Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: elculbr on February 03, 2008, 08:22:31 PM
-
Hello,
I'm a nineteen year old college student. I suspect my Father is a narcissist or sociopath. I was abused by him physically and emotionally my whole life until I went NC with my family less than a year ago. I didn't realize the full extent of my anger until going away to college. This freedom caused my repressed hatred of men to surface. I am very much repulsed and disgusted by them and if I could remove them from earth I would.
Well, I just want to know if there is anyone who hates men as completely as I do?
-
exculbr,
Hi. Good to see you back on the board. No, I don't hate men. But had my experience been like yours I might have. Bring us up to date. Are you still working at the library?
Affectionately,
tt
-
Hi, El,
I'm so glad you are able to speak up about your feelings here. Do you have anyone with whom you can talk face to face about this?
I don't hate men, but I've felt some extreme revulsion and disgust toward certain personalities (especially controlling women)
because of family history.
Welcome... and I hope you'll share more about how you're feeling and find some relief in the encouragement and support which are available here.
Carolyn
-
"I went NC with my family less than a year ago."
I'm impressed that you would have that emotional wherewithall to go NC at such a young age. I hope you have a suport system to replace the family that was not and is not there for you.
Does your haterd of men bother you or are you comfortable with it? Does it get in your way with school or work or social life?
-
Hi El,
My Dad was gentle and kind, but I still went through a phase of hating a lot of male behavior, especially when I was younger and more exposed to the worst of it. LOL, theres so much to hate! Rape, stalking, harassment, intimidation, violence, male pack behavior, lies to get you into bed, too much value placed on appearances, too little value placed on appearances, disrespect, disregard, cheating, glass ceilings , and thats just in my town, and in my life!
I don't hate men in a personal way, and I'm not as wound up about things as much as I used to be, because mostly I am not exposed to so much bad behavior. Though I've got to admit, i was miffed the other day when I was walking in the park, and a guy was peeing. When he saw me, he turned around and pee'd in my direction, to expose himself at me! Thats the second time its happened in that park in the last 6 months, and I live in the `good part' of a good town! Grrr..
El, Have you actually had any bad experiences with guys apart from your Dad, or do you think that your hate is unfounded? I was just wondering.
X bella
-
Hi El...
Welcome back, dear.
I hated men for a while in my 20s when my first consciousness-raising was sinking in. It was so painful when the realities of sexism became more clear to me, and every assertive male in my path was in danger of being loathed.
Not for a long time, though. I was very lucky to have a kind, gentle father, who offset the harm of a bully brother.
Tell us more?
love
Hops
-
Dear El,
I think that it is "natural" for you to "hate" men ,based on your conditioning. It would be an outgrowth of your relationship with your monster father.
*I* hear you wanting to change it ,and that is why you asked the question(IMO). You probably will want a connection with a man,at some point, b/c it is built in to us, as humans.
So, you find yourself in a huge dilemma.
You are doing the first right thing, asking a question and seeking out advice.
For me, it is harder to trust woman than men b/c my M was more of a 'monster" than my F.
I think that how we are conditioned is the key to our fears,in this area.
I know that other's here will be able to add more .
Keep Sharing, El. You have touched everyone's hearts ,from the first day you posted. Love Ami
-
why hate anyone- hate is a learned response which will damage you badly. We can't live fully whilst hating.
19 is very young to have written off so many people! I am raising a son- would you hate him?
Glad you are here, many people here have had abuse and pain and kept or brought love alive inside of them- the best tool for recovery we have all found is a good counsellor. Therapy can deal with your pain and anger.
Love
~Write
-
Hi elculbr,
Your feelings of hatred are OK. Your anger is OK. I'm sorry that you have had to endure so much pain, my heart feels tender compassion for you. Hugs.
Perhaps it is easy for you to say that you hate men in general than it is for you to get angry at your father and direct the hatred and anger that you feel towards him AT him and not all men? It might because directing it at him threatens your sense of survival and security?
Not all men are bad and hurtful. That is black and white or all or none thinking (I'm sure you know that) --it is OK too but to begin to see that other men in this world are OK and they can be quite good, loving and safe too is a better view of reality, you have to reach for that truth, God will show good and caring men, if you ask.
I hated men too for a while. I was raped at the age of 11 while walking to school at gunpoint. It took me many years to get in tough with my anger and rage. When I did, I just stayed with the old hurt and anger, not acting on it or acting out, it slowly has worked its way out of me for that situation.
Do you have a therapist? Someone you can talk about the memories of your abuse and trauma with. I hope you stay here an continue to seek compassion and sympathy from us as well as just ear to vent to. Also, I hope that you do seek a counselor with training, if you have not already, it will help.
I hope this helps.
Lise
-
why hate anyone- hate is a learned response which will damage you badly. We can't live fully whilst hating.
Write this is very true but for those of us who were brought up in homes without the freedom to express our emotions we had our anger and hatred frozen and made to be ashamed of. Children naturally feel and express hate at abuse, it is normal. But we don't make them wrong for it. As we grow, if we are raised in loving homes, we will learn that hatred is a useless emotion and we will naturally outgrow it or make better choices as we begin to see that the world is not black and white.
But to be abused by the very person who was supposed to love us, well sure at some point in the healing process we are going to find hatred in our hearts.
Thank goodness that elculbr is getting in touch with this now and not later in life after years of repressing it. She is doing well for her age and what she has been through.
Hatred is understandable in abuse cases and something to be worked through and resolved -- not condemned.
Lise
-
Hello Write:
I second your post, and what you say. I don't think hate is a productive emtoion, and it has a bad habit of turning on one.
I am very much against the polarisation of men and women, as in "men are all bad", and "women are all good".
You could get bitten by one dog, for example, get a bad fright, but that does not mean all dogs are bad, quite the contrary.
All the best
Hermes
-
I'm impressed that you would have that emotional wherewithall to go NC at such a young age. I hope you have a suport system to replace the family that was not and is not there for you.
-gaining strength
You wouldn't be impressed if you knew what they were like. I stopped therapy. It was boring and a waste of time: the stupid people at student health kept telling me i have autism. I got off the anti-depressant on my own b.c. it gave me headaches. After 5 months the off-campus therapist still hadn't provided me wiith any insights. But I should have known better than to trust the establishment.
Someone asked if I direct hate at my F. Yes and No. Yes in that I confronted him verbally/physicaly 2 years ago in big family fights. No, in that I know it will make no difference. Hating him does not threaten my survival and security. It did when I was still living in that house. The hate is more of a rage that rises up were I'm around them (males). And I wish my F would just drop dead so the planet can be rid of him. But no. The good die young and the evil live a long, long, time. This has been my experience.
So my second sister will be graduating high school in May/June and will be gone to college. But as I know, the problems don't stop there. The youngest sister is starting to feel the burn. She has 5 more years in that house. And she says she is starting to hate it there and she just wishes pain and suffering on everyone. You see, I don't believe in god and i don't fear hell. Because this is hell. Hell is being stuck,powerless in a prison and being tortured with no means of escape and you just have to deal with it and you see no end out of it b.c. there is no end. That is hell and that is earth.
And the F is still watching me. He's been checking my finances at the financial office with my SS#. And I may just have to drop out for the university is being noncooperative regarding certain procedures*. And that's just typical.
*The University has a policy that one is financially bound to one's parents until one is 26, meaning that one must count their assessts as your own, even if one accepts no money from them. Meaning i need their tax documents for the 2007 session or else I can't apply for finanical aid and I have to drop out. And the "Commitee" has yet to meet regarding my letter. And it will take a month for a response. I can't transfer to a state school either b.c. federally the age is 23. So I would have to drop out until I turn 23 just to finish my BA at a state school-but that is back in FLorida and I may no longer be in the system there. typical.
I hate that everyone trust parents just b.c. they donated an egg and a sperm.
Hermes-I'm so sick of ppl saying: hate is not a productive emotion" Yes it is. it keeps you alive. Otherwise it would not have been developed along with the other emotions...from an evoluntionary perspective.
it's amazing how one person has the power to exert so much control and ruin so many lives. I knew something was up when M said F would "leave me alone" so he has been watching me these last few months. And this situation still gives him power b.c. he can decide not to bother me. So the Lord has granted its subject the "freedom" it so desperately craves. I'm seriously considering droping out at the end of this semester and joining the Peace Corps-and go to Senegal that why at least I can learn French.
-
Dear Elcul:
Well, a lot of traits, undesirable and more desirable and useful, were developed by evolutionary processes. And hate is corrosive and can eat into your heart and soul. However, you are of course, free to hate, if that is what you want to do. No one can stop you.
I am so sorry you have had such a terrible family life, that has caused you to feel like this.
You mention joining the Peace Corps to go to Senegal. You might well learn French there, although I imagine the idea of joining the Peace Corps is for other more altruistic reasons. Yes? It could indeed be a good idea, and one way or another would possibly change your life forever.
Take care
All the best
Hermes
-
it's amazing how one person has the power to exert so much control and ruin so many lives.
elculbr,
Thanks for sharing all of this. It may seem that one person has the power to ruin your life but they only have as much power as you give them or allow them.
I wanted to add that you are now free, or safe, you no longer have to give your father power over your life to ruin it. It is your life and you can take that power back, again, in other words, you were powerless when you were young to stop the abuse but now you can stop it, you can take your life back.
There is a distinction between hateful feelings and our hateful actions. When we can fully express, with non-hurtful words and language, our negative feelings towards someone who has hurt us, it helps release...it helps to release so that we can get to what is really underneath the hatred and feel the hurt. Hatred is a defense against our pain and against the world that has hurt us -- I see you reaching to be healthy -- don't stop reaching and seeking healing.
My point to you elculbr is to not act out your hatred by choosing to buy the lie that all men are hurtful and uncapable of genuine love but rather to help you see that your anger and hurt are the wound that need to be healed and hatred is just a symptom of that wound.
May God bless you and watch over you with comfort and great care.
Hugs,
Lise
-
I stopped therapy. It was boring and a waste of time: the stupid people at student health kept telling me i have autism.
you're very young elculbr. My experience was similar, I would not accept my diagnosis of bipolar one ( manic depression ) for many years because it just wasn't the whole picture nor did I find the advice I was getting on how to deal with it either useful or accurate!
It's so much easier now twenty some years later to assert myself and find the solutions which will work for me. I know now that things are not as polarised as they seem: good/ bad, correct/ wrong, useful/worthless....but for a long time I couldn't see things don't have to be all or nothing. I 'threw the baby out with the bathwater' so to speak!
Hatred is understandable in abuse cases and something to be worked through and resolved -- not condemned.
the title of the thread is 'hate men'. To hate all men because of what one man did or does is more abuse. And I don't accept it's a good way to work through abuse either- hatred causes physical illness, stress, poor decision-making and problem-solving & is a form of attachment. Many people get 'stuck' in recovery throguh unwillingness to let go of hatred.
Anger is understandable in abuse cases and something to be worked through and resolved, hatred is a byproduct which hopefully the loves, support, encouragement and assistance of others will help to avoid.
To hate is to be unhealthy, there are better and constructive ways to overcome abuse than to develop a blanket hatred for any group.
If hate helps someone detach from an abuser then it has served a purpose but all people in recovery from abuse also know that it keeps that abuser prominent in your life and psyche. Letting go and moving on are the ultimate goals because you have a wonderful personhood to express and grow into elculbr and you don't need to do anything which will stand inthe way of your peace and hapiness.
Don't give up on the idea of therapy even if it takes time to find the model or person works for you.
I'm so sick of ppl saying: hate is not a productive emotion" Yes it is. it keeps you alive. Otherwise it would not have been developed along with the other emotions...from an evoluntionary perspective.
you are traumatised and our reactions become what have been termed 'reptile-brained' or instinctive at a lower order level. It is very obvious in our world today that hatred simply keeps people stuck dealing with situations in ancestral patterns. War, hunger, inaction against injustice, selfishness result. Survival is more than scrapping over land or possessions, just as feeling alive is more than having surges of powerful emotions.
Bringing your anger here is a healthy thing; being angry in a safe way is useful. Hating men will bring you more pain into your life, because there are good men and women who will help you through all this and love you if you let them.
Love
~Write
-
Dear Write:
I just loved that post!
And I was thinking here: how wonderful to be only nineteen! All life before you.
Best wishes
Hermes
-
life is not good. it has never been good. there are good moments but they have the lifespan of a monarch butterfly.
I almost killed myself a couple days ago. just got so tired of life. i hate life and it hasn't even started.and i can hardly wait for what comes next. what fun. and i think my F is a pyschopath not a narcissist..so i will be finding a different board. and i've been cursed with his sickness and i've got something wrong with me. but no one will tell me what it is. but i've been told i have autism so i guess that's what's wrong with me. the F always attacked me for what i inheritantly am, maybe the autism was the reason. but then he said that the devil lives in me the last time we talked and that's why i'm defective. so what is it?
and hermes is a man. and that's why i'm offending you. then get out of this thread.
-
*The University has a policy that one is financially bound to one's parents until one is 26, meaning that one must count their assessts as your own, even if one accepts no money from them. Meaning i need their tax documents for the 2007 session or else I can't apply for finanical aid and I have to drop out. And the "Commitee" has yet to meet regarding my letter. And it will take a month for a response. I can't transfer to a state school either b.c. federally the age is 23. So I would have to drop out until I turn 23 just to finish my BA at a state school-but that is back in FLorida and I may no longer be in the system there. typical.
El,
I can relate to that sense of powerlessness, as I couldn't receive gov. assistance to attend university because my parents were too wealthy. But they didn't give me enough money to feed myself. I was very angry at them, because they bought two of my sisters apartments, and let my brothers live at home until wel into their thirties. The other sister got married to a rich guy.
I tried to get by, but I was studying veterinary science and the classes anda fter-hours study routine was so time consuming. I lived in what tey called a `squat' , which was dirty, chaotic place. It was fun, but I didn't have much time for fun!
A lot of the time we got food left over from supermarkets or from donations.
I really, realy, wanted to be vet; it was my childhood dream and I worked so hard to get accepted into the school. But I failed a major subject in first year (anatomy), and they made you repeat the whole year back then if you failed anytign at all. Half way through repeating that year, I just couldn't stomach it any more. Life was to hard for me. And I was angry, angry , angry about my aprents abandoning me instead of helping me. In hindsight, i think my mother wished for me to fail. She told me, later in life, taht her mother did the same thing to her when she was accepted into university. That made me feel even agrier- so she did that to me, knowing it would sabotage me? Great, thanks Mum.
I was pretty mad, el, but i've got to tell you, the anger passes and you stop caring. I think it happened for me sometime later in youth, after I had been independent for a few years, and happy with my life.
I don't really harbour resentment for what my mother was, adn the bad decisions she made. But I am mad sometimes because she hasn't changed much, and she is always trying to regain that `power' she once had over my life. To me that `power' amounts to the power to abuse and control me, and it won't happen again.
El, I think youa re the right track, making plans to escape your father's control. I couldn't think of anytign better.
PS. I am so envious of your age too! 19 was hard, depressing year for me, but I'd stll love to be that young!
X bella
-
El,
Honestly theres no need to be rude; it will just turn people away because you are hurting them. Thats why we are members of this board- because we are hurting, and have been very, very hurt. Many of us were abused by narcissists worse than your Dad, and for longer.
Are you an Emo, El?
X Bella
-
Dear El,
My son committed suicide at age 21. Your thoughts are not "right" ,at present. You are believing your sick father's lies about you, El.
ANYONE would hate men,if they had your father, El. It is Ok for you to feel HOWEVER you feel ,right,now El.
It is OK to be angry and hate everyone,including yourself.
These are only "ideas", El. Anyone who had your background would be struggling, just as you are. You need to just hang on to your "sanity" right now.Keep writing, El. Keep reaching out. You are not "bad". You have always been OK, El, even though you may not feel it right now.
Your parents were the "bad" ones,not you, El. You are OK. Love Ami
-
Hi El,
Please don't hurt yourself.
It is NOT "the devil".
Please reach out and don't toss out humanity.
It's yourself who needs you to be kind.
You're strong, smart, and you can survive.
Please choose to get help and get it again and refuse to stop getting help.
with love,
Hops
-
Hi El,
You sound like a smart person and I think this is a very good place for you to vent your anger. Safe, secure, supportive mostly. So go for it. Pour it out. You have plenty to be angry about.
As for autism. Good grief. You are very emotional for someone with autism. Where did you get this idea? Labels are pretty damaging if they are just thrown around by amateurs. Even if you have a disability which is pretty unlikely of the intensity of autism, you still are entitled to respect and love.
If your feelings get too big for you to handle, then talk to your doctor. If you had a broken leg you would get help for it. Medication sure has helped me through some bad patches.
One of the best supports I found during my year in hell was a twelve step program. I like the group support and met some genuine people there who talked about feelings. I highly recommend it.
Otherwise pour out your feelings here. Its free and you can write all you want. Someone will be listening. And caring.
All the best to you,
Sea storm
-
El,
Please keep spilling, venting, writing, posting.
Please don't stop if somebody doesn't get it. Keep going.
Somebody WILL get it, or get a piece of it.
Then somebody else will get another piece.
You will not be alone with all this rage and pain if you keep sharing it here.
Just keep typing.
Your voice matters and we will listen.
If you're feeling rage, type it. It's okay with us.
Please, sweetheart. Don't harm yourself.
with love and a long gentle hug,
Hops
-
Dear El:
I have to smile! You are in such a state that you don't know what you are saying. I agree everything the other posters say, and you will find a lot of encouraging and kind words here. You know, El, it IS possible to communicate with others, particular others who try to empathise with you, without being rude.
Take care of yourself, and all the best
Hermes
-
I must agree with Hops, El. Don't worry about rude or NOT rude when you are thinking of killing yourself. My son just did kill himself. I falied him. Be however you want to be, El. Be as rude as you want, El.
As Hops said, whenever anyone posts here, some people "get "it and some don't. Some people REALLY don't(lol)
It is the nature of people ,in a group,El.
YOU need to just keep talking.
Your F filled you with lies about yourself. I promise you, they are lies.
I promise. Ami
-
I falied him.
no Ami- you did not fail anyone.
You may feel you did or wish you had done something more but the truth is someone made an irreversible decision based on temporarily overwhelming emotions which is both their right and their responsibility.
All the love in the world cannot save someone when they cross that point, I truly believe that people need more education on suicide though- that it is irreversible, and that it is a form of assault on others. Many people would not do it if they had already internalised that- our values stay with us even in psychosis.
My love to you for going through this pain (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Be as rude as you want, El.
if you are rude and let all your emotions get the better of you then that will put an automatic barrier between yourself and others.
I am going through this now with the lady I asked everyone to pray for who is being sexually exploited. I know she is in agony, I want to be there for her, but each day when I receive profanity or insult in my email I wonder whether I am asking too much of myself and how to set a boundary when she goes too far. It's a fine line to help someone else between letting them connect and becoming enmeshed in their problems.
I think Hops and Ami you don't give good advice to say 'be rude', people will step away quicker than ever from someone who acts out because they are hurt and angry.
You could even get banned from the Board if you write personal insults to other members. There are always going to be boundaries around what you do.
It is perfectly okay to express your anger and frustration though- say what you like so long as it is not personally directed at another and if it is offending anyone they don't have to read do they.
My advice to anyone would be- treat others how you want to be treated, you can't go wrong with that approach.
THINGS WILL GET BETTER. Many people here have been where you're at and come out the other side.
Love
~Write
-
Hi El,
(Aside--hey Write: I didn't encourage being rude. That would backfire and leave El more isolated. I think you just mixed up my post and Ami's.)
El, I hope you will keep writing out your feelings, even including rage, about your father. So you have a safe place to go.
You mentioned feeling suicidal. You were here before during a period when you were feeling desperate. It's the desperation I'm concerned with. I would like you to know somebody cares.
I believe you will find loving strong friends here every time you come. Being 19...god it was rough. And I wasn't dealing with half what you are, El.
There are good times to offer criticism or debate a mindset...for you, I am thinking this isn't one of them. Don't worry about disagreements if they occur. We don't have to "approve", to love.
I promise you will find a lot of love here, just stay around.
xo
Hops
-
El --
You sound pretty OK to me, especially after what you have been through. Have you ever considered that suicide is a form of revenge? It is a way of saying "look what you made me do." Yes, life can hurt so much that we just want out too sometimes, the pain of hopelessness. In my twenties I tried to commit suicide 3 times. It was a mix of hopelessness and old anger. Now I am in my 30's and if you look a the Bigger Picture thread you will see, I am happy with my life and myself, despite my imperfections and humaness and old grief. I have not had a suicidal thought for a long time. There is just no way because life can never be as bad as the way it was when I was actually being abused.
Also, perhaps this is not what you want to hear but I did find God, it changed everything for me.
My heart hears you. It made me smile to see your feisty posts, good quality -- I like that.
Please keep pouring our your heart here...I and safe others will not abandon you or reject you and tell you that you are the problem...all that you feel and all that you think IS OK -- (((((EL))))))
Love you,
Lise
-
El,
Thinking of ((you)).
My heart hears you. It made me smile to see your feisty posts, good quality -- I like that.
Lise, couldn't agree more...........ditto
seasons
-
""You could even get banned from the Board if you write personal insults to other members. There are always going to be boundaries around what you do."" Write.
""My advice to anyone would be- treat others how you want to be treated, you can't go wrong with that approach". Write.
I agree entirely with you, Write.
All the best
Hermes