Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Gabben on January 08, 2008, 05:05:27 PM
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Hi Everyone,
It has been a short while since I have posted here -- I perceived a coldness from many here towards me the last time I was posting and my T told me that I need to stay away from hostility. Hostility and me tend to gravitate towards one another -- I'll feed off the negativity and then unconsciously create it too. This board taught me that and has helped me become more aware.
Hopefully, all is in the past will be forgotten and I can move on here with the new growth and strength that I have found recently. I'm still working to face my aloneness and feelings from when I was neglected due to my parents fighting with each other when I was young. If I feel this board is getting hostile then I will quietly step back and stop reading and posting again.
Right now I have struggling with a roommate that has been cold and covertly hostile to me. I have a beautiful apartment with 4 bedrooms. One of my roommates has lived with me for about 3 years - she is great. One suffers from paranoia and is moving because she thinks all of the other roommates are out to get her. At present, I'm looking for a new roomie to take her room.
The other roommate Jess, who I am struggling with, moved in last year.
My house rules are no men sleepovers, no drugs and no senseless gossiping about other roommates. I figure that if I get a good person then there is no need to express the importance of common sense and consideracy. For the most part my roommates have been very nice in the last 5 years. But lately, in the last year and 1/2 my roommates have been cold. I wonder, could it be that I am attracting N's into my life at time when some of the old pain and memories from my own N mom are coming up?
When potential N roomie, Jess, moved in last year she went to another roomie, who was moving out, and asked her about bills and if I ever show the actual bills to the roommates rather than just asking for the amount. (I show them if they ask me). It was not that big of a deal but it did show me that Jess was potentially not trustworthy and I did ask her why she did not come to me directly. She made excuses and rationalized -- I let it go and make sure I always attach bills when asking for the money.
The next bit of tension came about a month after her move in; I moved a box of kitchen stuff that she had lying on the living room floor for over a month. I put it away in the kitchen, it was not that much just three appliances.
She then came knocking on my bedroom door that night to confront me with a cold contemptuous attitude she said please do not ever touch my stuff again and then she abruptly turned away and left me standing there feeling really ashamed even though I thought that I was helping her by putting her stuff away. I let that one go also.
She has broken every rule since she has lived with me in the last year. She has snuck men over, the other roommates tell me, and she has gossiped about me to the other roommates in an attempt to form alliances with them like a "Real World" manipulation tactic.
All of this I let go too because I have learned over the years that roommates come and go and usually stay for about a year or two. The really good ones have stayed with me for 3 to 4 years and then got married, moved in with boyfriends or found their own apartment. I figured I would just compromise with N Jess because I sensed that if I was to express myself or feelings about her situation with me, in any way shape or form, she would get defensive and upset. I'd rather have peace or I thought so until this last year :) at least I'm working towards that now.
However, this Chirstmas, while I was a way, she emails the household and informs, does not ask, that she is having a New Years Eve party. At this point I feel that I need to use my voice and ask her to make sure the place is cleaned really well after the party and to please make sure that drunk guests do not go into the roommates bedrooms. The main reason I had to ask her to clean up was because she normally leaves a mess when she does entertain and I felt that it was important for my sanity to speak up. I did not want to return on New Years day to a big mess. This was reasonable of me and my motives were not to make her feel bad but as I said to use my voice and stand up for myself.
When I returned from my trip Jess got defensive and started a dramatic argument, criticizing me and telling me to not speak to her about my feelings. I told her that if she is not comfortable with my expression of feelings then she can move out and find a place that she will be more comfortable. She suddenly started crying and saying that she loves her room and love the apartment. I said, "OK stay then" -- I was feeling bad. I told her to figure out what she needed and wanted and to tell me with out being demeaning or playing games. She said she would but I do not trust her.
She is away for the next two weeks but I think I am going to struggle with this until she does finally move out.
Just read about coping with N's again.
I want to stop attracting N's into my life, no more N's, they are so damn frustrating!
Lise
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Welcome Back Sweetie,
Jess seems like she will never get "better" in the sense of being a "good roomate". I think that "what you see is what you get." So, I would make whatever decision you need to ,with that in mind. That is how I read it anyway.
So happy to "see" you, again. Love Ami
((((((((((Lise))))))))))))
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Thank you for that warm welcome Ami...I really needed that.
I missed you too.
(((((AMI)))))
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OHHHHHHHH! Ami
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Yes, you are correct Ami -- What I see is what I get with her. Selfish, manipulative and devious. She plays all of the manipulators tricks and then turns around and lies about all.
Jess said that she will move out (we keep going back and forth about it). I have stuck to the decision to just ask her to consider moving at her convenience in the next few months. I do not want to be a bully type who forces anyone out of a home. But I do feel very uncomfortable with her hostility. She vacillates between being nice and then trying to intimidate me. I feel like I am just along for the ride in her life, an object with no feelings or needs that she can use and abuse. She is cold when she is unhappy with me which is most of the time for no good reason and then she warm but only when she needs something.
I have to work really hard at not attracting N's into my life. Or at least learning how to not let them under my skin.
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Dear Lise,
I think that you need to keep in mind, at all tmes, that even if the situation gets better for a short time, it wil be "bad" in the long haul. As you navigate your way through the ups and downs, keep this in mind,and also what is your final goal? If she is very disruptive to you, you will have to have a strong resolve and ask her to go. If not, you can let her stay,but don't lie to yourself about the true "nature " of the situation(IMO) Love Ami
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it wil be "bad" in the long haul.
That is the truth. When I read the above my heart sank into a reality of truth about the situation. It will work out as long as I do the right thing, trust and search for a new roomie with a really discerning attitude.
Jess does not have a leg to stand on and she knows this. It is my place. For a while I would not put it past her to try to run me out of it. That just won't happen now though.
Bean once said that boundaries are silent and people know what they can or can't do as well as how far they can push. I have developed some really strong boundaries lately and Jess can feel it.
It will work out. Thank you for your support.
Lise
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Hi Lise,
What a nice feeling I had when I saw your post. Welcome back. :)
That is the truth. When I read the above my heart sank into a reality of truth about the situation. It will work out as long as I do the right thing, trust and search for a new roomie with a really discerning attitude.
I believe you are working towards health through this decision. She sounds like she must go, for you and your own sanity. imho
You are working so hard I hope she is gone quickly as you fumigate all N's in your life.
Clear the path for you, Lise, you deserve clarity and safety along your way. ((seasons))
Again great to have you here!
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Oh ((((Seasons))))!!! Thank you so much for that.
When I came back here I was afraid that others would see me or patholigize me as an abusive N or bully or something. I have always had such a low self image of me because my N mom was never there to mirror me, the real me.
But this board, with all of its good and bad, can be an insightful and helpful place and every once in awhile, people like you post encouragement and warmth.
Thank you for seeing me and acknowleding me. I hope that I can be there for you one day.
Peace to you seasons, you are such a gentle and warm spirit.
Lise
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Glad to see you back, Lise! Sorry for your roomate problem, but it sure sounds like you have a pretty good handle on it. I bet you won't let it happen again.
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Oh, my, Lise...
After reading all of this, I think Bean is absolutely correct: a simple "it's not working out", along with a very firm deadline by which she must vacate the premises... sounds like the wisest option to me.
Any attempt at explanation will likely begin another round of badgering, tears, manipulation, etc.... and the bottom line to me is - you deserve to have someone you trust living in your home, not a person who thinks nothing of lying at every opportunity.
It is, after all, your home... your place of solace and security and comfort.
With love,
Carolyn
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Thank you Bean!!
Good to be back - I missed you.
A while back, when I left the board, I just was not strong enough to cope with the board and I was not sure if I would ever be at that time. But I have grown some...and now I realize that people can only push my buttons if I let them :D.
The board has helped me to know myself and see myself so that when others try to derail me, like my toxic roommate, I can stand strong and not react.
I wrote Jess an email an told her to "please consider what she said about moving on the 15th of Feb." I told her that she will be happier if she lives with someone more her personality type and lifestyle. Now I am just hoping that she follows through and moves. I'll keep you posted.
You are right, it is bordering on traumatic for me to have to ask someone to move. That is why I came back here for support. Roommates can be touch to deal with.
Good to hear from you Bean I look forward to continuing the journey of healing and self discovery with you and the supportive others here.
Lise (((BEAN)))
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Thank you alone48 for your warm welcome back to the board.
(((((alone48))))
Lise
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Oh, my, Lise...
After reading all of this, I think Bean is absolutely correct: a simple "it's not working out", along with a very firm deadline by which she must vacate the premises... sounds like the wisest option to me.
Any attempt at explanation will likely begin another round of badgering, tears, manipulation, etc.... and the bottom line to me is - you deserve to have someone you trust living in your home, not a person who thinks nothing of lying at every opportunity.
It is, after all, your home... your place of solace and security and comfort.
With love,
Carolyn
Thank you Carolyn for your supportive words, this is exactly what I needed to hear. I have been a pushover and doormat for so much of my life - I am and have been easy target for the bullies. So your encouragement hits home with me. I tell myself that she will label me the bully or mean one if I try to be firm and tell her to leave, which I have already done. So now I am just dealing with the feelings and your words made a difference.
Thank you so much for your post.
Lise
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Lise, I have similar problems with letting people into my space and I have decided that the Narc, my son, who is sponging off me has to go. I am about to give up my house, I can't afford the continual rate hikes, and especially not when my newly qualified apprentice son thinks he should be allowed to live all privileges free in this home, admittedly there are no girls, and no parties but it is the attitude that pervades that gets under my skin. I will be selling my house and my son has been told that this is what I am doing and I am retiring. I will be 59 in May. I might have to wait until next year to get the government pension but in the meantime, I am starting to contemplate downsizing so I don't have to put up with anyone other than myself to deal with. I find it is the only way. We have been so badly damaged that we have to have total control of our environment. At least, that is the way I see it.
Kim
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Dear Gabben,
I think your living situation is `inately ' difficult, if that makes sense. You are not a `room-mate' exactly; you are trying to live like a room mate, but in reality your `room-mates' are boarders, not room-mates, and they not equals in any way. You are their landlord. I draw this distinction because you're the only one with any power, whereas the term `room-mates' usually refers to a bunch of people sharing accommodation with equal rights, which is not the case in your scenario.
I think the biggest problem with your control over the situation is that as a landlord, your terms for boarding goes beyond the usual requirements, such as paying rent and bills on time and being clean. Also, your boarders are afforded much less privacy than is the normto the point where you dictate how theys should live, and deny them the right to conduct romance in the safety of their own residence.
To be frank, I would never sign a lease where the landlord wanted to live with me, and also dictate my romantic life. It would be absurd. Thats not because I'm an N, but because I've experienced normal leases and they do not include such things as livign with me or not allowing guests of my choosing.
I can only imagine that more experienced boarders staying in your accommodation would feel the lack of privacy and resent the unreasonable terms, based on general experience.
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Bella,
I agree to a point, they supposedly knew coming in that those were the terms. Also, Lise, do you hold yourself to the same standard? No male overnight guest? I could see that being a problem if it is only for the renters, but if it's a house rule, they all knew it coming into the situation.
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Hi Bella and alone48,
Yes, my renters knew the situation and no "sleepover rule" coming into the house.
Since I am Catholic I do not support premarital sex (no tomatoes please) I know that is not a popular stance in our culture today. I have my convictions and though I am not forcing them on others (or even judging) who live with me I am just reinforcing my beliefs under my own roof. If others do not agree then they don't move in.
Originally, when I first took over the lease 5 years ago, there was no such rule has to whether or not roommates could have guests or not. In the past, roommates would have guys trapping through the apartment during the week and on weekends and it was uncomfortable for me and the others roommates to hear the sex noises, wake up to strange guys making coffee in our kitchen and taking long showers when the other roommates needed to use the bathrooms. The male guests also seemed to take up part-time residence in the apartment and found my living room couch to be a great hang out most nights of the week. This was a privacy issue that affected the entire house. At one point, one roommate suggested another roommate's boyfriend start paying rent too because he slept at our apartment almost every night of the week. With four females, hopefully, you can see the potential conflict men sleeping over can create.
A couple of years ago my roommate, who was also my friend, suggested that we create the no men sleepover rule, if people want to spend time with their boyfriends they then were going to have to go to their boyfriends place at night. This worked beautifully and most roommates, who move in, really appreciate the level of privacy it creates as well as the feeling of safety and the host of problems that are eliminated by this house rule.
If people don't like the rule then they just don't have to rent from me.
Also, I am not the landlord in a technical sense, I am the master tenant renting from the landlord (who lives in another city) the roommates are the subtenants and by my city laws have to respect me, the master tenant as the law, so to speak, if they don't like the living situation I provide then they have to move out.
My landlord loves me as his master tenant because normally I get a long well with roomers, treating them fairly and because I am responsible, quiet and clean.
Hope that gives some clarity.
Lise
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Lise,
I reread what you wrote and something jumps out at me - take it or leave it.
You said she has decided to move out...but goes back and forth with you.
Why not just give her a timeline. Why let it be at her convenience? Is it convenient for you to be left wondering? I'm not saying you have to get angry and lose your cool, I'm saying what if you just look at the objective facts. She's expressed her desire to move out. You're trusting her intent, now you need to know when because you're going to be lining up a new roommate.
Business. simple
Else, she is playing a game with you and that's what you're trying to avoid, right? Take the emotion out of it. This person is paying you rent. If she leaves, you'd like another renter - another source of income for you. That's what a roomie is, nothing more nothing less. right?
bean
Hi Bean,
Thanks for this, yes, I need to be firm and assertive with her. What amazes me is that N's think that assertive behavior is abuse, that being direct, yet tactful is bullying....I'm going to remain true to my feelings of discomfort with her, express myself tactfully and let her know that I want her to move out in 30 days, when she gets back from her trip that is.
Your post is encouraging....Thank you, it is not easy for me to assert myself but I am so tired of being a doormat.
Lise
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Lise, I have similar problems with letting people into my space and I have decided that the Narc, my son, who is sponging off me has to go. I am about to give up my house, I can't afford the continual rate hikes, and especially not when my newly qualified apprentice son thinks he should be allowed to live all privileges free in this home, admittedly there are no girls, and no parties but it is the attitude that pervades that gets under my skin. I will be selling my house and my son has been told that this is what I am doing and I am retiring. I will be 59 in May. I might have to wait until next year to get the government pension but in the meantime, I am starting to contemplate downsizing so I don't have to put up with anyone other than myself to deal with. I find it is the only way. We have been so badly damaged that we have to have total control of our environment. At least, that is the way I see it.
Kim
Hi Kim,
I'm so glad that you are here! Thanks for your post.
Yes, we do have to control our environment, agreed. But it has to be done with integrity and respect for others. You sound like you are on that path. It is difficult to understand your situation completely, please write more if you can, I sense that you are taking steps to let go of a home that you had for a long time and that there is uncertainty and tension as well as it is challenging to assert yourself with your son because he sees you as a bit of an object in his way from furthering his own personal agenda, correct me if I am wrong please.
This is hard stuff you and I am in and it can trigger memories from our FOO stuff, if our FOO stuff is not what created the situation in the first place meaning that we, those of us who came from abusive families tend to gravitate towards old familiar patterns of uncomfort and being taken advantage of.
(((Kim))) Glad you are here -- Lise
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Dear Gabben,
I am not doubting your `right' to set house rules, nor the responsibility of the girls for accepting those rules. But like I said, the rules are inherently `difficult' because they violate the rights of other adults to practice their own beliefs in their own home. (its their home too, so long as they pay money to live there) . The rules also fail to offer the girls room to explore their own feelings and thoughts about theology, without being threatened with eviction. So many young adults come into Catholicism because they were brainwashed by their parents from early childhood. Then as young adults, they start to think for themselves, and a certain portion at least explore other ideas, if not adopt new ones completely. Its the nature of things.
I have my convictions and though I am not forcing them on others (or even judging) who live with me I am just reinforcing my beliefs under my own roof. If others do not agree then they don't move in.
I believe you ARE forcing your beliefs on your residents, because they are forced to practice YOUR beliefs in THEIR home. If any one of them develops an alternative belief or theology to yours, as young adults are prone to do, they would naturally feel violated and uncomfortable with practicing your religious beliefs in THEIR home.
The way I see it, so long as these remain the terms for your boarders, the kinds of disturbances you've described will be a natural by-product. The `disturbing' girls will be the more free-thinking ones, with a sense of their own rights.
For a lot of young people, stability is very important, and the relationships formed in one's home are a big part of their lives. I think it would be natural for a resident to feel upset and even frightened at the thought of losing their home. And perhaps the resentment towards you arises then because they feel overly controlled, and sad about leaving?? Its just a thought.
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For a lot of young people, stability is very important, and the relationships formed in one's home are a big part of their lives. I think it would be natural for a resident to feel upset and even frightened at the thought of losing their home. And perhaps the resentment towards you arises then because they feel overly controlled, and sad about leaving?? Its just a thought.
Hi Bella,
Yep, I absolutely agree with above...people are going to feel resentment and fear at the thought of being asked to move out of their living situation this has caused me great concern and is part of the reason I have posted here. However, I too know resentment and fear with my roommate Jess's dishonest, manipulative and aggressive as well as at times hurtful behavior.
With all else you write, I disagree. I like my rule and I am not imposing my beliefs just asking that people don't bring overnight guests which is a very reasonable request, people can believe what they want.
There is also a no drug use rule, do you think that infringes on peoples free choice or liberties or that I am forcing my belief that drugs are destructive on roommates? Or, am I imposing on peoples freedom of speech to ask them to not gossip about each other because it creates problems?
Question: are you pro-choice?
Once again, this is my home and I get to set the rules, if the people who move in don't like them then they can "free think" for themselves and find another place to live.
Thanks for your input Bella, but no thanks...too many people respect my rule and think the way I do in regards to male sleepovers, call me old fashioned but I know in my heart that I am doing the right thing.
BTW -- I am a young person too.
Lise
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Bella,
Did it occur to you that you may be trying to impose your beliefs on me on my thread, your beliefs that my asking people to not have overnight guests infringes on their civil liberties?
Lise
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No Gabben, because I have no power to that. We are equals having a discussion. The difference is that in your situation, you have the power to evict your residents for practicing different beliefs in their home, and they understand that. Obviously some resent it.
Gabben, I have a direct way about me, but i want you to know that I mean you no offense. I couldn't think of a way to describe my thoughts without illustrating the power dynamic in your home to you. It seemed to me that your residents beahviour is a source of confusion to you, and you have even accused them of being `N's'. I hoped to show you that their behaviour is more of a (natural) reaction to the type of control you exert.
Bella
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It seemed to me that your residents behaviour is a source of confusion to you, and you have even accused them of being `N's'. I hoped to show you that their behaviour is more of a (natural) reaction to the type of control you exert.
Actually I have only accused one of them as being an N...read carefully. All other roommates that I have lived with in many recent years have been decent, good and have expressed agreement with me on the no men sleepover rule.
Also, I am not in confusion about my roommates behavior...no, I KNOW THAT SHE IS Narcissistic...big time N.
Nothing you write or say will change anything and I don't want to argue here with you.
Your postings to me are causing me to trigger about my N mom and her telling me that what I am experiencing and what I am feeling are not what I am experiencing an that my wants, needs, and desires are not valid.
You are causing a trigger for me to doubt myself which is what my N mom did to me for years and you are causing a trigger for me to feel crazy as I and the one with the problem here...if you only knew the bad behavior of my roommate you would not be coming to her defense at the expense of my hurt.
The trigger is good though because I can step back from board for a while and process the pain that is coming up for me.
The next time someone comes along, with your type if input, I will be even stronger and less reactionary...true to myself, heart and mind.
Lise
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For a lot of young people, stability is very important, and the relationships formed in one's home are a big part of their lives. I think it would be natural for a resident to feel upset and even frightened at the thought of losing their home. And perhaps the resentment towards you arises then because they feel overly controlled, and sad about leaving?? Its just a thought.
Hi Bella,
Yep, I absolutely agree with above...people are going to feel resentment and fear at the thought of being asked to move out of their living situation this has caused me great concern and is part of the reason I have posted here. However, I too know resentment and fear with my roommate Jess's dishonest, manipulative and aggressive as well as at times hurtful behavior.
With all else you write, I disagree. I like my rule and I am not imposing my beliefs just asking that people don't bring overnight guests which is a very reasonable request, people can believe what they want.
There is also a no drug use rule, do you think that infringes on peoples free choice or liberties or that I am forcing my belief that drugs are destructive on roommates? Or, am I imposing on peoples freedom of speech to ask them to not gossip about each other because it creates problems?
Question: are you pro-choice?
Once again, this is my home and I get to set the rules, if the people who move in don't like them then they can "free think" for themselves and find another place to live.
Thanks for your input Bella, but no thanks...too many people respect my rule and think the way I do in regards to male sleepovers, call me old fashioned but I know in my heart that I am doing the right thing.
BTW -- I am a young person too.
Lise
Yes Gabben, I your policies on drugs and gossip are also a form of using your power to control your residents behaviour in their home. I'm not making a value judgement regarding your beliefs (as I share some of them) , I'm just calling it what it is: control.
You obviously feel justified exerting this level of control, I don't know what to say about that. Maybe you just need a lot of control, and your in a position of power so you can get that.
All I'm saying is that I think the disruptions you described are natural response to control that extends to dictating the . It doesn't make your residents N's.
I'm not sure what you could do, but your attitude towards `free thinkers' might be softened a little if you could understand their feelings from their persepctive? (w2hich i am trying to offer ). You might get some good results from them by offering some understanding instead of thinking of them as N's and resenting them.
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Thanks Bella.
Bye,
Lise
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Gabben, i typed my last response to you whilst you were typing yours; sorry.
Ok, I trust you if you say your disruptor is an N. I'm sure you've researched it and know the signs.
I'm really sorry to hear about your N-mom causing you to doubt your opinions and reality. Maybe this is part of why you need to be surrounded by people who reinforce your beliefs? Maybe thats what you need to heal, and to feel safe right now. I do not begrudge you that, and like you said you are able to find residents who share your beliefs. I wish the idea of people having alternate beliefs was not threatening to you, because it would provide your residents with a more egalitarian environment, that didn't violate their rights to explore new ideas. But i do understand your reasoning. I can empathise with you, as i was hurt by my N-mother too.
X bella
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Once again, thanks Bella and peace to you.
I ran my house rules by an therapist friend of mine who is non-catholic and does not share the same values and beliefs that I do yet I really enjoy her and like "surrounding" myself, from time to time by her company. She says that I would be crazy to not set some limits with roommates, she said that I am doing a good thing by setting some rules.
Lise
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Dear Gabben,
I really am sorry to have aroused pain in you. I mean that!!!
May I please ask you a question? I would really like to have further discussions with you, and help you to feel welcome on this board. You are interesting and seem thoughtful and kind to me. I feel that what you have to say is valuable here.
My question is, do I cause you pain when i disagree with you in general? Would it make things easier if I spoke up only when I agreed, and can offer you validation, or are some types of disagreements ok? I really have trouble understanding the perspective of someone who grew up being abused in the specific way you described. In fact, i always have and I could use a bit of help, if you care to guide me?
X Bella
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Oh, my, Lise...
After reading all of this, I think Bean is absolutely correct: a simple "it's not working out", along with a very firm deadline by which she must vacate the premises... sounds like the wisest option to me.
Any attempt at explanation will likely begin another round of badgering, tears, manipulation, etc.... and the bottom line to me is - you deserve to have someone you trust living in your home, not a person who thinks nothing of lying at every opportunity.
It is, after all, your home... your place of solace and security and comfort.
With love,
Carolyn
Thank you Carolyn for your supportive words, this is exactly what I needed to hear. I have been a pushover and doormat for so much of my life - I am and have been easy target for the bullies. So your encouragement hits home with me. I tell myself that she will label me the bully or mean one if I try to be firm and tell her to leave, which I have already done. So now I am just dealing with the feelings and your words made a difference.
Thank you so much for your post.
Lise
Dear Lise,
You're very welcome. I am an expert at being a pushover/doormat, from days gone by. Even still, I have to force myself to take a good long pause before agreeing to something... giving myself time to consider all the ramifications. My natural inclination is to just go with the flow.
Posting here on this board, with plenty of time to think and consider before just nodding and smiling... well, that's been great practice for thinking more independently and not just following blindly along with whatever the - ahem - stronger personalities or more vocal ones suggest.
Anyhow, I haven't read all of the other responses beyond this, but I do hope you'll continue to post about this process you're going through in dealing with this renter... and what you decide to do in the end. However it works out, one thing's for sure... none of this is a waste. Takes time and practice to break out of these old ruts!
Love to you,
Carolyn
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Hi Bella,
No, I do not need people to agree with me always and the support does not always have to be what I want to hear. As a matter of fact most of my growth and genuine healing has come in the form of someone telling me something that I do not want to hear. I take criticism well, when it is truthful and fits. You know that saying "the truth hurts." Yes it does...I have had to hear the truth about me many times.
I'm in 12 step recovery, have been since I was 17, I'm 39 now. In AA, we, or some of us, practice rigorous honesty and that means looking at ourselves, fearlessly and trying to see what is wrong with us, not others. I have done many fourth steps and fifth steps over the years. I have confessed my faults with others repeatedly and worked on myself, hard, otherwise I do not stay sober. I learned many years ago that hanging on to resentment, fear and guilt are the emotions that cause alcoholics, of my type, to drink again.
When I started having problems with this roommate the first thing I did was question myself and look to see where I was being selfish and inconsiderate to her, if I was. I have lived with people for so long that my thinking is "other oriented" and this particular roomer is selfish oriented.
So when your comments came in here they did not ring right or true for me. I expressed my disagreement but I in no way tried to quiet you or make you feel wrong for expressing yourself against me...no I said thank you but my FEELINGS are telling me otherwise.
Please ask others here, many times people will tell me stuff that is adverse to what I am seeking and I will take it and look at it and see if what they are saying has truth to it.
After many years of hearing the painful truth I know what it feels like to hear it...I have a truth or "ouch, I have just heard the truth" button that goes off. I may need some time to process it but I will eventually face it and grow.
The pain is not from your disagreement it is from trying to tell me that I am a controller or that I am the wrong in the situation with the roomie. Yet in my heart I know I am not wrong or bad. The pain is from all the times when I was a little girl and I would come home from school and tell my mom that a bully was being mean to me and my my N mom would tell me that it was my fault.
That is what the pain is...
Thanks for writing Bella and I appreciate your comments.
Lise
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Takes time and practice to break out of these old ruts!
That is exactly what I needed to hear... my patterns do not change overnight... it takes practice.
Thanks for taking the time to write this Carolyn. What a blessing to my ears this was.
Love to you,
Lise
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The pain is not from your disagreement it is from trying to tell me that I am a controller or that I am the wrong in the situation with the roomie. Yet in my heart I know I am not wrong or bad. The pain is from all the times when I was a little girl and I would come home from school and tell my mom that a bully was being mean to me and my my N mom would tell me that it was my fault.
That is what the pain is...
Thanks so much for explaining it to me. I am really so sorry, Gabben. I can totally see why my words hurt you. I really went off on a tangent there, and you're right, it didn't relate to what you were saying, which is that you feel bullied by an N and you could use some support. I wasn't hearing you.
Please believe me, I did not intend that, and I feel terrible to have mirrored a sentiment that your mother used when you were a child. I can imagine the pain of being so alone in the face of bullying, only to feel more alone when your mother accused you of deserving it. The nerve of her!
Sorry Gabben, and thanks for pursuing this conversation with me.
X bella
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Wow---Lise and Bella--what a picture of graciousness. If kindness and love rule,it is amazing what can happen. I learned a few lessons,myself(lol) Love Ami
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I feel terrible to have mirrored a sentiment that your mother used when you were a child. I can imagine the pain of being so alone in the face of bullying, only to feel more alone when your mother accused you of deserving it. The nerve of her!
Sorry Gabben, and thanks for pursuing this conversation with me.
X bella
I do not want you to feel terrible....your e-mail above shows me and tells me a lot about what a good person you are and now I see that you were just trying to point something out to try to help me and the situation. I know that you did not mean direct harm.
The good news is that my pain is NOT your fault and I can heal it when I am feeling it. Triggers are OK and can be a healing tool. They can teach me about myself.
I wonder if you perhaps felt triggered by my rules? Perhaps that brought something up for you? Even if we still disagree I would like to hear your views.
(((Bella)))
Lise
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Gabben, I didn't realise it at the time, but Yes it did trigger me, you are right!. Because I was triggered, I did not hear you; I was thinking of another scenario completely!!
The scenario relates to my sister and thel abuse towards her children. Its a subject dear to my heart, and i was projecting. What a dummy!! I might start a thread about it rather than going off topic on yours.
But well spotted! I am so glad you understand about triggers, Gabben
X Bella
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What an AMAZING interaction between you! Ami
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UPDATE:
Roommate just sent an email saying that she will move on the 1st, whatever I need.
Wow...I feel so much better, like huge weight has been lifted. I had no idea how much Jess frightens me.
Critical, hostile and cold people are just scary...now I know why I have been losing sleep.
I am so relived that she is going to be moving....yeehaw!
I'll pray that she finds a really good place and that she grows from this experience.
Lise
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Wow, Bella.
Wow, Lise.
Wow, Carolyn.
KUDOS!
:D
Hops
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Gabben, I didn't realise it at the time, but Yes it did trigger me, you are right!. Because I was triggered, I did not hear you; I was thinking of another scenario completely!!
The scenario relates to my sister and thel abuse towards her children. Its a subject dear to my heart, and i was projecting. What a dummy!! I might start a thread about it rather than going off topic on yours.
But well spotted! I am so glad you understand about triggers, Gabben
X Bella
Hi Bella,
Do you feel like writing or talking about your triggor or the situation with your sister? I am all ears, if you need...
Lise
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Dear Gabben,
I would like and appreciate sharing that with you- thanks for the offer. I have a bit of work to do at the moment (its working hours here in OZ) but i'll have a go later on if theres time.
Thanks so much for the offer!!!
X bella
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If we ever need to see how the board can work at it's BEST---here it is ! Love Ami
((((((((Bella, Lise, Carolyn, )))))))
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Bella,
I understand what you are saying, but in actuality the landlord does have control. It would be the same if you rented and were told no pets, you accepted those terms and you abide by it. Whether or not I/we agree with Lise, it seems that it was a clear issue that was discussed before renting therefore I would think roomie needs to accept it or move on. There are others that would not impose that restriction and maybe roomie would be more comfortable. Ultimately, if Lise is the principal rentor and has the say so there is no reason she should have to accept this IMO.
Lise, I myself am Catholic and understand what you are saying. Even if you accept other people's belief it is hard to go against what was ingrained in you from an early age. I remember when I went to other churches, believing the roof would fall in on me, I have opened to other churches but it's hard to let old habits/beliefs die.