her at all
2) if yes, where? Would you prefer not to have her in your home, but tell her to meet you at a restaurant?
3) what is your time limit for contact? "I am free until ___ o'clock"
You are a grown woman, not a child. M or not, she does not get to take over your turf, your brain, or destroy your peace.
So I'm wondering if you'll want to set some good boundaries in place and make them clear?
good luck,
Hops
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Thank you,Hops. That is a very good point on which I will do much "cogitating"(lol) Ami
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Thoughts and prayers are with you, YOU can do it. Just remember to be the bystander watching from the outside, works like a charm. Thinking of you.
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Let us know how it went. This is a test for you, IMO. I know you can do it. Just remember to "KEEP YOUR ZIPPER ON THE INSIDE."
Kate
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It is just unbelievable that you would be invaded this way, without invitation or consent...the Bagworm shows up periodically in violation of our agreements ( I am trying to get Protection Orders in place of the stipulations to prevent this in future), and it is a violation of the most egregious sort. At least you got some prior warning. Does she expect you to pick her up from the airport or to stay in your home?
If you are going to see her but are having a great deal of trouble, you might absent yourself frequently, and have friends with you who understand the situation when she comes.
When my father was suffering his final illness, I tried to be as fortified as possible when I would go to help him, and took breaks when he became too tough for me to handle. I would walk down the hall, whatever I could do to clear my mind. His wife had virtually abandoned him and I just couldn’t leave him alone to fend for himself where he was. When he passed I was sad that he had been abandoned by the Stepmonster in his infirmity, but I was comforted in that I did not reciprocate the abuse, judgment and coldness that they both heaped upon me, and had done what I could for him. I think that I would be tortured by it still if I had reciprocated unkindeness. Still, I was exhausted by the whole thing, and it took everything that I had to manage to keep my equilibrium and guard myself from their attacks.
Do what you can and no more- don't wait until your nerves become brittle and you start to snap! Do what you can to make things enjoyable for yourself- take a stroll, take a nap, eat what you enjoy, walk your doggies, go to the gym...mom can tag along. If you are doing what another person likes and what you don't, it makes it harder to cope when they complain IME.
Do your duty, both to your mother and yourself. You do not owe her a full disclosure of your life, thoughts and feelings. Find out the status of her health, etc.- you are the adult now. Do not expect her to change- it is not impossible, but highly improbable. Do not grant her access to your vulnerable spots. Be kind but do not expect kindness in return- if she indeed behaves in a loving way, that will only be a bonus.
Hopefully your Aunt will be there for you, and take the edge off...
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I'm still sitting here waiting to hear back from Ami about how it all goes.
~Laura
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I feel like I have been run over by a truck. The ONLY think that gets me through( when I want to give up -totally) is all of you who have gone through the same thing. I think of you Laura, being hit by your step father.I think of Changing , Bean,Bones, Kelly,all my dear friends who have to have the 'horror' of a 'blank parent". Many people here had it much worse than I did. I "only" had emotional abuse .
I think of Bone's N Doofus with the blank, glassy eyes stare.
Maria was here. She met my M for 5 minutes. My M seemed fine to me(great ,actually). Maria took me in to the other room and said, "Ami, I understand now, how you suffered. It is NOT your fault."
I really don't even know exactly what she saw b/c my M was acting fine(lol). Maria saw s/thing .
I can see the "not being there". I can see that I based my whole life,sense of self, values, hopes, and dreams on s/one who is "lost in space"--blank, broken BUT arrogant at the same time( a bad combo)-lol
I look at myself and I am really broken. It is the truth. I am half there.
Maria gave me a "back handed compliment". She said that if anyone met you at a party,you seem totally normal."(lol)
Well,inside I need rehabilitation. I see it more clearly than ever. It is a shock to see how she really is--the person who I tried to take my sense of self from---bleh Ami
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Ami,
if i asked you this before, let me know, but I'm wondering if your mother was diagnosed with any sort of disorder that you know of, or does she just have behavioral traits of N.
~Laura
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She was not diagnosed with anything but she fits Vaknin's book like a hand in a glove,Laura.
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Dear Ami,
I am sorry you had to go through all that! It was so rude of her to turn up unannounced. I'm glad she didn't act out though- that is such a relief! I hope you had a nice Christmas anyway!
X Bella
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Oh dear Ami
Are you going to need a couple weeks to recoup? When did she leave or is she leaving? You should find out, if you don't already know.
One thing I've found is that explaining to 3-D friends who know my parents, how "bad" they really are is futile. They see it, then deny they saw it later (now that I think about it, the same thing happens here :x). Unless the abuse happens to them, or that person is truly empathetic, it is just unimaginable to most. The bad memories quickly fade and you are left with insult on top of injury.
hang in there Ami. I know how destabilizing this feels. It feels terrible.
bean
Dear Bean,
I have a stomach ache. I have SO much anger at my M and my H for violating me( my trust , love and innocence). I really could "smash' both of them.
I am angry at myself for being so "stupid" to trust s/one above my own gut. With my M, I trusted her above my own gut. I always knew that she was a nut, but I suspended my good sense and trusted her to watch out for my well -being. Well, she used me as a way not to feel her feelings.
I thought that my H would watch out for my well-being. He used me by putting me in the same role as his mother--abused woman to a man who "provides". So, I did not trust my gut on this one ,either.
I have to forgive myself. I got derailed (lost the connection to my emotions) s/where along the way. Then,I could not find my way back to protect myself. Maybe, kids are not even equipped to "protect" themselves against a parent. By the time I married,I was too lost to know better.
I have made mistakes on the board(too many "moaning posts'). I simply had to learn how to forgive ,myself b/c I was not able to do better at the time.
I guess it is the same for giving away my heart and soul to abusive people. I couldn't do better at the time or I would have.
Ami
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Ami, while I'm not meaning to belittle your frustration about the past nor devalue your feelings, i really want to know what is going on NOW, in the present.
YOu said your NM is on her way to see you. Why? Did she arrive yet? how did THAT go? That is what I've been waiting for the past few days to hear about, if you'll let me know, pls.
~Laura
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Dear Laura,
Thank you for caring. Your love and concern reaches across cyberspace in to my heart--thank you. I wrote about last night with my M and my H on a new thread.
Last night, My M owned how she treated me. She sat there while I told her what I tell you ,on the board. She "seemed" to get it. A friend warned me to be "careful, but she did seem to own a great deal.
I will see ,today, if she tries to push me down ,again. I know that my life is about me, now. The problem, of course,is all the damage I have sustained as a D of a true NPD.
Has she really changed and owned her part ? I am not sure. Vaknin says that it can happen, as a N 's gets older and want to make peace with a child.
Actually, she did try to push me "down" under the water last night, but she didn't know that I had become a "good fighter' . She couldn't. Maybe, she "gave in" b/c she was beaten.My S(older) understands about N, too. She could not win,at that moment. Maybe, she is stilll the same and will be back for round two ,today.(lol)
My goal for her visit is simple. I want to know that I am "me"---separate from her---separate from her thinking, values,POV, way of viewing herself and the world. I want to break enmeshment with her.
I want to look at myself as "different" from her. Then,I will have taken a step toward sanity----a major one. Love Ami
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I'm not sure if it's just "me" but I'm having a problem understanding anything that really went on. Maybe Ami and others don't choose to share the specific incidents in detail and, instead, want to just share generalities, like "she pushed me under again" "he knocked me down" "he didn't know he was doing such and such" but I can't follow that or get a gist of what went on when i don't hear the situations in depth.
Maybe I'm just too nosy for my own good too. I just can't respond if I am not getting the full picture with details and incidents, sorry.
~Laura
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You crack me up Laura!!.! I will share more details later, when I get back . Ami
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one add-on to the last thing i said about not understanding some posts on here because they are too general. This is what i mean
A general post:
N came to me and insulted me and my ND didn't do a thing. She thought I'd stand there and rise up to the occasion but instead I waited for her to put a stop to it all. Next, N slapped my son and that really angered me....
vs
N came to me and called me a pig and my ND didn't do a thing. She thought I'd stand there and fight my own battles but instead I waited for her to jump in and help. Next, N slapped my son, for just standing there staring at her, and that really angered me, so I told her 'you need to leave."
I guess I'm asking if possible that there would be more "quotes" of what people said, more descriptions of the situations and also, if possible, more spacing between paragraphs.
It would really help me to comment more, if you'd like me to.
~Laura
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I get it now, Laura. I guess that I felt that specifics would be "boring",but I see what you mean,now, about getting a deeper "feel "for the situation, if you have specifics. Later, you get them ALL(don't say I didn't warn you---lol) Ami
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I am not a bit bored with specifics.
Well said Laura. Will be reading.
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Ami, everybody was praying for you. I have been following your thread. I was concerned when I did not see anymore.I have seen that you are posting in other threads as if nothing was happening. I do not understand. What happened?
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Dear Every Precious Friend Who Wrote on This Thread,
My M just left . I will write later or tomorrow. Thanks for asking. Sorry to start a thread and leave it unfinished. I am simply too worn out to write about the specifics, right now. Thanks so much for your prayers and concern. I have so many really wonderful things to tell you. In the end ,we had a lot of fun together. It was a wonderful visit,full of learning and growth. Love Ami
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Hi Ami-
I knew that you could handle things in the right way! It may not be easy, but you are capable and I am glad that your peacer and happiness is no longer at the mercy of the whims of others!
Love,
Changing
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I felt such a sense of love from the board during my M's visit. I felt strength b/c I knew that my dear friends on the board were just a moment away, at any time.
I want to tell you about the visit.
On the first night, we got in to a huge fight.I wrote on another thread that my H threw his
hat" in the ring and pummeled me,and my M joined him. I was the
bad" one. I realized that I DID have a voice.,though.Having a "voice" was new to me( and to them- lol) My voice was not the abused ,beaten down person anymore. I told my M the "truth" about my H, in front of him.. I did this all in the middle of the fight. My H looked like he had been hit with a plank(lol) Truth is powerful. I was NOT going to be the scapegoat anymore for two N's..
The next day, she did not come over,but we talked on the phone. She was crying. She admitted that she violated my boundaries(big time) when she colluded with my H in a fight ,against me. She said that she was broken hearted at how she treated me when I was a child. She could see how I gotten so broken and she would do anything at all to try to help me get back to a whole person.
The next day,she came over(Fri). We spent the day together.We had so much fun. I really had grown b/c of the board. I could laugh at my foibles. I told her,"Maybe, you are not an N b/c you can make jokes(lol)". I felt free to laugh at our craziness. She and I both did.
I was ,also , honest when she did try to "blame" and shame me. I did not take ANY of it. She backed down, every time.At the end she thanked me for helping her to grow.
I realized that I had been given a precious gift( a miracle, actually). . I know that she loves me and always did.
She told me that she would leave her practice and come down here to be with me ,if it would help. She always loved me. That was the most healing part of all.
I have to integrate all the things that happened . I think that I will have a shift in thinking when it all settles in.
I see that I was loved. This gives me a tremendous sense of peace and of value.
I have to thank the board for ANY progress that I made. All of it was from the board(Dr G's gift)----pure and simple. I never would have been able to handle my M ( and H) w/out the board experiences.
My friends on the board are as 'real" to me, as any 3D people. Maybe ,that is bad, but it is how it is.
Love heals--- cyberspace or 3D! Ami
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um, ok, is anyone else here a bit baffled, other than me? Ami, your mother, from your description here, either doesn't sound like a narcissist or maybe she has you "snowed."? Quitting her job to come LIVE near you? Dear GOD! Sorry, but RED FLAGS HERE IF she is a narcissist, that is.
Ok, I read this...again, way too general: On the first night, we got in to a huge fight.I wrote on another thread that my H threw his
hat" in the ring and pummeled me,and my M joined him. I was the
bad" one. I realized that I DID have a voice.,though.Having a "voice" was new to me( and to them- lol) My voice was not the abused ,beaten down person anymore. I told my M the "truth" about my H, in front of him.. I did this all in the middle of the fight. My H looked like he had been hit with a plank(lol) Truth is powerful. I was NOT going to be the scapegoat anymore for two N's..
"my H threw his hat" in the ring and pummeled me, and my M joined him.
HUH? Your husband added a mean comment into the convo and beat you up physically, along with your mother?
Ami, are you able to do the "I said _______________, then my husband said ________________ and my mother said _____________________?
(is this possible, or are you still leaving out details for privacy reasons? I mean, none of us know these people and I can't make heads nor tales out of what happened until you fill in the exact situation.)
Since it's over and done with, are you able to tell us in more specifics what this fight was about? I read it again, hoping for some details so I could chime in on it, but again, way too general for me to even understand.
I had this picture of your husband throwing a top hat in the middle of your living room, punching you repeatedly and your mother doing the same. What's it all mean? See what I mean? Too vague, Ami. Please? more info? and what about your M...did she suddenly become a non-narcissist?
Confused and wanting to "get it,"
~Laura
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Ami, I have the feeling, that you are decieving your self. After a life of N mother you cannot just heal, just because of chatting in the board. Board is a help, but not therapy, it is a therapeutic help, but no therapy. It does not make sense. An offensive N Mother never change. Soemthing does not make sense to me. Probably I am the only one. You might be right. But, it could be a dilution, an image that you need to project in front of your friends of the board, I do not know what. I just do not understand. That is why I have not posted lately in your thredas, because I do not understand scientifically what is going on with your life. Like going to the gym when you said that you just ate a meal for the first time, or having a profound pain and posting in other threads as if nothing was happening. Ami, I suspect, there is something going on in your brain that you sitll have not noticed. What? I have no idea. Sometimes you say very wise things, and sometimes I am overwhemled by the lack of sense in the order of events that you present. I am aware that you have suffered and that you sure have problems but I still do not understand what is happening to you. I am afraid that you have something going on that is very deep and you have no idea what is happening inside you.
I will be praying for you, but do not get offended if I do not write to you, it is just that I am afraid that I will do more damage than help, because fo lack of understanding.
But I will keep reading constantly all your threads, I promise you that. If I see seomthing that I can understand I will write you. If I do not understand I will just keep praying for you. Do not get mad at me for my lack of undestanding. I still appreciate you and pray for you.
Sometimes it is more helpful not interfering than saying something that would do more damage than help. That does not mean I do not appreciate you.
When I said twin sisters, it was a metaphore. Soul mates is a metaphore. I thought we had things in common. Please, do not think I do not appreciate you, I do, I appreciate you, i just do not understand you.
Now, I do not understand the relaitivity theory of Einstain but I do appreicate its importance, and also nobody knows how aspirine really really works, but it is sure a very good thing to the world.
My point, I do not have to understand you to appreciate you.
God bless you Ami, and hope from my heart that your feelings are a reality.
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Laura---you crack me up(lol)
Details.....
On the first night, we all(M,H, two S's and I) were in the kitchen. My M started "violating " my S's(older) boundaries by asking him ,over and over, if he had made the right choices about college b/c he was taking a non traditional route. I saw my S's distress. I said,"Mom, he does not want to be on the spot. He does not want to be questioned. It is obvious from the look on his face.", She started arguing that she could ask what she wanted. I said that she was violating boundaries, the same way that she violated MY boundaries by coming here without asking me.She was taken aback.
THEN , the big conflagration began.. I could see it coming when I saw my H--- -poised for a fight. I said to my H,"PLEASE allow me to talk to my M alone. My problems with her are with her,not you. Any issue that I have with you is not germane to my relationship with her. . PLEASE ,don't get in to this "discussion".Then I said,"I am asking you, begging you, asking for a gift etc. PLEASE do not get in to this discussion."
My H jumped in.. He tried to get my M on his side by saying that I "hated" both of them(low). He got her all riled up by saying that I was "unforgiving" to the people who loved and cared for me( them)He went on about how he tried so hard to be a good H ,but* I *would not let the past go. My M said that he was right.My M said that my H could join the "fight" if he wanted to.(after I had begged him not to) So, now they both were saying how* I* did not appreciate all the attempts at forgiveness that they had given me and all the caring and concern . I was just ungrateful and unforgiving.
I went in to the other room and I could hear them talking about me. My H was saying that he kept begging for forgiveness and I would not give it b/c I just wanted to hang on to the past. My M agreed that I would not give it to her either(bleh).
Then,I got angry. I came out of my room and I told my M that I have been abused all these years.. I need to get a new door lock every few months b/c my H breaks it in a rage if I express any emotions( anger etc). I said that he held a heavy wooden chair over my head b/c I expressed anger. My S(younger) thought that he would have to "beat " his F up.I told her that that was the "great"life that my H provided. My H looked "struck". My M looked struck, too(lol).
.Finally,my H left.Then ,my M ,S and I talked about N. My M was listening and receiving what my S and I were saying about N.
On Friday,she came over for the day. Whenever she blamed me in any way, I got in her face and would not accept it. For example, she said,"Do you think we can be friends?". I said , if she could treat me well and I did not have to keep "beating" her down, we could. She tried to blame me ,by saying that I had TOO many expectations. I said that I had the expectation for respect and if she could not give it ,then we could not be friends. So, she backed down and apologized. That was an example of many similar interactions ..
Do you understand more, Laura? Thank you so much for caring enough to ask, Laura. Love Ami
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Dear Lupita,
Vaknin says that s/times, N's can change. It is rare ,but it can happen,Usually it happens when they age and face the relationship with their children . If the N loves the child enough, they can override their own need to "lie" and they can face some truth. If thy can face the truth, they can heal( to the degree to which they face the truth)
For me, I have healed. from this visit with her. That is the most important part--not her degree of healing or lack of it,Lupita.
IF I heal and I am wrong about her--so what? I have healed and that is what counts. That is how I view it,anyway. Ami
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ok Ames, that was much more to go on now.
Seems your mother was buttin in, being opionated, and not respecting boundaries of your son, since she wouldn't QUIT bugging him about the school choice. A person can give an opinion once, but if asked to stop, they should, I think?
As far as H wanting to join the battle, are you saying he wanted to DEFEND you at first, but you told him to butt out, so then he joined the enemy forces of your M AGAINST YOU? Help me understand, pls.
It sounds like your husband can be a real pill at times, but as far as your mother, it seems she flips on and off, and I guess that's where my red flags come from. I DO believe N's can change with the help of God's power, however, I also believe that you need to exercise wisdom and not be too quick to jump on the offer from the "friendly-seeming" voice of your not-so-long-ago narcissistic mother.
Just my 10 cents :)
~Laura
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Ami-
I don't know if your mother and husband are "cured" or not or even if that was the point of your post and experience, but I think the real breakthrough was in how you reacted and held your own. You spoke the truth and would not be cowed, even when they ganged up against you and used their old tactics to shut you up. You did not react in kind, did not get into a verbal brawl, did not break down and beg for mercy, but simply held your ground in the truth... I know from experience, that can be a really tough stance to maintain- but it is the best!
It is not your job to heal your mother or anyone else- you can give assistance if you like...the thing is that you took care of you and acted in a way that you knew was right! Their bad acts that you spoke of needed to be brought out in the light of day to be seen for what they were- they were not your shameful secrets to protect any longer!
I don't know what the future holds, and who does on this planet? You spoke the forbidden truth, and now they can't put Humpty Dumpty back together again! Now, on to the next horizon, whatever that may be...you will be ready.
Love,
Changing
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Izzy
I find your comments and tone offensive and do not care to respond, with all due respect Ami
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Yes,it is especially with what I percive to be a hostile and "challenging"tone,on your part , complete with intimating that I am trying to decieve the board, Izzy.