Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Lupita on January 19, 2008, 08:05:46 AM
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Or you just cannot stand certain people?
That question made by Overcomer, really hit me. Thank you overcomer.
I have run away all my life. Always because I could not stand certain people. Well, I am tired of running, I have to stay, and settled down. I have to deal with the fear that people like my mother provoke in me. I cannot keep running. Have no energy left, I have to stay and deal with this. Every time I find people like my mother, I run away, I move, find another job. I need to create a peaceful environment for me. To create segnority in a job. I have never worked more that six years in the same job. I find somebody like my mother and I have to run. I have somebody like my mother and I paralyze. I need to deal with this. I don’t know how, but I have to learn to deal with people like my mother and feel well. I do not need to run away because of people like my mother, because I am going to find people like my mother all over the world, where ever I go. I need to detach, to not feel fear when people tell me something like my mother. Not to run. I will be very lonely if I keep running. I need to make friends, and have old friends. I cannot have old friends because I do not stay enough in a place. I need to accept the person with out feeling overwhelmed. How? I don’t know, maybe by flooding.
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I tend to run too. I have been trying to get away from my mom for years. Trying to find a new job.
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It not even funny OC, you stay, probably because you feel trapped. I run away until I have no energy.
Both of us are worng, mistaken, confused. You might need to be free. I need to stop running and deal with my fears. i cannot keep running everytime I find somebody like my mother. That is ending my life.
Thank you for your idea OC. God bless you.
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Lupita, I understand.
There are people who drive me to distraction, as well... if I let it happen.
I think you're right about flooding, maybe... and mostly, just planting your feet and refusing to run this time.
Keep talking about it, just as you are.
It'll all be okay, really it will... you have great determination and power of will.
And Lupita... pray, pray, pray, as I am sure you do, that you will receive the wisdom from above to stand.
Love,
Carolyn
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Thank you CH for your comforting words. Flooding. I would need somebody to be the advocate of the devle. To practice with me. Like refuting ideas, like in cognitive therapy. That would be awesome. I guess I will have to save some money in the future to pay for a therapist to do that. Flooding.
Do you know of a book about that? Have you read about it?
Thanks ofr your response.
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Lupita,
I just googled "Emotional Flooding" and came up with .....
A special emphasis is placed on Gottman's concept of "emotional flooding" in which we become overwhelmed with anger, fear, hurt, sadness, or shame, and literally drown in the intensity of our own feelings, and then damage our relationships. Ways to enrich relationships and to emphasize appreciation are also a key part of these tapes.
There was more down the list to choose from.
Love, Leah
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Thank you Lea, that is very kind of you. I will ckeck it.
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Lupita,
I remember searching for info on flooding many months ago, and finding very little reference. As Leah says, Google is the tool I use, and I do recall only the barest minimum in search results, including the quote which she's posted here.
As I began to choose to look more deeply into my feelings and try to see what was buried beneath the all-over-upset feeling which many people inspired in me (many, many, many people did this) I found alot of the answers.
There's no money for cognitive therapy in my budget, so I use the Bible now.
I ask God to search my heart and show me what's going on. Why am I upset.
Then I ask Him to show me in His Word how to deal with it.
Sometimes I receive the wisdom, sometimes I reject it, out of my own strong will.
Sometimes, I learn to walk away from a person who is truly not a positive influence and will only drain me dry.
Other times, I learn to see the person through new eyes and then she/he does not aggravate me anymore!
So, that is my version of free cognitive therapy.
Love,
Carolyn
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That sounds very wise. I dont know if i can do it on my own. The feelings are uncontrolable, and that is why I feel so awful. But, I have to try something.
It seems that you have done a very good job.
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Dear Lupita,
Mine is the same as Carolyn's.
Even with a therapist, you still have to do the work. (I did have a counsellor, few years back, in the shock and fog stage).
Love & a Hug,
Leah
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Dear Lupita,
You really have been doing it on your own, to a great extent... simply by talking out your feelings on the board.
That's alot more than I could do, when I felt so overwhelmed by agitation and annoyance.
You put out your feelings so bravely... I admire that. At first, I found it shocking, until I realized that I often feel the same way... just hadn't been able to express it. So I thank you for your open-ness!
There is a point when the "talking out" becomes a "talking through", and you will find yourself coming out the other side, more than not. Seems to me that you are there, now... ready to come out on the other side.
I am doing much better, but mostly what I think you notice is a difference in personality styles. What's repressed in me can do just as much damage as what's tormenting you... and I know it. So... we are in the same boat, I know. And the main thing is, we don't want to be paddling around in circles, right? :)
Love to you,
Carolyn
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Or you just cannot stand certain people?
That question made by Overcomer, really hit me. Thank you overcomer.
I have run away all my life. Always because I could not stand certain people. Well, I am tired of running, I have to stay, and settled down. I have to deal with the fear that people like my mother provoke in me. I cannot keep running. Have no energy left, I have to stay and deal with this. Every time I find people like my mother, I run away, I move, find another job. I need to create a peaceful environment for me. To create segnority in a job. I have never worked more that six years in the same job. I find somebody like my mother and I have to run. I have somebody like my mother and I paralyze. I need to deal with this. I don’t know how, but I have to learn to deal with people like my mother and feel well. I do not need to run away because of people like my mother, because I am going to find people like my mother all over the world, where ever I go. I need to detach, to not feel fear when people tell me something like my mother. Not to run. I will be very lonely if I keep running. I need to make friends, and have old friends. I cannot have old friends because I do not stay enough in a place. I need to accept the person with out feeling overwhelmed. How? I don’t know, maybe by flooding.
Dear Lup,
I understand the running. I have come to learn that this pattern is exhausting. I am beginning to set my feet down and claim my space in some way. I don't want to run anymore. I know I have confronted conflict in the past six months in ways I never would have before. I just got plain sick of running, hiding, hoping things will change. It is very empowering when you stand your ground. I do hope that you will set your good roots down, you deserve a rest.
much hugs,
axa
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Dear Lupita:
Just a note to wish you the best, and that you will find peace.
¡Cuidate mucho!
Hermes
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Lupita, also this re:
Emotional Flooding ~ energy and emotions.
Signs and Symptoms:
Impulsivity: Doing or saying things without considering the consequences. Making decisions - before thinking about all of the information.
Feelings or behaviors come on too strong and/or too fast: Feelings come to the surface and are hard to hold back. Reacting to small things with too much emotion. Talking too loud or too fast when the topic is emotional.
Irritable and Easily Frustrated: Hard to forget even the small irritations. Brooding.
Emotional Flooding: Can become easily overwhelmed when feeling challenged socially or cognitively. Mind "goes blank." Once flooded, it is temporarily impossible to think clearly or act purposefully.
What helps:
Use this sequence "Stop, Think, Act, and Evaluate" and analyze how they did afterward
Be direct in response to inappropriate behaviors (i.e. interruptions, inappropriate remarks, tone of voice, facial expressions)
Have a relaxation strategy
In a tactful way, let the person know how they are coming across (i.e. "when you say I do this, it makes me feel.").
Verify what was really seen, heard, or felt, to know if your feelings and emotions are justified
Encourage use of breaks to relax, calm down, and re-attempt communication when ready
Excuse self from current situation if too upset
"SAVE" strategy (Stop, Ask, Verify, Evaluate)
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ooo... that is really very good, Leah!
I did not often speak impulsively, because of past voicelessness... but the impulsive thinking methods and often the doing, too... they surely got me into plenty of pickles. And oh, do I ever identify with the mind "going blank" part of it. Nearly everything overwhelmed me.
But there's another sort of flooding to which I think Lupita was referring...
as in a technique for overcoming certain issues/personality quirks/whatever which we find distressing...
more like aversion therapy, only in reverse...
where you choose willingly to over-expose yourself to something which triggers strong reactions in you, so as to develop a tolerance for it. A risky business, no doubt, but maybe helpful in some situations?
Love,
Carolyn
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Thank you so much Lea. That is exactly what happenes when I encounter or interact with people like my mother.
CH, that is why I wanted to practice with someone. I read it in David Bruns book. He agued with his patients until they came to a conclussion that they on their own were saying what they needed to say to start the healing.
I need to argue with someone wise enough to not get mad when I say something that he or she does not like, until I am flooded.
I was thinking on GFM she is such an N, impossible to communicate with her, she makes me crazy, and pray for my son not to marry her daughter, but, she gets me paralized. I cannot practice with her because I get totally inutilized by her presence.
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Dear Lupita,
I understand the need... and I do some of that sort of arguing with my husband, on a limited basis, because I know that he won't reject me for disagreeing with his view. On the other hand, I also know that he's only human and I don't want to abuse the privilege of his patience and understanding.
Maybe paying a therapist is the best human way to get it all out of the system and not receive a cold shoulder... but that's not an option for me.
I argue with God, too, at times... and He is never rejecting, always standing by and willing to hear my differences... but that's different, because I always know that He is right and so I don't try to hold onto my position too long when it doesn't meet with His agreement.
Hmm... actually, Lupita, I think you've done some of this disagreeing/ mild arguing right here on the board, without getting rejected or angry response, so... I'd say that it's possible here, too - on a limited basis.
Love,
Carolyn
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You said it. ON limited bases. I hav to walk on egg shells. if you knew all my thoughts you would bemad at me. So, I have to be very careful. So, limited bases. Limited.
I wish I had somebody I could talk about everything. I guess I will have to pay him or her. About all my disgust.
I yes, here, it was teh frist time I understood what a boundary was.
And I have not been rejected yet. Hope that never happenes, always have the fear.
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Lupita,
If I knew all of your thoughts I would disagree with at least some of them, I am sure...
and it's the same for you with me.
If you knew all of my thoughts, you would surely disagree with at least some of them.
For instance, I know how you feel/think about women who are homemakers and do not work outside their homes to earn a paycheck. I disagree with you about that, but I am not mad at you. That thought/feeling of yours is only one aspect of your entire personhood - - it does not define you.
I think that we can tell a mature, sane person exactly how we feel and what we think about issues without causing a rift.
The rifts come when we take one of our own thoughts/feelings about a person and then place a label on that person and tell them: "You are (this label)".
Love,
Carolyn
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I understand. You have to be able to communicate with the person. But, sometimes you find persons who you cannot communicate.
Like GFM and others, and that is what makes me triggered.
So, that is what I am working on. And keep insisting with the flooding. That is practice. Like a piano lesson. You practice, but the teacher shows you how to practice. I need a teacher now. I will try to find a teacher on that.
Like here on limited bases.
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Right, Lupita.
I don't think you can let GFM be your direct teacher. And I can't let a person who stirs up huge feelings of helpless frustration and annoyance in me get close enough to make a mark on my mood. Practicing in the smaller things, confronting little grievances with people who can be trusted not to hit back - that's the way to learn, I think. And also practicing clearer communication skills... for instance, with one person who is currently determined to pretend to be my boss at work, my only responses right now are:
" I see. "
and
" All is well. "
End of discussion.
:D
Love,
Carolyn
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CH, I just wanted to add, that at the beginning in the board, I only connected with CB and Hopalong. Now, I started connecting with you Lighter, and Lea, and Overcomer, and Axa, and many others, that I felt uncomprehensible before. So, I most be improving.
I have to accept human beings, accept them as they are, no matter if they are like my mother, not suffer because anybody remains me of my mother.
That is wat I need to do. I guess.
And I can't let a person who stirs up huge feelings of helpless frustration and annoyance in me get close enough to make a mark on my mood
That really stroke me. You are right.
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Hermes, I just saw your note, thank you for your good wishes.
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Lupita, again... I understand... me, too! Can feel my horizons expanding, as I get along with more and more different sorts of people and see the common humanity underlying all the differences. One woman at work yesterday told me that when she first met me there, she wondered how in the world she was going to get along with me, because I was so quiet. Well, I'd wondered the same about her, because she is so boisterous! Now we both see that there is no sinister cause behind our differences in style, and we can not only accept each other, but also enjoy each other's company.... I would add - on a limited basis... lol :D
The one who bugs me there is alot like my mother in her terse mannerisms and smug expressions, but I was able to get beyond that, at first... in fact, I had mostly come to peace within myself about her, when I caught her in a lie and recognized that I had been so eager to accept and be accepted that I had let myself turn a somewhat deaf ear to her capacity for gossip and backbiting. So... again, all things in moderation and in good balance!
Love,
Carolyn
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Did you see Leas thread of annoyance? Axa posted about people who wait, IMO they are opportunistic, and work to their convenience.
It is so bad for me. Nasty co-workers. Those are regular co-workers, they go against anybody that they are told to, not own character, not own judgement to deffedn the inoscent.
It is so triggering.
I am glad that you worked it out with your co-worker.
I have not been able to do that in 3D. ONly here on the board. I will try to do it ouside.
I am going of to the gym in an hour. Will see if I can reach out for someone and give a smile, a compliment and a nice trivial conversation, with out looking for acceptance, with out looking for love, with out looking for a mother.
Hope to talk to you later. It has been a very productive morning here tolking to you, thank you CH.
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Thank you, too, Lupita... I've appreciated our talk and will take another look at the annoyance thread Leah began, as well as another one I haven't yet read, along similar lines. Off to do grocery shopping in a bit, but hope to be back later.
Hope you enjoy your time at the gym and find someone fun with whom to visit!
Love,
Carolyn
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Axa, please forgive me that I did not see your comment before. Thank you for you r response.
OK, this is what I would like to do. To find somebody to be able to pose as a person just like my mother and allow me to fight with him/her.
Behavioral and Cognitive Approaches In Anxiety Management
Uploaded by drinksbeer (234) on Jan 6, 2005
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Behavioral And Cognitive Approaches In The Management Of Anxiety
Compare and Contrast Behavioural and Cognitive Approaches in the Management of Anxiety
The Behavioural Model sees the cause of abnormality as the learning of maladaptive habits. It aims to discover, by laboratory experiment, what aspect of the environment produced this learning, and it sees successful therapy as learning new and more adaptive ways of behaving. There are two kinds of basic learning processes that exist: Operant and Pavlovian conditioning. These have generated a set of behavioural therapies.
Pavlovian or Classical therapies begin with the assumption that emotional habits have been acquired by the contingency between a conditioned stimulus and an unconditional stimulus. The formerly neutral conditioned stimulus now produces a conditioned response, which is the acquired emotion. Two Pavlovian therapies, Systematic Desensitisation and Flooding, extinguish some maladaptive emotional habits quite successfully.
Systematic Desensitisation is a behaviour therapy primarily used to treat phobias and specific anxieties. The phobic is first given training in deep muscle relaxation and is progressively exposed to increasing anxiety-evoking situations (real or imagined). Because relaxation and fear are mutually exclusive, stimuli that formerly induced panic are now greeted calmly. A classic demonstration of this therapy was carried out by Jones (1924). She successfully treated a young boy's fear of rabbits by having him eating in the presence of a rabbit, while gradually bringing the rabbit closer to him over a number of occasions. The encourage of a pleasant response such as eating is incompatible with fear.
In Flooding the phobic is exposed to situations or objects most feared for an extended length of time without an opportunity to escape. In one study, agoraphobics went through several sessions in which they had to go out into the street and walk alone until they could no longer manage. A few such sessions led to a marked improvement as judged by both client and therapist (Emmelkamp and Wessels ,1975). In flooding, the treatment is carried out in vivo, that is, in real life. But, real-life exposure to threatening stimuli is often impossible or impractical. It's not all that easy to bring snakes and dogs into a therapist's office to do flooding therapy. Under the circumstances, the next best thing is in vitro, in a simulation, and refers to the use of imagery. One example is implosion therapy, and the patient must imagine the most terrifying situation he could possibly conceive.
Another behaviour therapy technique, Aversion therapy, tries to attach negative feelings to stimulus situations that are initially very attractive so that the patient will no longer want to approach them. The object of this endeavour is to eliminate behaviour patterns that both patient and therapist regard as undesirable. Examples are overeating, or excessive drinking.
Operant conditioning is based on three concepts: Reinforcer, operant and discriminative stimulus. Operant therapies are based on the assumption that people acquire voluntary habits by positive reinforcement and punishment. Operant therapies provide new and more adaptive repertoires of voluntary responses. Among such therapies are Selective Positive Reinforcement, Selective Punishment and Extinction. In Selective Positive Reinforcement the therapist delivers positive reinforcement contingent on the occurrence of one particular behaviour. In Selective Punishment, the therapist negatively reinforces a certain target event, causing it to decrease in probability. Extinction occurs when there is a negative contingency between the conditioned stimulus and the unconditioned stimulus. These three techniques have all been applied with success to such disorders as Anorexia Nervosa, a disorder in which the individual has an intense fear of becoming fat, eats too little to sustain herself, and has a distorted body image.
Avoidance Learning, the act of getting out of a situation that has been previously associated with an aversive event, there by preventing the aversive event, combines operant and Pavlovian theory, and helps us in the treatment of obsessive-compulsive disorders.
Cognitive school is an outgrowth and reaction to the behavioural school. In contrast to the behaviourists, the cognitive school holds that mental events are not epiphenomena, rather they cause behaviour. More particularly, disordered cognitions will alleviate and sometimes cure psychopathology. Cognitive therapy is carried out by attempting to change different sorts of mental events, which can be divided into short-term mental events and long-term mental events. Some short-term mental events consist of expectations, including outcome (a person's estimate that a given behaviour will lead to the desired outcome) and efficacy expectations (a person's belief that he can successfully execute the behaviour that will produce a desires outcome). Other short-term mental events are appraisals, or mental evaluations of our experience, and attributions, the designations of causes concerning our experience. Long-term mental events include beliefs, some of which are irrational and illogical.
The main components to cognitive therapy are education, identification of negative automatic thoughts and challenging dysfunctional schemata. In education, the individual may have little information about anxiety, or may have mistaken information such as a belief that a panic attack is the same as a heart attack. A key step in cognitive therapy is helping the individual to identify the negative automatic thoughts that are intimately connected with feelings of depression and anxiety. These may be identified in the clinical sessions themselves, for example, by asking the individual to role-play a difficult encounter, or they can be identified in homework by asking the individual to keep a diary of such thoughts in the situations in which they arise. Once identified, the individual is then encouraged to test their validity, to question them, and to check for the evidence for and against. The identification and challenging of negative thoughts leads into the final phase of cognitive therapy which is challenging the dysfunctional schemata that underlie the negative thoughts.
Many therapists practice both cognitive and behavioural therapy and are called cognitive-behavioural therapists. Multi-model therapy is an example of the use of cognitive and behavioural techniques along with techniques from the other models.
Thus, behavioural therapy is concerned with unwanted, overt behaviour rather than hypothetical underlying causes. Techniques used are derived from classical and instrumental conditioning. Cognitive therapies are for internal anxieties. The therapy is concrete and of a directive orientation , but there is no emphasis on conditioning. It tries to change the way the patient thinks about his/her situation. Other types include various attempts to advance the patients social education, using techniques such as graded task assignments, modelling and role-playing.
However, phobias and obsessive-compulsive disorders are dominated by the behavioural approach and anxiety by the cognitive approach.
REFERENCES
Comer,R (1992) Abnormal Psychology. U.S.A.:W.H.Freeman and Company.
Emmelkamp & Wessels (1975) "Flooding in imagination vs. flooding in vivo: A comparison with agoraphobics". Behaviour research and therapy (13) 7-15.
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OK, this is what I would like to do. To find somebody to be able to pose as a person just like my mother and allow me to fight with him/her
:( Sorry Lupita,
As much as I love volunteering, stand in the back row on this one!
Hey, seriously, you could sign on one of those forums where they fight out the words with one another -- keyboards at dawn!!
All the best with your quest, Lup
I feel a need for some of that peace you mentioned on your other thread :)
Love, Leah
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LOL Lea, I understand, I did not think I would get it here. I guess I have to save mone and pay for a therapist.
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Or Implosion therapy in which the therapist has the client imagine the worst possible situation.
Let us see, my students gettin in my face, my boss saying I does not want me to work there, my coworkers saying ugly things to me, my son calling GFM "mother.....YIKES!!!!!!...... that is the worst. Or my son against me, wow, my son alienated by those two women against me. OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Hello Lupita: and all on the group
It would be very very strange indeed if everyone agreed with everyone else about everything LOL. IMO it is possible to debate on any subject, to hear others' opinions, viewpoints. One should be able to put forward a view, no matter how outlandish, without having to pussy-foot around the issue. When you have to walk on eggshells you simply cannot put a matter clearly either, and that can lead to worse confusion.
I think you mentioned women going out to work, and others who stay at home. I fail to see what problem there might be with that. It is entirely the woman's choice, IMO, and in many many cases women (married women) have no choice but to go out to work, if there is a hefty mortgage to be paid, plus other myriad household expenses.
All the married women I know (and they range widely in age, right up to a couple of ladies who are close to 70!) are working.
In our society here some wealthy women can stay at home, if that is what they wish to do.
All the best, Lupita.
y ¡ ánimo !
Hermes
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I think Victor Frankl's book "Man's Search for Meaning" is like one genesis of implosion therapy.
love
Hops
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I think it is a good sign to get to be around anyone and not lose yourself, step away from people who aren't a great influence but also- go out of my comfort zone if the only reason I don't like someone is because of my own insecurities.
I would never go to a therapist to have any kind of therapy involving shouting or arguing though- I don't really believe it is useful. Acting out anger makes more anger.
There's nothing better than a good therapist though- and some work from churches and not-for-profits on a sliding scale, my friend paid just a few dollars when her finances were upside down.
~W
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Hermes, thank you so much for you comments.
Hops, thank you for the book. I will check it. For sure. I mean, if God gives me enough time. I have several on my list now. But yes, I have to dominate those fears among N people.
Write, the minimum I have found is $60.00. And that was a sliding scale according to that person.
Nope, not now. I have to do what CH does. Do it on my own.
I have learned a lot here on the Board. About the arguing, according to David Burns, it is not really arguing, it is refuting negative ideas, in vivo, by discussion.
Remember Socrates, the greek phylosopher? he said that from the discussion the light is borned. That is what is about.
The therapist makes you see through discussion, personifying the worst that can happens. You might consider to read the book of David Burns MD Feeling Good, about cognitive therapy, so you know more about that. very interesting.
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Thank you for your post Izzi. Although it is not related, thank you anyway.
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Hi Lupita
The post was related to time
To quote you "if God gives me enough time"
G_d has given you the time and it is up to use to use it wisely and you will be given no more , no less than G_od allows.
I often wonder if some people really do read and understand posts??
Izzy
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Still, I think it was not related. But again, it is me, sure, your association of ideas is very different of mine. With God's help I will understan some day.
Thank you and God bless you.
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Hello all
As life for me is now, I can think of no one that I "just cannot stand"
Sometimes I have acquaintances ( I don't use the word friend) do something that irritates me but it doesn't make me 'hate' the person.
I read Victor Frankl's book "Man's Search for Meaning",...... the very first after leaving the N and it really struck home that no matter what was taken from me, no matter how badly I was embarrassed or hurt or abused, I still have my thoughts and no one can take them from me. I can think about something and act immediately, or think about it and act later, or not act at all.
What I am most grateful for, what I value the most is my solitude and the time I have left to live life under my terms and no one else's.
Izzy
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Dear Izzi, maybe you could start a thread with that, it sounds very interesting.
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Lupita
That's already on the board, just different words:
Things I like...
and
Things I don't like....
Izzy
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Maybe it was more related to that. You might like to add it to there too. This thread has nothing to do with things to like or hate. It has to do with things able to handel and not able to handle. Maybe God is providing with the opportunity to develop new skills.
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The title is Or you just cannot stand certain people?
not things you cannot handle
you can change it on your first post!
Izzy
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Maybe you did not read completely. It is not about hating anybody at all. Or maybe you did not understand it. It is about running away when somebody scares you and triggers you badly.
The sentece, came from another person and was directed to another person. I just used it metaphoricaly.
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well. I better go to sleep. It is very sad everything that is going on. I pray the Lord to take care of my son. I went to salsa class today. But I paied for salsa class fro my son too so we have something to share. He went to the class and he did wonderfully. All tge laides want to dance with him and the instructor mentioned that she has a daughter that she wished met my son. LOL
I guess I most be doing something right. At least, I welcome my son into this world. And I will never stop telling him how much a blessing he has been in my life. And I tell him he is welcome and he was welcome in my life. I will never want he to feel what I felt with my mother NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!! I want him to know that I would give a kildey for him and he can love other people too,and that he can be happy. I always had his friends on my house, never idolated him.
I want him to feel welcome into this world.
God knows that even that I scrwed up many times, I would do any thing for him and do not prevent him from loving other people.
In the name of God I praym and I pray for my son to feel welcome into this world.
Good night.
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You are doing fine, Lupita!
And those salsa classes are great fun. Love it!
Hermes
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Izzy-Lup started this thread because I asked Lighter why she thought it was common sense that she leave. Then I asked her a few questions and the last one was Or is it that you just cannot stand certain people? I knew she had had some run ins with some. There were some coincidences that happened regarding the timing of her leaving and I was interested in the reasons why she left-she have me no reasons so I am still wondering. I hope her reasoning was that she was spending too much time here.
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))))))))))))))))))))) OC ((((((((((((((((((((((((((
It was just a misunderstanding. We were talking about running away all the time, remember?
I run away everytime i feel scared, instead of dominating the fears and deal with the people. I have never been able to comfront my abuser. Never. When ever I feel abused I run away.
Thank you OC. You are wonderful.
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Thank you, Shunned, I appreciate your ideas.
No doubt I have to work a lot.
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Dear Lupita - thank you for addressing this issue:
Lupita wrote:
run away everytime i feel scared, instead of dominating the fears and deal with the people. I have never been able to comfront my abuser. Never. When ever I feel abused I run away.
I run away too. I retreat from difficult conversations and situations. This has made me a bad friend, or at least, a severely limited friend and I have so, so much shame about that.
In addition to actually retreating, I also often experience freezing and being unable to act. It reminds me of when a horse is said to 'refuse a jump.'
In the past I have said to myself that I 'refused to jump' because I am not good enough or smart enough or an unworthy person in some way or another, but now I come to realize that none of this is true. I refuse the jump because of great fear and it doesn't mean any of the rest of it. All those things I told myself, and still tell myself, are scary stories and sad horrible fairy tales - lies.
At least I can say that since setting out to learn about N-ism and the roots of my anxiety and perfectionism and tremendous fear of failure - I have come to understand more about my puzzling and distressing personal limitations and challenges. So that must be progress of a kind, right?
I think you are expressing the highest motives and standards in the way your are mothering your son Lupita. Ever since becoming a parent this past year all of these thoughts are on my mind. How can I spare passing him my weaknesses, and support his ability to connect with other people? How will I be able to be supportive if he brings home girlfriends I can't respect. He's not even 1 year old yet and already there is so much pressure!
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I know Iphi, it is difficult. Beacuse since you leave, I leave, I never stay to pick the crops of my work. I have done it so many times. I lost an important scholarship in research because I could nor deal with my suoervisor, I lost the oportunity to work in a university because I could not dea with the person that was training me, I turned to piano, then back to medicine, then back to paino, then come to USA, then teaching, I left a very nice froup of piano students in my country, the house that I built, my mother paid me a misery for it, I have been leaving and running away, never enough to be able to have old friends, to have savings, 50 yo and no properties, no savings, nothing, and even in here, I am always tempted to leave the board every time somebody triggers me.
I have to stop.
Today my sixth period was bad, not as bad as last week, but not good, but I felt bad only for two hours, I feel well now and I am going to dance class tonight. So, I guess I am improving.
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Dear (((( Lupita ))))
My heart truly reaches out to you.
Sincerely,
Love, Leah
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Over the years it is as if God has put me in situations where I have had to grow or stay the way I was-screwed up beyond belief! My first career job I worked as a manager of a busy restaurant. I partied too hard and my GM was an ass. He would yell and scream and throw things and cuss. I was young and fragile and he totally psyched me out. When I left that job to go back to college I vowed that no one would EVER treat me that way again. No one but my mom has. I learned a clear mind helps!
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Then I graduated from college and went and sold cars. Stupid, I know. Why did I do it? The ad said, "women encouraged to apply." So I went. I was the only woman and had to learn to REALLY stick up for myself. I marched right up to the owner of the place and looked him right in the eyes and told him what I thought. I had customers flip me off. No one really likes car salesmen. I learned to take rejection-bold faced rejection-and not fall apart. Another learning lesson.
I learned to say NO to telemarketers. I learned to say no to a lot of things/ I even learned to say no to my mom. Boy, did that take a very long time. Trying to get yourself out of a web is a horrible business - poor flies - maybe that is why they just give up and let the spider eat them!! But I was able to untangle myself but it took a good five to six years and it was a painful process.
And speaking of running. My ex is a runner. This man just does not make good choices. He screws EVERYTHING up and then runs. This is his pattern. I have found that if you do not allow yourself to always default to poor choices, then you really do not have to run.
So what does that mean for you, Lup? Well it means that when you start a job, you assert yourself without being bossy. You establish that you will not take sh*t from the git go. You fake confidence until you have it. You smile. You do not let them see that they have gotten to you. You fake it until you make it.
So if you leave this job and get another one........assert yourself. Pretend you have it ALL together and act like you do. No one will walk on you. You will not get yourself into a situation that you cannot handle and need to run.
Anyway....I am rambling. I don't often get use of a computer so I have to limit my tirades to 500 characters. Now I can tell you all how I feel!!
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I have been leaving and running away, never enough to be able to have old friends, to have savings, 50 yo and no properties, no savings, nothing, and even in here, I am always tempted to leave the board every time somebody triggers me.
I have to stop.
'fight or flight' is our primeval response Lupita, it's not you, it's your response to being traumatised.
Many of the homeless people I have worked with they had been so traumatised they could NOT live in a home, they quickly returned to what seemed like an unstable or dangerous life but to them it felt safer than to try and construct and rely on things and people when they had been badly hurt in the past.
The REBT stuff on http://www.rational.org.nz/public/12principles.htm really helped me with this.
I have been the same but finally settling down to building a life doing what I want to with it and growing my strength and successes.
Since I fully embraced Christianity- dropped the religion and took up the basic teachings that meant for me- it's been easier, I visualise the strength I don't have coming from G_d and the idea of loving everyone, regardless who they are what they do etc- recognising their behaviour as their frailties and humanity helps me depersonalise it and stop responding.
My earliest memory is almost pre-memory and I felt like I was being held by a fuzzy white bright light...I wonder sometimes if that was G_d, and I felt so safe and loved. I can still feel the feeling and although I really wasn't loved by anyone until I was much older I think it prevented my childhood being so damaging. I remember looking at the clouds reflected into a puddle after rain and thinking 'I want to go home', I was about five. And getting this huge sense of reassurance that I am home inside myself.
Trauma takes time and self-nurturing to overcome I believe.
I learned a clear mind helps!
agree O/c after trauma it is easy for every incident of shouting or unreasonable behaviour to send us into a tailspin of emotion. I practice 'stop' and bring things to a complete standstill if possible now, it's surprising how many abusive people catch on too once you shine the light of day on what is happening in the situation and they can't take advantage of your panic or lack of clarity!
You fake it until you make it.
absolutely! It starts with believing in yourself- 'I'm not perfect but I'm okay'.
I vowed that no one would EVER treat me that way again. No one but my mom has
I dropped my mother from my life but then always had a substitute in my life until now.
I still miss her though, strangely.
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Write said:
"You fake it until you make it.
absolutely! It starts with believing in yourself- 'I'm not perfect but I'm okay'."
That is such a truth, Write.
Best wishes
Hermes
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write
Your above post was very soothing and helpful to read. I especially appreciate your point that flight or fight is a fundamental, natural response. That is huge for me to consider, because I routinely lambaste myself for flight and for fight - either choice. lol! And yet either choice is - hey - only human.
write wrote:
My earliest memory is almost pre-memory and I felt like I was being held by a fuzzy white bright light...I wonder sometimes if that was G_d, and I felt so safe and loved. I can still feel the feeling and although I really wasn't loved by anyone until I was much older I think it prevented my childhood being so damaging. I remember looking at the clouds reflected into a puddle after rain and thinking 'I want to go home', I was about five. And getting this huge sense of reassurance that I am home inside myself.
Trauma takes time and self-nurturing to overcome I believe.
I have a similar first memory! Usually I don't share it, but inwardly I have relied on it often and believe the same as you - that it prevented my childhood from being as damaging as it would have been otherwise. Also, because of that memory - I do know the feeling of being completely loved. It was my own lack of wisdom that I did not 'visit' that feeling as much as I could have - still don't. Really I should live in that feeling. I didn't have a sense of being home inside myself, but I have very often felt that death is something to look forward to wholeheartedly, strange as it may seem to us all here on Earth. I definitely think Earth is the hard part and is for learning. But that's just my beliefs.
write wrote more:
agree O/c after trauma it is easy for every incident of shouting or unreasonable behaviour to send us into a tailspin of emotion. I practice 'stop' and bring things to a complete standstill if possible now, it's surprising how many abusive people catch on too once you shine the light of day on what is happening in the situation and they can't take advantage of your panic or lack of clarity!
How do you practice 'stop?' I would like to know more.
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How are you managing, Lupita? Still holding your own ground?
Doing okay here, although I am feeling like it should be Friday, but alas... lol...
still standing, though. At times I do think that some folks just seem to be born to test one's patience.
My own "Miss Gotcha" at work is still up to her silly games... funny thing is, she is the one making the glaring errors - and finding that no one (least of all me!!) is rubbing her nose in her mistakes. I'm hoping she'll learn by example... but not holding my breath in anticipation of any dramatic changes.
Not running!
Carolyn
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Hi OC, hi CH, I am very tired. Too many hours working. Piano job, piano lessons, full time high school, too much. Today my day started at 4:30 AM, had to be at school and 6:30 for a praying session.
Just got home, very tired.
I guess that Hermes answered to write and write answere to OC so I dont think I have anything to add.
Dont have any energy.
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((((((((((Lupita)))))))))) understood. A couple cups of coffee didn't do much to invigorate me, but has kept me in an upright position thus far. I hope you'll have a relaxing evening and a wonderful, restful sleep tonight.
Carolyn
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Thank you CH, do not give power to that lady at work. (Look who is talking) I know, but I can tell you, I cannot so it, easy to teel you.
According to CB123, the one that wins the power game is the one who does not play it.
I dont play it, I run away and let them win. For example I should invite my son's GF so I can make friends with her, but guess what. it is scaring, and dont have the energy. GFM can do it because she does not work. I cant. i work too much.
Well, good night and God bless you all.
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Agreed, Lupita... not to give away the power. Fortunately, I have other people who witness these games (many of whom she treats in just exactly the same way) and one of these especially will not hesitate to tell her, "you are NOT my boss."
I do not have the nerve or the tongue of this brazen woman... lol... but I am getting pretty good at using a few stock phrases in response, as I walk away. One is: " I see "; another is " I don't know about that "; and my personal favorite is:
"It'll be alright" (accompanied by a sweet smile). lol
Nite nite, dear Lupita. God bless and keep you, too.
Carolyn
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Thank you CH, do not give power to that lady at work. (Look who is talking) I know, but I can tell you, I cannot so it, easy to teel you.
According to CB123, the one that wins the power game is the one who does not play it.
I dont play it, I run away and let them win. For example I should invite my son's GF so I can make friends with her, but guess what. it is scaring, and dont have the energy. GFM can do it because she does not work. I cant. i work too much.
Well, good night and God bless you all.
Goodnight Lupita
God Bless you too.
Love, Leah